grads not practicing

July 14, 2007

Hi All-

This is an interesting topic for me, not so much for the success/failure

discussion aspect, but more as related to personal growth and interest. I am in

my 5th year of practice, and hold lightly the work that I do. I do not love it,

nor despise it, though at times I find it fascinating and captivating, other

times frustrating and disappointing. And I suppose this is all the " normal "

stuff of life.

What I find interesting lately, is that the more I " let go " of my " attachments "

to my practice, the more successful it is as a business. What this is looking

like, is the more I explore additional professional and personal possibilities,

the better my practice does and the more confident I am as a practitioner - and

happier, too. For instance, I have been writing and singing songs for the last

20 years, and now am exploring ways to get my music on CD and out into the

public. Also, in 1993, I applied to rabbinic school programs with an interest

in pastoral counseling - which, by the way, was the very reason I was denied

admission, but that's another whole can of worms... Lately, however, I have

come across some programs in spiritual direction, which is very nifty and

exciting, because my primary interest in TCM was to use it to heal spiritual

wounds anyway, and this is not something I was taught in school.

So anyway, as I become more " whole " by re-integrating more aspects of what I

love into my life, my practice grows and flourishes. It reminds me of something

my clinical counseling teacher once taught us about a healer having a

multi-dimensional and multi-faceted life, and being competent in all of them.

The more I shift my practice away from being the center of my life, the busier

it is, and the more balanced and happy I am. I no longer care whether or not I

am a practitioner of TCM for the rest of my life, and I am prepared to follow

the course of my life wherever it takes me. If I do decide to stop practicing

at some point, I will never have considered my choice to practice a mistake, nor

my leaving the profession an incident of failure. I'm just growing, changing,

and enjoying many different things.

My 4 cents.

heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: Hi All-I have a couple thoughts--one is

that I think that it is to be

expected that a career in an " alternative " health profession would be

less likely to have a high success rate than other professions. The

other thought is that I think we'd all be surprised to see how few

people succeed in any profession.

I received an MSW prior to going into Chinese medicine, and so I

sometimes felt down on myself for having " failed " at my first career

(particularly because I went deeply in debt for grad school at Boston

University--I enjoyed MSW work but knew it wasn't what I felt

passionate enough about to continue forever). Therefore I found

myself paying attention whenever statistics came out on this kind of

thing and I discovered that I was actually a huge success in my field

because the vast majority of people in most professions are not in

their field anymore after 5 years, and another large percent never

even have one job in their field. I was successfully employed for 5

years after I got my MSW, so that was comforting to me. But the point

is that the statistics show that it is a gamble to go into any field.

However, I think that most of the time the path that eventually is

settled on turns out to be related (as in my case---my MSW work has

everything to do with why I've been successful in my TCM clinic).

Just a few thoughts--

Laura

Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

wrote:

>

> Zev,

>

> So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I

thought this forum

> was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it

odd that

> many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality of

others (majority?)

> and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not practicing

for long after school).

> I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem

and also a discussion

> as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for

junk mail, I find a lot

> of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to

hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> : zrosenbe: Thu, 12 Jul 2007

20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete Thiessen

>

> Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was

interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months ago

with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from

practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of

control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.Z'ev

RosenbergOn Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would

agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes>

uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard >

many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that

impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we

should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking for

solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple of

different schools and find that it appears these > students do not>

seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business stand >

point and> I would question their ability to do well. Mike W. Bowser,

L Ac>> > Chinese Medicine:subincor > e: Thu,

12 Jul 2007 20:30:51 +0000Re: Re: Pete Thiessen>> Hi

all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase > most

of the threads anyway !! :DBut seriously, I am disappointed > that

Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for > him,

and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, > compassionate,

ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more > appropriate. Does

the software do that, or was it coded by someone > with a more

draconian bent?In any case, I understand how difficult > bitterness is

to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the > list. We're

supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, > banning could

create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? > What I saw was

a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very > very few trying to

listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned > ugly.In any case, I

am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of > you.Hugo----- Original

Message ----Alon Marcus > BillYou can always

choose to not read. To me > its like all the ranting about media. Just

choose what you readAlon > Marcus DOM{font-size:13px;font-family:arial, >

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>________ >

Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up >

foryour free account todayhttp://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http:// >

uk.docs./mail/winter07.html[Non-text portions of this >

message have been removed]>>

________> Missed the

show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN.>

http://liveearth.msn.com>> [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]>>> Chair, Department of Herbal

MedicinePacific College of Oriental MedicineSan Diego, Ca.

92122

July 16, 2007

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I enjoy hearing what the experience

of practicing this medicine is like for others. The biggest thing

that I struggle with is getting too caught up in the rollercoaster

ride of swinging between treated like a miracle worker one hour when I

get good results and being treated like a quack the next hour when a

patient comes in that I haven't been able to help (yet!). One thing

I've found that helped me with this is to collect a list of

testimonials from patients and give it out during their first visit.

It seems to put people in a frame of mind to stick around long enough

for me to help them if its taking time. When I was still new I used

to think that once I got busy I wouldn't struggle with this roller

coaster ride, but for some reason even though I've been busy for quite

awhile now I still can get caught up in it.

Thanks for sharing,

Laura

Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth

Damsky < wrote:

>

> Hi All-

>

> This is an interesting topic for me, not so much for the

success/failure discussion aspect, but more as related to personal

growth and interest. I am in my 5th year of practice, and hold

lightly the work that I do. I do not love it, nor despise it, though

at times I find it fascinating and captivating, other times

frustrating and disappointing. And I suppose this is all the " normal "

stuff of life.

>

> What I find interesting lately, is that the more I " let go " of my

" attachments " to my practice, the more successful it is as a business.

What this is looking like, is the more I explore additional

professional and personal possibilities, the better my practice does

and the more confident I am as a practitioner - and happier, too. For

instance, I have been writing and singing songs for the last 20 years,

and now am exploring ways to get my music on CD and out into the

public. Also, in 1993, I applied to rabbinic school programs with an

interest in pastoral counseling - which, by the way, was the very

reason I was denied admission, but that's another whole can of

worms... Lately, however, I have come across some programs in

spiritual direction, which is very nifty and exciting, because my

primary interest in TCM was to use it to heal spiritual wounds anyway,

and this is not something I was taught in school.

>

> So anyway, as I become more " whole " by re-integrating more aspects

of what I love into my life, my practice grows and flourishes. It

reminds me of something my clinical counseling teacher once taught us

about a healer having a multi-dimensional and multi-faceted life, and

being competent in all of them. The more I shift my practice away

from being the center of my life, the busier it is, and the more

balanced and happy I am. I no longer care whether or not I am a

practitioner of TCM for the rest of my life, and I am prepared to

follow the course of my life wherever it takes me. If I do decide to

stop practicing at some point, I will never have considered my choice

to practice a mistake, nor my leaving the profession an incident of

failure. I'm just growing, changing, and enjoying many different things.

>

> My 4 cents.

>

> heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: Hi All-I have a couple

thoughts--one is that I think that it is to be

> expected that a career in an " alternative " health profession would be

> less likely to have a high success rate than other professions. The

> other thought is that I think we'd all be surprised to see how few

> people succeed in any profession.

>

> I received an MSW prior to going into Chinese medicine, and so I

> sometimes felt down on myself for having " failed " at my first career

> (particularly because I went deeply in debt for grad school at Boston

> University--I enjoyed MSW work but knew it wasn't what I felt

> passionate enough about to continue forever). Therefore I found

> myself paying attention whenever statistics came out on this kind of

> thing and I discovered that I was actually a huge success in my field

> because the vast majority of people in most professions are not in

> their field anymore after 5 years, and another large percent never

> even have one job in their field. I was successfully employed for 5

> years after I got my MSW, so that was comforting to me. But the point

> is that the statistics show that it is a gamble to go into any field.

> However, I think that most of the time the path that eventually is

> settled on turns out to be related (as in my case---my MSW work has

> everything to do with why I've been successful in my TCM clinic).

>

> Just a few thoughts--

>

> Laura

>

> Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

> wrote:

> >

> > Zev,

> >

> > So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I

> thought this forum

> > was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it

> odd that

> > many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality of

> others (majority?)

> > and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not practicing

> for long after school).

> > I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem

> and also a discussion

> > as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for

> junk mail, I find a lot

> > of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to

> hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > @: zrosenbe@: Thu, 12 Jul 2007

> 20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete Thiessen

> >

> > Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was

> interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months ago

> with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from

> practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of

> control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.Z'ev

> RosenbergOn Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would

> agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes>

> uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard >

> many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that

> impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we

> should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking for

> solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple of

> different schools and find that it appears these > students do not>

> seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business stand >

> point and> I would question their ability to do well. Mike W. Bowser,

> L Ac>> > Chinese Medicine@:subincor@ > e: Thu,

> 12 Jul 2007 20:30:51 +0000Re: Re: Pete Thiessen>> Hi

> all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase > most

> of the threads anyway !! :DBut seriously, I am disappointed > that

> Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for > him,

> and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, > compassionate,

> ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more > appropriate. Does

> the software do that, or was it coded by someone > with a more

> draconian bent?In any case, I understand how difficult > bitterness is

> to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the > list. We're

> supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, > banning could

> create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? > What I saw was

> a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very > very few trying to

> listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned > ugly.In any case, I

> am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of > you.Hugo----- Original

> Message ----Alon Marcus > BillYou can always

> choose to not read. To me > its like all the ranting about media. Just

> choose what you readAlon > Marcus

DOM{font-size:13px;font-family:arial, > helvetica, clean,

> sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font- >

> size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font: >

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> >________ >

> Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up >

> foryour free account todayhttp://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http:// >

> uk.docs./mail/winter07.html[Non-text portions of this >

> message have been removed]>>

> ________> Missed the

> show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN.>

> http://liveearth.msn.com>> [Non-text portions of this message have

> been removed]>>> Chair, Department of Herbal

> MedicinePacific College of Oriental MedicineSan Diego, Ca.

> 92122

July 16, 2007

Hi Laura,

I too struggle with this dichotomy sometimes. I have printed out a sheet for my

patients with information about how to tell if they're getting better, because I

have learned from experience that most people are not used to paying attention

to their bodies except when they're uncomfortable - and when their symptoms get

better, then tend to stop " listening " and think the problem is gone. I give

them the following 3 parameters for evaluating success:

1) symptoms occur less frequently (or are gone)

2) symptoms are less intense (or are gone)

3) when symptoms occur, they last for a shorter period of time

I also tell them that everyone heals at their own rate, and frequently something

other than their chief complaint will get better before the issue they are

seeing me for - because the body will heal in areas that are easiest to heal

first, in my experience, and these other healings often pave the way for healing

of their main concern.

I include information about possible " adverse " side effects of treatment,

including sleepiness/fatigue and hunger as communication to them as to what

their body needs for healing. I tell them that if they feel energized, this is

a wonderful mobilization of energy for their healing, but not the time to join

the Olympics or clean out the attic. I also let them know that sometimes

treatment can prompt emotional release, that this is a good thing and not to be

concerned about it.

Lastly, I tell them that some people will feel a little worse before they feel

better, though this is a very small minority of people, and if this occurs, not

to be concerned. They like knowing that as an acupuncturist, I rely heavily on

their paying attention to their symptoms so they can tell me what's better,

rather than an MD who does tests to tell them whether or not their treatment is

working.

Because so much of what we do is mysterious to people who are new to

acupuncture, I give my patients lots of information about what to expect. This

helps them " buy in " , feel more confident and also more empowered as a partner in

their treatment plan.

Anyone on this list can feel free to borrow and use these ideas. If you have

any additions, I'd love to hear them.

heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I

enjoy hearing what the experience

of practicing this medicine is like for others. The biggest thing

that I struggle with is getting too caught up in the rollercoaster

ride of swinging between treated like a miracle worker one hour when I

get good results and being treated like a quack the next hour when a

patient comes in that I haven't been able to help (yet!). One thing

I've found that helped me with this is to collect a list of

testimonials from patients and give it out during their first visit.

It seems to put people in a frame of mind to stick around long enough

for me to help them if its taking time. When I was still new I used

to think that once I got busy I wouldn't struggle with this roller

coaster ride, but for some reason even though I've been busy for quite

awhile now I still can get caught up in it.

Thanks for sharing,

Laura

Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth

Damsky wrote: