Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I have numerous complaints off the list recently about Pete Thiessen's behaviour (on and off the list), and so I want to let the list membership know that I have cancelled his access to our group. He has been on and off moderated status several times, and has been given several opportunities to improve his behaviour. Mark Milotay, TCM List Owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I thank you. Lee Tritt _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mmilotay Monday, July 09, 2007 7:21 PM Chinese Medicine Pete Thiessen I have numerous complaints off the list recently about Pete Thiessen's behaviour (on and off the list), and so I want to let the list membership know that I have cancelled his access to our group. He has been on and off moderated status several times, and has been given several opportunities to improve his behaviour. Mark Milotay, TCM List Owner Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/890 - Release 7/7/2007 3:26 PM Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/890 - Release 7/7/2007 3:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thank You. Maria Kuriloff _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mmilotay Monday, July 09, 2007 6:21 PM Chinese Medicine Pete Thiessen I have numerous complaints off the list recently about Pete Thiessen's behaviour (on and off the list), and so I want to let the list membership know that I have cancelled his access to our group. He has been on and off moderated status several times, and has been given several opportunities to improve his behaviour. Mark Milotay, TCM List Owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Was Pete banned for being a right-wing bible thumping NRA member? What was his crime agianst the group? I found him somewhat obnoxius, but not banworthy, but perhaps I missed his worst offences? ______________________________\ ____ Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv./collections/222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I can't speak for the list administrators, but from my perspective, Pete completely hijacked the list with his endless rants, bitterness, hostility, and insults. I was on the verge of unsubscribing, because I felt that it was becoming a waste of my time. I to this and similar lists in order to tap into the vast knowledge of the other members and occasionally contribute something myself. If Pete was actually interested in discussing issues, I doubt if he would have been banned from the list. Since he has left the list, the discussions have returned to Chinese medicine. Personally, I would move to a new career if I felt the way that he does about practicing Chinese medicine. - Bill Chinese Medicine , JB <jasonwcom wrote: > > Was Pete banned for being a right-wing bible thumping > NRA member? What was his crime agianst the group? I > found him somewhat obnoxius, but not banworthy, but > perhaps I missed his worst offences? > > > > ___________________ _______________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv./collections/222 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Bill You can always choose to not read. To me its like all the ranting about media. Just choose what you read - Bill Schoenbart Chinese Medicine Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:24 AM Re: Pete Thiessen I can't speak for the list administrators, but from my perspective, Pete completely hijacked the list with his endless rants, bitterness, hostility, and insults. I was on the verge of unsubscribing, because I felt that it was becoming a waste of my time. I to this and similar lists in order to tap into the vast knowledge of the other members and occasionally contribute something myself. If Pete was actually interested in discussing issues, I doubt if he would have been banned from the list. Since he has left the list, the discussions have returned to Chinese medicine. Personally, I would move to a new career if I felt the way that he does about practicing Chinese medicine. - Bill Chinese Medicine , JB <jasonwcom wrote: > > Was Pete banned for being a right-wing bible thumping > NRA member? What was his crime agianst the group? I > found him somewhat obnoxius, but not banworthy, but > perhaps I missed his worst offences? > > > > ________ _______________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv./collections/222 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase most of the threads anyway !! But seriously, I am disappointed that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more appropriate. Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone with a more draconian bent? In any case, I understand how difficult bitterness is to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, banning could create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very very few trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned ugly. In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of you. Hugo Alon Marcus <alonmarcus Bill You can always choose to not read. To me its like all the ranting about media. Just choose what you read <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq {margin:4;} --> _________ Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http://uk.docs./mail/winter07.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 It's always a tough call, Hugo. I agree with you and Alon on ignoring a post you don't want to read. It is a different matter when somebody doesn't really want to discuss anything but instead wants to continually vent their rage at various segments of the population. In Pete's case, he was also being very insulting to women, which would have gotten him booted from many other web groups in a hurry. I am a member of a number of TCM and herbal web groups besides this one. From time to time, somebody violates the rules of the group, gets warned repeatedly, and eventually loses access. After a cooling off period, they are usually allowed access again. I don't know Pete's history with the list moderators, but they apparently gave him many chances in the past. I also felt sorry for him. Imagine having those kinds of feelings for your profession? If he could have expressed his dilemma without attacking people, I'm sure he would have received a lot more help. As it was, many people did try to help him. This topic of practice income comes up in other groups, too. In one case, the list moderator no longer practices and sometimes expresses similar feelings as Pete. He had 100,000 dollars in debt and couldn't make a living. But he doesn't attack others who try to give him suggestions. And he takes responsibility for the mistakes he made in starting his practice. After reading his posts, I always made sure I warned new students about the financial realities of starting a practice. So, Pete brought up an important topic. He was just unable to conform to the rules of the group regarding his behavior. Yes, it does help to keep the peace when somebody disruptive loses access. My experience is that when somebody has an emotional agenda, they tend to suppress participation by others in the group. It only takes receiving a few insults for some people to stop posting altogether. I have seen very sincere practitioners quit groups for good after being attacked by a chronically angry member. That's why these groups have moderators. They keep the topics relevant to the goals of the group and remove members who refuse to abide by those rules. If they didn't do that, the group could quickly descend into chaos and become useless. - Bill Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase most of the threads anyway !! > > But seriously, I am disappointed that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more appropriate. Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone with a more draconian bent? > > In any case, I understand how difficult bitterness is to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, banning could create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? > > What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very very few trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned ugly. > > In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of you. > > Hugo > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I would agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter becomes uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard many times the numbers of practicing grads is not really that impressive after 5 years. Instead of blasting him, I think we should have acknowledged his experience and then start looking for solutions to help others. I have been involved in a couple of different schools and find that it appears these students do not seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business stand point and I would question their ability to do well. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : subincor: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:30:51 +0000Re: Re: Pete Thiessen Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase most of the threads anyway !! :DBut seriously, I am disappointed that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more appropriate. Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone with a more draconian bent?In any case, I understand how difficult bitterness is to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, banning could create a healing effect...but was that the intent...?What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very very few trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned ugly.In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of you.HugoAlon Marcus <alonmarcusBillYou can always choose to not read. To me its like all the ranting about media. Just choose what you read<!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text{font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs{font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;font\ -family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0 1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar ..left{float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft{font-fami\ ly:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}#ygrp-ft{font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;padding:5px 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20\ px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transf\ orm:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul{padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul li{list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul li ..ct{font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;paddin\ g-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor #hd{color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor #nc {background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor ..ad{padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height\ :122%;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{margin:0;}o {font-size:0;}.MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text tt{font-size:120%;}blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}.replbq {margin:4;}-->________ Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up foryour free account today http://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http://uk.docs./mail/winter07.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Mike, While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months ago with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process. On Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > I would agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes > uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard > many times > the numbers of practicing grads is not really that impressive after > 5 years. > Instead of blasting him, I think we should have acknowledged his > experience > and then start looking for solutions to help others. I have been > involved in > a couple of different schools and find that it appears these > students do not > seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business stand > point and > I would question their ability to do well. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > To: > Chinese Medicine:subincor > e: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:30:51 +0000Re: Re: Pete Thiessen > > Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase > most of the threads anyway !! :DBut seriously, I am disappointed > that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for > him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, > compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more > appropriate. Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone > with a more draconian bent?In any case, I understand how difficult > bitterness is to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the > list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, > banning could create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? > What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very > very few trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned > ugly.In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of > you.HugoAlon Marcus > <alonmarcusBillYou can always choose to not read. To me > its like all the ranting about media. Just choose what you readAlon > Marcus DOM<!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, > helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font- > size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font: > 99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code > {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text > {font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs > {font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;font- > family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0 > 1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px 0;white- > space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar .left > {float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft > {font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}#ygrp-ft{font- > family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;padding:5px > 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background- > color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital > #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- > weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul > {padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul li{list-style- > type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul li .ct > {font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font- > weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital > a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor #hd > {color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px > 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov > ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{list-style- > type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a > {text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor #nc {background- > color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad > {padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{font-family:Arial;font- > weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp- > sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{text- > decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{margin:0;}o {font-size: > 0;}.MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text tt{font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}.replbq {margin:4;}-- > >________ > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up > foryour free account todayhttp://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http:// > uk.docs./mail/winter07.html[Non-text portions of this > message have been removed] > > ________ > Missed the show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. > http://liveearth.msn.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Okay, now I will say something. I think Pete has a good heart and I will miss him on this group. I do think that conversation had to come under control. I am a woman and a former professor and I have to admit these comments did not offend me. It did make me uncomfortable that they were so blatantly directed at individuals on here. I see a lot of metal in Pete. He cuts like a knife. One minute he says something gem-like to Dr. Nam about his stepfather, and the next minute he is spewing out the garbage of the large intestine. I may have conveyed this story before, so bear with me if you have heard it. I have a male patient who started in my practice when I put out the shingle five years ago. I also knew him when I was a professor. He had acupuncture treatment before I did (in the city - a bit of a drive from here.) Well I treated him for a year or so and I wasn't seeing the changes, so I referred him to a therapist. He met her and decided to do that along with acupuncture. Well, this therapist was the old fashioned kind - let's let this unfold, so another year goes by. He is still trying to work out relationships particularly with his wife, and come to grips with alcoholism. He is very critical every time he comes to my office. After the tornado hit our town (3 months after I set up practice), I moved things to my house. It is really a beautiful office and patients love it. He would come in and complain about the grass, the this, the that. He would say in so many words that I was not as good as his last practitioner. If I went to find the point twice - he would make a derogotory remark about that.. I found myself bracing myself before he came in. When I want to draw the line on this, is when it effects my focus on other patients, and it was starting to do that. I really believe we have to meet this energy as much as we can before it becomes intolerable. I spoke to a few of my colleagues, and they said " Don't fire him. " Do this. One suggestion was to offer him " metal " acknowlegement to control the anger in wood. I got a few different suggestions, and hung in there. Mind you none of this was about money. It was about me as a practiitioner and this relationship of serving him and those around him. So one day he comes in and says " I was up all night. My wife and I started arguing and then we had a really deep discussion about our lives and relationship (I'm paraphrasing). I haven't been nice to people - my wife, my kids, and he went on (and did not mention me). I will tell you, there was a huge change in this man. My explanation is that the needles over time, along with his therapy, brought some things to the surface that needed to come up. He still has some moments of criticism (nothing like before), he still has some challenges with his wife (drastically different than before), and he still confronts the challenge of alcohol. He really is different and the people around him are also served. Now, I have fired patients before, and of course they can fire me. But I always walk this line to see how much of this is about me stepping up as a practiitoner, and how much is just time to draw the line. These are just my thoughts folks. Not meant to offend anyone - just a rambling and and observation. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- Hugo Ramiro <subincor > Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase most of the > threads anyway !! > > But seriously, I am disappointed that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have > gone really badly for him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, > compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more appropriate. > Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone with a more draconian > bent? > > In any case, I understand how difficult bitterness is to handle...at the same > time, I am surprised at the list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But > then, who knows, banning could create a healing effect...but was that the > intent...? > > What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very very few > trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned ugly. > > In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of you. > > Hugo > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus Bill > > You can always choose to not read. To me its like all the ranting about media. > Just choose what you read > > > > > > > > > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > #ygrp-text{ > font-family:Georgia; > } > #ygrp-text p{ > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > font-family:Arial; > clear:both;} > #ygrp-vitnav{ > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > padding:0 1px;} > #ygrp-actbar{ > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-grft{ > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > #ygrp-ft{ > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > padding:5px 0; > } > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > padding-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-vital{ > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp > ercase;} > #ygrp-vital ul{ > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > } > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri > ght:.5em;} > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-vital a { > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #nc { > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > padding:8px 0;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122% > ;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > text-decoration:none;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > margin:0;} > o {font-size:0;} > .MsoNormal { > margin:0 0 0 0;} > #ygrp-text tt{ > font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > .replbq {margin:4;} > --> > > _________ > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for > your free account today > http://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http://uk.docs./mail/winter07.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Zev, So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I thought this forum was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it odd that many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality of others (majority?) and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not practicing for long after school). I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem and also a discussion as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for junk mail, I find a lot of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : zrosenbe: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete Thiessen Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months ago with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.On Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes> uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard > many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking for solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple of different schools and find that it appears these > students do not> seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business stand > point and> I would question their ability to do well. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac>> > Chinese Medicine:subincor > e: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:30:51 +0000Re: Re: Pete Thiessen>> Hi all...I'm with Alon on this one. Hit the delete key...I erase > most of the threads anyway !! :DBut seriously, I am disappointed > that Pete was banned. Things seemed to have gone really badly for > him, and he is understandably angry about it. A temporary, > compassionate, ban (a time-out, if you will) might have been more > appropriate. Does the software do that, or was it coded by someone > with a more draconian bent?In any case, I understand how difficult > bitterness is to handle...at the same time, I am surprised at the > list. We're supposed to be healers here...? But then, who knows, > banning could create a healing effect...but was that the intent...? > What I saw was a lot of people trying to shut him down, and very > very few trying to listen and support. I'm not surprised it turned > ugly.In any case, I am still disappointed. Poo poo on all of > you.HugoAlon Marcus > <alonmarcusBillYou can always choose to not read. To me > its like all the ranting about media. Just choose what you readAlon > Marcus DOM<!--#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, > helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg table {font- > size:inherit;font:100%;}#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font: > 99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code > {font:115% monospace;}#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#ygrp-text > {font-family:Georgia;}#ygrp-text p{margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrp-tpmsgs > {font-family:Arial;clear:both;}#ygrp-vitnav{padding-top:10px;font- > family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}#ygrp-vitnav a{padding:0 > 1px;}#ygrp-actbar{clear:both;margin:25px 0;white- > space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}#ygrp-actbar .left > {float:left;white-space:nowrap;}.bld{font-weight:bold;}#ygrp-grft > {font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}#ygrp-ft{font- > family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;padding:5px > 0;}#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{padding-bottom:10px;}#ygrp-vital{background- > color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}#ygrp-vital > #vithd{font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- > weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}#ygrp-vital ul > {padding:0;margin:2px 0;}#ygrp-vital ul li{list-style- > type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;}#ygrp-vital ul li .ct > {font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;}#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{font- > weight:bold;}#ygrp-vital a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-vital > a:hover{text-decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor #hd > {color:#999;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov{padding:6px > 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov > ul{padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{list-style- > type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a > {text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}#ygrp-sponsor #nc {background- > color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad > {padding:8px 0;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{font-family:Arial;font- > weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}#ygrp- > sponsor .ad a{text-decoration:none;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{text- > decoration:underline;}#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{margin:0;}o {font-size: > 0;}.MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#ygrp-text tt{font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}.replbq {margin:4;}-- > >________ > Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up > foryour free account todayhttp://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http:// > uk.docs./mail/winter07.html[Non-text portions of this > message have been removed]>> ________> Missed the show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN.> http://liveearth.msn.com>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>> Chair, Department of Herbal MedicinePacific College of Oriental MedicineSan Diego, Ca. 92122[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _______________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69 & FORM=MGAC01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Mike, I think a lot of folks on this list slip through the cracks. . . there have been many postings by people who are not primary practitioners of Chinese medicine. Look at all the inquiries for stuff. . . On Jul 13, 2007, at 1:47 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > Zev, > > So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I > thought this forum > was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it > odd that > many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality > of others (majority?) > and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not > practicing for long after school). > I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem > and also a discussion > as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for > junk mail, I find a lot > of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to > hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > To: > Chinese Medicine:zrosenbe > te: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete > Thiessen > > Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was > interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months > ago with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from > practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of > control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.Z'ev > RosenbergOn Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would > agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes> > uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard > > many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that > impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we > should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking > for solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple > of different schools and find that it appears these > students do > not> seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business > stand > point and> I would quest > ________ > Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in > one place! Find it! > http://maps.live.com/?wip=69 & FORM=MGAC01 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Zev, I often have wondered as well but some of them may be and that does not bode well for us either. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : zrosenbe: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:04:59 -0700Re: Re: Pete Thiessen Mike,I think a lot of folks on this list slip through the cracks. . . there have been many postings by people who are not primary practitioners of Chinese medicine. Look at all the inquiries for stuff. . .On Jul 13, 2007, at 1:47 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> Zev,>> So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I > thought this forum> was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it > odd that> many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality > of others (majority?)> and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not > practicing for long after school).> I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem > and also a discussion> as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for > junk mail, I find a lot> of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to > hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac>> > Chinese Medicine:zrosenbe > te: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete > Thiessen>> Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was > interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months > ago with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from > practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of > control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.Z'ev > RosenbergOn Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would > agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes> > uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard > > many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that > impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we > should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking > for solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple > of different schools and find that it appears these > students do > not> seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business > stand > point and> I would quest> ________> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in > one place! Find it!> http://maps.live.com/?wip=69 & FORM=MGAC01>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>> Chair, Department of Herbal MedicinePacific College of Oriental MedicineSan Diego, Ca. 92122[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _______________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 The list is open to all who work in health care. That said, non-TCM practitioners are vetted before approving their membership. As this process isn't formalized, occassionally we get members who aren't a good fit or don't belong for one reason or another. They are dealt with on a case by case basis. This is all of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. - Mark On 7/13/07, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > Zev, > > I often have wondered as well but some of them may be and that > does not bode well for us either. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > : zrosenbe: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:04:59 -0700Re: Re: Pete Thiessen > > > > > Mike,I think a lot of folks on this list slip through the cracks. . . there have been many postings by people who are not primary practitioners of Chinese medicine. Look at all the inquiries for stuff. . .On Jul 13, 2007, at 1:47 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> Zev,>> So then why was he allowed continuing access if he has retired? I > thought this forum> was for practitioners/students. From time to time, I have found it > odd that> many in our profession have difficulty with acknowledging reality > of others (majority?)> and the way things stand (ie, a majority of grads are not > practicing for long after school).> I guess I was hoping to hear some acknowledgement of this problem > and also a discussion> as to suggestions that could help, both for schools and LAc. As for > junk mail, I find a lot> of discussions on this forum get deleted as such (sorry). Nice to > hear from you again. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac>> > Chinese Medicine:zrosenbe > te: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:53:01 -0700Re: Re: Pete > Thiessen>> Mike,While I had no problem with Pete personally, this thread was > interminable, we'd been down this road before not too many months > ago with the same subject, same person, and Pete also retired from > practice some time ago. My opinion was that this thread was out of > control, and generating a lot of junk mail in the process.Z'ev > RosenbergOn Jul 12, 2007, at 8:34 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> I would > agree with Hugo on this as well. When the subject matter > becomes> > uncomfortable we tend to ignore the realities of it. I have heard > > many times> the numbers of practicing grads is not really that > impressive after > 5 years.> Instead of blasting him, I think we > should have acknowledged his > experience> and then start looking > for solutions to help others. I have been > involved in> a couple > of different schools and find that it appears these > students do > not> seem to understand what it takes, at least from a business > stand > point and> I would quest> ________> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in > one place! Find it!> http://maps.live.com/?wip=69 & FORM=MGAC01>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>> Chair, Department of Herbal MedicinePacific College of Oriental MedicineSan Diego, Ca. 92122[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _______________ > See what you're getting into…before you go there. > http://newlivehotmail.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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