Guest guest Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 , " Merlin " <merlin wrote: > If you have any ideas, opinions or facts or suggestions or any >documented research to contribute, I'd love to hear from you. I had read about psychopathy (present in about 4-6% of the population). Some people prefer to use the term " sociopath " , because Hollywood had loaded the term psychopath with a lot of stereotypes " a la Hannibal Lecter " . But a psychopath is not exclusively a serial killer, in fact it can be much more subtle (some examples can be found in our own governments and in CEOs of Big Pharma). Some pedophiles can be psychopaths and from that branch the possibility of therapy is pretty much non existent. Psychopaths are notorious for deceiving psychotherapists, figuring out how to act and respond so they can be " left alone " and do their predatory things again in a more covertly way, to put one example. They don't have empathy nor conscience, but they can mimic them for manipulative purposes. One of the most important books on the subject is " Mask of Sanity " by Hervey Cleckley (available as a free download somewhere in the web). I understand this is the kind of population you're not researching, as the psychopath-pedophile is just the way he is by " nature " , that is, there are biological and genetic factors involved. And actually, criminal behavior does not equal psychopathy, in fact 80% of imprisioned immates are NOT psychopaths. It has a genetic basis and it is not something that society provokes, although society might play a role in how it manifests. To put just one practical example: some psychopaths already were killing cute little animals when they were kids just for the fun of it, even if they were raised in healthy environments were compassionate values were emphasized. So even though you're not particularly interested in researching psychopaths, it is important to have it in mind because your research will probably attract a few of them. They can deceive people into believing they are suffering and one can easily project all kinds of struggles into a person who doesn't give a damn to begin with, specially when they mimic so well such struggles. I think the one of the best books in the topic is " Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders " by Anna Salter, PhD (http://www.amazon.com/Predators-Pedophiles-Rapists-Other-Offenders/dp/046507173\ 2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1221833395 & sr=8-1) Some references on psychopathy: Mask of Sanity by Hervey Cleckley Snakes in Suits by Paul Babiak and Robert Hare Without Conscience by Robert Hare The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout http://www.friedgreentomatoes.org/articles_index.php http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/182/1/5 http://www.geocities.com/lycium7/psychopathy.html http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick-of-the-Psychopath-s-Trade-Mak\ e-Us-Believe-that-Evil-Comes-from-Others http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/early_signs_of_antisocial_p\ ersonal http://www.cqs.com/psycho.htm best, navegante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 This is utterly one of the most ridiculous postings I have EVER seen in my life! I am a survivor of incest from both my father and step father. My brothers are as well. I have researched extensively over the years about this problem. I have worked with Pedophiles as well, trying to understand. What I know to be true is that that is their sexual orientation....it is the SAME as any of us. Mine happens to be adult men....some women it may be adult women...some men it may be adult men....for them it is CHILDREN.....wake up! You don't rehab the rest of us who have a different sexual orientation. Seriously! Merlin <merlin Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:48:00 AM Pedophilia/Paedophilia Research Hi All, I'm busy with an intensive research that involves studying Paedophilia as a Disease. I'm working with someone from New York whom has had experiences of her children being sexually molested by a Paedophile. My background is one of Criminal Investigation with an interest in Health and Human Psychology. My Friends experience involved her son in law abuse her younger son and daughter 12 years ago over a period of years, and the exposure and investigation of this has torn the whole family apart. After uphill battles with Legal and Medical professionals and System, she decided to further investigate this on her own and is now in the process of writing a book pertaining to these investigative findings and newer understandings. We believe that there's a chance of positive rehabilitation for some paedophiles, and that most cases of Paedophilia can be treated and/or successfully managed Medically. The premise is that all children are born innocent and loving and that something turns kids into inconsiderate and even cruel abusers. That cruelty/evil is really an expression of pain and insecurities born out in children. We're investigating that fact deeper. We're definitely not PRO-Paedophile Abuse, we're just more concerned about CURING and MANAGING Paedophilia as a disease, rather than JUST treating it as a Crime and the offender as a Criminal. It seems to us through our own investigations and understandings that from a medical and legal profit angle, it pays these professions and professionals to treat Paedophilia as a Crime, rather than attempting to find a cure to at least MANAGE it. We believe that Paedophilia can be likened to Kleptomania and Nymphomania, Alcoholism and Drug and Gambling addictions etc. We believe also there is this conspiracy to keep Paedophilia as a Crime to keep the medical and legal professions cushy and busy. By curing a Paedophile to manage his/her own disease, one ends a cycle of a family being torn apart and the legal and medical implications and costs involved in that. The biggest problem we have in Society with Paedophilia is that Paedophiles desiring help for their sexual urge attraction/addictio n to children, can't 'come out the closet' and speak about their addiction and problems. There is no "Professional/ Client Confidentiality" between Patient and Physician. This confidentiality falls away when it comes to Paedophilia, and Professionals are bound by law to report such paedophile and information to the Justice department.. .so Paedophiles really have no where to turn to seek help for themselves and their addictions and there's really no recourse available to rehabilitation. We have Rehab centres and treatments for every other kind of addiction, yet there's no way out for one suffering with Paedophilia. It's easier for Society to point fingers and Blame, than it is to take greater responsibility with less judgment, so we as a Society prefer to be sensationalized by this disease and to sweep it under the carpet rather than address it as a Societal Health Issue. We'd rather it be a Criminal Interrogation Investigation than a Health Realization Rehabilitation. So this is why my friend and myself are working on this book to further investigate Paedophilia and possible steps to cure or manage it as a disease/addiction, and to also create a greater awareness to replace the ignorance and fear associated with Paedophilia. If you have any ideas, opinions or facts or suggestions or any documented research to contribute, I'd love to hear from you. Also if you're one suffering from any level or form of Paedophilia and have no where to turn for help and want to be part of this project, we'd appreciate any confidential input and participation from you too. Thanking you all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Pedophilia, Dear Merlin, As a worker in the mental health field for over 23 years, I have seen pedophiles treated without much sucess, mostly because they really are not will to change. Most of the ones that came through our clinic were " court ordered " . After evaluation, the court ordered them to take a drug " deprovera " , a female hormone, which was supposed to help the " urges " , most tried to refuse treatment. In spite of individual & group therapy all re-offended and had to be locked up. Amoung our therapist, pedophilia was considered a (possible) genetic obsessive compulsive disorder which was incurable. I think your views are naive and possibly dangerous for society at large and to children in partiular. There is no drug now on the market specifically for this " disorder " . Perhaps one day they will find one in the future but until then I would be unwilling to risk the lives of innocent children for your " plan " . It is not predicated on reality. Talk first to psychiatrists and psychologists who have treated pedophiles and observed the reoffend time after time! Get Real! , " Merlin " <merlin wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm busy with an intensive research that involves studying Paedophilia as a Disease. I'm working with someone from New York whom has had experiences of her children being sexually molested by a Paedophile. My background is one of Criminal Investigation with an interest in Health and Human Psychology. My Friends experience involved her son in law abuse her younger son and daughter 12 years ago over a period of years, and the exposure and investigation of this has torn the whole family apart. After uphill battles with Legal and Medical professionals and System, she decided to further investigate this on her own and is now in the process of writing a book pertaining to these investigative findings and newer understandings. We believe that there's a chance of positive rehabilitation for some paedophiles, and that most cases of Paedophilia can be treated and/or successfully managed Medically. The premise is that all children are born innocent and loving and that something turns kids into inconsiderate and even cruel abusers. That cruelty/evil is really an expression of pain and insecurities born out in children. We're investigating that fact deeper. We're definitely not PRO-Paedophile Abuse, we're just more concerned about CURING and MANAGING Paedophilia as a disease, rather than JUST treating it as a Crime and the offender as a Criminal. It seems to us through our own investigations and understandings that from a medical and legal profit angle, it pays these professions and professionals to treat Paedophilia as a Crime, rather than attempting to find a cure to at least MANAGE it. We believe that Paedophilia can be likened to Kleptomania and Nymphomania, Alcoholism and Drug and Gambling addictions etc. We believe also there is this conspiracy to keep Paedophilia as a Crime to keep the medical and legal professions cushy and busy. By curing a Paedophile to manage his/her own disease, one ends a cycle of a family being torn apart and the legal and medical implications and costs involved in that. > > The biggest problem we have in Society with Paedophilia is that Paedophiles desiring help for their sexual urge attraction/addiction to children, can't 'come out the closet' and speak about their addiction and problems. There is no " Professional/Client Confidentiality " between Patient and Physician. This confidentiality falls away when it comes to Paedophilia, and Professionals are bound by law to report such paedophile and information to the Justice department...so Paedophiles really have no where to turn to seek help for themselves and their addictions and there's really no recourse available to rehabilitation. We have Rehab centres and treatments for every other kind of addiction, yet there's no way out for one suffering with Paedophilia. It's easier for Society to point fingers and Blame, than it is to take greater responsibility with less judgment, so we as a Society prefer to be sensationalized by this disease and to sweep it under the carpet rather than address it as a Societal Health Issue. We'd rather it be a Criminal Interrogation Investigation than a Health Realization Rehabilitation. So this is why my friend and myself are working on this book to further investigate Paedophilia and possible steps to cure or manage it as a disease/addiction, and to also create a greater awareness to replace the ignorance and fear associated with Paedophilia. If you have any ideas, opinions or facts or suggestions or any documented research to contribute, I'd love to hear from you. Also if you're one suffering from any level or form of Paedophilia and have no where to turn for help and want to be part of this project, we'd appreciate any confidential input and participation from you too. > > Thanking you all... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 In today's society it is easier to change you sex than your sexual orientation. Jude is 99% right.--- On Fri, 9/19/08, Jude Johnson <jjskinguru wrote: Jude Johnson <jjskinguruRe: Pedophilia/Paedophilia Research Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 11:45 AM This is utterly one of the most ridiculous postings I have EVER seen in my life! I am a survivor of incest from both my father and step father. My brothers are as well. I have researched extensively over the years about this problem. I have worked with Pedophiles as well, trying to understand. What I know to be true is that that is their sexual orientation. ...it is the SAME as any of us. Mine happens to be adult men....some women it may be adult women...some men it may be adult men....for them it is CHILDREN.... .wake up! You don't rehab the rest of us who have a different sexual orientation. Seriously! Merlin <merlin. za>@ .. comFriday, September 19, 2008 5:48:00 AM[Health_and_ Healing] Pedophilia/Paedophi lia Research Hi All, I'm busy with an intensive research that involves studying Paedophilia as a Disease. I'm working with someone from New York whom has had experiences of her children being sexually molested by a Paedophile. My background is one of Criminal Investigation with an interest in Health and Human Psychology. My Friends experience involved her son in law abuse her younger son and daughter 12 years ago over a period of years, and the exposure and investigation of this has torn the whole family apart. After uphill battles with Legal and Medical professionals and System, she decided to further investigate this on her own and is now in the process of writing a book pertaining to these investigative findings and newer understandings. We believe that there's a chance of positive rehabilitation for some paedophiles, and that most cases of Paedophilia can be treated and/or successfully managed Medically. The premise is that all children are born innocent and loving and that something turns kids into inconsiderate and even cruel abusers. That cruelty/evil is really an expression of pain and insecurities born out in children. We're investigating that fact deeper. We're definitely not PRO-Paedophile Abuse, we're just more concerned about CURING and MANAGING Paedophilia as a disease, rather than JUST treating it as a Crime and the offender as a Criminal. It seems to us through our own investigations and understandings that from a medical and legal profit angle, it pays these professions and professionals to treat Paedophilia as a Crime, rather than attempting to find a cure to at least MANAGE it. We believe that Paedophilia can be likened to Kleptomania and Nymphomania, Alcoholism and Drug and Gambling addictions etc. We believe also there is this conspiracy to keep Paedophilia as a Crime to keep the medical and legal professions cushy and busy. By curing a Paedophile to manage his/her own disease, one ends a cycle of a family being torn apart and the legal and medical implications and costs involved in that. The biggest problem we have in Society with Paedophilia is that Paedophiles desiring help for their sexual urge attraction/addictio n to children, can't 'come out the closet' and speak about their addiction and problems. There is no "Professional/ Client Confidentiality" between Patient and Physician. This confidentiality falls away when it comes to Paedophilia, and Professionals are bound by law to report such paedophile and information to the Justice department.. .so Paedophiles really have no where to turn to seek help for themselves and their addictions and there's really no recourse available to rehabilitation. We have Rehab centres and treatments for every other kind of addiction, yet there's no way out for one suffering with Paedophilia. It's easier for Society to point fingers and Blame, than it is to take greater responsibility with less judgment, so we as a Society prefer to be sensationalized by this disease and to sweep it under the carpet rather than address it as a Societal Health Issue. We'd rather it be a Criminal Interrogation Investigation than a Health Realization Rehabilitation. So this is why my friend and myself are working on this book to further investigate Paedophilia and possible steps to cure or manage it as a disease/addiction, and to also create a greater awareness to replace the ignorance and fear associated with Paedophilia. If you have any ideas, opinions or facts or suggestions or any documented research to contribute, I'd love to hear from you. Also if you're one suffering from any level or form of Paedophilia and have no where to turn for help and want to be part of this project, we'd appreciate any confidential input and participation from you too. Thanking you all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Hi Dak, Thank you ( and all others too) for sharing your opinions. I agree with most of what you've written. You write, "As a worker in the mental health field for over 23 years, I have seenpedophiles treated without much sucess, mostly because they reallyare not will to change. Most of the ones that came through ourclinic were "court ordered". After evaluation, the court orderedthem to take a drug "deprovera", a female hormone, which was supposedto help the "urges", most tried to refuse treatment. In spite ofindividual & group therapy all re-offended and had to be locked up." I agree with this totally and it's why I believe the system we have is NOT WORKING and why it is imperative to move beyond the dark ages mentality of "lock up or kill" to deal with our ignorance's and fears. The treatment and it's approach is simply NOT WORKING, so we need to look at alternatives! By judging the behaviour, let's not judge the carrier of this disease too. That'll surely just further shame the individual and his/her community of individuals and set them into deeper places of hiding for self preservation and protection, not so? Do we want these guys to be in hiding and in banishment punishment, or do we want then exposed and helped? That's really my question here, and my statement is that whatever we're doing is NOT WORKING anyways..it's just evolving the problem! If my view is dangerous for Society and children, then I don't know how successfully safe Society's view is for itself and it's children..after all we're living it and it DANGEROUS! We're not gonna find a solution to this problem without paying full attention to it and looking at ALL ALTERNATIVES. It's not going to go away through judging, condemning and incarcerating sick people. We don't lock up guys with Alzheimers and make public lists of them, even though they too are a burden and potential danger to themselves and society. In the dark ages we judged, condemned and banished 'leper's like Paedophiles, maybe in time we'll outgrow our ignorance's and fears pertaining to Paedophilia too. But before then, we'll need to look at other alternatives to what is NOT working anyways. There are varying degrees to Paedophilia. Like with Dementia it can be in various stages and at varying degrees and some can be treated successfully with medication and some may require institutionalizing. We don't send our Dementia patients to jail, we send then to Health institutions. Even if they have committed horrible acts of violence and abuse! I'm suggesting the same for Paedophiles and Paedophilia. If we address this issue with ignorance and fear, it'll expand upon itself as it is doing and has been doing. We truly need to approach it differently if we want different results! Someone once said, Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well if we want different results, we better do something DIFFERENT, eh? It's insane to think we're beating Paedophilia by excluding and banishing Paedophiles...we truly need to include them into a programme that includes them! Yeah judge the BEHAVIOUR, but it really doesn't help judging the individual with the health problem. That Individual needs HELP and Medical care..even if they ( as you say) don't want it. I know very few alcoholics or drug addicts or gamblers that want help for their addiction problems..doesn't mean they don't NEED it to live better lives for themselves and their loved ones and communities. It doesn't mean that it isn't available and offered to them either..but at least it's there for them, you know? I'm merely suggesting we do and offer the same for Paedophiles too. There is some success in having these institutions and help available for these other addicts..and that is a start. Let's say that one of us has a son or daughter or friend or partner even that's a Paedophile.. where would/could we go and what would/could we do? I just want to take time here to sincerely thank everyone else for also sharing information and their opinions, even though we may or may not agree with one another. In the end we all really want the same things, A Healthier and Safer Society and Community for all. A Peaceful, Loving and Non Judgmental/ Discriminatory Society and Community. We can all have that if we all work towards that while dealing with issues at hand with compassion and kindness and open mindedness. Regards and best wishes, Merlin. Re: Pedophilia/Paedophilia Research Pedophilia,Dear Merlin,As a worker in the mental health field for over 23 years, I have seenpedophiles treated without much sucess, mostly because they reallyare not will to change. Most of the ones that came through ourclinic were "court ordered". After evaluation, the court orderedthem to take a drug "deprovera", a female hormone, which was supposedto help the "urges", most tried to refuse treatment. In spite ofindividual & group therapy all re-offended and had to be locked up.Amoung our therapist, pedophilia was considered a (possible) geneticobsessive compulsive disorder which was incurable.I think your views are naive and possibly dangerous for society atlarge and to children in partiular. There is no drug now on themarket specifically for this "disorder". Perhaps one day they willfind one in the future but until then I would be unwilling to riskthe lives of innocent children for your "plan". It is not predicatedon reality. Talk first to psychiatrists and psychologists who havetreated pedophiles and observed the reoffend time after time! GetReal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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