Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 >>>...inflamed prostate (not BPH)...has tried most Western herbs/supplements (Zinc, Saw Palmetto, Lycopene, Curcumin, Pygeum, Stinging Nettle, etc.), some alone, some in combo, with little improvement...Any other thoughts on the tx of prostatitis? Daniel C. Luthi, Nutritionist<<< Daniel, I have found in my prostate disease researches that most supplements are not strong enough to do much good. The one type of supplement that does seem to help is straight beta-sitosterol. Saw palmetto and pygeum seem to mainly work, if at all, because they contain a little bit of beta-sitosterol, but you need a lot more than they contain to do much good, or else consume extreme quantities of them. Overall, the best treatment for prostatitis that I know of, though, is a good pattern differentiation, appropriate acupuncture and RAW herbs. The main differentiations are 1) Damp heat in the lower jiao, 2) Damp heat in the lower jiao accompanied by stagnant qi and static blood, 3) Damp heat in the lower jiao accompanied by kidney vacuity, or 4) some combination of the above. The main points to choose from are Sp-9, Sp-6, GB-34, St-44, St-28, Sp-10, Liv-2, UB-39 (important!), UB-66, UB-23 and Kd-3. The main formulas are Ba Zheng San or Bei Xie Fen Qing Yin, perhaps mixed with Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan, Liu Wei Di Huang Wan, Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan, or their variations. Be sure whoever treats him is careful to differentiate for blood stasis or its lack. I have treated a number of prostate cases and have yet to find one that did not also have heart problems of some sort, though I have never seen this connection made in any book. Perhaps the Shaoyin-Taiyang subcircuit (French Energetic Theory) comes into play here. Perhaps heart heat finds its way into the SI and then the UB. Or perhaps Kd weakness finds its way to the heart and thence to the SI and UB. Or more likely some more complicated mishmash of all the above. Perhaps Kd Yang Xu is really UB Yang Xu, and Heart Qi/Yang Xu is really SI Qi/Yang Xu. In any case, in most prostate problems I've seen, the UB, Kd and Ht are involved, and in many cases, especially BPH, also the intestines (constipation), which could have an SI component. In fact, if there is constipation with difficult urination, you need to first relieve the constipation before urination will flow smoothly. Joseph G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Really? Dao Chi San is a well known formula that clears Heart Heat via the Small Intestine which can be used for Lin syndrome. Check it out in Bensky, p. 95. Geoff > __________ > > Message: 20 > Tue, 13 May 2003 15:47:34 EDT > acugrpaz > Re: Prostatitis > > > I have treated a number of prostate cases and have yet to > find one that did > not also have heart problems of some sort, though I have > never seen this > connection made in any book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Geoff, Well, you have me there, sort of. I'm quite aware of Dao Chi San and its mechanisms, but what I meant, and was not clear about, was that in any discussion of prostate problems I have ever seen, and I have seen many, I have never seen anyone make a point about the connection between heart problems and bladder problems. Considering their ubiquitous nature in my experience, this seems like a missing link. Joseph >>>Really? Dao Chi San is a well known formula that clears Heart Heat via the Small Intestine which can be used for Lin syndrome. Check it out in Bensky, p. 95. Geoff > __________ > > Message: 20 > Tue, 13 May 2003 15:47:34 EDT > acugrpaz > Re: Prostatitis > > > I have treated a number of prostate cases and have yet to > find one that did > not also have heart problems of some sort, though I have > never seen this > connection made in any book. <<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 In my Zang Fu book, it says the Small Intestine is involved with Jin Ye metabolisim, sending impure substance it receives from the Stomach to the Kidney and Urinary Bladder. I think what you're saying though is that you are discussing prostate problems in terms of western medicine and they don't see the connection between the heart and bladder, which makes sense since they don't use yin yang relationships between the organs. As far as I know, I've never heard the prostate called a zang fu or curious organ, but I would consider it a part of the Kidney or UB systems. > __________ > > Message: 15 > Wed, 14 May 2003 20:54:45 EDT > acugrpaz > Re: Prostatitis > > Geoff, > Well, you have me there, sort of. I'm quite aware of Dao Chi > San and its > mechanisms, but what I meant, and was not clear about, was > that in any > discussion of prostate problems I have ever seen, and I have > seen many, I > have never seen anyone make a point about the connection > between heart > problems and bladder problems. Considering their ubiquitous > nature in my > experience, this seems like a missing link. > Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Geoff, Actually, what I mean is that I neither see an empirical connection in Western medicine between heart disease and prostate disease, nor do I see much of any reference to a heart-prostate/bladder connection in Chinese medicine. Yes, theoretically the heart connects to the SI, which connects to the bladder, and there is the formula Dao Chi San for heart heat making its way through the SI to the bladder, but in all the many CM presentations I've seen on prostate disease treatments, I have never even seen this pattern referred to, much less any greater sphere of heart-bladder connections reported. Perhaps it is a new thing or I am seeing a peculiar population. Also, in my understanding, there is no reference specifically to the prostate in classical CM, just as there is no reference to the pancreas. The prostate is apparently subsumed into the category of bladder, just as the pancreas is subsumed into the heading of spleen. The only patterns I see in prostatea presentations are the various (lower jiao) strangury Lin Syndrome categories--damp heat, heat, fatigue (qi xu), stone, blood, qi stagnation, etc., as well as damp cold, blood stasis and kidney xu. The major connection made to other organ systems beside the kidney/bladder are the large intestine, liver and spleen. Joseph >>>In my Zang Fu book, it says the Small Intestine is involved with Jin Ye metabolisim, sending impure substance it receives from the Stomach to the Kidney and Urinary Bladder. I think what you're saying though is that you are discussing prostate problems in terms of western medicine and they don't see the connection between the heart and bladder, which makes sense since they don't use yin yang relationships between the organs. As far as I know, I've never heard the prostate called a zang fu or curious organ, but I would consider it a part of the Kidney or UB systems. Geoff > __________ > > Message: 15 > Wed, 14 May 2003 20:54:45 EDT > acugrpaz > Re: Prostatitis > > Geoff, > Well, you have me there, sort of. I'm quite aware of Dao Chi > San and its > mechanisms, but what I meant, and was not clear about, was > that in any > discussion of prostate problems I have ever seen, and I have > seen many, I > have never seen anyone make a point about the connection > between heart > problems and bladder problems. Considering their ubiquitous > nature in my > experience, this seems like a missing link. > Joseph<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Geoff, Joseph et. al This whole prostate conversation got me to thinking. I also had always thought about the prostate as part of the UB system. I put the question to my teacher here in Beijing, Wang Ju Yi. He approaches any question from a meridian theory physiology perspective. He maintains that the prostate is near the UB but is not classically considered part of the UB Tai Yang system unless there is actually fairly severe inflammation leading to urinary changes (the Lin syndrome that you guys are talking about). He maintains that if there are significant urinary changes that Tai Yang UB/SI is an appropriate way to think about herbs or acupuncture; so he seems to agree with the Dao Chi San (modified) in that case. Generally though, in normal TCM physiology, he associates the prostate with the Shao Fu (lower abdomen) and the Luo channels of Liver Jue Yin. If there is BPH or Prostatitis with fairly mild urinary changes, he counsels considering Liver Heat as a diagnosis. In acupuncture, he reccomends Jue Yin treatment of Liv 5 (li gou) and Liv 3 (tai chong) with a combination of hand Jue Yin points like P 6 (nei guan) or Shao Yang channel points like SJ 5 (wai guan) if heat is more (draining yin channel heat from the paired yang channel). These same ideas might be applied to herbal approaches as well. hope this helps Jason RobertsonJason Robertson, L.Ac. Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi Beijing, Peoples Republic of China home-86-010-8405-0531cell- 86-010-13520155800 The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Could anyone suggest how I can treat Prostatitis, my partner has recently been diagnosed with it. Peta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 herbal remedies , " petacelleste " <petacelleste wrote: > > Could anyone suggest how I can treat Prostatitis, my partner has > recently been diagnosed with it. > > Peta > dear peta Bearberry plant leaves are used: sock one tablespone of dried leafs in a glass of cold water for 5 hrs then boil for 10 mints, strain and drink hot,in the evening. it has unpleasent tast, you may add green ment to the boiling water during the last 2-3 mints. of boiling process to ease the taste. urine may turn blackish then olive oil like yellow.turning clear means curig accomplished.Best wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Dear Peta, Use the Prostate Formula in the Files. It truly does work wonders. In Knowledge, Health, & Freedom, Doc Doc Shillington727-447-5282Doc - jarrar_ibrahim herbal remedies Friday, September 22, 2006 7:53 AM Herbal Remedies - Re: PROSTATITIS herbal remedies , "petacelleste" <petacelleste wrote:>> Could anyone suggest how I can treat Prostatitis, my partner has > recently been diagnosed with it.> > Peta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Hi Jarrar, How many times a day should he drink this and how long will it take to "work", he is feeling uncomfortable at the moment and the appointment with the specialist is in December, just before christmas of all times. Petajarrar_ibrahim <jarrar_ibrahim wrote: herbal remedies , "petacelleste" <petacelleste wrote:>> Could anyone suggest how I can treat Prostatitis, my partner has > recently been diagnosed with it.> > Peta>dear petaBearberry plant leaves are used: sock one tablespone of dried leafs in a glass of cold water for 5 hrs then boil for 10 mints, strain and drink hot,in the evening. it has unpleasent tast, you may add green ment to the boiling water during the last 2-3 mints. of boiling process to ease the taste. urine may turn blackish then olive oil like yellow.turning clear means curig accomplished.Best wishes. On 7 PS Trixi: Check back weekly for Trixi's new online adventures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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