Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hey Akiko, > Hi Butch, > >> We have no major Networks now that are Conservative .. have some >>idiot talk show hosts who are but ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN are liberal >> as could be .. the up and coming (passed CNN I read) Fox News leans >>a bit right of center but while in the USA I watch them and I think >>they do a good job of making a fairly balanced pitch. When I hear >>the CNN reporters describing events I remember my training in >>Psychological Warfare. ;-) > > I have my Master's in media, and I learned that no media is free > from ideology and manipulation. I wish schools here taught how to > watch TV's or read newspaper with critical eyes. Right you are .. it changed since the days of Edward R. Murrow. I wish schools in America taught logic, geography and history in a manner that was interesting enough to gain the interest of the student so they would continue their studies on their own and not be influenced by the Media or the crap house lawyers. In another life I spent two years as Director of the Civil Military Operations Department, John F. Kennedy School of International Studies. One of my branches was Political Science .. and one of the classes in that branch was called .. Media as a Tool of Propaganda. It was one of the most interesting and sought after classes in the school. > It's also, relative, I guess. Japanese news networks are very > liberal, and always critical of what the government is doing. They > are aware that they are the ones to stop the government to become > like WW2 Japanese government. I think it's great. They are not owned > by any big coorporation, a media company is a media company. I think its great too .. but odds are they have advertising and the advertisers do dictate some policy. And .. advertisers do not normally advertise in media forums that are far from their own political views. > We had a prime minister who had a kept woman, and he had to resign in > three month after he became PM. Might happen the same in America .. UNLESS .. the media liked him. > So it was different to me that Clinton didn't have to resign... Clinton was lucky .. they didn't have the what for to impeach him so resignation was not an option. > Anyway, because I'm used to the Japanese media, the media here looks more > conservative to me. Hawhawhaw .. then God Save us from the Japanese media. ;-) > I'm not criticizing the media here, though. Why not? They deserve it .. they criticize every thing. > Negative news get very tiresome sometimes. But .. it sells. Blue birds and singing children don't sell. >>I think Moore is a leftist who has chosen to ride that horse for >>his own personal gain .. and he is an opportunist. And IF .. Bush >>loses the election it will be interesting to see how folks like >>Moore continue to make a living. > > A lot of film makers are opportunists, I think. Also, the right wing > talk radio hosts are. It's all up to the audience, which information > to believe and what to think about it. Just because a conservative > hate talk radio host says " nuke Iraq " doesn't mean that we should, > right? I don't think the " F911 " would make a convert, but will > energize liberals, and it'll be very interesting to see what will > happen in November. Well, I don't have a right to vote...... > I think Moore can make a living for rest of his life just on the > earnings from this movie. I hope you are wrong .. and I hope this one bites him in the butt. CM said he was objective when she knew him .. maybe he was. But not now. Even some in the Left Wing Media are upset with his lies and the way he has presented this joke called F911. Christopher Hitchens writes for " The Nation " http://www.thenation.com/ Christopher Hitchens is a Left Winger .. check the titles on the URL. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021014 & s=hitchens " The Nation " is Left Wing .. nothing Right or Center about it. But if you folks want to take the time to look at Hitchens outstanding review of Scumbag Moore's piece of garbage .. and Hitchens' challenge to Moore to SUE ME .. cause Moore is threatening to do that if anyone puts him or his propaganda down .. they might learn something from it. It is a most interesting review!!!!!!!!!! The Lies of Michael Moore By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ >> I presented a history of the buildup of Islamic Terrorist >> organizations in another post .. historians will show that Islamic >> Jihad against the West began before most readers of this list were >> born .. and built up steam after the demise of the Soviet Union. >> American foreign policy has changed little over my lifetime .. >> its just the manner of execution of policy that varies. > > Hmmm...I'm not so familiar with this issue. Did it start because of > mid East conflict with Israel? Or before, colonization of mid East? It started around 680 AD .. and picked up steam following WWI with the death of the Ottoman Empire and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's modern Turkey. >>But extreme propaganda serves no purpose unless one is at war and >>wants to use it as a tool of war. > > This is exactly what scares me, war time propaganda. I've heard a > lot of horror story about it, in Japan and Germany. What scares me is that Americans in the middle can be influenced by such crap as Michael Moore has put out. Its twisted propaganda and that fat sumbeech is likely to influence people who are smarter than he is under normal circumstances. Where do we draw a line when it comes to winning hearts and minds with bovine excrement just prior to National elections? Seems unethical at best and probably illegal .. I hope .. we will see. >> Not gonna comment on that much .. except to say I have used such >> words myself .. and will likely do so again. ;-) > > It depends on who are " us " and " them " . I'm with Americans, not with > terrorists, off course. But I'm not with the Americans who commited > hate crimes after 9-11, or those who ride the tide and express their > racism or descriminating religious beliefs and think that they are > also " us " . I'm not with the Americans who think " peace " is > unpatriotic word, and very eager to " nuke Iraq " . I felt uncomfortable > and unsafe when Bush said " this is second Pearl Harbor " . Folks who hate need little excuse to commit hate crimes. But .. it was a second Pearl Harbor. The first thought that came to my mind as I stood and watched the second plane hit was just that. > I've met people who told me in person or through email very clear > racist messages, and they think that interracial marriage is sin. Those folks are idiots .. nobody in their right mind can make such comments and there is certainly no need to discuss it on this list because there is no racism observable here. Nor do we know in most cases the race of the folks we are talking to on list. I was married to a Turkish Moslem for 21 + years .. she's a Christian now but that was her choice. Prior to her I was engaged to a Vietnamese Buddhist but she was killed before we were married. Race means exactly nothing .. long as they can cook good. ;-) > What do you think about the factor that Bush is a born-again and how > the rapture issue affecting the current issues? I think its bull shit .. and he has made it clear that his religious beliefs are very personal. If Kerry is a good Catholic and he wins should we expect him to be affected by some of the dogma put out from the Vatican? >>Sane people prefer peace to violence .. but they recognize a need >>to protect themselves too. > > Yes, I do accept a war for deffence. But not provoking others to > attack us is also very important. I have no comment because it has not happened so there is no point to comment on. >>Sure .. as an individual .. but if we are president of a major >>country we find that riding the fence or taking no side is not >>acceptable to either side. We then gotta make it clear that we are >>fer or agin. > > Actually, I agree with you. I think I was afraid of people who > misused the words for their personal purposes. Like Moore .. I REALLY HOPE some folks on the list take the time to read the entire URL above .. its very interesting .. coming from a Liberal. >>No question about that .. but we must be careful to do our best to >>make such criticism as accurate and balanced as possible. We must >>do all we can to stay up with current events and history when we >>play Who Shot John. > > Agree. Which Moore has not done .. and he calls it a documentary .. and I am hoping he runs into legal problems. Most of the things he claims are out and out lies .. some are contrary to the results of congressional inquiries .. that is problematic. >>Whether its better to be careful than sorry might also be phrased >>differently .. sometimes its better to do something wrong than it is >>to do nothing at all. The correctness of strategic decisions is >>rarely known until after the fact. Of course, then it takes a long >>time to straighten out the mess and calm the critics and get the >>show back on the road with a different set of rules. > > I do agree with your point here. What I don't like is, there were > some pressure to silence liberals by calling them as unpatriotic or > anti Americans. I think everyone should be able to express their > feelings and opinions without being labeled as such, because it's > very important time for all Americans. Then let the current go > wherever it needs to go. Remember, one guy was arrested in a NY > mall, because he was wearing a T-shirt saying " give peace a chance " ? I don't remember that and I don't believe it happened for that reason . There is always more to the story. >>And moreso when he states he must do " something " about Blair and >>the UK. The UK can handle their own problems and make their own >>decisions and they will do so at the ballot box. > > Sounds like that's exactly an American British don't like. True fer'shur .. and before this wave of idiotic enthusiasm is over there are going to be many more Americans who don't like Moore. I'm talking about folks on both sides of the political fence. Moore is a pig who is trying to insult the intelligence of the American people. Nobody needs to be fed lies and propaganda in such a fashion prior to National elections. Bush or Kerry should win based on far more than some fat, sloppy idiot's propaganda .. they should discuss issues and debate issues .. face to face or on their own time. This film is a hate crime .. a well sponsored hate campaign. Stupid Moore is even bragging on TV that he made it to help defeat Bush. What kind of precedent is that establishing? Are we to see propaganda films prior to all future elections? It is establishing a new precedent. >>History and geography are certainly missing from the American >>system of education .. > > True. I found it's interesting, that people ask me if life in Japan > is slower and relaxing, and my family must be super rich because > they can afford to come here for vacations. (and those Americans > drive Toyota and listening to Sony stereo). If I said I like here > (even in Los Angeles) because it's more relaxed (means that I can be > more casual here), then they look offended. My husband hated Tokyo > because he had to walk very fast there. But Americans who have > lived in Japan say that California is like a third world country. California is the biggest country in America. >>>I'm not a white or Christian, so I don't know about the issue. >> >>But you do know about it because America's attitude toward Japanese >>during WW II was different than it was toward Germans. And the >>point I made above was that one doesn't have to find that passage in >>the Bible to see the necessity for caring for other people .. IF .. >>they have morals and belief in any form of religion. > > Actually, I know that. It's very sad to think about those Japanese > Americans, who are in fact American citizens. Also, thinking about > if A-bombs were really needed. One of my husband's relatives refused > to come to our wedding because I'm not a white and Christian, and I > don't observe " Christian morals " . Loss of a relationship with that relative is to the benefit of both of you. I went through that with the Turkish man who married my wife's sister .. he refused to invite me to the wedding so my wife refused to go herself .. to her own sister's wedding. >>photos are also taken of unfortunate casualties following terrorist >>bombings in Iraq and there is no shortage of them. > > I know the terrorism acts are awful, too. I was depressed when Nick > Berg was beheaded. I didn't watch the video, and glad I didn't. There will be more. And though I am happy they released the 3 Turks I fear it did more harm to Turkey than yet realized. Of course, saving a life is important but the Islamic Terrorists influenced the ignorant villagers here as much as Michael Moore is influencing some folks. THAT .. is propaganda too .. winning hearts and minds. Its the way Terrorists gain popular support. >>True also is the fact that humane actions rarely make it to the US >>media. > > We need more positive news. I would like to see those people in > media. I have been watching positive news all day .. Karzi was superb when he started rattling off all the changes in his country .. and the attitude of the new Iraqi leadership is (for the moment) very encouraging. On the other hand, CNN was covering F9/11 every 15 minutes and the CNN reporters were grinning like Cheshire Cats. >>That is about Ahmet Chalabi .. not a member of the CIA. > > That's what I meant. Chalabi was giving CIA some information about > Iraq and he might have been connected to Iran. That scares me. Chalabi is now and has always been a spring butt, a liar and a crooked opportunist .. he was never trusted by the FBI, CIA, DIA or any other intel agency of the USA .. Pearl and his gang liked him. I know Pearl and any Arab he likes would be one I could not trust. >>Nothing selfish about mother instincts. That is, unless the kids >>want to go against the wishes of the mother .. as I did. ;-) > > Well, if I will have a son and he wants to go, I will have to let > him go. That is a BIG Roger! ;-) >>I totally support that .. and want to see that attitude be a norm >>in the entire world .. but I'll not live long enough to see it. > > Thanks. Well, let's hope it'll happen...... Yep. >>True .. but the words are .. support and " defend " .. not fight. >>And it says the Constitution and laws of the United States .. not >>government. The part that is optional is " .. that I will bear arms >>on behalf of the United States when required by law .. " but lemme >>tell you .. if a draft is ever initiated (odds are 99.99% against it >>happening) that oath will just mean that those who are conscientious >>objectors can be given non combat support roles .. in hospitals and >>such. > > Sorry, I didn't look it up when I quoted it. But I know what you > mean. I and everybody I know in the military supports the rights of TRUE conscientious objectors .. and many voluntarily serve even now. >>Like I said .. a draft is highly unlikely. The military certainly >>doesn't want one. But the " have to draft girls " part is probably >>true cause if not folks on both sides of the political spectrum will >>holler discrimination. Equality means just that. ;-) > > Yes, I hope it won't happen. I personally don't like women going to > war. But it's just my opinion. I don't like women going to war either .. but there are some super fine pilots that are women. Some folks on this list know that I commanded the MP company in Hawaii (72-73) that was chosen by the first U.S. Army for an experiment of assigning WAC to regular companies .. having them live in the barracks (their own rooms), receive promotions/discipline and whatever by a male commander. They never equaled the men in their ability to handle a wild suspect without drawing a weapon but they were equal in spirit. WAC is history now .. in part due to that experiment. >>As for the nation being divided .. its not any moreso than in >>previous elections .. and we are two nations when it comes to >>political beliefs .. and it must be this way if we are to continue >>to be critters who have freedom of choice. ;-) > > I'm not saying we should have the same opinions. What I meant was, I > hope people can have totally different opinions and still be friends > and respect each other. They can .. and do .. UNLESS .. they're extremists of either side. > To do that, we need to do something about the hate factor, but the > deffinition of " hate " is also a matter of opinions. Yep .. that it is .. I hate milk, warm beer .. and Michael Moore. ;-) > Also, I don't mind that elections go with almost 50-50 all the time. Just goes to show how fickle we can be. :-P > What I mind is, the amount of pressure I feel right now to take sides > with a person, not with individual issues. It's more like love and > hate now than agree and disagree. I agree with Bush on some issues > and agree with Kerry with some issues. And it's fine. But some > people seem like they don't question about any issue and just follow > a person all the way. They are idiots. I'm not normally a Republican or Democrat .. I have voted both tickets. In truth, this is the first election in my adult life that I feel VERY CONCERNED about .. its all about the security of the United States of America .. that bothers me a lot. I don't expect anyone on this list to share my concerns. If Kerry wins and I am later proven to be wrong then its great .. but if I am right I will feel no pride in having been right. I can think of a dozen good Democrats I would consider worthy of my vote if they were in the running now. > In Japan, we still have Socialist party and Communist party. And > it's fine. They have their own function as nay sayers, and they stop > the government to go too extreme. We don't want the communist party > to become a majority, but I can't imagine Japanese pariament without > them. We also have some ultra right wing candidates for every > election, and listening to their speech is very entertaining. People > talk about politics freely and rarely get mad at each other. > I think it was like this here before 9-11, being able to talk about > politics freely. Times were easier back then .. back when Americans were still asleep. Those times will not return again for at least 10-15 more years. We had entered a new era long before 9/11 .. we just didn't pay close attention to it. There were 38 major attacks against American interests during the 8 years of President Clinton's time in office .. but it was never considered to be organized until Osama Yo Mama came along. >>Welcome you are. I have no problems with liberals or conservatives >>though I prefer those who don't stray too far from either side of the >>center. ;-) > > I agree. Extremist is a term well suited to describing dangerous people. >>You are 100% right .. I strongly dislike hanging around folks who >>think as I do cause I can learn nothing from them. I also avoid >>extremists on both ends .. and we have many here .. Nationalists, >>Leftists, Religious Fundamentalists. Then we have the idiots like >>Michael Moore. ;-) > > Yes, the center is the way to go. And thinking about each issue > rationally. Right you are .. that's why the only thing routine about my life is lack of a routine. ;-) >>Good it is and happy I am and you can certainly get some in >>September as there will be more made in late August. Have a smooth >>move. > > Glad to hear that. Thank you! I'll let you know as soon as we > settle. Done and done .. and please do read the URL above. Matters not what one gets out of it today .. its food for future thought/decisions. > Take care again! > Akiko And y'all .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hi Butch, , Butch Owen <butchbsi@s...> wrote: > that branch was called .. Media as a Tool of Propaganda. It was one of the most interesting and sought after classes in the school. I had a film theory class and it was also about how to manipulate audience. We also watched Nazi films in a documentary class, to learn how the filmmaker used the images and editing to create a propaganda film. Very interesting. I loved that class. Hope everyone can take a class like that. > advertisers do dictate some policy. And .. advertisers do not True. Japanese TV companies are critical of politicians but not so much for beurocracy. > Clinton was lucky .. they didn't have the what for to impeach him so resignation was not an option. Hmm......and the Japanese PM was very ugly guy, so I guess no one wanted to see him during dinner time news. > > I'm not criticizing the media here, though. > > Why not? They deserve it .. they criticize every thing. Well, what I meant was, I'm not saying that Japanese media is better or worse. Just my observation. > > Negative news get very tiresome sometimes. > But .. it sells. Blue birds and singing children don't sell. Not so good if it makes everyone depressed. One of the problems in Japan is, media's so negative that people always talking about that it's the end of Japan. But my husband saw no sign of reccession there. Also, once I saw a news headline says " young people went on rampage " or something like that. It turned out to be that some 20 year-olds shook cans of coca cola and opened it at a coming of age party, so it ruined other girls' nice kimonos. Well, rampage here means...... So, I think it's actually not so good that media goes too negative, and makes people forget about how fortunate they are. It's sad to see that people there are not so happy. > But if you folks want to take the time to look at Hitchens I read it. Interesting. I actually haven't seen the movie, yet. I've heard that there are inaccuracy in the film. I'll keep in mind on these points he makes in the article. Thanks for posting it. Like I said before, I don't specially like him or dislike him. I just don't know much about him. But I feel like I've heard more of ultra right than left, so I'm glad that there are some counterpart for the extreme right. Feels like there is more balance now, and I can safely sit in middle. > It started around 680 AD .. and picked up steam following WWI with the death of the Ottoman Empire and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's modern Turkey. What were their targets back then, in 7th century? > What scares me is that Americans in the middle can be influenced The same can be said to Ultra right talk radio hosts. > But .. it was a second Pearl Harbor. The first thought that came That's fine. But I just felt unsafe after that. > Those folks are idiots .. nobody in their right mind can make such > comments and there is certainly no need to discuss it on this list > because there is no racism observable here. That's why I feel safe to post it here. > Prior to her I was engaged to a Vietnamese Buddhist but she was killed before we were married. I'm sorry to hear that...... Race means exactly > nothing .. long as they can cook good. ;-) Hmmm......can I tell you that my husband cooks mostly? > I think its bull shit .. and he has made it clear that his religious beliefs are very personal. Well, there's some videos that worries me a bit. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/view/ > National elections. Bush or Kerry should win based on far more than some fat, sloppy idiot's propaganda .. they should discuss issues and debate issues .. face to face or on their own time. I don't think Moore's film actually affect the election, though. > Loss of a relationship with that relative is to the benefit of both of you. I went through that with the Turkish man who married my wife's sister .. he refused to invite me to the wedding so my wife refused to go herself .. to her own sister's wedding. Yeah, I told my husband I won't see this relative again. I was too naive before, coming from a country where everyone looks the same. So was very shocking to me. > of the new Iraqi leadership is (for the moment) very encouraging. Yes, it was very good news. I was relieved a little bit. Hope it holds well. > > Well, if I will have a son and he wants to go, I will have to let him go. > That is a BIG Roger! ;-) Well, I'm not going to make it easy for him. If he'll have the guts to take the risks, he should be able to take the risk to go against me. Interesting discussion. Thanks, Butch. I think extremists' voice is lot louder than the most people in the middle, so I didn't have enough explanation on this issue. I feel more educated now. Akiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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