OT: Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing and Death and Denial

[Guest guest]

<<

 

And IF .. Bush loses the

election it will be interesting to see how folks like Moore continue to

make a living. Its an old joke in the Army and in politics that when

faults are found they are there due to the efforts of the previous

commander or administration .. >>

 

Butch, if I would be a soldier I would be disgusted with Moore , too. He looks

like a slob, acts like one and I am sure a drill sergeant somewhere is just

itching to get his hands on him..

 

Heard Moore say that he is working on a documentary about the flaws of our

managed health system.HMO's, medicare etc.

Fine with me..

First met Moore in '79 when he had a newspaper ( Village Voice) in Flint and he

did an article on intervenors in Michigan, when we questioned the safety of the

spent fuel expansion at our area nuclear plant. Was designed for x-amount and

wanted to triple for xxx-amount, also had B52 bombers low flying overhead in an

approach landing for foul weather practice, with one plane crashing within

seconds of the plant.

He has not changed much since than.

Got to say one thing.

Over all the years, I've been interviewed, on the news , TV, whatever, he was

the only one that looked at our research, factual papers from the NRC,

questioned what we had before he printed it. He was not easy to deal with. He

wanted facts and more facts, actually called the NRC to check them out.

Most all the other media I dealt with over the years, just wanted a small little

easy to chew over press release, we had to beg them to look at our facts and NRC

papers and although I always included the phone numbers from the NRC for them to

check, they never did, was easier to go to the utility to get their press

release.

I also know Ralph Nader and tell you, those two have about as opposite

personalities as they come.

Nader is the biggest brainiac I've ever met. He had 20 years of factual decision

from the NRC stored in his head like a living computer.

Strange to me that they are both touted to be ultra left.

To me they are just people who stir up the 'apple-card', something that

sometimes is necessary to do, to make people think and by all means I don't'

always agree with their methods to be heard.

Just think where Germany would have been should they have had a Michael Moore or

Nader in '38..

Short lived, killed in a KZ.

------------------

About the genocide in Africa, it bugs the s--t out of me that we pay so little

attention to it.

All poor countries, who go where the wind blows politically and all they want is

food, a simple life and security, a chance for their own destiny.

Why this can't be done in a non-violent way through the resources we have is

beyond my understanding. I know that Doctors without Borders are doing a

phenomenal job there but that's a band-aid, but I do support them financially.

I also know that soldiers in Iraq have done good things to rescue children or to

help ( I've donated to their causes).

Still, we have to show the world we are more than just a mighty army, that we

are also a people with huge compassion for all human beings, not just where

there is oil or political gain.

Food win's hearts, bullets should hit the warlords.

C-M

[Guest guest]

Hey Akiko,

 

> Hi Butch,

>

(Snipped)

 

>> I believe that a nasty, sick man who should lose weight and either

>>shave his ugly face or grow a beard, a man who hates America and sees

>>himself as the Liberal propaganda minister of the Far Left, and has made

>>two propaganda films and who has made the following statements in

>>Europe, is working to confuse the American people and the world and

>>heap disgrace on his country of birth ..

>

> I have to agree with you on Moore needing to lose weight. (LOL)

 

Yep .. in general he seems to have a devious, sloppy look.

 

> I found it's interesting that you said the liberal media twisting

> the news, because I've heard people talking about the opposite, the

> conservative media twisting the news.

> I guess, no one is perfectly neutral.

 

We have no major Networks now that are Conservative .. have some idiot

talk show hosts who are but ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN are liberal as could

be .. the up and coming (passed CNN I read) Fox News leans a bit right

of center but while in the USA I watch them and I think they do a good

job of making a fairly balanced pitch. When I hear the CNN reporters

describing events I remember my training in Psychological Warfare. ;-)

 

> I don't think Moore hates all Americans. I think he hates some

> issues in America which he thinks destructive for American values,

> such as freedom of speech or basic human rights.

 

I think Moore is a leftist who has chosen to ride that horse for his own

personal gain .. and he is an opportunist. And IF .. Bush loses the

election it will be interesting to see how folks like Moore continue to

make a living. Its an old joke in the Army and in politics that when

faults are found they are there due to the efforts of the previous

commander or administration .. in some cases this is true but facts are

often twisted beyond recognition. I presented a history of the buildup

of Islamic Terrorist organizations in another post .. historians will

show that Islamic Jihad against the West began before most readers of

this list were born .. and built up steam after the demise of the Soviet

Union. American foreign policy has changed little over my lifetime ..

its just the manner of execution of policy that varies.

 

> I personally don't like any extremes, but I recognize them as necessary.

 

I too dislike extremists of any kind .. and agree that extreme solutions

to extreme problems are often the best solution .. though not really the

preferred solution. But extreme propaganda serves no purpose unless one

is at war and wants to use it as a tool of war.

 

> We need these extremes that push the limit, so that the rest of us can

> settle somewhere in between, with diversity that works as " check and

> balance " . The problem right now is, I think, that even though the

> majority of us are in somewhere in between, the current president

> has set the standard of two extremes, by divisive talk such as " you

> are either with us or with them " .

 

Not gonna comment on that much .. except to say I have used such words

myself .. and will likely do so again. ;-)

 

> So, for example, I believe in non-violence

 

Sane people prefer peace to violence .. but they recognize a need to

protect themselves too.

 

> and I'd disagree with any killing including this Iraq war, then some

> people say that I was with Saddam. It doesn't work that way.

 

Governments do not have the luxury of allowing personal likes or

dislikes to dictate policy .. or interfere in international relations.

 

To say you are with me or against me to a government when one is

recruiting for an international war against Global Terrorism is not a

bad way to put it. But no need to beat this horse because time will

show who is right or wrong. Those who deny that there is a war going

down now are in for a surprise in years to come. :-(

 

> Can I disagree with Bush and Saddam at the same time?

 

Sure .. as an individual .. but if we are president of a major country

we find that riding the fence or taking no side is not acceptable to

either side. We then gotta make it clear that we are fer or agin.

 

> I believe that being able to criticize one's own government is very

> important for a free nation, to watch what the people who represent

> us are doing.

 

No question about that .. but we must be careful to do our best to make

such criticism as accurate and balanced as possible. We must do all we

can to stay up with current events and history when we play Who Shot John.

 

> How do you prevent, otherwise, that a president to become like Hitler or

> Stalin? Remember, Hitler's party was elected by votes and became majority

> (and started killing).

 

Its hard to prevent it before hand without discussing the issues. And

then settling it at the ballot box. But Hitler's rise to power was

preceded by one of the world's most extreme and successful propaganda

campaigns .. so again, we're back to extremism.

 

> I was raised in post war Japan, and received the education based on

> the Japanese constitution written by the U.S. (I love the

> constitution, by the way. It's beautiful.) The president Bush said

> he wants to make Iraq like Japan, and that's where I came from. So,

> you can assume that I'm a typical post war Japanese, who are exactly

> what the U.S. wanted when the WW2 was over. Now people here in the

> U.S. label me as a liberal or a Democrat. I found it very strange.

 

Not strange to be labeled as a liberal or Democrat. My step-father was

a local Democratic leader in our county .. elected to this and that

small political position as a Democrat. My mother was a Republican and

they used to cancel out each others votes. ;-)

 

> As a Japanese, I learned so much about WW2 and Hitler, and things

> happening here after 9-11 scare me a lot, because so much

> resemblance. During the WW2 in Japan, there were a lot of flag

> waving, calling people " unpatriotic " , and women who lost their

> husbands and sons in battles had to pretend like they felt honor

> even though crying to death inside. So, I think it's reasonable that

> some Americans fear that Bush might do something very destructive

> for this country. It may not to be true, but better careful than

> sorry.

 

I understand why liberals dislike Bush .. and why conservatives do like

him .. and I am happy to see many of our congressmen and senators vote

across political lines from time to time .. something I never see here

in Turkey. Whether its better to be careful than sorry might also be

phrased differently .. sometimes its better to do something wrong than

it is to do nothing at all. The correctness of strategic decisions is

rarely known until after the fact. Of course, then it takes a long time

to straighten out the mess and calm the critics and get the show back on

the road with a different set of rules.

 

For example .. IF .. Hitler had not been allowed to persecute the Jews

it is likely they would have had no sympathy due to world guilt and that

there would be no Israel today .. and no conflict between the Israelis

and Palestinians. Islamic Extremists use the Palestinians as a tool of

their propaganda .. so it could follow that there would be no problems

with Islamic Terrorists. But I reckon that's convoluted logic. ;-)

 

>>> " They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet, " Moore told

>>>Britain's Mirror newspaper recently, referring to his fellow citizens

>>>as a whole. And that's not all Moore had to say about his brother Yanks

>>>across the pond. " We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We

>>>don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our

>>>stupidity is embarrassing. "

>

> Again, I don't like extremes, and this Moore's statement is too much.

 

Yep .. that it is. He is extremely presumptuous .. thinking only he has

the correct answers. And moreso when he states he must do " something "

about Blair and the UK. The UK can handle their own problems and make

their own decisions and they will do so at the ballot box.

 

> I agree that some Americans don't know much about the world, but

> people from other coutries don't know about it either, including

> Japanese people. There are stupid people everywhere, and most people

> think " I'm not one of them " . " stupid " is very subjective word, too.

> I look very stupid to a math teacher, but not for my husband

> (LOL).

 

History and geography are certainly missing from the American system of

education .. and to a great degree this is not by choice but rather by

necessity because as time passes technology becomes more important while

at the same time history becomes more complex and geography changes in

some respects. Folks in Lower Slobvia can quickly pinpoint America on a

map but many educated Americans need a few minutes to find Turkey .. and

many think of Turks as covered folks riding camels in the sand. ;-)

 

>>Why did the world allow Pol Pot and his blood-thirsty minions to turn

>>Cambodia into the " Killing Fields " and slaughter over a million

>>people? History it is but was it because they were brown colored,

>>non Christian folks who ran around half naked, were ignorant and

>>didn't bath often?

>

> I'm not a white or Christian, so I don't know about the issue.

 

But you do know about it because America's attitude toward Japanese

during WW II was different than it was toward Germans. And the point I

made above was that one doesn't have to find that passage in the Bible

to see the necessity for caring for other people .. IF .. they have

morals and belief in any form of religion.

 

> I agree with you that these things in the world are awful and we

> need to do something about them. But also, I have to think that

> going to war will always kill many innocent civilians. It was always

> women and kids who suffered the most in Japan during the WW2. When

> the U.S. dropped A-bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was teenage

> girls who were working at the factories. Think about that if it was

> your daughter. Also, people are still dying by leukimia or other

> cancer now because of the bomb.

 

No question about that .. same happened in the bombings of London and

Warsaw and many other cities during WW II.

 

> I've seen the photos of the Iraq kids, whose limbs are missing, a dead

> girl whose head was blown off by the U.S. cruster bomb, and kids whose

> lymph nodes are swolen as big as melons because of the depleted uranium

> bombs. These photos don't make it to the U.S. media, but to some

> Japanese media.

 

Photos are a great tool of propaganda .. they can be used to portray

what one wishes to portray based on the selection to be presented to the

public. And there is no question that ALL of those photos are true

depictions of the reality and horror of war .. but not necessarily true

that EVERY photo depicts a casualty that resulted from US actions ..

photos are also taken of unfortunate casualties following terrorist

bombings in Iraq and there is no shortage of them.

 

True also is the fact that humane actions rarely make it to the US

media. All media likes sensationalism but American media understands

where to balance that against what the average American sitting down to

dinner would consider to be over the line. That's not the case here in

Turkey where the media is totally out of control.

 

> Because of this, I need to be fully convinced that a war is the only

> solution for a certain issue. And I haven't been convinced that this

> war was a must. Did the government try all the means to solve the

> conflict with Saddam before it's decision to go to the war? Or was

> it a little bit too quick or wreckless?

 

History will answer that question .. and some folks will deny the facts

regardless of what they turn out to be.

 

> How about the issue that CIA might have been leaking its codes to

> Iranian spies? Were they realistic about how much it would cost and

> how long?

 

That is about Ahmet Chalabi .. not a member of the CIA.

 

> Was it realistic in terms of balancing budget between foreign policy and

> domestic policy? How about international aids? Was it a good idea to

> ignore the UN, or would've been better if the government could

> convince the UN before the war? Why didn't the president tell the

> world more facts and details to convince us?

 

History will answer that question too .. and I think the United Nations

will be a part of history before too long .. even before the EU. ;-)

 

When a group of shepherds band together to form a cooperative designed

to ensure that any attempts by lions to take their sheep will result in

a coordinated effort by all to stop the lions .. its a good agreement IF

they don't allow the lions to vote too. ;-)

 

If they do allow the lions to vote then odds are few actions will be

taken against the lions .. and the smaller shepherds will turn to the

one that has the most hands on board and ask them to step in because

they have already been taking unilateral action to protect their sheep.

 

It doesn't take long for folks to realize that the original co-op gave

as much protection to the lions as it did to the shepherds.

 

It MIGHT be possible to tame the lions by allowing them to associate

with the shepherds .. but if we try to teach the lion to lay down with

the lamb its going to be tough and the lessons will continue for a long

time. We hope that we don't run out of Training Aids (lambs) before the

lions learn their lessons well. ;-)

 

> I'm not challenging you. I totally agree that the U.S. should help

> other nations if it could. But there should be a lot of questions to

> ask before any action is taken, because even for the U.S., resources

> are limited. And the U.S. has its own problems here. I believe a

> govenment should try deplomacy as much as possible, even it needs a

> lot of patience and skills. And a war should be the last, and the

> most carefully considered option.

 

No question that initiation of war shows a failure of diplomatic effort

but sometimes that happens .. and the more complex the diplomatic effort

becomes the more likely it is to fail .. especially when we have lions

voting in the process.

 

>>And a few minutes ago I saw Jonathan Mann quote statistics showing

>>that a Saturday poll showed that 58% of Americans believe Bush lied

>>about the connection between Saddam and al-Quaeda .. but just now I

>>looked at the CNN poll at http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/ and I

>>see the following:

>

>>Do you think President Bush lied about Osama's ties to Iraq?

>>No, Bush had no reason to lie. ............... 62%

>>Yes, he just wanted to go to war. ................ 38%

>>But like Goebbels was once quoted as saying, " If we repeat things

>>enough times they will be believed and they will become facts. "

>

> The poll at the website is not the same poll he is talking about.

 

That is obvious. But it is a CNN poll. Its one where you must say Yes

or No .. not one where folks call in from the opposite coast just to say

something like .. I don't know. ;-)

 

We can count on seeing swing polls from day to day cause it doesn't take

a heckuva lot to influence those folks who are riding the fence.

 

>>Seems to me that the health, welfare, life, liberty and property of

>>humans oughta be the top priority for nations and people ..

>>especially those who see their mission in life as being do-gooders

>>and saviors of mankind. Seems to me that one doesn't have to be

>>Christian to recognize a real need to be " Our Brother's Keeper " ..

>

> I agree with you totally.

 

Thankee ma'am. :-)

 

> I guess it's a difference in method for achieving this. Some people

> believe that domestic happiness is basic foundation for world peace.

 

In an ideal world this is true. Its also true that domestic happiness

is a basic foundation for security at home .. against common criminals.

 

But since man has appeared on Earth there has been war and crime.

 

> Some people believe that each nation has to achieve their own

> freedom based on their cultural background with international aids

> (maybe it's what UN is saying on African issues).

 

Maybe that was what they were saying .. but if that was their intent

then there is no need for a world body .. only individual nations making

their own decisions and using their people up if that's a part of their

national policy.

 

> In the past, Christian missionaries caused not only good but also destructions

> of local cultures, and some of those nations are still in chaos.

 

Its true that remnants of the Inquisition still remain in South America.

But some of the problems in the Middle East can be tracked to

arbitrary boundaries established following WW I. Same for Africa ..

when lines are cut using a compass rather than following the traditional

tribal boundaries .. which were rivers and mountain ranges, etc., we are

creating future problems .. dividing traditional tribal possessions. We

can also lay some of the historical blame at the feet of Colonial powers

but that too is history that can't be changed and man has moved onward

and recognizes the errors made back then.

 

>>And while I'm riding this negative colored camel .. I'll point out

>>what many of you already know .. that there are many groups out and

>>about and in harm's way that are truly do-gooders .. unsung

>>heroes .. out not for the clam of fame but because they are truly

>>devoted to helping their fellow man. One of the finest is Doctors

>>Without Borders! I've had the pleasure and honor of working with

>>them on three different occasions and can attest to their

>>professionalism, dedication to duty and to mankind.

>

> I admire their effort also.

 

Yep .. volunteers all. The last time I worked with them was August 1999

when we had the earthquake here (22,000 + deaths). I arrived in Golcuk

(the epicenter) the morning after the quake .. MSF had already set up

field surgical tents .. this was even before the Turkish Red Crescent

had arrived on the scene. http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/about/

 

> Just one more thought. Maybe because I'm a woman, and would like to

> have a couple of kids soon, I don't like to think that my kids might

> have to go to a war in the future. Or they might have to go to any

> risky area. I know you may think that I'm selfish. Maybe it's my

> mother instinct. If I can't protect my kids, who can? I will protect

> my kids like a mom cat does. I won't let anyone take my kids for any

> reason.

 

Nothing selfish about mother instincts. That is, unless the kids want

to go against the wishes of the mother .. as I did. ;-)

 

> Plus, it's my religious belief that one shouldn't kill. So, I won't

> let my kids to handle any weapons. I'm not trying to force or convince

> anyone, but I want to protect my right for freedom of religion.

 

I totally support that .. and want to see that attitude be a norm in the

entire world .. but I'll not live long enough to see it.

 

> You are allowed to omit the phrase " I'll fight for the government "

> when you become the U.S. citizen if it's against your religious belief.

 

True .. but the words are .. support and " defend " .. not fight. And it

says the Constitution and laws of the United States .. not government.

 

The part that is optional is " .. that I will bear arms on behalf of the

United States when required by law .. " but lemme tell you .. if a draft

is ever initiated (odds are 99.99% against it happening) that oath will

just mean that those who are conscientious objectors can be given non

combat support roles .. in hospitals and such.

http://bensguide.gpo.gov/9-12/citizenship/oath.html

 

> Also, I heard someone saying on radio that if the government starts

> draft again, now they have to draft girls also. I don't think anyone

> likes the idea of sending own daughter to a war.

 

Like I said .. a draft is highly unlikely. The military certainly

doesn't want one. But the " have to draft girls " part is probably true

cause if not folks on both sides of the political spectrum will holler

discrimination. Equality means just that. ;-)

 

> Anyway......I agree with you on helping the world to become a better

> place, and it's a great thought. I just disagree with the current

> president on the methods. I think most people have good will and

> concerned about the world and the U.S., so it's sad to see that the

> people are so divided and the nation looks like it's two nations in

> one right now. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

Matters not which president we support or not cause we can vote our

minds in November. As for the nation being divided .. its not any

moreso than in previous elections .. and we are two nations when it

comes to political beliefs .. and it must be this way if we are to

continue to be critters who have freedom of choice. ;-)

 

Many or most of the elections in US history were pretty close split

popular votes .. which are not the determining factor .. but a great

exception was the first one in 1789 when George Washington ran against

five or six candidates and received 85.2% of the vote.

 

Since 1960 some close calls on Popular votes are:

 

1960 .. Kennedy .. 49.72% ... Nixon ...... 49.55%

1968 .. Nixon .... 43.42% ... Humphrey ... 42.72%

1976 .. Carter ... 50.08% ... Ford ....... 48.02%

 

Of course .. the last election Bush received fewer Popular votes but

more Electoral votes.

 

Bush ....... 47.87% Popular ..... 50.37% Electoral

Gore ....... 48.38% Popular ..... 49.44% Electoral

 

That is the way the system works .. whether we like it or not .. and

this is not the only case like this .. there have been a half dozen

others. There are folks on both sides yelling " foul " so we recognize

that and I can't see an advantage of starting a poll here so folks can

tell us which side they were on. ;-)

 

Three of the landslides (over 10% difference in Popular votes) in

history were votes for presidents that will not go down in history as

outstanding leaders ..

 

1984 .. Bush ..... 58.77% ... Mondale ..... 40.56%

1972 .. Nixon .... 60.67% ... McGovern .... 37.52%

1964 .. Johnson .. 61.05% ... Goldwater ... 38.47%

 

And two were for presidents that history will treat kindly.

 

1980 .. Reagan .. 50.75% ... Carter ...... 41.01%

1956 .. Ike ..... 57.37% ... Stevenson ... 41.97%

1952 .. Ike ..... 55.18% ... Stevenson ... 44.33%

 

Click here http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/ and we can see

that the point spread was rarely wide .. and American voters can be

fickle critters when they want to be. ;-)

 

> Thanks, Butch for sharing your thoughts. It's very important for me

> to read and listen to other people's opinions without falling into

> political jargons. I have had many people who got mad because I

> asked so many questions and they labeled me as a liberal or whatever.

 

Welcome you are. I have no problems with liberals or conservatives ..

though I prefer those who don't stray too far from either side of the

center. ;-)

 

> They are not used to have different opinions, and seems threatened

> by disagreement.

 

Yep .. you should have seen the battle of the Intellectuals on America

Pulse (or some such) yesterday. War was going to break out right there

in the studio. ;-)

 

> But I believe that everyone has different opinions and listening to

> others is the best way to understand the issues.

 

You are 100% right .. I strongly dislike hanging around folks who think

as I do cause I can learn nothing from them. I also avoid extremists on

both ends .. and we have many here .. Nationalists, Leftists, Religious

Fundamentalists. Then we have the idiots like Michael Moore. ;-)

 

> Take care!

> Akiko

 

And you. :-)

 

> P.S.

> Oh, by the way, I got my first order from you a couple weeks ago,

> and I love your rose hydrosol!!! I'd like to order some rose petal

> jam and oregano oils, but we are in midst of house selling & moving

> chaos. How long do you think you will have the jam? Can I order

> after we move, maybe in September or later?

 

Good it is and happy I am and you can certainly get some in September as

there will be more made in late August. Have a smooth move.

 

And keep smiling. :-) Butch

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch,

 

 

, Butch Owen <butchbsi@s...>

wrote:

> We have no major Networks now that are Conservative .. have some

idiot talk show hosts who are but ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN are liberal

as could be .. the up and coming (passed CNN I read) Fox News leans

a bit right of center but while in the USA I watch them and I think

they do a good job of making a fairly balanced pitch. When I hear

the CNN reporters describing events I remember my training in

Psychological Warfare. ;-)

 

I have my Master's in media, and I learned that no media is free

from ideology and manipulation. I wish schools here taught how to

watch TV's or read newspaper with critical eyes.

It's also, relative, I guess. Japanese news networks are very

liberal, and always critical of what the government is doing. They

are aware that they are the ones to stop the government to become

like WW2 Japanese government. I think it's great. They are not owned

by any big coorporation, a media company is a media company. We had

a prime minister who had a kept woman, and he had to resign in three

month after he became PM. So it was different to me that Clinton

didn't have to resign...... Anyway, because I'm used to the Japanese

media, the media here looks more conservative to me. I'm not

criticizing the media here, though. Negative news get very tiresome

sometimes.

 

> I think Moore is a leftist who has chosen to ride that horse for

his own personal gain .. and he is an opportunist. And IF .. Bush

loses the election it will be interesting to see how folks like

Moore continue to make a living.

 

A lot of film makers are opportunists, I think. Also, the right wing

talk radio hosts are. It's all up to the audience, which information

to believe and what to think about it. Just because a conservative

hate talk radio host says " nuke Iraq " doesn't mean that we should,

right? I don't think the " F911 " would make a convert, but will

energize liberals, and it'll be very interesting to see what will

happen in November. Well, I don't have a right to vote......

I think Moore can make a living for rest of his life just on the

earnings from this movie.

 

 

>Its an old joke in the Army and in politics that when faults are

found they are there due to the efforts of the previous commander or

administration .. in some cases this is true but facts are often

twisted beyond recognition. I presented a history of the buildup of

Islamic Terrorist organizations in another post .. historians will

show that Islamic Jihad against the West began before most readers

of this list were born .. and built up steam after the demise of the

Soviet Union. American foreign policy has changed little over my

lifetime ..

> its just the manner of execution of policy that varies.

 

Hmmm...I'm not so familiar with this issue. Did it start because of

mid East conflict with Israel? Or before, colonization of mid East?

 

> But extreme propaganda serves no purpose unless one

> is at war and wants to use it as a tool of war.

 

This is exactly what scares me, war time propaganda. I've heard a

lot of horror story about it, in Japan and Germany.

 

> Not gonna comment on that much .. except to say I have used such

words myself .. and will likely do so again. ;-)

 

It depends on who are " us " and " them " . I'm with Americans, not with

terrorists, off course. But I'm not with the Americans who commited

hate crimes after 9-11, or those who ride the tide and express their

racism or descriminating religious beliefs and think that they are

also " us " . I'm not with the Americans who think " peace " is

unpatriotic word, and very eager to " nuke Iraq " . I felt

uncomfortable and unsafe when Bush said " this is second Pearl

Harbor " . I've met people who told me in person or through email very

clear racist messages, and they think that interracial marriage is

sin.

 

What do you think about the factor that Bush is a born-again and how

the rapture issue affecting the current issues?

 

> Sane people prefer peace to violence .. but they recognize a need

to protect themselves too.

 

Yes, I do accept a war for deffence. But not provoking others to

attack us is also very important.

 

> Sure .. as an individual .. but if we are president of a major

country we find that riding the fence or taking no side is not

acceptable to either side. We then gotta make it clear that we are

fer or agin.

 

Actually, I agree with you. I think I was afraid of people who

misused the words for their personal purposes.

 

> No question about that .. but we must be careful to do our best to

make such criticism as accurate and balanced as possible. We must

do all we can to stay up with current events and history when we

play Who Shot John.

 

Agree.

 

> Whether its better to be careful than sorry might also be phrased

differently .. sometimes its better to do something wrong than it is

to do nothing at all. The correctness of strategic decisions is

rarely known until after the fact. Of course, then it takes a long

time to straighten out the mess and calm the critics and get the

show back on the road with a different set of rules.

 

I do agree with your point here. What I don't like is, there were

some pressure to silence liberals by calling them as unpatriotic or

anti Americans. I think everyone should be able to express their

feelings and opinions without being labeled as such, because it's

very important time for all Americans. Then let the current go

wherever it needs to go. Remember, one guy was arrested in a NY

mall, because he was wearing a T-shirt saying " give peace a chance " ?

 

> And moreso when he states he must do " something "

> about Blair and the UK. The UK can handle their own problems and

make their own decisions and they will do so at the ballot box.

 

Sounds like that's exactly an American British don't like.

 

> History and geography are certainly missing from the American

system of education ..

 

True. I found it's interesting, that people ask me if life in Japan

is slower and relaxing, and my family must be super rich because

they can afford to come here for vacations. (and those Americans

drive Toyota and listening to Sony stereo). If I said I like here

(even in Los Angeles) because it's more relaxed (means that I can be

more casual here), then they look offended. My husband hated Tokyo

because he had to walk very fast there. But Americans who have

lived in Japan say that California is like a third world country.

 

> > I'm not a white or Christian, so I don't know about the issue.

>

> But you do know about it because America's attitude toward Japanese

> during WW II was different than it was toward Germans. And the

point I made above was that one doesn't have to find that passage in

the Bible to see the necessity for caring for other people .. IF ..

they have morals and belief in any form of religion.

 

Actually, I know that. It's very sad to think about those Japanese

Americans, who are in fact American citizens. Also, thinking about

if A-bombs were really needed. One of my husband's relatives refused

to come to our wedding because I'm not a white and Christian, and I

don't observe " Christian morals " .

 

> photos are also taken of unfortunate casualties following terrorist

> bombings in Iraq and there is no shortage of them.

 

I know the terrorism acts are awful, too. I was depressed when Nick

Berg was beheaded. I didn't watch the video, and glad I didn't.

 

> True also is the fact that humane actions rarely make it to the US

> media.

 

We need more positive news. I would like to see those people in

media.

 

> That is about Ahmet Chalabi .. not a member of the CIA.

 

That's what I meant. Chalabi was giving CIA some information about

Iraq and he might have been connected to Iran. That scares me.

 

> Nothing selfish about mother instincts. That is, unless the kids

want to go against the wishes of the mother .. as I did. ;-)

 

Well, if I will have a son and he wants to go, I will have to let

him go.

 

> I totally support that .. and want to see that attitude be a norm

in the entire world .. but I'll not live long enough to see it.

 

Thanks. Well, let's hope it'll happen......

 

> True .. but the words are .. support and " defend " .. not fight.

And it says the Constitution and laws of the United States .. not

government. The part that is optional is " .. that I will bear arms

on behalf of the United States when required by law .. " but lemme

tell you .. if a draft is ever initiated (odds are 99.99% against it

happening) that oath will just mean that those who are conscientious

objectors can be given non combat support roles .. in hospitals and

such.

 

Sorry, I didn't look it up when I quoted it. But I know what you

mean.

 

> Like I said .. a draft is highly unlikely. The military certainly

> doesn't want one. But the " have to draft girls " part is probably

true cause if not folks on both sides of the political spectrum will

holler discrimination. Equality means just that. ;-)

 

Yes, I hope it won't happen. I personally don't like women going to

war. But it's just my opinion.

 

> As for the nation being divided .. its not any

> moreso than in previous elections .. and we are two nations when it

> comes to political beliefs .. and it must be this way if we are to

> continue to be critters who have freedom of choice. ;-)

 

I'm not saying we should have the same opinions. What I meant was, I

hope people can have totally different opinions and still be friends

and respect each other. To do that, we need to do something about

the hate factor, but the deffinition of " hate " is also a matter of

opinions. Also, I don't mind that elections go with almost 50-50 all

the time. What I mind is, the amount of pressure I feel right now to

take sides with a person, not with individual issues. It's more like

love and hate now than agree and disagree. I agree with Bush on some

issues and agree with Kerry with some issues. And it's fine. But

some people seem like they don't question about any issue and just

follow a person all the way.

 

In Japan, we still have Socialist party and Communist party. And

it's fine. They have their own function as nay sayers, and they stop

the government to go too extreme. We don't want the communist party

to become a majority, but I can't imagine Japanese pariament without

them. We also have some ultra right wing candidates for every

election, and listening to their speech is very entertaining. People

talk about politics freely and rarely get mad at each other.

I think it was like this here before 9-11, being able to talk about

politics freely.

 

 

> Welcome you are. I have no problems with liberals or

conservatives .. though I prefer those who don't stray too far from

either side of the

> center. ;-)

 

I agree.

 

> You are 100% right .. I strongly dislike hanging around folks who

think as I do cause I can learn nothing from them. I also avoid

extremists on both ends .. and we have many here .. Nationalists,

Leftists, Religious Fundamentalists. Then we have the idiots like

Michael Moore. ;-)

 

Yes, the center is the way to go. And thinking about each issue

rationally.

 

>

> Good it is and happy I am and you can certainly get some in

September as there will be more made in late August. Have a smooth

move.

 

Glad to hear that. Thank you! I'll let you know as soon as we

settle.

 

Take care again!

 

Akiko

[Guest guest]

Butch wrote:

<<

 

American foreign policy has changed little over my

lifetime .>>

 

Butch, we are about the same age..

Remember when we had to hate the Russians, now we try to be Buddies with them?

Hate the Chinese, because there where too many of them?

Now we need them all to fight terrorism which has become a more dangerous foe

than communism?

I find it weird that we where so scared of communism, when it folded so readily,

just getting them turned on to capitalism and the religious issue surfaces like

in ancient times.

Maybe Osama is just putting up a smokescreen. since his aim is to conquer Saudi

Arabia, maybe he does just want to have the oil and than party...

Even Germany still has a communist party, so does Italy, so does Spain.

I just don't think they want to live like in Russia or the East block countries

had to live.They are just poor souls still caught up in the ideology..

C-M