OT: Global Terrorism ** Was: Conflict - There is Another Side to This

[Guest guest]

Hey CM,

 

> Butch,

> I know we both study history.

 

True .. but we might analyze it differently. Even expert historians do

this as a matter of routine.

 

> To me the crusades in ancient times where as much a terrorist act as we

> see the fanatic Muslim's practizing it now, in many ways still their

> answer to it..

 

The Crusades and the Inquisition were based on religious zeal and

economic reasons. The Crusades were out and out warfare .. between

armies .. with lines drawn and tactics and such. The Inquisition was an

exercise of power by a militant Pope.

 

The Crusades are one of the many weak excuses Islamic Terrorists use to

continue to slaughter .. and if its a good excuse then we should be in

fear that someone might decide to attack the German or Japanese or North

Vietnamese due to being treated badly by them during wars. But those

were wars between nation states .. regardless of Who Shot John.

 

And if there is justification for the above then all the Jews and

Christians should go after the nearest Catholic.

 

> Our wise writers of the constitution did the right thing by separating

> Church and State. Bush's open stand for his religion is admirable but

> just feeds the fires of fanatic muslims to shout 'it's another crusade'..

 

Another limp excuse Terrorists hang onto .. and you can bet your bippy

that the Founding Fathers never imagined anything like what is happening

today. Additionally, they did NOT separate Church and State .. nowhere

is that laid out. There is, however, a requirement that Congress can

pass no law that FAVORS one religion over another .. that is what is

often interpreted as being separation of Church and State.

 

As for the religious zeal of any president .. I believe that from ANY

religious belief comes morals and I prefer it to those who have none.

The Islamic people have high moral standards .. but Islamic Terrorists

disregard those teachings.

 

> Whenever there is a David and Goliath situation the masses will root

> for the underdog.

 

The masses are not rooting for the Islamic Terrorists .. only a few in

of Islamic population is .. I live in an Islamic country and have served

in many others and I can GAR-AN-DAMN-TEE you that you'll be hard pressed

to find folks here who support such things. They see it as an insult to

Islam.

 

> Bottomline the Bully looks like he has power, but it's short lived and

> no real resolution comes forward.

 

America is NOT a bully. But I won't argue that. We have kicked butt

more than one time but those whose butts we kicked deserved it .. and we

saved a lot of butts too .. I point out the two World Wars.

 

> The Greek, Roman Empire, Ottoman, British Empire got nowhere at the end.

 

They were a part of the experiment .. just as we might be.

 

> Ideology set aside, this whole mess is a powergrab for oil, no matter in

> what religious disguise it comes.

 

Power grab is a turn of words intended to show negative action. We are

stupid to not protect those oil reserves. Even now we hear peeing and

moaning in the USA because of gas prices .. same went down in the early

1970s .. and it is the security of the nation that leaders must pay

attention to.

 

There was a time when the power grab was for control of sea lanes. All

nations want to be able to survive .. that is what its all about.

 

> Osama wants it, to control the world, we want it to keep our oil hungry

> way of life going.

 

Oil hungry is true .. but again a twist on words to make it appear as if

we are doing something wrong NOW .. we are not. How we got here is too

long a story for this list but the point is .. we are there now and it

is the here and now we must operate in.

 

> Antidote is to become self reliant on energy.

 

I agree .. drill in the Arctic. ;-)

 

> I am convinced this country can do it, we just have to shift our

> policies that support this hunger for oil based energies 100%.

 

Easier said than done .. politically and economically it is a monster

and its recognized that phase in and out are needed .. but its not going

to happen now .. and it is NOT the reason for the Islamic Terrorists

doing what they do now .. they want an Islamic World!

 

> Years ago, I fought our small neighborhood nuke in court in Washington,

> when they wanted to extend their fuel storage.

> This plant (now shut down), only contributed 2.5 % to the companies

> power grid. We figured that if 333.333.00 people in Michigan would just

> shut down one light bulb, we would not have needed that plant at all.

 

CM .. folks fighting nuclear power plants is not going to decrease out

dependence of fossil fuels .. and getting 10 folks to do something is

hard .. 333 + million is comical.

 

> The waste in this country in regard to energy is pitiful and all efforts

> that got started under Carter, got squelched under Reagan and Bush sen.

> who supported Hussein full blast,, giving him the weapons of WMD and

> going to bed with the Saudis to keep our oil supply going, coddling us

> into a belief that all is wonderful and easy going.

 

No comment .. as it has nothing to do with the subject above.

 

> If we would have gone all stop out 20 years ago in developing

> independent renewable energy sources, we would not be in the fiasco

> that is now pretty much our doing.

 

All stop means development of nuclear power too .. and the dawg would

have caught the rabbit IF he had not stopped to take a crap. ;-) But

this has nothing to do with Terrorism.

 

Someday .. long after all the folks on this list are under snakes .. the

Islamic Threat will be history. Those of the civilized nations that are

alive then might have to contend with China .. or maybe .. an organized

Africa. History shows that nothing is permanent.

 

> My heart goes out to those brave soldiers that have to fight this war,

> they are canon fodder for an administration that went amok.

 

No comment .. you can vote in the elections like I will.

 

> I am afraid that this war will escalate into situations we have never

> dreamed of, never mind are totally unprepared for.

 

Every major war does this .. and this one has been heating up since I

was a yonker .. the escalation is NOW .. and tomorrow.

 

> Just as we where unprepared to 'run' Iraq, after the invasion.

 

CM .. it is not now nor was it ever the intent to " run " Iraq. And that

too has nothing to do with Terrorism.

 

> The ball is rolling and we can't stop it anymore.

 

Thank God for little blessings. ;-)

 

> It isn't going to matter much who is going to be President, but I know I

> rather have one that is respected in the whole world instead of having

> isolated us.

 

Not important to me what the world thinks of the US President .. only

important what the Americans think of him. That's my take on that! If

the Americans don't like him/her they can move his/her butt out in four

years .. but I am not willing to allow other nations to make policy

decisions that affect Americans or American National Security .. and no

country in Europe is willing to do this either .. they think just as I

do in that regard .. as they should.

 

> All the goodwill we had after 9/11 has gone down the drain and that I

> find sad.

 

We had no good will after 9/11 .. we had shared sympathy because we

(along with some 80 + other nations) had citizens killed on 9/11.

 

I do not find it sad .. not at all. But this thread has turned a long

way from Global Terrorism .. I should probably change the subject line

above to reflect that .. dissatisfaction with the current President.

 

Again .. I feel like the points I make are disregarded .. replies in

opposition are not relative to the subject and totally disregard the

points I made .. my points are either valid .. or invalid.

 

> Stay safe,

> C-M

 

Thanks .. that's the point in combating crime and terrorists .. and I

wish the same for you and all peace loving, human rights respecting

folks in the world.

 

I hope this subject dies now because we don't need to see it turn into a

battle that is going to be decided in November anyway. Butch

[Guest guest]

The good will we had was from one human to another - it wasn't for our country

as a whole.

 

While many did not condone the cheers that came from those countries who

held/hold Osama as a hero for striking us there are many who can understand why

the action came about.

 

Dale

-

All the goodwill we had after 9/11 has gone down the drain and that I

find sad.