Was TT/Diabetes/leg ulcers - Now AB properties of EOs - Martin

[Guest guest]

><aromamedical-2@l...> wrote:

> As I said in my earlier mail, the treatments we used for leg ulcers

> were very much individual and so it is difficult to generalise. The

> most important thing for me was the hospital lab made cultures of

>the infections so I knew what bugs I was dealing with. Then I could

>look up the necessary oils in my database to zap those specific bugs.

 

<snip>

 

Martin,

 

You have hit on something that concerns me very much when we speak of

certain EO's as " anti-bacterial " on newsgroups. It appears that YOU

know, but most people don't, that bacteria are not just one generic

germ and cannot be treated as one.

 

~~~~~

For the lay people:

 

Bacteria are classified in several different ways:

 

* Shape - rods, coccoi(round) spirochetes (spiral shaped one such as

lepto or helicobacter)

 

* Staining differences - some bacteria, when died with a certain

stain, appear blue or pink - gram negative or gram positive)

 

* Spore forming or non-sporforming

 

* Motile, non-motile

 

* Selection on differnt kind of growth medium (beta hemolytic,

lactose forming etc.)

 

* Aerobic, anaerobic. (faculative and non facultative)

 

Etc. This is a simplistic list dragged up from my memory of micro long

ago - my notes are all in storage - but you get the picture.

 

 

So then these different type of bacteria like to live in differnt

places and cause differnt diseases and illnesses. A few examples are:

 

* Staphlococcus aureas(GR+ cocci, areobic) - likes to live on skin

 

* Clostridium tetani, tetnus (spore-forming, GM+ rod, anaerobe) live

for LLLOOOONNNGGGG time in the soil, very hard to kill.

 

* Clostridium perfingens - normal flora of colon and vagina - can

cause gangrene in infected wounds

 

* Salmonella - normal flora for animals - bad for our guts

 

* And the big bad Escheria Coli, (GM- rod) of which there are so many

sub-species they go by number (E. coli 0157 etc.) can cause anything

from nothing, to a UTI, to deadly hemmorrhagic gastroenteritis, some

are harmless normal flora for us.

 

Anti-biotics and anti-bacterials do different things, some are

bacteriocidal (they KILL bacteria,) some are bacteriostatic (inhibit

the growth of bacteria.)

 

Some groups of antibiotics select for rods, and some are better for cocci

 

Some select for several kinds of bacteria.

 

Some do different things to the bacteria themselves - for example, you

never want to use penicillin in a case of botulism, or it will burst

the bacterial cells and release " endotoxin " - which is nothing more

than part of the lipid layer of the bacterial cell wall that is

extremely toxic and can cause concurrent problem such as septic shock

etc.

 

Metronidazole and clindamycin are good for motile bacteria and

pathogens in the gut, or things like gardinerella, and kinds of anaerobes.

 

Then there is the whole issue of dosage and concentration, an

important factor of AB therapy.

 

Disenfectants also go by these rules to a certain extent - phenols are

effective against some kinds of bacteria, quats against others - good

old bleach against just about anything. All at different levels of

concentration.

 

~~~

 

Again this is a short, simple overview for the people not familiar

with microbiology/pharmacology. But I wanted to express that the

concept of an " anti-bacterial " is a very complicated thing. There are

MANY factors invovlved, including a seemingly infinite variety of

pathogens to deal with. When Drs. PAs or Vets are confronted with an

infectious condition, this is all part of what they (hopefully)

condsider before they hand out certain anti-biotics, and why they

often like to do things like culture and sensitivity tests on simple

things like UTI's or ear infections - so they can KNOW for SURE that

they type of bacteria they are dealing with, and what type of AB is

the most effective. This helps avoid problems with bacterial

resistance and is good medicine.

 

So, this is my long-winded way of saying that I think it might be

overly simplistic to say that a certain EO is " anti-bacterial. " What

KIND of bacteria is it effective against? Is it just a bacteria

inhibitor, or is it bacteriocidal?? Does it work against rods, cocci,

GM +/-? Anaerobes or aerobes? Because it DOES matter, and Martin

hinted at this in his previous post about treating leg ulcers. I'm

not sure when people on newsgroups speak of using EOs for

anti-bacterial purposes, they are aware of the many facets of

anti-biotic therapy - just that it's " natural " therefor better than

what the Dr. gives you.

 

Further, given that certain EOs are anti-bacterial, I think it is

naive to think that using EOs as an alternative to AB therapy will

somehow avoid the issue of bacterial resistance. Natural or not,

without the information regarding what bacteria certain EOs are

effective against - you run a very possible risk of creating the very

situation we have with commerical AB's right now - resistance.

 

To assume " " X " EO is effective against bacteria, " without knowing

which ones, how, and at what dosage may cause us problems down the

road.

 

Martin, is their a chart or research available on what oils are

effective against which type of bacteria?

 

Thanks.

 

JenB

[Guest guest]

On Jun 13, 2004, at 6:07 PM, nsorcel wrote:

>

> Bacteria are classified in several different ways:

>

> * Shape - rods, coccoi(round) spirochetes (spiral shaped one such as

> lepto or helicobacter)

>

> * Staining differences - some bacteria, when died with a certain

> stain, appear blue or pink - gram negative or gram positive)

>

> * Spore forming or non-sporforming

>

> * Motile, non-motile

>

> * Selection on differnt kind of growth medium (beta hemolytic,

> lactose forming etc.)

>

> * Aerobic, anaerobic. (faculative and non facultative)

>

> Etc. This is a simplistic list dragged up from my memory of micro long

> ago - my notes are all in storage - but you get the picture.

>

>

> So then these different type of bacteria like to live in differnt

> places and cause differnt diseases and illnesses.  A few examples are:

>

> * Staphlococcus aureas(GR+ cocci, areobic) - likes to live on skin

>

> * Clostridium tetani, tetnus (spore-forming, GM+ rod, anaerobe) live

> for LLLOOOONNNGGGG time in the soil, very hard to kill.

>

> * Clostridium perfingens - normal flora of colon and vagina - can

> cause gangrene in infected wounds

>

> * Salmonella - normal flora for animals - bad for our guts

>

> * And the big bad Escheria Coli, (GM- rod) of which there are so many

> sub-species they go by number (E. coli 0157 etc.) can cause anything

> from nothing, to a UTI, to deadly hemmorrhagic gastroenteritis,  some

> are harmless normal flora for us.

>

> Anti-biotics and anti-bacterials do different things, some are

> bacteriocidal (they KILL bacteria,) some are bacteriostatic (inhibit

> the growth of bacteria.)

>

> Some groups of antibiotics select for rods, and some are better for

> cocci

>

> Some select for several kinds of bacteria.

>

> Some do different things to the bacteria themselves - for example, you

> never want to use penicillin in a case of botulism, or it will burst

> the bacterial cells and release " endotoxin " - which is nothing more

> than part of the lipid layer of the bacterial cell wall that is

> extremely toxic and can cause concurrent problem such as septic shock

> etc. 

>

> Metronidazole and clindamycin are good for motile bacteria and

> pathogens in the gut, or things like gardinerella, and kinds of

> anaerobes.

>

> Then there is the whole issue of dosage and concentration, an

> important factor of AB therapy.

>

> Disenfectants also go by these rules to a certain extent - phenols are

> effective against some kinds of bacteria, quats against others - good

> old bleach against just about anything.  All at different levels of

> concentration.

>

> ~~~

>

> Again this is a short, simple overview for the people not familiar

> with microbiology/pharmacology.  But I wanted to express that the

> concept of an " anti-bacterial " is a very complicated thing. There are

> MANY factors invovlved, including a seemingly infinite variety of

> pathogens to deal with.  When Drs. PAs or Vets are confronted with an

> infectious condition, this is all part of what they (hopefully)

> condsider before they hand out certain anti-biotics, and why they

> often like to do things like culture and sensitivity tests on simple

> things like UTI's or ear infections - so they can KNOW for SURE that

> they type of bacteria they are dealing with, and what type of AB is

> the most effective.  This helps avoid problems with bacterial

> resistance and is good medicine. 

>

> So, this is my long-winded way of saying that I think it might be

> overly simplistic to say that a certain EO is " anti-bacterial. "   What

> KIND of bacteria is it effective against?  Is it just a bacteria

> inhibitor, or is it bacteriocidal??  Does it work against rods, cocci,

> GM +/-?  Anaerobes or aerobes? Because it DOES matter, and Martin

> hinted at this in his previous post about treating leg ulcers.   I'm

> not sure when people on newsgroups speak of using EOs for

> anti-bacterial purposes, they are aware of the many facets of

> anti-biotic therapy - just that it's " natural " therefor better than

> what the Dr. gives you.

>

> Further, given that certain EOs are anti-bacterial, I think it is

> naive to think that using EOs as an alternative to AB therapy will

> somehow avoid the issue of bacterial resistance.  Natural or not,

> without the information regarding what bacteria certain EOs are

> effective against - you run a very possible risk of creating the very

> situation we have with commerical AB's right now - resistance.

>

> To assume " " X " EO is effective against bacteria, " without knowing

> which ones, how, and at what dosage may cause us problems down the

>

Jen,

This was very interesting and thanks for taking the time to write it

for us.

 

Sandi Thompson, R.A. Certified Integrative Aromatherapist

Force of Nature Aromatherapy

Custom Blends for Your Well Being

www.forceofnaturearomatherapy.com