OT: Things Can Always be Worse... and D-Day

[Guest guest]

Being German born, but by now a long time American, this day does have

significance for me.

I am very grateful for all the brave allied souls that liberated my

country, for I can't imagine that I could have made it under Hitler,

my personality just does not lend itself to being part of a 'herd'. I

ask too many questions..

It meant, that I was part of an occupied country, and saw first hand the

devastation of a war. The displacement camps, the hungry people, my

class in school had over half of their fathers either missing or dead.

I have a picture of my Dad where he wears the uniform , also one of my

mother in uniform. They belonged, like all people in Germany to the

party and honestly I don't know what they really did during the war. One

just never asked those questions when I grew up. No one did.

10 years ago, after my stepmother died, I was given a small box, it

contained medals my father had won in the war. I had no idea.

Also a letter, that confirmed how he tried to get out of being conscripted.

With the medals was a button from an US uniform and a little

enameled russian flag.

Always wondered what was behind that, but my father died when I was 24

and no one else is alive to ask.

He also spend two years as a POW in an American camp on the Rhine.

My grandfather lost all of his businesses to the British bombs and the

Russians taking over his east German affiliates..

Right now the Germans are furious about Schroeder not visiting the

German cemetery in Normandy.. Seems one honors the dead , most who where

suckered into that war against their will too. Not the uniform of the

Dictator they wore. But these days we have delicate situations when it

comes to the French and Germans...

When I grew up there was no resentment over those things, people just

got on with life.

But the war had an effect on me in other ways. For when I was old

enough to realize the what and why, I became strongly involved to find

out about politics, to make sure history would not repeat itself.

It seems by the time people wake up to the fact that their country is

run by a Dictator, like in Germany or Iraq, their opportunities of

getting rid of such a person seems impossible. I also honor the brave

people who tried.

One thing I am sure of. The 'bully system' is only a temporarily fix.

It also created more resentment, which leads to more wars.

Looks to me the Israeli's and Palestine's will kill each other until no

one is left standing.

The time to fight over religious issues should have stopped after the

last crusade.

I can shake hands with the bombardier that destroyed the beautiful

gothic churches in my hometown.

He did what he was told to do. But that bombing had little to do with

destroying Nazi's. or that my hometown, or those gothic churches hid

them or that my hometown was much involved with the war effort. It had

to do with the British being angry at German bombers destroying their

old buildings.

So, what are we left with? Ruins...collateral damage..

Most of my generation of Germans, who where born at the end of the war,

have a collective guilty feeling over what our parents did, if they

where involved in nasty business during the war or not, just by

association. It's still not cool, to be a proud German, Hitler left his

signature, for how long ?

So I settle for just being a proud human being.

When I became and America citizen, I had to swear to defend this country

and so I will, with a pitchfork right here in Michigan, should the

Canadians dare to attack..

Yes, we need to go after the people that made 9/11 the disaster that it

is. But IMHO this country is spreading too much ill feeling in the world

as to how we go about it. Alienation creates resentment, resentment

makes a fertile ground for fanatics.

We had the good will of the whole world behind us at 9/11 , where has

it gone ?

Today, I mourn all the victims of the cruelty that comes with war.

Peace brings prosperity to many, war reaps death and prosperity to

Halliburton's stockholders. Conquering works only short term, look at

the Romans, the Ottoman empire, the Hun's , all won with brute power,

all gone...

America is a great country, we have a great constitution, but as much as

we love it, we can't impose our way of life on the rest of the world.

Just set a good example of how many people from many backgrounds and

religions can live in peace. To me that's the example to give ., not the

bombs.

C-M

[Guest guest]

Hi CM,

Your letter is long and heartwarming. Like you I believe what you say here.

Have a Great day.

Nancy

 

The time to fight over religious issues should have stopped after

the last crusade.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Wow, Christa. That is very interesting. I am a bit of a history buff. ;-) Can

you imagine if that war had had the media coverage the wars today have?!

 

Tracy

*Some people only dream of angels; we held one in our arms.*

Remembering Jacob March 8 - 9, 1996

Our Angel: http://sids-network.org/fp/jacob.htm

-

Christa Maria

Saturday, June 05, 2004 7:59 AM

Re: OT: Things Can Always be Worse... and D-Day

 

 

Being German born, but by now a long time American, this day does have

significance for me.

I am very grateful for all the brave allied souls that liberated my

country, for I can't imagine that I could have made it under Hitler,

my personality just does not lend itself to being part of a 'herd'. I

ask too many questions..

It meant, that I was part of an occupied country, and saw first hand the

devastation of a war. The displacement camps, the hungry people, my

class in school had over half of their fathers either missing or dead.

I have a picture of my Dad where he wears the uniform , also one of my

mother in uniform. They belonged, like all people in Germany to the

party and honestly I don't know what they really did during the war. One

just never asked those questions when I grew up. No one did.

10 years ago, after my stepmother died, I was given a small box, it

contained medals my father had won in the war. I had no idea.

Also a letter, that confirmed how he tried to get out of being conscripted.

With the medals was a button from an US uniform and a little

enameled russian flag.

Always wondered what was behind that, but my father died when I was 24

and no one else is alive to ask.

He also spend two years as a POW in an American camp on the Rhine.

My grandfather lost all of his businesses to the British bombs and the

Russians taking over his east German affiliates..

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you...

C-M

[Guest guest]

Tracy,

If we would have had the coverage that we have now, most likely would

not have had Hitler be that powerful or concentration camps.

Unless we had a Murdoch who would have sided with Goebbels..

C-M

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

 

> Hi Butch

> I reckon these are pretty wise words...

 

Thanks .. we have a saying down home that, " Even a blind hawg will find

an acorn now and then. " Then some of the more " mature " folks added to

that, " The older the blind hawg the more acorns it can find. " Which has

not a thing to do with wisdom .. just experience. ;-)

 

>>My recommendations would be to shop around for new businesses .. and

>>take a day off .. and not blame yourself .. and be glad the pups are

>>born .. and know that kids will get well anyway as kids generally do ..

>>and realize that no matter how bad things get they can always get worse

>>and likely they are already worse for some other folks .. then you take

>>the squeezings from a pint of good Kentucky Bourbon, pour it over some

>>ice cubes and splash in a bit of spring water (branch water if you can

>>find it) and then take a day off .. and smile. :-) Butch

>

> Specially these... which remind me to start each day with a silent word

> or two of thanks...

 

Yep .. seeing another sunrise has a special significance we can realize

if we stop and think on it a second or three. :-)

 

>>realize that no matter how bad things get they can always get worse

>>and likely they are already worse for some other folks

>

> France is in fevered preparation for the D-Day 60 year commemoration.

> We have non-stop programming of talkshows, debates, movies (Private

> Ryan, Longest Day, etc etc) on tv and interviews on the radio and in

> the papers (including one with Pres. Bush).

> (No French bashing comments please...it's not the moment...thanks)

 

I understand your sensitivity toward French Bashing .. but its not a

common thing on this list. We must also remember to honor that young

whipper snapping revolutionary French dude for whom a half dozen or so

cities and many counties are named in America .. long winded names them

thar Frenchies had .. twas Marie Jean Paul Joseph Roche Yves Gilbert du

Motier, the Marquis de Lafayette. ;-)

 

> The tone is reconciliation and remembrance. There are Germans and

> Italians standing alongside the Allies...this bothers some, and moves

> others to tears. Left or right, revisionist, apologist, historian,

> bleeding heart, veterans...the stage is full. Our ears are

> overwhelmed...but mostly our eyes are moist in humility and respect.

> War is hell - nothing truer ever said, it seems to me. The massacre

> on those beaches is hard to imagine, even with Technicolor and Tom

> Hanks.

 

Yep .. War is Hell fer'shur .. and those who have smelled it and felt it

understand this in a way that those who send us to war can never begin

to understand. Unfortunately, as long as there are tyrants here and

there who believe that its their right to use their people in any manner

they want to further their own agenda there will be a need for soldiers

to go in harm's way. We have not yet evolved to a point that holding

hands and singing " We are the World " is gonna stop the bad guys.

 

As for Germans and Italians standing beside the Allies .. I understand

how that might affect some of the old soldiers who lived that period ..

and I honor their thoughts because I am not yet ready to stand beside a

North Vietnamese soldier or a Somali gang member. I admit that its an

emotional position .. not a logical one. And .. it will pass when the

old warriors pass. Such emotions were common in the distant past and

will be again. America has engaged in shooting wars with France, Spain,

Mexico, Germany, Italy, Japan, North Korea, Communist China, Vietnam and

Somalia .. and a few other brush fire wars. There are none alive now

who remember the first three listed and in time there will be none who

remember the others listed .. though other names will fill the list

until the world settles itself .. and then we will likely be defending

against the Zenocrapperolians from some galaxy not yet discovered. ;-)

 

I find the camaraderie displayed annually at Gallipoli to be very heart

warming .. between the New Zealanders and Australians who tried to take

the heights and the then Turkish defenders. That was a campaign of

monumental proportion and one in which the soldiers who were killing

each other also respected each other and even slipped off at night to

trade jam for cigarettes and such. Now at that spot on the Turkish

coast is a Turkish monument dedicated to the bravery of the Anzacs ..

and a promise to the Kiwi and Aussie mothers who lost sons there that

their sons are also considered to be Heroic Sons of Turkey.

 

As for the Russians .. I will stand beside them anytime .. they are a

civilized people who were more paranoid than dangerous .. and they were

victims themselves. There might come a time that America stands beside

them in combat .. if the ChiCom leaders can't their act together. They

have the opportunity to do this .. but they might not decide to do it.

 

> I may be American, living in France and could feel some pride at the

> honors being bestowed on the veterans...but I feel pretty insignificant

> compared to those teenagers who waded up to the beach to be mowed down

> - I can't imagine what kind of courage it would take to walk into

> certain death.

 

Courage is common among all soldiers .. it comes from training and a

need to defend one's own life and the lives of fellow soldiers .. there

is no time to dwell on fear even if its there .. its the basic reason

why soldiers fight instead of hiding. This applies to enemies as well.

 

This too is something understood by most soldiers because in most cases

they have more in common with their uniformed enemies than they do with

their own civilian politicians.

 

> All that to say, that at the moment I never read a simpler truer

> thought that is just so apt... things can always get worse.

 

And .. they are worse today for many people. We Western folks can pee

and moan because everything is not hunky-dory and we don't have as many

Blue Bird days as we wish we had .. and that's not so bad because we

have paid our fare and had our tickets punched .. and now we have become

accustomed to seeing difficulties and sacrifice in a totally different

light than do some in the Middle East, South America, Asia and Africa.

Complaining about small matters is a luxury we can afford. And it is

one we have earned the right to enjoy because we have worked our way up

the ladder of Man's Heirachy of Needs. :-)

 

> I give thanks for this day.

> Anne

 

Same here Anne. Like many others, I am ahead of the game so it matters

not a lot what path I find myself on because I have trod many paths that

were far worse without becoming lost. And .. when folks ask me how old

I am, I tell them, " Not as old as I used to be! " ;-)

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch