Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

[Guest guest]

Hello all

 

I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have some

merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what suceess

have you seen if any?

 

Regards

 

Shane Sarawan

 

 

----------

South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

 

For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm

[Guest guest]

Hi Shane,

 

I've seen the Virginia Doran protocol used with great effect. It really can

work wonders.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this

e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or

shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication.

Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender

is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

drsarawan

14 June 2007 07:10

Chinese Medicine

Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

 

 

Hello all

 

I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have some

merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what suceess

have you seen if any?

 

Regards

 

Shane Sarawan

 

----------

South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

-------------------------

For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.

<http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm> co.za/dd.pwm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, it works well, though I think her rational for the lift and tack needling

she does is weak. As part of the procedure she will roll the skin and pin it,

once from above the eyes towards the hairline and once from the side of the

cheek obliquely up towards the temporoparietal area. After it is lifted it is

tacked into place, the people I know who do her stuff tell me this is to adjust

the skin as per a face lift, but the needle locations would also stimulate the

frontalis muscle, and the rear portions of the temporalis muscle and the

posterior auriculars, which all have an action in making the eyes look bright

and interested (pulling the brows and corners of the eyes up and out and perking

the ears as a more vestigial function) which has the effect of revealing more of

the eye and making it look bigger, which is usually thought of as more

attractive.

 

Regular needling of wrinkles is also quite effective at softening them, but must

be done a number of times for substantial effect. Doran's method is very needle

intensive, and her's, like a number of other protocols, uses the grain of wheat

needles, which are slippery customers. Typically treatments will run 20-30 small

needles. There are less intensive methods, mostly involving how you choose where

to needle and what constitutes an " important " wrinkle. Pretty much any 1/2 " 36

and up guage will do the trick, and they are easier to handle and remove. I like

korean hand needles with an " injector " as you can load a needle and then fish

for the point with the tip of the injector, especially if your looking for

sensitive areas around scars.

 

Needling motor points and trigger points in small muscles will have the fastest

impact, as it shifts the tone of the musculature very quickly and the results

last longer than one would think (sometimes a week or longer). This works really

well along the jaw line, I think there's a MP for the platysma in there

somewhere, but it will change the contour of the neck substantially in one

treatment.

 

As with any structural change, if the patient doesn't adjust lifestyle they will

not achieve lasting results, but 8-15 treatments can soften and change just

about anybody for a while. I usually recommend facial exercises that tone the

facial muscles and give the patient more proprioception as to what they are

doing with their face.

 

Obviously the results are not as stark as cosmetic surgery, but you also don't

end up looking like a circus freak, and, unlike botox, you can still emote.

 

Take care,

 

Par

 

 

 

 

-

Attilio D'Alberto

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, June 14, 2007 11:08 AM

RE: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

 

Hi Shane,

 

I've seen the Virginia Doran protocol used with great effect. It really can

work wonders.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this

e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or

shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication.

Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender

is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

drsarawan

14 June 2007 07:10

Chinese Medicine

Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

Hello all

 

I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have some

merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what suceess

have you seen if any?

 

Regards

 

Shane Sarawan

 

----------

South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

-------------------------

For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.

<http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm> co.za/dd.pwm

 

[Guest guest]

Not to Mr. Scott personall - More a general comment:

 

One could also help the patient come to terms with their age/looks or help

eliminate smoking, bad eating habbits, getting of medication and getting in

excersice - all those " not so easy solutions " are also available and they

are very effective in dealing with wrinkles, bags under the eyes, dry, scaly

skin and other signs and symptoms of near any def/exc

condition..................

 

Best regards,

 

Thomas Sorensen

 

 

 

2007/6/14, Par Scott <parufus:

>

> Yes, it works well, though I think her rational for the lift and tack

> needling she does is weak. As part of the procedure she will roll the skin

> and pin it, once from above the eyes towards the hairline and once from the

> side of the cheek obliquely up towards the temporoparietal area. After it is

> lifted it is tacked into place, the people I know who do her stuff tell me

> this is to adjust the skin as per a face lift, but the needle locations

> would also stimulate the frontalis muscle, and the rear portions of the

> temporalis muscle and the posterior auriculars, which all have an action in

> making the eyes look bright and interested (pulling the brows and corners of

> the eyes up and out and perking the ears as a more vestigial function) which

> has the effect of revealing more of the eye and making it look bigger, which

> is usually thought of as more attractive.

>

> Regular needling of wrinkles is also quite effective at softening them,

> but must be done a number of times for substantial effect. Doran's method is

> very needle intensive, and her's, like a number of other protocols, uses the

> grain of wheat needles, which are slippery customers. Typically treatments

> will run 20-30 small needles. There are less intensive methods, mostly

> involving how you choose where to needle and what constitutes an " important "

> wrinkle. Pretty much any 1/2 " 36 and up guage will do the trick, and they

> are easier to handle and remove. I like korean hand needles with an

> " injector " as you can load a needle and then fish for the point with the tip

> of the injector, especially if your looking for sensitive areas around

> scars.

>

> Needling motor points and trigger points in small muscles will have the

> fastest impact, as it shifts the tone of the musculature very quickly and

> the results last longer than one would think (sometimes a week or longer).

> This works really well along the jaw line, I think there's a MP for the

> platysma in there somewhere, but it will change the contour of the neck

> substantially in one treatment.

>

> As with any structural change, if the patient doesn't adjust lifestyle

> they will not achieve lasting results, but 8-15 treatments can soften and

> change just about anybody for a while. I usually recommend facial exercises

> that tone the facial muscles and give the patient more proprioception as to

> what they are doing with their face.

>

> Obviously the results are not as stark as cosmetic surgery, but you also

> don't end up looking like a circus freak, and, unlike botox, you can still

> emote.

>

> Take care,

>

> Par

>

> -

> Attilio D'Alberto

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, June 14, 2007 11:08 AM

> RE: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

>

> Hi Shane,

>

> I've seen the Virginia Doran protocol used with great effect. It really

> can

> work wonders.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Attilio D'Alberto

> Doctor of (Beijing, China)

> BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

> Editor

> Times

> +44 (0) 1189 612512

> enquiries <enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com>

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

>

> This message contains privileged and confidential information intended

> only

> for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

> disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although

> this

> e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

> communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

> this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall

> or

> shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

> otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic

> communication.

> Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The

> sender

> is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

> Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

>

>

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

>

[Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\

e%40>]

> On Behalf Of

> drsarawan <drsarawan%40webmail.co.za>

> 14 June 2007 07:10

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

>

> Hello all

>

> I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have some

> merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what suceess

> have you seen if any?

>

> Regards

>

> Shane Sarawan

>

> ----------

> South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

> -------------------------

> For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.

> <http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm> co.za/dd.pwm

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is an intestine article by an author who's Acupuncturist used the Doran

Protocol.

 

_http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/health/3415.html_

(http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/health/3415.html)

 

 

All the best,

 

Chris

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/15/2007 12:54:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

parufus writes:

 

I agree. I actually spent a lot of time thinking about ethics when I started

doing the facial work. There are some cynical ways of looking at it: people

will happily pay money and invest time and energy in looking different, while

they will not take care of their health with nearly the same fervor.

However, once you get people in for superficial things you can take care of

deeper

stuff at the same time, in fact, if you want to do a good job with the

cosmetic you have to clear up internal issues. To that end I thought it more or

less reasonable and ethical to offer the services.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The opening statement in this last post is amazing to me. The question that

comes to my mind is who are any of us to have any judgment at all about the

personal choices of another?

 

Who are we to determine what any individual needs for their own life?

 

Who are any of us to determine what is superficial and what is not for

another?

 

Who are we to think we can know what is or is not on the path of a

persons awakening?

 

I think it would be wise to spend less time worrying about another

persons choice for their life and more time how to support them in their

choices.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thomas,

 

I agree. I actually spent a lot of time thinking about ethics when I started

doing the facial work. There are some cynical ways of looking at it: people will

happily pay money and invest time and energy in looking different, while they

will not take care of their health with nearly the same fervor. However, once

you get people in for superficial things you can take care of deeper stuff at

the same time, in fact, if you want to do a good job with the cosmetic you have

to clear up internal issues. To that end I thought it more or less reasonable

and ethical to offer the services.

 

On a more spiritual note, I've found working with the face to be a very

interesting access to peoples emotional aspect, and getting people to actually

feel what they are doing with their faces, and spend some time observing can

actually get them to radically transform their mood, affect, and their

communication skills and relationships with others. People carry a lot of

emotional armor in their faces, and the millimeters of movement that mark the

difference between beauty and frumpy/grumpy/depressed and miserable are very few

most of the time. Break somebody out of their state for a while and the world at

large will reinforce their new state, friends and family will often not

though... they often value consistency over happiness. I agree, the cult of

youth should not be encouraged, but feeling well and being able to express that

clearly is something everybody should be able to do, and often-times people will

not reorient towards more healthful behavior unless they shift their attitude

first.

 

For all of that cult-of-youth people are quite willing to lower their

expectations for their body quite quickly, and to my mind that is wrong and a

more sure sign of " aging " than any particular feature. The fact remains that the

human body has a tremendous capacity for healing, growth and development at

virtually any age, and as a society we have suppressed our vitality in order to

not make people who have given up on themselves more emotionally comfortable in

their resignation. In large part this is due to Western medicine's inability to

cope with much in the way of chronic disease, and their financial stake in

managing disease as opposed to curing it. MD's always chant about bodies getting

older and not being able to do what they used to, you'll gain a little weight,

that crappy knee won't every heal, that eyesight is just going to get worse...

Keeping patients in a more or less dependant state makes them the gatekeepers of

life, and telling people that it's only going to get worse is their insurance

policy. One of the hardest jobs we have is getting people to acknowledge the

possibility of being well when they have accommodated and become comfortable

with all that negative thinking and marginal reduction in their physicality.

Getting well seems like more work than it is worth and it turns into some sort

of realpolitik of the body, discounting as immaterial the possibility of all the

physical joy and potential benefits it could bring.

 

To my mind, giving people the joy of their body is the best that I can do, and

often if people get the emotional feedback from a change in appearance it can

leverage a tremendous amount of energy towards their wellness.

 

Par Scott

 

 

-

Thomas Sørensen

Chinese Medicine

Friday, June 15, 2007 1:32 AM

Re: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

 

Not to Mr. Scott personall - More a general comment:

 

One could also help the patient come to terms with their age/looks or help

eliminate smoking, bad eating habbits, getting of medication and getting in

excersice - all those " not so easy solutions " are also available and they

are very effective in dealing with wrinkles, bags under the eyes, dry, scaly

skin and other signs and symptoms of near any def/exc

condition..................

 

Best regards,

 

Thomas Sorensen

 

2007/6/14, Par Scott <parufus:

>

> Yes, it works well, though I think her rational for the lift and tack

> needling she does is weak. As part of the procedure she will roll the skin

> and pin it, once from above the eyes towards the hairline and once from the

> side of the cheek obliquely up towards the temporoparietal area. After it is

> lifted it is tacked into place, the people I know who do her stuff tell me

> this is to adjust the skin as per a face lift, but the needle locations

> would also stimulate the frontalis muscle, and the rear portions of the

> temporalis muscle and the posterior auriculars, which all have an action in

> making the eyes look bright and interested (pulling the brows and corners of

> the eyes up and out and perking the ears as a more vestigial function) which

> has the effect of revealing more of the eye and making it look bigger, which

> is usually thought of as more attractive.

>

> Regular needling of wrinkles is also quite effective at softening them,

> but must be done a number of times for substantial effect. Doran's method is

> very needle intensive, and her's, like a number of other protocols, uses the

> grain of wheat needles, which are slippery customers. Typically treatments

> will run 20-30 small needles. There are less intensive methods, mostly

> involving how you choose where to needle and what constitutes an " important "

> wrinkle. Pretty much any 1/2 " 36 and up guage will do the trick, and they

> are easier to handle and remove. I like korean hand needles with an

> " injector " as you can load a needle and then fish for the point with the tip

> of the injector, especially if your looking for sensitive areas around

> scars.

>

> Needling motor points and trigger points in small muscles will have the

> fastest impact, as it shifts the tone of the musculature very quickly and

> the results last longer than one would think (sometimes a week or longer).

> This works really well along the jaw line, I think there's a MP for the

> platysma in there somewhere, but it will change the contour of the neck

> substantially in one treatment.

>

> As with any structural change, if the patient doesn't adjust lifestyle

> they will not achieve lasting results, but 8-15 treatments can soften and

> change just about anybody for a while. I usually recommend facial exercises

> that tone the facial muscles and give the patient more proprioception as to

> what they are doing with their face.

>

> Obviously the results are not as stark as cosmetic surgery, but you also

> don't end up looking like a circus freak, and, unlike botox, you can still

> emote.

>

> Take care,

>

> Par

>

> -

> Attilio D'Alberto

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, June 14, 2007 11:08 AM

> RE: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

>

> Hi Shane,

>

> I've seen the Virginia Doran protocol used with great effect. It really

> can

> work wonders.

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Attilio D'Alberto

> Doctor of (Beijing, China)

> BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

> Editor

> Times

> +44 (0) 1189 612512

> enquiries <enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com>

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

>

> This message contains privileged and confidential information intended

> only

> for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

> disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although

> this

> e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

> communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

> this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall

> or

> shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

> otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic

> communication.

> Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The

> sender

> is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

> Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

>

>

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

>

[Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\

e%40>]

> On Behalf Of

> drsarawan <drsarawan%40webmail.co.za>

> 14 June 2007 07:10

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

>

> Hello all

>

> I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have some

> merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what suceess

> have you seen if any?

>

> Regards

>

> Shane Sarawan

>

> ----------

> South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

> -------------------------

> For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.

> <http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm> co.za/dd.pwm

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Shane.

I have used V Doran method....

I initially encorporated this Tx to patients of mine with severe

neuralgia / bells palsy which was causing drooping eyelids etc. I

found this to be helpful in restoring the face appearence (in

addition to usual reasons for acu)

 

I then attended a seminar by Lillian Bridges on face reading. I found

that this was so helpful when used as part of a face

rejuvenation/revitalisation plan. She basically teaches of how the

lines etc are formed by emotions, the face is in 2 halves yin and

yang, and the side we show to the world is inevitabley less marked

(right, yin, passive, how wish to be percieved) than our private

personal side where our true emotions come out. (left, yang, how we

truly are)

 

So, if a patient presents with a deep line vertically between the

eyebrows, this could be treated according to Doran by needling along

the wrinkle and also across it in 2 directions, so as to relax the

muscle. Bridges teaches that this is a sign of repressed liver Qi,

most often a determination not to become like a parent. This has

borne true for me in many conversations

" i don't mind being like my mum, i love her lots. ...i think she has

made terrible choices with men, i would never allow that kind of

thing to happen to me ...but think she is lovely " note deep line,,, "

oh yeah see what u mean.. "

 

when analizing why the lines are present, and how some lines are

actually positive, such as the destiny or Fa Ling lines (naso-labial)

patients can come to understand how working through emotions can have

inpact on their appearence and make results of any FRA more effective

and lasting.

 

- also include constitutional pts, food therapy, some herbs, qi gong,

yoga etc

 

face reading in chinese med Lillian bridges isbn 0-443-07315-5

comprehensive handbook for trad C M face rejuvenation Ping Zhang isbn

1-59975-666-8 is ok but promotional for her creams. some face massage

techniques etc which were missed when i did Doran seminar.

 

Christine

Chinese Medicine , drsarawan

wrote:

>

> Hello all

>

> I have heard of acupuncture facelift protocols which seem to have

some

> merit. Has anyone incorporated this into their practise, and what

suceess

> have you seen if any?

>

> Regards

>

> Shane Sarawan

>

>

> ----------

> South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za

>

> For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe it is nonsense. Maybe it is something you don't have a reference for

yet. I cannot say. However, In either case, why judge it? Especially, out

loud in a public forum.

 

Chris

 

 

In a message dated 6/17/2007 5:25:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

attiliodalberto writes:

 

I don't buy that,

sounds like new age nonsense to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Christine,

 

So, if a patient presents with a deep line vertically between the

eyebrows, this could be treated according to Doran by needling along

the wrinkle and also across it in 2 directions, so as to relax the

muscle. Bridges teaches that this is a sign of repressed liver Qi,

most often a determination not to become like a parent. This has

borne true for me in many conversations

" i don't mind being like my mum, i love her lots. ...i think she has

made terrible choices with men, i would never allow that kind of

thing to happen to me ...but think she is lovely " note deep line,,, "

oh yeah see what u mean.. "

 

face reading in chinese med Lillian bridges isbn 0-443-07315-5

comprehensive handbook for trad C M face rejuvenation Ping Zhang isbn

1-59975-666-8 is ok but promotional for her creams. some face massage

techniques etc which were missed when i did Doran seminar.

 

I agree that deep vertical lines between the eyebrows relates to Liver Qi

problems, but in relation to not becoming our parents? I don't buy that,

sounds like new age nonsense to me.

 

Here's a link to the Lillian Bridges book:

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/product/129/168/face_reading_in_chinese_

medicine

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this

e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or

shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication.

Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender

is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

 

 

 

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId

=24994/stime=1182063831/nc1=4659943/nc2=4659942/nc3=4025370>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Attilio,

 

I am suggesting that calling another's views " nonsense " , may be

considered confrontational, rude or belittling. That is stepping over the

bounds of

straight disagreement. Disagree all you want, but I would encourage you to

do it without attempting to shame another.

 

Chris

 

In a message dated 6/17/2007 7:42:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

attiliodalberto writes:

 

 

 

 

The purpose of a forum such as this is to discuss. Discussion means agreeing

and not agreeing. If I don't agree with something then I will say so. I'm

not in the habit of riding along with anything that's said. You can do that

if you wish.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

_enquiries@chinesemeenquiries@chenq_

(enquiries)

<_http://www.chinesemhttp://www.chhttp_

(http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/) > www.chinesemedicine www.c

<_http://www.chinesemhttp://www.chhttp://wwwhttp://ww_

(http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php) >

www.chinesemedicinewww.chineswww.chinesemwww.chin

 

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-----Original Message-----

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine )

[_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine ) ] On Behalf Of

_Musiclear_ (Musiclear)

17 June 2007 12:28

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine )

Re: Re: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

Maybe it is nonsense. Maybe it is something you don't have a reference for

yet. I cannot say. However, In either case, why judge it? Especially, out

loud in a public forum.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The purpose of a forum such as this is to discuss. Discussion means agreeing

and not agreeing. If I don't agree with something then I will say so. I'm

not in the habit of riding along with anything that's said. You can do that

if you wish.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this

e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or

shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication.

Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender

is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Musiclear

17 June 2007 12:28

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it is nonsense. Maybe it is something you don't have a reference for

yet. I cannot say. However, In either case, why judge it? Especially, out

loud in a public forum.

 

Chris

 

 

In a message dated 6/17/2007 5:25:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

attiliodalberto@ <attiliodalberto%40.co.uk> .co.uk writes:

 

I don't buy that,

sounds like new age nonsense to me.

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.

<http://www.aol.com.> com.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio, hope you are well.

 

Bridges book, and her lectures are full of ancedotes and stories of

how she applies face reading to life and to help her

clients " recognise their issues " , making her a very interesting and

engaging speaker.

 

I possibly made a bad choice in choosing the example i did of how

face reading could be applied to FRA, (the conversation i quoted was

a chat with a friend about the subject, not during an acu

consultation) We all do face reading to a certain extent every day

with those we meet and in order to read emotions and gauge how others

are feeling, I think it is interesting to develop the skill and use

it to help give FRA clients a more positive opinion of their wrinkles

and lines.

 

It may not be the most high-brow academic aspect of chinese medicine-

much of the subject is light-hearted and fun - for example large

fleshy earlobes are said to represent old age luck (lots of money or

rich children to look after you in old age!)

 

I was wondering, If you belive the topic to be " new age nonsense " -

or traditional old nonsense, given its long history throughout

Chinese culture, diviniation, diagnosis, use in match-making etc, why

promote the book for sale in your bookshop??!!

 

 

kind regards

 

Christine

 

Chinese Medicine , " Attilio

D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote:

>

> Hi Christine,

>

> So, if a patient presents with a deep line vertically between the

> eyebrows, this could be treated according to Doran by needling

along

> the wrinkle and also across it in 2 directions, so as to relax the

> muscle. Bridges teaches that this is a sign of repressed liver Qi,

> most often a determination not to become like a parent. This has

> borne true for me in many conversations

> " i don't mind being like my mum, i love her lots. ...i think she

has

> made terrible choices with men, i would never allow that kind of

> thing to happen to me ...but think she is lovely " note deep

line,,, "

> oh yeah see what u mean.. "

>

> face reading in chinese med Lillian bridges isbn 0-443-07315-5

> comprehensive handbook for trad C M face rejuvenation Ping Zhang

isbn

> 1-59975-666-8 is ok but promotional for her creams. some face

massage

> techniques etc which were missed when i did Doran seminar.

>

> I agree that deep vertical lines between the eyebrows relates to

Liver Qi

> problems, but in relation to not becoming our parents? I don't buy

that,

> sounds like new age nonsense to me.

>

> Here's a link to the Lillian Bridges book:

>

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/product/129/168/face_reading_in_ch

inese_

> medicine

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Attilio D'Alberto

> Doctor of (Beijing, China)

> BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

> Editor

> Times

> +44 (0) 1189 612512

> enquiries

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

>

> This message contains privileged and confidential information

intended only

> for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you

must not

> disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender.

Although this

> e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

> communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty

that

> this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission

shall or

> shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

> otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic

communication.

> Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications.

The sender

> is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

> Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

>

>

>

>

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId

> =24994/stime=1182063831/nc1=4659943/nc2=4659942/nc3=4025370>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Big ear lobes represent a strong source of Kidney Qi and Essence. That's why

Buddha is always depicted with large ear lobes. Translating that into luck

is more of a lay term used by the general public which I believe is the same

as the lines between eye brows illustrating issues with our parents. It's

more lay terminology than TCM. From a TCM view, if we did how issues with

our parents, then it would probably manifest within our kidneys that house

our pre heaven Qi given to us from our parents.

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you must not

disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender. Although this

e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty that

this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission shall or

shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic communication.

Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications. The sender

is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of c_s_tcm

17 June 2007 16:32

Chinese Medicine

Re: Facelift Acupuncture: fact or fallacy?

 

 

 

Hi Attilio, hope you are well.

 

Bridges book, and her lectures are full of ancedotes and stories of

how she applies face reading to life and to help her

clients " recognise their issues " , making her a very interesting and

engaging speaker.

 

I possibly made a bad choice in choosing the example i did of how

face reading could be applied to FRA, (the conversation i quoted was

a chat with a friend about the subject, not during an acu

consultation) We all do face reading to a certain extent every day

with those we meet and in order to read emotions and gauge how others

are feeling, I think it is interesting to develop the skill and use

it to help give FRA clients a more positive opinion of their wrinkles

and lines.

 

It may not be the most high-brow academic aspect of chinese medicine-

much of the subject is light-hearted and fun - for example large

fleshy earlobes are said to represent old age luck (lots of money or

rich children to look after you in old age!)

 

I was wondering, If you belive the topic to be " new age nonsense " -

or traditional old nonsense, given its long history throughout

Chinese culture, diviniation, diagnosis, use in match-making etc, why

promote the book for sale in your bookshop??!!

 

kind regards

 

Christine

 

Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40>

Chinese_Medicine , " Attilio

D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote:

>

> Hi Christine,

>

> So, if a patient presents with a deep line vertically between the

> eyebrows, this could be treated according to Doran by needling

along

> the wrinkle and also across it in 2 directions, so as to relax the

> muscle. Bridges teaches that this is a sign of repressed liver Qi,

> most often a determination not to become like a parent. This has

> borne true for me in many conversations

> " i don't mind being like my mum, i love her lots. ...i think she

has

> made terrible choices with men, i would never allow that kind of

> thing to happen to me ...but think she is lovely " note deep

line,,, "

> oh yeah see what u mean.. "

>

> face reading in chinese med Lillian bridges isbn 0-443-07315-5

> comprehensive handbook for trad C M face rejuvenation Ping Zhang

isbn

> 1-59975-666-8 is ok but promotional for her creams. some face

massage

> techniques etc which were missed when i did Doran seminar.

>

> I agree that deep vertical lines between the eyebrows relates to

Liver Qi

> problems, but in relation to not becoming our parents? I don't buy

that,

> sounds like new age nonsense to me.

>

> Here's a link to the Lillian Bridges book:

>

http://www.chinesem

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/product/129/168/face_reading_in_ch>

edicinetimes.com/product/129/168/face_reading_in_ch

inese_

> medicine

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Attilio D'Alberto

> Doctor of (Beijing, China)

> BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

> Editor

> Times

> +44 (0) 1189 612512

> enquiries

> <http://www.chinesem <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/>

edicinetimes.com/>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> <http://www.chinesem <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

edicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

>

> This message contains privileged and confidential information

intended only

> for the addressee. If you have received this message in error you

must not

> disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify sender.

Although this

> e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, e-mail

> communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no warranty

that

> this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this transmission

shall or

> shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an offer or

> otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by electronic

communication.

> Your name and address may be stored to facilitate communications.

The sender

> is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, Wokingham,

> Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

>

>

>

>

>

> <http://geo.. <http://geo./serv?> com/serv?

s=97359714/grpId=9495977/grpspId=1705060814/msgId

> =24994/stime=1182063831/nc1=4659943/nc2=4659942/nc3=4025370>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AS a holistic practitioner...with some acquantance with

acupunture..and a bit experience with same, I would like some

information on this subject of acu facelifts, please? What would be

some of the points frquently used, if you please??

 

--DR. T.C.Halle

Los Angeles

>

>

>

************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>