Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Yehuda, I've always thought that a banana that's on the green side is better to treat diarrhea. It's more astringent from having more tannins. I found this related commentary: http:// www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/tcj/2000/aug/aug2000loomis.htm Then I found this: Bananas are of great value both in constipation and diarrhea as they normalize colon functions in the large intestine to absorb large amounts of water for proper bowel moments. Their usefulness in constipation is due to their richness in pectin, which is water- absorbent and this gives them a bulk producing ability. They also possess the ability to change the bacteria in the intestines from the harmful type of bacilli to the beneficial acidophyllus bacilli. This appears at http://manbir-online.com/nutrition/banana.htm where there is more nutritional stuff on it. That should sort of explain the wonder of bananas. Monkeys rule! Ann On Jun 12, 2007, at 5:33 AM, yehuda frischman wrote: > Dear friends, > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking > about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either > never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can > remember: > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the > west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT > (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the > opposite: bind? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Dear friends, Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? Yehuda Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Yehuda, My understanding is that when bananas are well ripe they help soften the stool, but when less than ripe they have the opposite effect. Best, Greg Chinese Medicine , yehuda frischman < wrote: > > Dear friends, > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 , yehuda frischman < wrote: > > Dear friends, > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? When I took Eastern Nutrition at PCOM, the same question came up. However, it became obvious that most of the food items that the Chinese teacher was talking about was not the same as the same named food items here in the USA. For instance, the teacher says beef, but what he really meant was Ox. A pear is an asian pear. Carrots are a much bigger thing that what we are used to. Just about every thing the teacher talked about was something different. I think the Chinese concept of a banana was also different than our bananas. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 A banana by any other name would taste as sweet. Couldn't resist... Ann On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:09 PM, bcataiji wrote: > , yehuda frischman > < wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the > west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT > (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: > bind? > > When I took Eastern Nutrition at PCOM, the same question came up. > However, it became obvious that most of the food items that the > Chinese teacher was talking about was not the same as the same named > food items here in the USA. > > For instance, the teacher says beef, but what he really meant was > Ox. A pear is an asian pear. Carrots are a much bigger thing that > what we are used to. Just about every thing the teacher talked > about was something different. I think the Chinese concept of a > banana was also different than our bananas. > > Brian C. Allen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 i would think, tho, that asian pears would just be a little less cool and moist than bartletts and other closer pears. larger carrots mite just be denser. . as bananas go, the other widespread variety in the world is frying bananas, plantains. they are good for hematuria, dysuria, promoting water flow, etc. they are good 4 sputum, but bananas 4 heat. i think its an over statement and great loss to write off the asian nutrition info for reasons, tho. lynn --- <bcataiji wrote: > , yehuda frischman > < wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the > west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT > (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: > bind? > > > When I took Eastern Nutrition at PCOM, the same question came up. > However, it became obvious that most of the food items that the > Chinese teacher was talking about was not the same as the same named > food items here in the USA. > > For instance, the teacher says beef, but what he really meant was > Ox. A pear is an asian pear. Carrots are a much bigger thing that > what we are used to. Just about every thing the teacher talked > about was something different. I think the Chinese concept of a > banana was also different than our bananas. > > Brian C. Allen > > J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac., 503.474.8876 Acupuncture House Calls! PO Box 14 Sheridan, OR 97378 ______________________________\ ___ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/newmail_html.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 From experience, very ripe bananas and some honey make a nice moist laxative (and a yummy treat!). -Steve On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:33 AM, yehuda frischman wrote: > Dear friends, > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking about > since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either never > asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches > that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and promote > bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that when > one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, > applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > Yehuda > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > what's on, when. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 ....also good to take with herbs (or medicines) that make the stomach bu shufu. a On Jun 12, 2007, at 8:19 PM, Stephen Bonzak wrote: > From experience, very ripe bananas and some honey make a nice moist > laxative (and a yummy treat!). > > -Steve > > On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:33 AM, yehuda frischman wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking about > > since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either never > > asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches > > that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and > promote > > bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that > when > > one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, > > applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > > what's on, when. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Ripe bananas can move the bowels, while not-quite-ripe bananas are still astringent and can bind the bowels. - Bill , yehuda frischman < wrote: > > Dear friends, > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I remember decades ago, Dick Gregory, that brilliant and idiocyncratic comedian/activist/vegetarian saying that bananas were not truly fruits until they had turned that brown color when most people throw them away as being over ripe. I don't know what science lay behind the claim but I still find it an interesting idea. Doug , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2 wrote: > > Ripe bananas can move the bowels, while not-quite-ripe bananas are > still astringent and can bind the bowels. > > - Bill > > > , yehuda frischman > <@> wrote: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 That is what I find with my 7 month-old infant, whose stools I am all too familiar with! The reason is that the ripening process involves increased enzymatic activity which converts relatively indigestible starches into the simple sugars glucose and fructose. I wonder if the inclusion of bananas in the " BRAT " diet is primarily to provide potassium that can be easily lost with diarrhea, rather than specifically to bind (which the rice alone would do prety well). Chinese Medicine , " Greg A. Livingston " <drlivingston wrote: > > Hi Yehuda, > > My understanding is that when bananas are well ripe they help soften > the stool, but when less than ripe they have the opposite effect. > > Best, > > Greg > > Chinese Medicine , yehuda frischman > <@> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking > about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either > never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west > is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also > rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > what's on, when. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Bananas are Cold and Sweet and acts on LI and the LU channels. Due to it's Cold and Sweet properties it is per definition Dampness forming and should as such not be eaten in too large quantities - especially by people in colder climates or with tendency to having a chilled Stomach. Eating the Banana raw will cool and strengthen the Large instestine in cases of constipation due to heat in the Large Intestine. Constipation due ie Yang def/Cold in the Lower Warmer is contraindicated. Eating the Banana raw in cases of very watery diahrrea du to Yang def/Cold-Dampness in the Lower Warmer will likely stop the diarrhea due to worsening the condition of Coldness and block the intestines. BRAT diet: Banana - Cold, Sweet, LI, LU Rice - Neutral to Warming, SP, ST Applesauce - Warm, Sweet, Sour, HT, LI, ST Toast - Warm, Bitter, Sweet, HT, KID, ST Interesting formula.... Best regards, Thomas Sorensen 2007/6/13, fiammasita <fiammasita: > > That is what I find with my 7 month-old infant, whose stools I am all > too familiar with! > The reason is that the ripening process involves increased enzymatic > activity which > converts relatively indigestible starches into the simple sugars glucose > and fructose. I > wonder if the inclusion of bananas in the " BRAT " diet is primarily to > provide potassium that > can be easily lost with diarrhea, rather than specifically to bind (which > the rice alone would > do prety well). > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Greg A. Livingston " > <drlivingston wrote: > > > > Hi Yehuda, > > > > My understanding is that when bananas are well ripe they help soften > > the stool, but when less than ripe they have the opposite effect. > > > > Best, > > > > Greg > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > yehuda frischman > > <@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking > > about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either > > never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can remember: > > > > > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west > > is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also > > rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > > what's on, when. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 BTW unripened banana will probably be bitter, slightly Sweet, Slightly cold and will probably act on the same channels as the ripenede banana ....still to be tested Best regards, Thomas Sorensen 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > Bananas are Cold and Sweet and acts on LI and the LU channels. > > Due to it's Cold and Sweet properties it is per definition Dampness > forming and should as such not be eaten in too large quantities - especially > by people in colder climates or with tendency to having a chilled Stomach. > > Eating the Banana raw will cool and strengthen the Large instestine in > cases of constipation due to heat in the Large Intestine. Constipation due > ie Yang def/Cold in the Lower Warmer is contraindicated. > > Eating the Banana raw in cases of very watery diahrrea du to Yang > def/Cold-Dampness in the Lower Warmer will likely stop the diarrhea due to > worsening the condition of Coldness and block the intestines. > > BRAT diet: > Banana - Cold, Sweet, LI, LU > Rice - Neutral to Warming, SP, ST > Applesauce - Warm, Sweet, Sour, HT, LI, ST > Toast - Warm, Bitter, Sweet, HT, KID, ST > > Interesting formula.... > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sorensen > > 2007/6/13, fiammasita <fiammasita: > > > > That is what I find with my 7 month-old infant, whose stools I am all > > too familiar with! > > The reason is that the ripening process involves increased enzymatic > > activity which > > converts relatively indigestible starches into the simple sugars glucose > > and fructose. I > > wonder if the inclusion of bananas in the " BRAT " diet is primarily to > > provide potassium that > > can be easily lost with diarrhea, rather than specifically to bind > > (which the rice alone would > > do prety well). > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > " Greg A. Livingston " > > <drlivingston wrote: > > > > > > Hi Yehuda, > > > > > > My understanding is that when bananas are well ripe they help soften > > > the stool, but when less than ripe they have the opposite effect. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > yehuda frischman > > > <@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking > > > about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either > > > never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can > > remember: > > > > > > > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > > > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > > > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west > > > is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also > > > rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > > > > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > > > what's on, when. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 They have always tasted somewhat bitter and astringent to me. Par Scott - Thomas Sørensen Chinese Medicine Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:55 AM Re: Re: Bananas? BTW unripened banana will probably be bitter, slightly Sweet, Slightly cold and will probably act on the same channels as the ripenede banana ....still to be tested Best regards, Thomas Sorensen 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > Bananas are Cold and Sweet and acts on LI and the LU channels. > > Due to it's Cold and Sweet properties it is per definition Dampness > forming and should as such not be eaten in too large quantities - especially > by people in colder climates or with tendency to having a chilled Stomach. > > Eating the Banana raw will cool and strengthen the Large instestine in > cases of constipation due to heat in the Large Intestine. Constipation due > ie Yang def/Cold in the Lower Warmer is contraindicated. > > Eating the Banana raw in cases of very watery diahrrea du to Yang > def/Cold-Dampness in the Lower Warmer will likely stop the diarrhea due to > worsening the condition of Coldness and block the intestines. > > BRAT diet: > Banana - Cold, Sweet, LI, LU > Rice - Neutral to Warming, SP, ST > Applesauce - Warm, Sweet, Sour, HT, LI, ST > Toast - Warm, Bitter, Sweet, HT, KID, ST > > Interesting formula.... > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sorensen > > 2007/6/13, fiammasita <fiammasita: > > > > That is what I find with my 7 month-old infant, whose stools I am all > > too familiar with! > > The reason is that the ripening process involves increased enzymatic > > activity which > > converts relatively indigestible starches into the simple sugars glucose > > and fructose. I > > wonder if the inclusion of bananas in the " BRAT " diet is primarily to > > provide potassium that > > can be easily lost with diarrhea, rather than specifically to bind > > (which the rice alone would > > do prety well). > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > " Greg A. Livingston " > > <drlivingston wrote: > > > > > > Hi Yehuda, > > > > > > My understanding is that when bananas are well ripe they help soften > > > the stool, but when less than ripe they have the opposite effect. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > yehuda frischman > > > <@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > Here's one of those obtuse questions that I have been thinking > > > about since I first took Chinese nutrition 7 years ago, but either > > > never asked or never received a satisfactory answer that I can > > remember: > > > > > > > > Why is it that every Chinese nutrition book I have ever seen > > > teaches that bananas, which are cold and sweet, treat constipation > > > and promote bowel movements, whereas " common wisdom " here in the west > > > is that when one has diarrhea, bananas are the " B " in the BRAT (also > > > rice, applesauce and toast) diet used to do just the opposite: bind? > > > > > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > > > what's on, when. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 We only eat rip bananas, particular during " the constipation time " , parents always said the best bananas are sesame spots bananas (brown spots). BTW, people said Taiwan is the " kingdom of bananas " . Christine W Chang, DAOM, LAc., " I think, therefore I am. " Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:40:06 AM Re: Bananas? I remember decades ago, Dick Gregory, that brilliant and idiocyncratic comedian/activist/ vegetarian saying that bananas were not truly fruits until they had turned that brown color when most people throw them away as being over ripe. I don't know what science lay behind the claim but I still find it an interesting idea. Doug , " bill_schoenbart " <plantmed2@. ..> wrote: > > Ripe bananas can move the bowels, while not-quite-ripe bananas are > still astringent and can bind the bowels. > > - Bill > > > , yehuda frischman > <@> wrote: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Bananas are amphoteric to the intestines, which means they have properties that balance the bowel in both directions. Pectin absorbs excess water, which reduces diarrhea. However the hydrated pectin also moistens the bowel so that dry constipation is treated. I had similar problems with psyllium (plantain) seed (che qian zi) which is used as a laxative in the west while it increases urination and decreases diarrhea by moving water out through the proper channels in Chinese medicine. It finally hit me that in the west the seed itself is consumed, as a bulk laxative, and will further constipate if taken with insufficient water. In Chinese medicine it is decocted and strained. Karen Vaughan, MSTOM Licensed Acupuncturist, and Herbalist 253 Garfield Place Brooklyn, NY 11215 (718) 622-6755 http://www.byregion.net/profiles/ksvaughan2.html ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks for giving a scientific framework to the functional knowledge I've already had of banana-works! I've known that nana's helped give form to bowel movements, as well as making them easier to move. At one workshop with Dr Tan, someone asked why nana's are prescribed for constipation when Americans think of them as being constipating. I thought, silly boy, just wait... Dr Tan paused, leaned carefully in his direction, and said, " Because American's don't drink enough water. " So much for another reason for westerners having difficulty moving the bowels! Lynn --- creationsgarden1 wrote: > Bananas are amphoteric to the intestines, which > means they have properties that balance the bowel in both directions. > Pectin absorbs excess water, which reduces diarrhea. However the hydrated pectin also moistens the bowel so that dry constipation is treated. > > I had similar problems with psyllium (plantain) > seed (che qian zi) which is used as a laxative in the west while it increases urination and decreases diarrhea by moving water out through the proper channels in Chinese medicine. > It finally hit me that in the west the seed itself is consumed, as a bulk laxative, and will further constipate if taken with insufficient water. In Chinese medicine it is decocted and strained. > > Karen Vaughan, MSTOM > Licensed Acupuncturist, and Herbalist > 253 Garfield Place > Brooklyn, NY 11215 > (718) 622-6755 > http://www.byregion.net/profiles/ksvaughan2.html J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac., 503.474.8876 Acupuncture House Calls! PO Box 14 Sheridan, OR 97378 ______________________________\ ____ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Karen, Psyllium is not the same as plantain seed (che qian zi). It is true that psyllium is a species of Plantago, however it is Plantago psyllium, and sometimes Plantago ovata (spogel seed or ispaghula) is used and according to Weiss the later has greater bulking properties. I have seen Plantago asiatica listed but I don't think it would work nearly as well. What do you think? I had similar problems with psyllium (plantain) seed (che qian zi) which is used as a laxative in the west while it increases urination and decreases diarrhea by moving water out through the proper channels in Chinese medicine. Thomas Honolulu, HI www.sourcepointherbs.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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