Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 An interesting question is the use of the term " spirituality " to describe certain states or atmospheres that a treatment can illicit. Also, 'spiritual' as a description of a practitioner is something that seems amorphous and unclear. Many would say that Jeffrey Yuen's words describe " spiritual " keys to unlock certain doors. Others might say that some 5E practitioners work closer to the " spirit " of their patients, because their tools (the five phases and paradigmatic systematic correspondences) emphasize poetic metaphor or encourage getting closer to the psyche of the patient, because of the nature of the interview process. (Of course I'm not making any defining statements) So, other than an awakened and authentic intention and a grounded yet inspired treatment, what is the definition of a " spiritual " medical practice? On 6/11/07, <zrosenbe wrote: > > Anne, > I don't think anyone has said that Worsley's system (Leamington > acupuncture) wasn't effective. The system is very patient-centered, > a lot of time and attention is given to the patient, and this is very > important. Each patient is felt to be unique, and their feelings are > shown to be important. Five phases can also be an excellent paradigm > for open-ended patterning of symptoms. However, in my opinion, it is > not enough to treat everything (internal disorders of the zang-fu, > external contractions, for example). > > The discussion was about the 'us vs. them' tenor that still seems to > inhabit some practitioners and schools, based on a very sophomoric > and superficial understanding of Chinese medicine. > > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 7:21 PM, anne.crowley<anne.crowley%40comcast.net>wrote: > > > Anne: He was very effective. > > There was a study done in the TAI clinic years ago, that showed a > > very high level of patient satisfaction. Again, what works is what > > is important. > > > > I have to say what is taught at TAI, my 5E school, is based on the > > 5 Phases. Even TAI is only basing their teachings on what Worsley > > taught the earlier practitioners. It has been extremely effective > > and changed many people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Kokko, I would contend that any therapy which compartmentalizes healing, is by definition non-spiritual, and conversely, any treatment which addresses bringing the patient's mind, emotions, and body in balance is spiritual. I'll never forget, that when I was in school, there was a supervisor who was a tuina master, and was highly in demand at our clinic. Technically he was really good. However, the whole time he would be treating patients, he would be engaged in a running conversation with Chinese interns, laughing and cracking jokes (again, no pejorative intended, only I state his nationality to indicate that I felt an insensitivity on his part, to have neither his patients nor his non-Chinese interns understanding him). Besides the obvious insensitivity in speaking a foreign language, I felt that speaking at all in excess was inappropriate, and I felt like he was looking upon the patients as nothing more than pieces of meat. The point I want to make, is that feeling good, high, different or anything else, for that matter is not necessarily spirituality. Sensuality? Perhaps, in the more rigid etymological definition of the word, but not spirituality. Rather, I believe that spirituality encompasses two inseparable elements: one is an acknowledgment and awareness of the presence of Qi, which serves as the force which connects us internally, with our viscera, minds and functionality, as well as externally, to everything that come into our sphere of influence, and second is our ability to actively participate in the process of influencing and connecting with Qi, in order to bring balance,( the prerequisite to healing) to our minds, emotions, and the vessels that holds them, our bodies. How we get there can be a matter of style, IMVHO. But, I do have a problem with an approach that does exactly as western bio-medicine promotes: dividing treatments into different specialized aspects, each treated separately. I feel that one of the greatest strengths of Chinese medicine is its awareness of the gestalt nature (that each part is inseparable from the whole) of the human being as well as the universe. Sincerely, Yehuda <johnkokko wrote: An interesting question is the use of the term " spirituality " to describe certain states or atmospheres that a treatment can illicit. Also, 'spiritual' as a description of a practitioner is something that seems amorphous and unclear. Many would say that Jeffrey Yuen's words describe " spiritual " keys to unlock certain doors. Others might say that some 5E practitioners work closer to the " spirit " of their patients, because their tools (the five phases and paradigmatic systematic correspondences) emphasize poetic metaphor or encourage getting closer to the psyche of the patient, because of the nature of the interview process. (Of course I'm not making any defining statements) So, other than an awakened and authentic intention and a grounded yet inspired treatment, what is the definition of a " spiritual " medical practice? On 6/11/07, <zrosenbe wrote: > > Anne, > I don't think anyone has said that Worsley's system (Leamington > acupuncture) wasn't effective. The system is very patient-centered, > a lot of time and attention is given to the patient, and this is very > important. Each patient is felt to be unique, and their feelings are > shown to be important. Five phases can also be an excellent paradigm > for open-ended patterning of symptoms. However, in my opinion, it is > not enough to treat everything (internal disorders of the zang-fu, > external contractions, for example). > > The discussion was about the 'us vs. them' tenor that still seems to > inhabit some practitioners and schools, based on a very sophomoric > and superficial understanding of Chinese medicine. > > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 7:21 PM, anne.crowley<anne.crowley%40comcast.net>wrote: > > > Anne: He was very effective. > > There was a study done in the TAI clinic years ago, that showed a > > very high level of patient satisfaction. Again, what works is what > > is important. > > > > I have to say what is taught at TAI, my 5E school, is based on the > > 5 Phases. Even TAI is only basing their teachings on what Worsley > > taught the earlier practitioners. It has been extremely effective > > and changed many people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I think this is a very important point. although accurate diagnosis and appropriate point selection is obviously crucial to the whole healing process, using acupuncture, or any healing modality for that matter, is much broader and deeper than technical application. this point is missed when systems are treated in isolation - usually (although perhaps not always), this is to the detriment of the patient. At best the healing potential is compromised. we have the potential to influence Qi from the moment we greet a patient to the moment they leave our treatment room and, in my opinion, everything we do in-between those times constitutes 'treatment' when we act with awareness and clear intent. on the subject of the gestalt nature of the human being and the universe, may I recommend a book called 'The Holographic Universe' by Michael Talbot which I believe is very pertinent to us as people who by definition work with Qi. regards jason For further information about acupuncture please visit my website: www.jasondavies-acupuncture.co.uk - yehuda frischman Chinese Medicine Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:18 AM Re: Re: Spiritual Acupuncture? Hi Kokko, I would contend that any therapy which compartmentalizes healing, is by definition non-spiritual, and conversely, any treatment which addresses bringing the patient's mind, emotions, and body in balance is spiritual. I'll never forget, that when I was in school, there was a supervisor who was a tuina master, and was highly in demand at our clinic. Technically he was really good. However, the whole time he would be treating patients, he would be engaged in a running conversation with Chinese interns, laughing and cracking jokes (again, no pejorative intended, only I state his nationality to indicate that I felt an insensitivity on his part, to have neither his patients nor his non-Chinese interns understanding him). Besides the obvious insensitivity in speaking a foreign language, I felt that speaking at all in excess was inappropriate, and I felt like he was looking upon the patients as nothing more than pieces of meat. The point I want to make, is that feeling good, high, different or anything else, for that matter is not necessarily spirituality. Sensuality? Perhaps, in the more rigid etymological definition of the word, but not spirituality. Rather, I believe that spirituality encompasses two inseparable elements: one is an acknowledgment and awareness of the presence of Qi, which serves as the force which connects us internally, with our viscera, minds and functionality, as well as externally, to everything that come into our sphere of influence, and second is our ability to actively participate in the process of influencing and connecting with Qi, in order to bring balance,( the prerequisite to healing) to our minds, emotions, and the vessels that holds them, our bodies. How we get there can be a matter of style, IMVHO. But, I do have a problem with an approach that does exactly as western bio-medicine promotes: dividing treatments into different specialized aspects, each treated separately. I feel that one of the greatest strengths of Chinese medicine is its awareness of the gestalt nature (that each part is inseparable from the whole) of the human being as well as the universe. Sincerely, Yehuda <johnkokko wrote: An interesting question is the use of the term " spirituality " to describe certain states or atmospheres that a treatment can illicit. Also, 'spiritual' as a description of a practitioner is something that seems amorphous and unclear. Many would say that Jeffrey Yuen's words describe " spiritual " keys to unlock certain doors. Others might say that some 5E practitioners work closer to the " spirit " of their patients, because their tools (the five phases and paradigmatic systematic correspondences) emphasize poetic metaphor or encourage getting closer to the psyche of the patient, because of the nature of the interview process. (Of course I'm not making any defining statements) So, other than an awakened and authentic intention and a grounded yet inspired treatment, what is the definition of a " spiritual " medical practice? On 6/11/07, <zrosenbe wrote: > > Anne, > I don't think anyone has said that Worsley's system (Leamington > acupuncture) wasn't effective. The system is very patient-centered, > a lot of time and attention is given to the patient, and this is very > important. Each patient is felt to be unique, and their feelings are > shown to be important. Five phases can also be an excellent paradigm > for open-ended patterning of symptoms. However, in my opinion, it is > not enough to treat everything (internal disorders of the zang-fu, > external contractions, for example). > > The discussion was about the 'us vs. them' tenor that still seems to > inhabit some practitioners and schools, based on a very sophomoric > and superficial understanding of Chinese medicine. > > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 7:21 PM, anne.crowley<anne.crowley%40comcast.net>wrote: > > > Anne: He was very effective. > > There was a study done in the TAI clinic years ago, that showed a > > very high level of patient satisfaction. Again, what works is what > > is important. > > > > I have to say what is taught at TAI, my 5E school, is based on the > > 5 Phases. Even TAI is only basing their teachings on what Worsley > > taught the earlier practitioners. It has been extremely effective > > and changed many people's lives. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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