Frequent canker sores/cold sores/herpes/bronchitis

[Guest guest]

what do you mean windex will do it? do you spray windex in the mouth? or a

rag and then apply pressure to the cold sore? flesh that out a bit please,

im very curious

 

 

Beth Grubb

Licensed Acupuncturist

Certified Animal Acupuncturist

410-591-2644

beth

www.bethgrubb.com

 

 

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

The following is very unorthodox folks, but plain ol' Windex will do it for

canker sores and cold sores within hours.

Glow, homemaker.

 

" Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist wrote:

Hi Laura,

I have had great success with Probiotics (good gut bacteria) as well as B

complex. Acidophilus being very specific and usually 24-36hrs will knock out the

canker sores. Very likely to have modest benefits for other issues as well.

Bob

www.acuherbals.com

 

heylaurag <heylaurag wrote:

Hi, I have a patient who came to me with frequent bronchitis, mouth

sores (canker sores), cold sores, and herpes. Her bronchitis has

since gotten better (no flares ups in many months now), but she

continues to go through periods of a mouth full of canker sores (often

referred to as Mouth sores in TCM texts). Still sometimes gets

herpes, often on her leg as opposed to genitals. She has gotten

canker sores frequently her whole life, even as a kid. She is

constitutionally yin deficient. Her tongue has a dip in the middle

(lung and/or stomach/spleen area). Not a lot of coating on her tongue,

but not peeled. Pulses are thready. Occassional nightsweats. 44

years old. Has a husky sounding voice. Former sun worshipper, but is

reducing that. High energy person.

 

I read about Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang in Notes From South Mountain

being good for someone with frequent bronchitis and canker

sores--adding a little Huang Lian. I gave it to her recently, but

since she is having an acute flare up of a mouth full of canker sores

I think that it is not addressing the acute aspect even if it is good

constitutionally. I am thinking of giving her Long Dan Xie Gan Tang

along with the Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang for the acute heat

situation, but wanted to get ideas on here as well. Any thoughts on

herbs? Any similar experiences to share?

 

Thanks,

 

Laura

 

 

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would really recommend against using Windex for any internal use, or

application upon broken or inflamed skin. Actually, it shouldn't even be

applied to healthy skin.

 

 

On 6/6/07, The Traveler <dumai20baihui wrote:

>

> Hi all,

> The following is very unorthodox folks, but plain ol' Windex will do it

> for canker sores and cold sores within hours.

> Glow, homemaker.

>

> " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist "

<boblindeherbalist<boblindeherbalist%40>>

> wrote:

> Hi Laura,

> I have had great success with Probiotics (good gut bacteria) as well as B

> complex. Acidophilus being very specific and usually 24-36hrs will knock out

> the canker sores. Very likely to have modest benefits for other issues as

> well.

> Bob

> www.acuherbals.com

>

> heylaurag <heylaurag <heylaurag%40hotmail.com>> wrote:

> Hi, I have a patient who came to me with frequent bronchitis, mouth

> sores (canker sores), cold sores, and herpes. Her bronchitis has

> since gotten better (no flares ups in many months now), but she

> continues to go through periods of a mouth full of canker sores (often

> referred to as Mouth sores in TCM texts). Still sometimes gets

> herpes, often on her leg as opposed to genitals. She has gotten

> canker sores frequently her whole life, even as a kid. She is

> constitutionally yin deficient. Her tongue has a dip in the middle

> (lung and/or stomach/spleen area). Not a lot of coating on her tongue,

> but not peeled. Pulses are thready. Occassional nightsweats. 44

> years old. Has a husky sounding voice. Former sun worshipper, but is

> reducing that. High energy person.

>

> I read about Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang in Notes From South Mountain

> being good for someone with frequent bronchitis and canker

> sores--adding a little Huang Lian. I gave it to her recently, but

> since she is having an acute flare up of a mouth full of canker sores

> I think that it is not addressing the acute aspect even if it is good

> constitutionally. I am thinking of giving her Long Dan Xie Gan Tang

> along with the Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang for the acute heat

> situation, but wanted to get ideas on here as well. Any thoughts on

> herbs? Any similar experiences to share?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Laura

>

>

> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who

> knows.

> Answers - Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Laura,

 

 

 

   The arginine/lysine factor is important, ie avoidance of

arginine-containing foods, and adding a lysine supplement. Nuts are high in

arginine. I believe that the herpes virus retreats into the nerve endings under

the influence of lysine, and is encouraged to express in the presence of

arginine.

 

______________________

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL

at AOL.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, alright, I'll tell ya:

 

At the first sign of cold sores, you would prepare a clean field in front of

the

mirror and on it you would have several Q-tips, gauze or a clean face towel,

and peroxide, and of course Windex.

You would then pop the cold sore and wash it RIGHTAWAY with wet towel

or wet gauze. Keep in mind that the fluid inside the cold sore is very

contagious

to its surroundings once popped. After washed and dried with water put

peroxide

of one Q-tip and clean around the cold sore and with another Q-tip with

peroxide

clean the cold sore itself. (it's gonna hurt like hell). Then with a dry gauze

or face

towel dry off the area.

Then, spray windex on a new Q-tip and put it right on the cold sore (it hurts)

do it twice, with 2 different Q-tips. Couple hours later apply more Windex on

new Q-tip of course and if you want do it a third time later on.

 

First time Iheard of this was a long time ago, next I saw it on that movie, My

big,

fat Greek wedding and then I told a friend of mine who had a huge cold sore

and she

tried it and it worked. Also my neighbour and it worked just fine.

 

What it does, appears to be that it scares the virus into submission and it

goes

dormant.

 

I don't know, they did it and they're still alive. There's nothing lethal in

the ingredients.

Use it at your own risk. I think it's safe. DO NOT SPRAY IT IN YOUR MOUTH,

just

use the Q-tip.

Glow

 

what do you mean windex will do it? do you spray windex in the mouth?

or a

rag and then apply pressure to the cold sore? flesh that out a bit please,

im very curious

 

 

Beth Grubb

Licensed Acupuncturist

Certified Animal Acupuncturist

410-591-2644

beth

www.bethgrubb.com

 

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I really appreciate all of these ideas. But I am also hoping to hear

of ideas about an herbal formula that I could make with individual

granules because I am going to see her tomorrow and she is pretty

miserable with a mouth full of canker sores (can you imagine? how

awful!). I'd have to order the Tian Qi Hua Jing, which I will do,

but am wondering about ideas I could make right now. ? Again, thanks

to all for the ideas that have been shared here.

 

Oh, I did want to mention something about Lycine: She actually had

been taking lycine every day when she started having the major

outbreaks. I read in " Healing With Whole Foods " by Paul Pitchford

(it has a TCM perspective) that while lycine is good at blocking

arginine, which in excess can cause outbreaks, it actually lowers the

immune system because arginine is essential for white blood cells.

So it may be better to only take lycine during an outbreak so that

the arginine is not completely wiped out.

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus wrote:

>

> Tian Qi Hua Jing works well for canker sores

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> heylaurag

> Chinese Medicine

> Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:23 PM

> Frequent canker sores/cold sores/herpes/bronchitis

>

>

> Hi, I have a patient who came to me with frequent bronchitis,

mouth

> sores (canker sores), cold sores, and herpes. Her bronchitis has

> since gotten better (no flares ups in many months now), but she

> continues to go through periods of a mouth full of canker sores

(often

> referred to as Mouth sores in TCM texts). Still sometimes gets

> herpes, often on her leg as opposed to genitals. She has gotten

> canker sores frequently her whole life, even as a kid. She is

> constitutionally yin deficient. Her tongue has a dip in the middle

> (lung and/or stomach/spleen area). Not a lot of coating on her

tongue,

> but not peeled. Pulses are thready. Occassional nightsweats. 44

> years old. Has a husky sounding voice. Former sun worshipper, but

is

> reducing that. High energy person.

>

> I read about Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang in Notes From South

Mountain

> being good for someone with frequent bronchitis and canker

> sores--adding a little Huang Lian. I gave it to her recently, but

> since she is having an acute flare up of a mouth full of canker

sores

> I think that it is not addressing the acute aspect even if it is

good

> constitutionally. I am thinking of giving her Long Dan Xie Gan

Tang

> along with the Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang for the acute heat

> situation, but wanted to get ideas on here as well. Any thoughts

on

> herbs? Any similar experiences to share?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Laura

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Laura,

The information you have given is a bit sketchy, so it is

difficult to determine a prescription.

 

I have a few questions:

 

1) How have you determined a yin deficient constitution?

 

2) What is her menstrual cycle like?

 

3) Is she on any medications, hormones, supplements?

 

4) Is her tongue body red or pale?

 

5) Are there digestive problems?

 

6) Does she use inhalers?

 

7) Is the pulse thready in all positions? Rapid or slow? Deep or

floating?

 

8) Does she smoke? In the past? Recreational drug use or alcohol?

 

9) What is her diet like?

 

10) How is her spirit? Does she have any problems with

concentration, clarity of thinking?

 

This condition can be related, according to Phillipe Sionneau's

" Treatment of Disease in TCM " , Vol. 2, to either heat accumulated in

heart and spleen, for which liang ge san/cool the diaphragm powder is

used, or non-interaction of heart and kidneys, for which a modified

version of zhi bai di huang wan is used. There is also a

prescription, kou chuang san/mouth sores powder, which contains

 

huang bai 15 gm

qing dai 15 gm

rou gui 15 gm

bing pian 10 gm

 

Which is powdered and applied to the effected area.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

 

 

Canker sores can be related to

 

 

On Jun 6, 2007, at 3:44 PM, heylaurag wrote:

 

> I really appreciate all of these ideas. But I am also hoping to hear

> of ideas about an herbal formula that I could make with individual

> granules because I am going to see her tomorrow and she is pretty

> miserable with a mouth full of canker sores (can you imagine? how

> awful!). I'd have to order the Tian Qi Hua Jing, which I will do,

> but am wondering about ideas I could make right now. ? Again, thanks

> to all for the ideas that have been shared here.

>

> Oh, I did want to mention something about Lycine: She actually had

> been taking lycine every day when she started having the major

> outbreaks. I read in " Healing With Whole Foods " by Paul Pitchford

> (it has a TCM perspective) that while lycine is good at blocking

> arginine, which in excess can cause outbreaks, it actually lowers the

> immune system because arginine is essential for white blood cells.

> So it may be better to only take lycine during an outbreak so that

> the arginine is not completely wiped out.

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus wrote:

> >

> > Tian Qi Hua Jing works well for canker sores

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > heylaurag

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:23 PM

> > Frequent canker sores/cold sores/herpes/bronchitis

> >

> >

> > Hi, I have a patient who came to me with frequent bronchitis,

> mouth

> > sores (canker sores), cold sores, and herpes. Her bronchitis has

> > since gotten better (no flares ups in many months now), but she

> > continues to go through periods of a mouth full of canker sores

> (often

> > referred to as Mouth sores in TCM texts). Still sometimes gets

> > herpes, often on her leg as opposed to genitals. She has gotten

> > canker sores frequently her whole life, even as a kid. She is

> > constitutionally yin deficient. Her tongue has a dip in the middle

> > (lung and/or stomach/spleen area). Not a lot of coating on her

> tongue,

> > but not peeled. Pulses are thready. Occassional nightsweats. 44

> > years old. Has a husky sounding voice. Former sun worshipper, but

> is

> > reducing that. High energy person.

> >

> > I read about Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang in Notes From South

> Mountain

> > being good for someone with frequent bronchitis and canker

> > sores--adding a little Huang Lian. I gave it to her recently, but

> > since she is having an acute flare up of a mouth full of canker

> sores

> > I think that it is not addressing the acute aspect even if it is

> good

> > constitutionally. I am thinking of giving her Long Dan Xie Gan

> Tang

> > along with the Sha Shen Mai Men Dong Tang for the acute heat

> > situation, but wanted to get ideas on here as well. Any thoughts

> on

> > herbs? Any similar experiences to share?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Laura

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Constitutionally what I often see is the following:

 

Liver depression, Spleen Vacuity and depressive heat wafting up to the

Lungs and Heart. Lung heat can often manifest as heat in the sinuses as

well, and the mucous (from Spleen Vacuity)descending downwards by

gravity irritates and inflames the bronchials secondarily.

Heart heat gives rise to mouth sores. Also there may be some Stomach

heat as well- another cause of apthous ulcers.

I would try Xiao Chai Hu Tang to harmonise the middle, strengthen

Spleen and clear heat, with some Akebia and /or Tian WAn Bu Xin DAn as

a secondary formula.

 

Does it look like these will fit your patient?

 

I would be interested to hear a follow up if this is helpful.

 

R. Cooper

[Guest guest]

Dao Qi San (Guide Out The Red) is also a wonderful formula for acute

Heart heat tongue sores. You don't need to use it for too long...the

correct constitutional treatment should make the need for it less.

Qualiherb still makes this in granules. (Am not sure of the current

status of mu tong's use as I haven't used it since the aristolochic

acid scare.)Maybe someone else has input on this.

 

R. Cooper

[Guest guest]

I agree, dao chi san is a great formula, if the pattern matches

(heart/s.i. fire). However, too many other signs and symptoms here

that don't indicate this pattern. . .perhaps combined with other

medicinals it would work.

 

(Chuan) Mu tong/Caulis clematidis armandii) to my knowledge does not

have any aristolochic acid in it. It was confused by the FDA for

guang mu tong, aristochlia manchuriensis, which is a different

medicinal that contains aristolochic acid and is toxic in large

doses. So it is safe to use according to the materia medicas I've

consulted.

 

 

 

 

On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:20 PM, rcooper1us wrote:

 

> Dao Qi San (Guide Out The Red) is also a wonderful formula for acute

> Heart heat tongue sores. You don't need to use it for too long...the

> correct constitutional treatment should make the need for it less.

> Qualiherb still makes this in granules. (Am not sure of the current

> status of mu tong's use as I haven't used it since the aristolochic

> acid scare.)Maybe someone else has input on this.

>

> R. Cooper

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Practical Therapeutics... by Wu and Fiscer lists only two etiologies

for mouth, canker sores.

 

1) Exuberant Heart and Spleen Heat.(a repletion pattern) Rx's mentioned

are liang ge san with additions, and dao chi san

 

2) Vacuity Fire. ( a vacuity pattern) Rx's Zhi bai di huang tang with

possible additions, ba zhen tang and jin gui shen qi wan.

 

the question would then be--how did these repletion or vacuity issues

arise? Constitution, diet, lifestyle etc. The original post had too few

signs and symptoms for us to make the diagnosis, but these are places

to start and ideas for the practitioner.

 

R.Cooper

[Guest guest]

I agree on all points. . .

 

 

On Jun 7, 2007, at 8:33 AM, rcooper1us wrote:

 

> Practical Therapeutics... by Wu and Fiscer lists only two etiologies

> for mouth, canker sores.

>

> 1) Exuberant Heart and Spleen Heat.(a repletion pattern) Rx's

> mentioned

> are liang ge san with additions, and dao chi san

>

> 2) Vacuity Fire. ( a vacuity pattern) Rx's Zhi bai di huang tang with

> possible additions, ba zhen tang and jin gui shen qi wan.

>

> the question would then be--how did these repletion or vacuity issues

> arise? Constitution, diet, lifestyle etc. The original post had too

> few

> signs and symptoms for us to make the diagnosis, but these are places

> to start and ideas for the practitioner.

>

> R.Cooper

>

>

>