Guest guest Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Hi Everyone, I have a patient, 52 yrs old, who is scheduled to undergo surgery for an enlarged prostate on June 22. He was diagnosed with BPH 2 1/2years ago and has been taking Hytrin and Saw Palmetto (160 mg per day) for a year with no improvement. His previous history includes 4 ear surgeries (4-7 yrs old) and 2 inguinal hernia surgeries (40 yrs old). His diet is vegetarian, exercises regularly, and takes many supplements. Currently, his symptoms are: * decrease in flow, dribbling, difficulty starting/stopping, urgency to urinate, frequent urination, slight throbbing pain in the penis, wakes up 5-8 times an evening to urinate. * dry/itchy eyes, dry hair, dry brittle nails, poor vision, floaters, poor hearing, and constant earringing * lately he's been waking up at 3:00 am with difficulty falling back asleep. * varicose veins since taking Hytrin * Digestion, temp, sweating, etc. = okay Pulse: Right: Thready/Bowstring Left: Cun/Chi: weak/ deep Guan: Excess/Bounding Tongue: Dusky on sides with sl. yellow greasy fur in SP/ST and Lower Jiao Area I diagnosed him as KD/LV yin Def with Phlegm and Blood Stagnation in Lower Jiao and prescribed him : Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan Mod: Huang Bai Mu Dan Pi San Leng Sheng di Fu Ling E Zhu Shan Zhu Yu Che Qian Zi Shan Yao Hai Zao Ze Xie Niu Xi 3 bags for 1 week: He took the herbs for 1 week with no results. Is it realistic to see results in the first week? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. BTW, the goal of the treatment is to reduce the size of prostate and prepare the body for surgery. Thanks, Ky Yu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 In my mind, anyone exhibiting a hormonally based symptom would do well by having their hormones checked. If the man is estrogen dominant or androgen deficient, then see how it fits with and treat it appropriately. This is a condition that is very common and we know much of the physiology behind it. Why not use all the tools we have available? IMHO, Chris ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Hi Ky Yu I am wondering why you diagnosed Kidney Yin deficiency. I don't see it at all. That is probably the main difficulty with your formula. He does have liver blood deficiency - dry brittle nails, floaters and liver blood stasis - We could say that the quality of his blood is both dry and thick. this helps explain the varicosities, dry hair, dry eyes, waking at 3:00 and even poor hearing and tinnitus and just the poor flow of Qi in his Liver channel. From my point of view his Kidneys are also involved but it's not Kidney Yin or Yang or Jing from what you have said. It is Kidney Qi because of the dribbling, urgent and frequent urine. Finally there is dampheat in the lower warmer - we can tell from his tongue. It would be good to know the color of his urine so we could distinguish how much heat or damp. Diagnosis: Liver Blood deficiency and stasis, Kidney Qi deficiency and damp heat in the lower warmer. Treatment principle: Harmonize the liver blood (this means to both invigorate and nourish) Supplement the Kidney Qi to consolidate the lower warmer while unblocking urination to clear dampheat and scatter nodulation in the liver channel. San Leng and E Zhu would be if he had a lot of pain. I would not use Huang Bai and Zhi Mu to clear the damp heat but, since his urination is blocked, clear the damp heat through the urination. (mu tong, che qian zi) I would suggest starting with Ju He Wan but modify it: Ju He 12 Ju Luo(if you have it) 12 (you could also use Li Zhi He) Chuan Lian Zi 9 Yan Hu Suo 9 Xiang Fu 9 Tao Ren 9 Rou Gui 6 Mu Tong 9 Zhi Shi 9 Dang Gui 12 Chuan Xiong 6 Dan Shen 9 Hai Zao 15 Kun Bu 15 Che Qian Zi 12 Tu Si Zi 15 This addresses the disease factors, the symptoms and the location. The hytrin sounds pretty bad for him! I think these herbs would help more. Let us know! Sharon I have a patient, 52 yrs old, who is scheduled to undergo surgery for an enlarged prostate on June 22. He was diagnosed with BPH 2 1/2years ago and has been taking Hytrin and Saw Palmetto (160 mg per day) for a year with no improvement. His previous history includes 4 ear surgeries (4-7 yrs old) and 2 inguinal hernia surgeries (40 yrs old). His diet is vegetarian, exercises regularly, and takes many supplements. Currently, his symptoms are: * decrease in flow, dribbling, difficulty starting/stopping, urgency to urinate, frequent urination, slight throbbing pain in the penis, wakes up 5-8 times an evening to urinate. * dry/itchy eyes, dry hair, dry brittle nails, poor vision, floaters, poor hearing, and constant earringing * lately he's been waking up at 3:00 am with difficulty falling back asleep. * varicose veins since taking Hytrin * Digestion, temp, sweating, etc. = okay Pulse: Right: Thready/Bowstring Left: Cun/Chi: weak/ deep Guan: Excess/Bounding Tongue: Dusky on sides with sl. yellow greasy fur in SP/ST and Lower Jiao Area I diagnosed him as KD/LV yin Def with Phlegm and Blood Stagnation in Lower Jiao and prescribed him : Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan Mod: Huang Bai Mu Dan Pi San Leng Sheng di Fu Ling E Zhu Shan Zhu Yu Che Qian Zi Shan Yao Hai Zao Ze Xie Niu Xi 3 bags for 1 week: He took the herbs for 1 week with no results. Is it realistic to see results in the first week? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. BTW, the goal of the treatment is to reduce the size of prostate and prepare the body for surgery. Thanks, Ky Yu Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Hi Sharon, Thanks for your insightful suggestions. I was thinking KD Yin deficiency because: dry hair, tinnitus, poor hearing, waking up at night and not being able to fall asleep, and constitutionally, he had 4 ear surgeries as a child. I'll try a modification of Ju He Wan. Warm regards, Ky sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote: Hi Ky Yu I am wondering why you diagnosed Kidney Yin deficiency. I don't see it at all. That is probably the main difficulty with your formula. He does have liver blood deficiency - dry brittle nails, floaters and liver blood stasis - We could say that the quality of his blood is both dry and thick. this helps explain the varicosities, dry hair, dry eyes, waking at 3:00 and even poor hearing and tinnitus and just the poor flow of Qi in his Liver channel. From my point of view his Kidneys are also involved but it's not Kidney Yin or Yang or Jing from what you have said. It is Kidney Qi because of the dribbling, urgent and frequent urine. Finally there is dampheat in the lower warmer - we can tell from his tongue. It would be good to know the color of his urine so we could distinguish how much heat or damp. Diagnosis: Liver Blood deficiency and stasis, Kidney Qi deficiency and damp heat in the lower warmer. Treatment principle: Harmonize the liver blood (this means to both invigorate and nourish) Supplement the Kidney Qi to consolidate the lower warmer while unblocking urination to clear dampheat and scatter nodulation in the liver channel. San Leng and E Zhu would be if he had a lot of pain. I would not use Huang Bai and Zhi Mu to clear the damp heat but, since his urination is blocked, clear the damp heat through the urination. (mu tong, che qian zi) I would suggest starting with Ju He Wan but modify it: Ju He 12 Ju Luo(if you have it) 12 (you could also use Li Zhi He) Chuan Lian Zi 9 Yan Hu Suo 9 Xiang Fu 9 Tao Ren 9 Rou Gui 6 Mu Tong 9 Zhi Shi 9 Dang Gui 12 Chuan Xiong 6 Dan Shen 9 Hai Zao 15 Kun Bu 15 Che Qian Zi 12 Tu Si Zi 15 This addresses the disease factors, the symptoms and the location. The hytrin sounds pretty bad for him! I think these herbs would help more. Let us know! Sharon I have a patient, 52 yrs old, who is scheduled to undergo surgery for an enlarged prostate on June 22. He was diagnosed with BPH 2 1/2years ago and has been taking Hytrin and Saw Palmetto (160 mg per day) for a year with no improvement. His previous history includes 4 ear surgeries (4-7 yrs old) and 2 inguinal hernia surgeries (40 yrs old). His diet is vegetarian, exercises regularly, and takes many supplements. Currently, his symptoms are: * decrease in flow, dribbling, difficulty starting/stopping, urgency to urinate, frequent urination, slight throbbing pain in the penis, wakes up 5-8 times an evening to urinate. * dry/itchy eyes, dry hair, dry brittle nails, poor vision, floaters, poor hearing, and constant earringing * lately he's been waking up at 3:00 am with difficulty falling back asleep. * varicose veins since taking Hytrin * Digestion, temp, sweating, etc. = okay Pulse: Right: Thready/Bowstring Left: Cun/Chi: weak/ deep Guan: Excess/Bounding Tongue: Dusky on sides with sl. yellow greasy fur in SP/ST and Lower Jiao Area I diagnosed him as KD/LV yin Def with Phlegm and Blood Stagnation in Lower Jiao and prescribed him : Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan Mod: Huang Bai Mu Dan Pi San Leng Sheng di Fu Ling E Zhu Shan Zhu Yu Che Qian Zi Shan Yao Hai Zao Ze Xie Niu Xi 3 bags for 1 week: He took the herbs for 1 week with no results. Is it realistic to see results in the first week? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. BTW, the goal of the treatment is to reduce the size of prostate and prepare the body for surgery. Thanks, Ky Yu Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Hi Chris, I never considered the idea of having my patient get his hormones checked. I'll suggest that to him. Warm regards, Ky Musiclear wrote: In my mind, anyone exhibiting a hormonally based symptom would do well by having their hormones checked. If the man is estrogen dominant or androgen deficient, then see how it fits with and treat it appropriately. This is a condition that is very common and we know much of the physiology behind it. Why not use all the tools we have available? IMHO, Chris ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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