Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hi all, I am getting in a new patient , a 5 year old child, next week. All i know so far about him is, that he had a car accident 2 years ago and is since hyperactive and suffering from PTSD. He is the child of an illegal black immigrant family. I know you don`t like to make suggestions without knowing the case better. But for i don`t have much experience with children so far, i still would be happy for any help i could get in advance! When I know more, i will let you know . Also i am not sure, wheter a child of 5 is old enough to be diagnosed with pulse and tongue or how would you proceed? thanks rebekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hi Rebekka, Will you be using needles, or doing acupressure? I find little kids are usually very reluctant to be needled. Either way, you may want to use a trauma treatment taught by my teacher Peter Yates. It's Ki 27, 16 and 6, and yin tang. I've seen some pretty radical results with this treatment, including on myself when I was going through some trauma. Let us know how it goes. Peace, Liz Casey P.S. I often find with young children that, whether I'm using needles or acupressure, they're more comfortable if the treatment is given while they're being held by their mom or dad. And, less is always more with little people. - knumpf1 Chinese Medicine Monday, May 21, 2007 1:37 PM Child suffering from PTSD Hi all, I am getting in a new patient , a 5 year old child, next week. All i know so far about him is, that he had a car accident 2 years ago and is since hyperactive and suffering from PTSD. He is the child of an illegal black immigrant family. I know you don`t like to make suggestions without knowing the case better. But for i don`t have much experience with children so far, i still would be happy for any help i could get in advance! When I know more, i will let you know . Also i am not sure, wheter a child of 5 is old enough to be diagnosed with pulse and tongue or how would you proceed? thanks rebekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Hi Rebekka, When I went to the NADA conference last year, there was quite a bit of talk about using the NADA auricular protocol for treating children, people with PTSD, and survivors of trauma. I think your patient fits all three of these categories. I would start there, and maybe with seeds instead of needles. I had good results treating a hyperactive 2-year old with autism, using the seeds on the ear points. knumpf1 <knumpf1 wrote: Hi all, I am getting in a new patient , a 5 year old child, next week. All i know so far about him is, that he had a car accident 2 years ago and is since hyperactive and suffering from PTSD. He is the child of an illegal black immigrant family. I know you don`t like to make suggestions without knowing the case better. But for i don`t have much experience with children so far, i still would be happy for any help i could get in advance! When I know more, i will let you know . Also i am not sure, wheter a child of 5 is old enough to be diagnosed with pulse and tongue or how would you proceed? thanks rebekka Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 We just finished doing a pediatric workshop conducted by Thomas Duckworth and he used a toothebrush for stimulation on small children along with magrain balls. He said he sent a toothebrush home with the parents and showed them how and where to use it in order to stimulate the energy. I'm not familiar with PTSD........what is it and what is the pathology? Kindest regards, jamie www.whartenby.com - Liz Chinese Medicine Monday, May 21, 2007 3:26 PM Re: Child suffering from PTSD Hi Rebekka, Will you be using needles, or doing acupressure? I find little kids are usually very reluctant to be needled. Either way, you may want to use a trauma treatment taught by my teacher Peter Yates. It's Ki 27, 16 and 6, and yin tang. I've seen some pretty radical results with this treatment, including on myself when I was going through some trauma. Let us know how it goes. Peace, Liz Casey P.S. I often find with young children that, whether I'm using needles or acupressure, they're more comfortable if the treatment is given while they're being held by their mom or dad. And, less is always more with little people. - knumpf1 Chinese Medicine Monday, May 21, 2007 1:37 PM Child suffering from PTSD Hi all, I am getting in a new patient , a 5 year old child, next week. All i know so far about him is, that he had a car accident 2 years ago and is since hyperactive and suffering from PTSD. He is the child of an illegal black immigrant family. I know you don`t like to make suggestions without knowing the case better. But for i don`t have much experience with children so far, i still would be happy for any help i could get in advance! When I know more, i will let you know . Also i am not sure, wheter a child of 5 is old enough to be diagnosed with pulse and tongue or how would you proceed? thanks rebekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. i will look for it in the net to find out more Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just for points or also for whole meridians? PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, when i have seen the boy! Rebekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Oh, okay. I know what that is (duh)! Abbreviations sometimes throw me. The toothebrush method was used on both the meridians and points. However, now knowing what PTSD is, I would just do handwork for the first time and get him used to you. Depending on what has happened, how old he is and how responsive he is I'd concentrate on his abdomen and his back. Good luck with him and let us know how things go! Jamie - knumpf1 Chinese Medicine Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:40 AM Re: Child suffering from PTSD thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. i will look for it in the net to find out more Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just for points or also for whole meridians? PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, when i have seen the boy! Rebekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Jamie could you say more about the toothbrush technique? are you using bristles or back? amount of pressure? are you stroking/brushing entire/partial channels in which direction? how are you using it on points? are you using your normal diagnostic tools to pick the channels/points? how often do you recommend patients/parents do this at home? thanks - this sounds like such a good tool. Karen Karen R Adams Lic Ac, Dipl Ac Whartenby! wrote: > Oh, okay. I know what that is (duh)! Abbreviations sometimes throw me. > The toothebrush method was used on both the meridians and points. > However, now knowing what PTSD is, I would just do handwork for the > first time and get him used to you. Depending on what has happened, > how old he is and how responsive he is I'd concentrate on his abdomen > and his back. > > Good luck with him and let us know how things go! > Jamie > > - > knumpf1 > Chinese Medicine > <Chinese Medicine%40> > Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:40 AM > Re: Child suffering from PTSD > > thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! > > Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i > thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting > and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. > > Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. > i will look for it in the net to find out more > > Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just > for points or also for whole meridians? > PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms > (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after > traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) > > Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? > > unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has > experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? > > again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, > when i have seen the boy! > > Rebekka > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Karen, I will do my best to explain how he used this technique. First of all the toothebrush was soft bristled. He brushed in the direction of the meridian using short, quick strokes. Not like using moxibustion where there's a 7 so but I guess just doing it for a few seconds in order to stimulate or in order for the area to turn red/pink so the blood surfaces. He (Thomas Duckworth) also sent a toothebrush home with the parent and told them to do this to their kid everyday. I was in total awe when he presented this at our workshop. He also used other tools during the presentation but the toothebrush was the first thing he mentioned and passed around. He also said that he didn't treat children for more than 10-15 minutes and that it; better to under treat than over treat. I don't know if I agree with that or not but I think it depends on the child (age, constitution, duration of the disease, etc.). I don't know if I'd pull out a toothebrush the first treatment or not. Like I said wiht PTSD, I'd stick with handwork and humor and make it as fun as possible. I have a little girl (10) who has cerebral palsey and her legs are scissored together. Before I saw her I talked to her mom and asked her what her favorite toy was and she said she likes phone books. Okay, whatever. So when I saw her and pulled out a phone book she immediately opened up and smiled and was very responsive. Children can be so responsive to this kind of treatment. What wonderful parents he must have to have him C U for his PTSD. Jamie - K Adams Chinese Medicine Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:20 PM Re: Re: Child suffering from PTSD Jamie could you say more about the toothbrush technique? are you using bristles or back? amount of pressure? are you stroking/brushing entire/partial channels in which direction? how are you using it on points? are you using your normal diagnostic tools to pick the channels/points? how often do you recommend patients/parents do this at home? thanks - this sounds like such a good tool. Karen Karen R Adams Lic Ac, Dipl Ac Whartenby! wrote: > Oh, okay. I know what that is (duh)! Abbreviations sometimes throw me. > The toothebrush method was used on both the meridians and points. > However, now knowing what PTSD is, I would just do handwork for the > first time and get him used to you. Depending on what has happened, > how old he is and how responsive he is I'd concentrate on his abdomen > and his back. > > Good luck with him and let us know how things go! > Jamie > > - > knumpf1 > Chinese Medicine > <Chinese Medicine%40> > Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:40 AM > Re: Child suffering from PTSD > > thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! > > Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i > thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting > and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. > > Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. > i will look for it in the net to find out more > > Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just > for points or also for whole meridians? > PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms > (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after > traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) > > Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? > > unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has > experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? > > again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, > when i have seen the boy! > > Rebekka > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 The following information on Kiiko's treatment is from notes I took out of her book " Clinical Strategies Vol. 1 " I also strongly recommend the herbal treatments I posted on. Good luck, Ross Kidney Reflex: Shock, trauma, birth trauma, abuse, near death experience, including surgery, cortico-steroid hormone users. Adrenal Exhaustion: DX: Around umbilicus from 9:00 to 6:00 and from 3:00 to 6:00; Loss of elasticity or coolness in lower abdomen TX: Step 1. KI 6, KI 27, LU 5 (most potent when moxa used too). If KI 27 is very painful, needle HT 7 on same side first. If HT 7 doesn't work can use HT 3 needled at 15* down. If LU 1 is painful the correct location of LU 5 is that which reduces pain at LU 1. If GB 26-28 (Dai Mai) is painful or patient suffers from bone problems, use KI 7 instead of KI 6. Use KI 7 for radiation, osteoarthritis, etc. Use combo of KI 7, KI 9 and KI 10 instead of KI 6 when pressure pain is at attachment of inguinal ligament to ASIS. If respiratory prob, use KI 3 instead of KI 6. KI 3 can be used for thyroid prob, too, esp if it reduces pressure pain at ST 9. For elderly patients, esp if used a lot of meds in their lifetime, or women after menopause with pressure at adrenal zone that don't improve w/ KI 6, use KI 9. In some cases can combine KI 6 and KI 9. Whenever, KI 2 is painful, KI 7 and KI 10 should be used instead of KI 6. Painful fire point often found when pressure pain is at ST 28, Ren 6 and KI 13 area. (usually prostate, GYN prob) Sometimes pain at KI 2 can be thyroid prob or after removal of ovaries. Step 2. if relief was less than 60%: needle SP 9 and GB 25. If SP 9 (usually bilaterally) helps, underlying SP defic. If GB 25 does it, underlying KI defic. Sometimes, Nagano's Dai Mai tx helps. This suggests structural imbalance of external obliques, rectus abdominus and linea alba. Step 3.: only if pressure still remains. Needle KI 16 45* towards umbilicus. If navel very hard, use salt moxa or Tiger Warmer first. Can use magnets (2500 or 3000 gauss) – north pole faces most painful spot at KI 16 and south pole on less painful spot or on other side. Magnet tx not to exceed 20 min. Do do e-stim w/ Pointer F-3 or mechanical w/ Manaka hammer and dowel. Step 4: needle Hua Tou of Du 4 (if slow and sinking pulse) If outer rim of umbilicus is painful due to KI disharmony, needle GB 25 to release. If pulse is weak in 3rd position, or is deep and slow, or is rapid tight thin in all 3 positions, warrants adrenal tx. This tx strengthens the adrenals and their ability to secrete hormones such as cortisol. Also regulates medullary response of adrenal gland in secretion of epinephrine and norepinephrine. -- Ross Rosen, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine 166 Mountain Ave. Westfield, NJ 07090 (908) 654-4333 www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com http://rossrosen.blogspot.com This email contains confidential information intended for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you should receive this in error please contact us immediately by return mail, or at the above phone number. Unauthorized use of this information may be in violation of criminal statutes or HIPAA regulations. Under no circumstances shall this material be retained, transmitted, or copied by anyone other than the addressee(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I have questions too - Do you sterilize the toothbrush after use, or use a new one for each child? If you do sterilize it, how? K Adams <k_r_adams wrote: Jamie could you say more about the toothbrush technique? are you using bristles or back? amount of pressure? are you stroking/brushing entire/partial channels in which direction? how are you using it on points? are you using your normal diagnostic tools to pick the channels/points? how often do you recommend patients/parents do this at home? thanks - this sounds like such a good tool. Karen Karen R Adams Lic Ac, Dipl Ac Whartenby! wrote: > Oh, okay. I know what that is (duh)! Abbreviations sometimes throw me. > The toothebrush method was used on both the meridians and points. > However, now knowing what PTSD is, I would just do handwork for the > first time and get him used to you. Depending on what has happened, > how old he is and how responsive he is I'd concentrate on his abdomen > and his back. > > Good luck with him and let us know how things go! > Jamie > > - > knumpf1 > Chinese Medicine > <Chinese Medicine%40> > Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:40 AM > Re: Child suffering from PTSD > > thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! > > Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i > thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting > and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. > > Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. > i will look for it in the net to find out more > > Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just > for points or also for whole meridians? > PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms > (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after > traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) > > Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? > > unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has > experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? > > again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, > when i have seen the boy! > > Rebekka > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I, personally have not used this technique. This was shown to me at a pediatric workshop I went to. I think he gave the toothebrush to the child/parents after he used it on them for their own use. - Chinese Medicine Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:47 AM Re: Re: Child suffering from PTSD I have questions too - Do you sterilize the toothbrush after use, or use a new one for each child? If you do sterilize it, how? K Adams <k_r_adams wrote: Jamie could you say more about the toothbrush technique? are you using bristles or back? amount of pressure? are you stroking/brushing entire/partial channels in which direction? how are you using it on points? are you using your normal diagnostic tools to pick the channels/points? how often do you recommend patients/parents do this at home? thanks - this sounds like such a good tool. Karen Karen R Adams Lic Ac, Dipl Ac Whartenby! wrote: > Oh, okay. I know what that is (duh)! Abbreviations sometimes throw me. > The toothebrush method was used on both the meridians and points. > However, now knowing what PTSD is, I would just do handwork for the > first time and get him used to you. Depending on what has happened, > how old he is and how responsive he is I'd concentrate on his abdomen > and his back. > > Good luck with him and let us know how things go! > Jamie > > - > knumpf1 > Chinese Medicine > <Chinese Medicine%40> > Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:40 AM > Re: Child suffering from PTSD > > thanks a lot for all your input! it's of great help! > > Liz: thanks for the trauma treatment - points, i will try them. i > thought to treat first with acupressure, see, how he is reacting > and maybe try in further sessions acupuncture. > > Andrea: i am not familiar with the NADA protocol for treating children. > i will look for it in the net to find out more > > Jamie: sounds interesting this toothbrush- method. do you use it just > for points or also for whole meridians? > PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is a complex of symptoms > (like stress,anxiety,depression,..) that can occur after > traumatic experiences. (in his case the car accident) > > Ross: can i find out more about Kiiko's trauma treatment in the net? > > unfortunately i am not trained in chinese herbs (yet), someone has > experience with western herbs in chinese medicine? > > again thank you all for your help. i will let you know more next week, > when i have seen the boy! > > Rebekka > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 thanks a lot , ross! --- Ross Rosen <rossrosen schrieb: > The following information on Kiiko's treatment is > from notes I took out of > her book " Clinical Strategies Vol. 1 " > > I also strongly recommend the herbal treatments I > posted on. > > Good luck, > Ross > > > Kidney Reflex: Shock, trauma, birth trauma, abuse, > near death experience, > including surgery, cortico-steroid hormone users. > > Adrenal Exhaustion: > DX: Around umbilicus from 9:00 to 6:00 and from > 3:00 to 6:00; Loss of > elasticity or coolness in lower abdomen > TX: Step 1. KI 6, KI 27, LU 5 (most potent when > moxa used too). If KI 27 > is very painful, needle HT 7 on same side first. If > HT 7 doesn't work can > use HT 3 needled at 15* down. If LU 1 is painful > the correct location of LU > 5 is that which reduces pain at LU 1. If GB 26-28 > (Dai Mai) is painful or > patient suffers from bone problems, use KI 7 instead > of KI 6. Use KI 7 for > radiation, osteoarthritis, etc. Use combo of KI 7, > KI 9 and KI 10 instead > of KI 6 when pressure pain is at attachment of > inguinal ligament to ASIS. > If respiratory prob, use KI 3 instead of KI 6. KI 3 > can be used for thyroid > prob, too, esp if it reduces pressure pain at ST 9. > For elderly patients, > esp if used a lot of meds in their lifetime, or > women after menopause with > pressure at adrenal zone that don't improve w/ KI 6, > use KI 9. In some > cases can combine KI 6 and KI 9. Whenever, KI 2 is > painful, KI 7 and KI 10 > should be used instead of KI 6. Painful fire point > often found when > pressure pain is at ST 28, Ren 6 and KI 13 area. > (usually prostate, GYN > prob) Sometimes pain at KI 2 can be thyroid prob or > after removal of > ovaries. > Step 2. if relief was less than 60%: needle SP 9 > and GB 25. If SP 9 > (usually bilaterally) helps, underlying SP defic. > If GB 25 does it, > underlying KI defic. Sometimes, Nagano's Dai Mai tx > helps. This suggests > structural imbalance of external obliques, rectus > abdominus and linea alba. > Step 3.: only if pressure still remains. Needle KI > 16 45* towards > umbilicus. If navel very hard, use salt moxa or > Tiger Warmer first. Can > use magnets (2500 or 3000 gauss) – north pole faces > most painful spot at KI > 16 and south pole on less painful spot or on other > side. Magnet tx not to > exceed 20 min. Do do e-stim w/ Pointer F-3 or > mechanical w/ Manaka hammer > and dowel. > Step 4: needle Hua Tou of Du 4 (if slow and sinking > pulse) > > If outer rim of umbilicus is painful due to KI > disharmony, needle GB 25 to > release. > > If pulse is weak in 3rd position, or is deep and > slow, or is rapid tight > thin in all 3 positions, warrants adrenal tx. > > This tx strengthens the adrenals and their ability > to secrete hormones such > as cortisol. Also regulates medullary response of > adrenal gland in > secretion of epinephrine and norepinephrine. > > -- > Ross Rosen, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) > Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine > 166 Mountain Ave. > Westfield, NJ 07090 > (908) 654-4333 > www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com > http://rossrosen.blogspot.com > > > This email contains confidential information > intended for the person(s) to > whom it is addressed. If you should receive this in > error please contact us > immediately by return mail, or at the above phone > number. Unauthorized > use of this information may be in violation of > criminal statutes or HIPAA > regulations. Under no circumstances shall this > material be retained, > transmitted, or copied by anyone other than the > addressee(s). > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Subscribe to the fee online journal for TCM at > Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, > http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > > > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any > duplication outside the group requires prior > permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this > message if absolutely necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Chinese Medicine , " Whartenby! " <jwhartenby wrote: > > > Please, what are these " trauma points?' Which ones, specifically? Are they " extra points, " or regular acu points in the twelve channels?? THANKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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