billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

[Guest guest]

that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to

this discussion?

karen

 

Barbara Beale wrote:

 

> That price seems excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I've only

> been stiffed on 2 treatments in the years I've used my particular service.

> That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I might just

> give up practicing and open a billing service!!

>

> _____

>

> Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> [Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of

> K Adams

> Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> Re: Re: length and duration of treatment

>

> Hi Steve - I just connected with a small business owner who does

> billing to insurance for small medical offices (like acupuncturists).

> She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which seems reasonable to me

> (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all the contacts,

> knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them. That's

> actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my business. The 10%

> is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't collect, I

> don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always collect'. This

> kind of business is a growing niche business. Some folks will do it for

> swaps - treatment for work.

> Karen

>

> Karen R. Adams

> Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS

> Four Directions Healing Arts

> 112 Avenue A

> Turners Falls, MA 01376

> 413-863-8033

> 413-768-8333

>

> Steve Smith wrote:

>

> > Hello,

> > Thank you for the reply.

> > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to

> > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think

> > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has me feeling

> > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the

> > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting

> > paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?

> >

> > Thank you for your time

> >

> > Steve

> >

> >

> > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at

> > Games.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that 10% is high.

You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the amount

you bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you only

bill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher 8%.

 

Elie

Directory

http://www.tcmdirectory.com

 

Chinese Medicine , K Adams

<k_r_adams wrote:

>

> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to

> this discussion?

> karen

>

> Barbara Beale wrote:

>

> > That price seems excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I've

only

> > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the years I've used my particular

service.

> > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I might

just

> > give up practicing and open a billing service!!

> >

> > _____

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > [Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of

> > K Adams

> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > Re: Re: length and duration of treatment

> >

> > Hi Steve - I just connected with a small business owner who does

> > billing to insurance for small medical offices (like acupuncturists).

> > She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which seems reasonable

to me

> > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all the contacts,

> > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them. That's

> > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my business. The 10%

> > is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't collect, I

> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always collect'. This

> > kind of business is a growing niche business. Some folks will do

it for

> > swaps - treatment for work.

> > Karen

> >

> > Karen R. Adams

> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS

> > Four Directions Healing Arts

> > 112 Avenue A

> > Turners Falls, MA 01376

> > 413-863-8033

> > 413-768-8333

> >

> > Steve Smith wrote:

> >

> > > Hello,

> > > Thank you for the reply.

> > > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to

> > > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think

> > > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has me

feeling

> > > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the

> > > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting

> > > paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?

> > >

> > > Thank you for your time

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > >

> > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at

> > > Games.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

this is interesting - what exactly do your billers do? do they file all

paperwork? help you fill out forms? what else?

karen

 

TCMdirectory.com wrote:

 

> Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that 10% is high.

> You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the amount

> you bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you only

> bill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher 8%.

>

> Elie

> Directory

> http://www.tcmdirectory.com <http://www.tcmdirectory.com>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>, K Adams

> <k_r_adams wrote:

> >

> > that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to

> > this discussion?

> > karen

> >

> > Barbara Beale wrote:

> >

> > > That price seems excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I've

> only

> > > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the years I've used my particular

> service.

> > > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I might

> just

> > > give up practicing and open a billing service!!

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > [Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > <Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of

> > > K Adams

> > > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM

> > > Chinese Medicine

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > Re: Re: length and duration of treatment

> > >

> > > Hi Steve - I just connected with a small business owner who does

> > > billing to insurance for small medical offices (like acupuncturists).

> > > She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which seems reasonable

> to me

> > > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all the contacts,

> > > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them. That's

> > > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my business. The 10%

> > > is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't collect, I

> > > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always collect'. This

> > > kind of business is a growing niche business. Some folks will do

> it for

> > > swaps - treatment for work.

> > > Karen

> > >

> > > Karen R. Adams

> > > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS

> > > Four Directions Healing Arts

> > > 112 Avenue A

> > > Turners Falls, MA 01376

> > > 413-863-8033

> > > 413-768-8333

> > >

> > > Steve Smith wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > > Thank you for the reply.

> > > > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to

> > > > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think

> > > > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has me

> feeling

> > > > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the

> > > > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting

> > > > paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your time

> > > >

> > > > Steve

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at

> > > > Games.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then 10%? I had one years ago for

10% and

she was great also know of another biller hired by a LAc also for that magical

10%. There

is a lot more going on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of

what a biller also

follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will hire at

least one full-time

salaried person for this type of position. So I wonder why we are arguing over

small change.

Ten % of a $50.00 visit is $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get

paid, we are not

willing to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

Bowser, L Ac

 

 

: pokerboy729:

Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was length

and duration of treatment

 

 

 

 

Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that 10% is high.You should be able to find someone

for 5-8% depending on the amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't

bill much so if you onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the

higher 8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams wrote:>>

that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to > this

discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems excessive to

me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the

years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total.

Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up practicing and open a billing

service!!> >> > _____> >> > Chinese Medicine >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> >

[Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > > K

Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re: TCM -

Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected with a

small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small medical offices

(like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which

seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all

the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them.

That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my business. The

10%> > is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't collect, I> >

don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always collect'. This> > kind of

business is a growing niche business. Some folks will doit for> > swaps -

treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R. Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons),

BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> > 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> >

413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333> >> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank

you for the reply.> > > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am

really new to> > > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like

to think> > > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has

mefeeling> > > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as

the> > > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > >

paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> >

>> > > Steve> > >> > > > > > Boardwalk for

$500? In 2007? Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's

economy) at> > > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

>-------------------------> > >> > >No virus

found in this incoming message.> > >> > >Version:

7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007> > 16:46> > >> >

>> >> >

[Guest guest]

No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly

manner and learning how our friends do things.

 

If you are not billing very much then the 10% will probably not

bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an

extra few thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure

others would too.

 

I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

volume though.

 

Thanks,

Elie

Directory

http://www.tcmdirectory.com

 

Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1 wrote:

>

> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then 10%? I had one

years ago for 10% and

> she was great also know of another biller hired by a LAc also for

that magical 10%. There

> is a lot more going on with insurance then simply file a bill and

it is part of what a biller also

> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company

will hire at least one full-time

> salaried person for this type of position. So I wonder why we are

arguing over small change.

> Ten % of a $50.00 visit is $5.00. So what I am hearing is that

for us to get paid, we are not

> willing to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this

thinking. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

>

> : pokerboy729: Sun, 20 May

2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was length

and duration of treatment

>

>

>

>

> Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that 10% is high.You should be able

to find someone for 5-8% depending on the amountyou bill. I know

lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you onlybill small

amounts they will most likely charge you the higher 8%.ElieChinese

Medicine Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@>

wrote:>> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody

else add to > this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > >

That price seems excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed.

I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the years I've used my

particularservice.> > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for

10%, I think I mightjust> > give up practicing and open a billing

service!!> >> > _____> >> >

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> >

[Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf

Of > > K Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> > Subject:

Re: Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I

just connected with a small business owner who does> > billing to

insurance for small medical offices (like acupuncturists).> > She

knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which seems reasonableto me>

> (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all the

contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with

them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my

business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says if she

doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche

business. Some folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> >

Karen> >> > Karen R. Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four

Directions Healing Arts> > 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376>

> 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333> >> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > >

Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm wondering if anyone is

billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing and it is an

absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm fairly

bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite

dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > >

only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting>

> > paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you

for your time> > >> > > Steve> > >> > > -----------------------------

----> > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here

and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at> > > Games.> >

>> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Karen,

I actually don't use billers anymore as I feel no one else will get

my money as well as I do

So I do my own billing.

 

But your billers should be doing just about everything.

When I was using a biller this is what I basically did:

I sent them patient info, copy of their insurance card, my diagnosis

(neck pain, back pain), What treatment I did (acupuncture, massage).

 

Then they billed, filed, followed up, collected ie. all that stuff

we don't like. They fill out the forms, you don't.

 

Thanks,

Elie

Directory

http://www.tcmdirectory.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine , K Adams

<k_r_adams wrote:

>

> this is interesting - what exactly do your billers do? do they

file all

> paperwork? help you fill out forms? what else?

> karen

>

> TCMdirectory.com wrote:

>

> > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that 10% is high.

> > You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

amount

> > you bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if

you only

> > bill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

8%.

> >

> > Elie

> > Directory

> > http://www.tcmdirectory.com <http://www.tcmdirectory.com>

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>, K Adams

> > <k_r_adams@> wrote:

> > >

> > > that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody

else add to

> > > this discussion?

> > > karen

> > >

> > > Barbara Beale wrote:

> > >

> > > > That price seems excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim

filed. I've

> > only

> > > > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the years I've used my

particular

> > service.

> > > > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I

might

> > just

> > > > give up practicing and open a billing service!!

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > [Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > <Chinese Medicine%40>] On

Behalf Of

> > > > K Adams

> > > > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM

> > > > Chinese Medicine

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > Re: Re: length and duration of treatment

> > > >

> > > > Hi Steve - I just connected with a small business owner who

does

> > > > billing to insurance for small medical offices (like

acupuncturists).

> > > > She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which seems

reasonable

> > to me

> > > > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all the

contacts,

> > > > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them.

That's

> > > > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my

business. The 10%

> > > > is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't

collect, I

> > > > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always

collect'. This

> > > > kind of business is a growing niche business. Some folks

will do

> > it for

> > > > swaps - treatment for work.

> > > > Karen

> > > >

> > > > Karen R. Adams

> > > > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS

> > > > Four Directions Healing Arts

> > > > 112 Avenue A

> > > > Turners Falls, MA 01376

> > > > 413-863-8033

> > > > 413-768-8333

> > > >

> > > > Steve Smith wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hello,

> > > > > Thank you for the reply.

> > > > > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really

new to

> > > > > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I

like to think

> > > > > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has

me

> > feeling

> > > > > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue

Shield as the

> > > > > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you

getting

> > > > > paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for your time

> > > > >

> > > > > Steve

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > > > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's

economy) at

> > > > > Games.

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify. I

was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of us

who

have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On another

note,

do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as good as

one

who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs.

I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower caliber

of employee

or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door open

and the lights on.

Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

: pokerboy729:

Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was length

and duration of treatment

 

 

 

 

No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner and

learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then the 10%

will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra few

thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would too.I

used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high volume

though.Thanks,Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then 10%? I had one years

ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another biller hired by a LAc also

for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more going on with insurance then simply

file a bill and it is part of what a biller also> follows up with unpaid claims.

By comparison, a large company will hire at least one full-time> salaried person

for this type of position. So I wonder why we are arguing over small change. >

Ten % of a $50.00 visit is $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get

paid, we are not> willing to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this

thinking. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac> > > :

pokerboy729: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by

proxy - was length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with

Barbara that 10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending

on the amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@> wrote:>>

that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to > this

discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems excessive to

me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2 treatments in the

years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it about 2.5%-3.5% total.

Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up practicing and open a billing

service!!> >> > _____> >> > Chinese Medicine >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> >

[Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > > K

Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re: TCM -

Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected with a

small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small medical offices

(like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and works for 10%, which

seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It means she has all

the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the dancing with them.

That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it expands my business. The

10%> > is only payable on collections. She says if she doesn't collect, I> >

don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I always collect'. This> > kind of

business is a growing niche business. Some folks will doit for> > swaps -

treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R. Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons),

BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> > 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> >

413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333> >> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank

you for the reply.> > > I'm wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am

really new to> > > billing and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like

to think> > > that I'm fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has

mefeeling> > > quite dumb. I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as

the> > > only company I file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > >

paid? How are you billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> >

>> > > Steve> > >> > > > > > Boardwalk for

$500? In 2007? Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's

economy) at> > > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

>-------------------------> > >> > >No virus

found in this incoming message.> > >> > >Version:

7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007> > 16:46> > >> >

>> >> >

[Guest guest]

My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person working

out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

(Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

 

On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes per

patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only reason

I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

" type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

 

I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

 

An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

chunk to spend.

 

Just another opinion...

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

Chinese Traditional Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify.

I

was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of

us who

have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On another

note,

do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as good

as one

who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs

 

I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

caliber of employee

or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door

open and the lights on.

Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

:

pokerboy729: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000Re:

billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

 

 

 

 

No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner and

learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then the

10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra few

thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high volume

though.Thanks,Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---

In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1@..> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then

10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more going

on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a biller

also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of position. So I

wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00 visit is

$5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not> willing

to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

Bowser, L Ac> > > : pokerboy729:

Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara that

10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@> wrote:>>

that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2

treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it

about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> >

[Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > > K

Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re: TCM

- Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

medical offices (like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and works

for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?). It

means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says if

she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche business. Some

folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R.

Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> >

112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333> >>

> Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm

wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing

and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm

fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite dumb.

I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company I

file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are you

billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > > Steve>

> >> > > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007?

Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at> >

> Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

>-------------------------> > >> > >No

virus found in this incoming message.> > >> >

>Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007> >

16:46> > >> > >> >> >

[Guest guest]

I was doing my own billing. Its not very hard but it takes time. When I

found myself giving up my Saturday to do billing I decided I was better off

paying for someone else to do it. I think it is well worth it. By the way, I

pay him 10%. He is worth every penny.

 

Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

321-961-6432

A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Barbara

Beale

Monday, May 21, 2007 7:51 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

 

My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person

working

out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

(Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

 

On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes

per

patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only

reason

I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

" type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

 

I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

 

An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

chunk to spend.

 

Just another opinion...

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

Chinese Traditional Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify.

I

was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of

us who

have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On

another

note,

do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as

good

as one

who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs

 

I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

caliber of employee

or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door

open and the lights on.

Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

:

pokerboy729: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000TCM -

Re:

billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

 

No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner

and

learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then

the

10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra

few

thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

volume

though.Thanks,Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---

In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1@..> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then

10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more

going

on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a biller

also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of position. So

I

wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00 visit is

$5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not>

willing

to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

Bowser, L Ac> > > : pokerboy729:

Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara

that

10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@> wrote:>>

that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2

treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it

about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> >

[Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > >

K

Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

Chinese Medicine > >

<Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re:

TCM

- Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

medical offices (like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and

works

for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?).

It

means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says

if

she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche business.

Some

folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R.

Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> >

112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333>

>>

> Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm

wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing

and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm

fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite

dumb.

I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company

I

file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are you

billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > >

Steve>

> >> > > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In

2007?

Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at>

>

> Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

>-------------------------> > >> > >No

virus found in this incoming message.> > >> >

>Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007>

>

16:46> > >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]>

>> >

[Guest guest]

That's awesome! Here is contact info for anyone interested of someone

I know who bills for 6-8% depending on volume.

 

Rajeev Rajagopal

Managed outsource Solutions

Web: www.managedoutsource.com

e mail: rajeev

ph # (516) 203 7332

Fax # (516) 403 1877

 

He lives in NY and works with people all over the country.

 

A few % really makes a diff. if you have or are shooting for a big

practice. I have not met anyone paying 10% in the past 10 years, and I

didn't think people charged that much anymore.

 

I know another acupuncturist in NYC who pays 6%

 

I would contact this guy and others and see what feels most

comfortable to you. Sure it's worth paying a little more for ease and

comfort...as long as your getting paid.

 

Elie

Directory

Add your website FREE!

http://www.tcmdirectory.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " Barbara Beale "

<bbeale wrote:

>

> My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person

working

> out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in

my area

> (Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

>

> On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

> learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2

minutes per

> patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

> including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The

only reason

> I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

> " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

> handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

> change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per

visit and

> just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own

billing for

> companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

>

> I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my

practice does

> all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks

I'm being

> archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes

seconds,

> and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

>

> An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

> security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K,

that's a

> chunk to spend.

>

> Just another opinion...

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

> Bowser

> Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

> I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to

qualify.

> I

> was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for

most of

> us who

> have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

> offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On

another

> note,

> do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really

as good

> as one

> who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your

operating costs

>

> I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

> caliber of employee

> or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the

door

> open and the lights on.

> Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

>

> :

> pokerboy729: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000Re:

> billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

>

>

>

>

> No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly

manner and

> learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much

then the

> 10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

> billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an

extra few

> thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

> too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

volume

> though.Thanks,Elieyhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---

> In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

> <naturaldoc1@> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then

> 10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

> biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot

more going

> on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a

biller

> also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

> hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of

position. So I

> wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00

visit is

> $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not>

willing

> to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

> Bowser, L Ac> > > @: pokerboy729@:

> Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with

Barbara that

> 10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

> amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

> onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

> 8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

> Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@>

wrote:>>

> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

> this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

> excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been

stiffed on 2

> treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it

> about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

> practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

> Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> >

> [Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf

Of > > K

> Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

> Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> > Subject:

Re: TCM

> - Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

> with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

> medical offices (like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done,

and works

> for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any

thoughts?). It

> means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

> dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

> expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She

says if

> she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

> always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche

business. Some

> folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> >

Karen R.

> Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing

Arts> >

> 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> >

413-768-8333> >>

> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> >

> I'm

> wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > >

billing

> and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > >

that I'm

> fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > >

quite dumb.

> I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only

company I

> file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How

are you

> billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> >

> Steve>

> > >> > > > > > Boardwalk for $500?

In 2007?

> Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's

economy) at> >

> > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

> >-------------------------> > >> > >No

> virus found in this incoming message.> > >Checked by AVG Free

Edition.> >

> >Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release

Date:14/05/2007> >

> 16:46> > >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]>

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Barb,

 

I have also done a lot of my own billing and even worked on the hospital

side/collections side

of things. What you describe sounds good but tends to be rare. A freelance

person who works

doing this out of their house does have less overhead and hopefully she is

effective. I am curious

as to your insurance laws in WA and if acupuncture is a mandated coverage item.

In some states,

we are seeing denials as not medically necessary as well as cutoffs quicker with

IME's. BTW, have

you tired using a fillable hcfa form like that found on cigna.com website? You

can fill it in and print

off two copies, one for insr and one for record. You would need to see about

$150,000 worth of

just insr claims at 10% in order to pay out $15K and there would be no

employment taxes, etc. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

: bbeale: Mon,

21 May 2007 16:51:09 -0700RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length

and duration of treatment

 

 

 

 

My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person workingout

of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area(Washington

state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.On another note,

billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just anotherlearning curve. I did it

for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes perpatient and I tend to see

35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,including phone calls, I may have

spent 3 hours on billing. The only reasonI got a billing person is that some

insurance companies were requiring " type-written " or computer-generated HICF

forms; I was making a master,handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all

the stuff that doesn'tchange from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of

it per visit andjust filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own

billing forcompanies that allow a hand-written HICF.I haven't looked into it

yet, but another practitioner in my practice doesall her billing electronically

from a free web-site. She thinks I'm beingarchaic with my method of hand-written

copies because hers takes seconds,and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks. An employee

can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus socialsecurity, benefits,

etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's achunk to spend. Just another

opinion...

Chinese Medicine [Chinese Medicine\

@] On Behalf Of mikeBowserMonday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PMTo:

Chinese Traditional Medicine: RE: Re: billing by

proxy - was length and duration oftreatmentI am unaware of any LAc that generate

that volume of insurance to qualify.Iwas simply pointing out that suppositions

are fine but reality for most ofus whohave used a biller may not go below 10%.

In many of the local chirooffices, they routinely hire for this position and pay

a salary. On anothernote,do you believe that a biller who collects and receives

4% is really as goodas onewho does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce

your operating costsI tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings

in a lowercaliber of employeeor a less effective collections co and collections

is what keeps the dooropen and the lights on. Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L

AcTo:

Chinese Medicine:pokerboy729: Mon,

21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000Re:billing by proxy - was length and

duration of treatmentNo one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a

friendly manner andlearning how our friends do things.If you are not billing

very much then the10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of

$50,000 inbilling/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an

extra fewthousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others

wouldtoo.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

volumethough.Thanks,Elieyhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---In'>http://www.tcmdirectory.com---In

Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser<naturaldoc1@..>

wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then10%? I had one years

ago for 10% and> she was great also know of anotherbiller hired by a LAc also

for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more goingon with insurance then simply

file a bill and it is part of what a billeralso> follows up with unpaid claims.

By comparison, a large company willhire at least one full-time> salaried person

for this type of position. So Iwonder why we are arguing over small change. >

Ten % of a $50.00 visit is$5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get

paid, we are not> willingto pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this

thinking. Mike W.Bowser, L Ac> > > :

pokerboy729:Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by

proxy - waslength and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with

Barbara that10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on

theamountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if

youonlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the

higher8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---

InChinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@>

wrote:>>that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to

>this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seemsexcessive

to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2treatments in

the years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes itabout 2.5%-3.5% total.

Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give uppracticing and open a billing

service!!> >> > _____> >> > Chinese Medicine >

><Chinese Medicine%40>>

>[Chinese Medicine >

><Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > >

KAdams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> >

To:Chinese Medicine >

><Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re: TCM-

Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connectedwith a

small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for smallmedical offices

(like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and worksfor 10%, which seems

reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?). Itmeans she has all the

contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all thedancing with them. That's> >

actually worth it to me, especially if itexpands my business. The 10%> > is only

payable on collections. She says ifshe doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything

on that claim - and adds 'Ialways collect'. This> > kind of business is a

growing niche business. Somefolks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.>

> Karen> >> > Karen R.Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions

Healing Arts> >112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> >

413-768-8333> >>> Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the

reply.> > > I'mwondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > >

billingand it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that

I'mfairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite dumb.I

have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company Ifile.

Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are youbilling?

Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > > Steve>> >> > >

> > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007?Ha!> > > Play

Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at> >> Games.> >

>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved]> > >> > >> > >>

>>-------------------------> > >> > >Novirus

found in this incoming message.> > >> >>Version:

7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007> >16:46> > >> >

>> >> >

[Guest guest]

In Marilyn Allen class, she told us about Office Ally, officeally.com who will

submit

medically billing for free and are paid by the insurance company. My weak

recollection

think she said something $1 - 0.25 cents per claim - not sure " . It's free for

the health

provider.

 

I also learned that one of my teacher today who is using their clinic

management/billing

software that is webbased because of Marilyn Allen.

 

I do not have any experience with their products and services because I am still

a student.

Marilyn Allen repeatedly reminded us the importance of planning for the day you

get your

license to establish our practice by planning for it now. I took it to heart

when she said, " it

should not be a surprise " and plan for a successful practice because there just

isn't

enough of us.

 

best,

 

Karen Hope

Samra class of 2009

Los Angeles, CA

 

== from http://www.officeally.com web site, ===

 

Q: What are the set-up fees, monthly fees, and per-claim fees?

A: There are no set-up fees or monthly fees and we do not charge for electronic

claims

submission! We are essentially a free clearing house. An optional printing

service is

available to our users; for $0.25 per claim we will print and mail any HCFAs

that cannot be

sent electronically (i.e. the insurance company is not on our payer list or your

pre-

enrollment is not completed for that insurance company). This printing service

is optional

- you select whether you would like this feature or not. The only exception to

this is users

who send us primarily Medicare and Medi-Cal claims. If more that 50% of your

monthly

claim volume is made up of those payers, then the service is a flat fee of

$19.95 per

month plus any printing charges, if applicable. There are no fees for customer

service or

technical support, which is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

[back To Top]

Q: If there are no fees, how do you stay in business?

A: We, like all clearinghouses, are reimbursed by the insurance companies.

However,

unlike most other clearinghouses, Office Ally elects not to charge the provider.

[back To Top]

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Barbara Beale "

<bbeale

wrote:

>

> My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person working

> out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

> (Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

>

> On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

> learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes per

> patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

> including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only reason

> I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

> " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

> handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

> change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

> just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

> companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

>

> I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

> all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

> archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

> and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

>

> An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

> security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

> chunk to spend.

>

> Just another opinion...

>

[Guest guest]

Lee: Are you a provider with an insurance company? If so, what is your take on

it?

 

Anne

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Acudoc " <acudoc

> I was doing my own billing. Its not very hard but it takes time. When I

> found myself giving up my Saturday to do billing I decided I was better off

> paying for someone else to do it. I think it is well worth it. By the way, I

> pay him 10%. He is worth every penny.

>

> Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

> 321-961-6432

> A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Barbara

> Beale

> Monday, May 21, 2007 7:51 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

>

> My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person

> working

> out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

> (Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

>

> On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

> learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes

> per

> patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

> including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only

> reason

> I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

> " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

> handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

> change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

> just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

> companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

>

> I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

> all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

> archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

> and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

>

> An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

> security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

> chunk to spend.

>

> Just another opinion...

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

> Bowser

> Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

> I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify.

> I

> was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of

> us who

> have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

> offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On

> another

> note,

> do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as

> good

> as one

> who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs

>

> I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

> caliber of employee

> or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door

> open and the lights on.

> Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> :

> pokerboy729: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000TCM -

> Re:

> billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

>

> No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner

> and

> learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then

> the

> 10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

> billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra

> few

> thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

> too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

> volume

> though.Thanks,Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com---

> In Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser

> <naturaldoc1@..> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less then

> 10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

> biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more

> going

> on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a biller

> also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

> hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of position. So

> I

> wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00 visit is

> $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not>

> willing

> to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

> Bowser, L Ac> > > : pokerboy729:

> Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara

> that

> 10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

> amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

> onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

> 8%.Elie Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- In

> Chinese Medicine , K Adams<k_r_adams@> wrote:>>

> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

> this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

> excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2

> treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.> > That makes it

> about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

> practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

> Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> >

> [Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>] On Behalf Of > >

> K

> Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

> Chinese Medicine > >

> <Chinese Medicine%40>> > Re:

> TCM

> - Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

> with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

> medical offices (like acupuncturists).> > She knows how it's done, and

> works

> for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?).

> It

> means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

> dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

> expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says

> if

> she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

> always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche business.

> Some

> folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R.

> Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> >

> 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333>

> >>

> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm

> wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing

> and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm

> fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite

> dumb.

> I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company

> I

> file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are you

> billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > >

> Steve>

> > >> > > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In

> 2007?

> Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at>

> >

> > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

> >-------------------------> > >> > >No

> virus found in this incoming message.> > >> >

> >Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007>

> >

> 16:46> > >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]>

> >> >

[Guest guest]

I have an NPl number and a BCBS number, but I am not signed on with any of

them. I was actually advised against it.

 

 

 

I tried to get on with Avmed a few months back. I have 2 patients with them.

They turned me down because they said they have too many providers in the

area. They must be hidden, because my patients couldn’t find them. (They

would use me anyway.) They wouldn’t pay for my services because I am out of

network.

 

 

 

We need to get HR 1479 to go through. This is the Federal Acupuncture

Coverage Act. Most of the insurance companies use Medicare coverage as a

guideline for their coverage. If they will pay for service, the other

insurances will follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

anne.crowley

Friday, June 01, 2007 9:25 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

 

 

Lee: Are you a provider with an insurance company? If so, what is your take

on it?

 

Anne

--------------- Original message ------------------------

" Acudoc " <HYPERLINK " acudoc%40cfl.rr.com " acudoc.-com>

> I was doing my own billing. Its not very hard but it takes time. When I

> found myself giving up my Saturday to do billing I decided I was better

off

> paying for someone else to do it. I think it is well worth it. By the way,

I

> pay him 10%. He is worth every penny.

>

> Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

> 321-961-6432

> A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

>

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com]On Behalf Of Barbara

> Beale

> Monday, May 21, 2007 7:51 PM

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

>

> My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person

> working

> out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

> (Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

>

> On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

> learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes

> per

> patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

> including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only

> reason

> I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

> " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

> handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

> change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

> just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

> companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

>

> I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

> all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

> archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

> and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

>

> An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

> security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

> chunk to spend.

>

> Just another opinion...

>

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com] On Behalf Of mike

> Bowser

> Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Traditional Medicine%40 " traditional_-chinese_

medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

> I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify.

> I

> was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of

> us who

> have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

> offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On

> another

> note,

> do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as

> good

> as one

> who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs

>

> I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

> caliber of employee

> or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door

> open and the lights on.

> Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40From " Traditional_-Chin

ese_Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> HYPERLINK " pokerboy729%40gmail.comDate " pokerboy729@-gmail.comDate:

Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000TCM -

> Re:

> billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

>

> No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner

> and

> learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then

> the

> 10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

> billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra

> few

> thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

> too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

> volume

> though.Thanks,-Elie HYPERLINK

" Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- " Directoryhttp:-//www.tcmdirecto-ry.

com---

> In HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com, mike Bowser

> <naturaldoc1@-..> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less

then

> 10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

> biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more

> going

> on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a biller

> also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

> hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of position. So

> I

> wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00 visit is

> $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not>

> willing

> to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

> Bowser, L Ac> > > Traditional_-Chinese_Medicine-:

pokerboy729@-...:

> Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara

> that

> 10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

> amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

> onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

> 8%.Elie HYPERLINK

" Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- " Directoryhttp:-//www.tcmdirecto-ry.

com--- In

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com, K Adams<k_r_adams@-> wrote:>>

> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

> this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

> excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2

> treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.-> > That makes it

> about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

> practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>> >

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>] On Behalf Of

> >

> K

> Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>> > Subject:

Re:

> TCM

> - Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

> with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

> medical offices (like acupuncturists)-.> > She knows how it's done, and

> works

> for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?).

> It

> means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

> dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

> expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says

> if

> she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

> always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche business.

> Some

> folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R.

> Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> >

> 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333>

> >>

> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm

> wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing

> and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm

> fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite

> dumb.

> I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company

> I

> file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are you

> billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > >

> Steve>

> > >> > > ---> > > Boardwalk for $500? In

> 2007?

> Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at>

> >

> > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

> >-------------------------------> > >> >

>No

> virus found in this incoming message.> > >> >

> >Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007>

> >

> 16:46> > >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]>

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Whoops, it was Aetna, not Avmed.

Lee

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acudoc

Friday, June 01, 2007 2:30 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

I have an NPl number and a BCBS number, but I am not signed on with any of

them. I was actually advised against it.

 

 

 

I tried to get on with Avmed a few months back. I have 2 patients with them.

They turned me down because they said they have too many providers in the

area. They must be hidden, because my patients couldn’t find them. (They

would use me anyway.) They wouldn’t pay for my services because I am out of

network.

 

 

 

We need to get HR 1479 to go through. This is the Federal Acupuncture

Coverage Act. Most of the insurance companies use Medicare coverage as a

guideline for their coverage. If they will pay for service, the other

insurances will follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

anne.crowley

Friday, June 01, 2007 9:25 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

treatment

 

 

 

Lee: Are you a provider with an insurance company? If so, what is your take

on it?

 

Anne

--------------- Original message ------------------------

" Acudoc " <HYPERLINK " acudoc%40cfl.rr.com " acudoc.-com>

> I was doing my own billing. Its not very hard but it takes time. When I

> found myself giving up my Saturday to do billing I decided I was better

off

> paying for someone else to do it. I think it is well worth it. By the way,

I

> pay him 10%. He is worth every penny.

>

> Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

> 321-961-6432

> A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

>

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com]On Behalf Of Barbara

> Beale

> Monday, May 21, 2007 7:51 PM

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

>

> My billing person charges about 3% and is a local, individual person

> working

> out of her home. She does excellent work. I've gotten flyers in my area

> (Washington state) from other such people, so I know they are out there.

>

> On another note, billing it yourself is not difficult; it's just another

> learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took approximately 1-2 minutes

> per

> patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week. I'd say in a week,

> including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on billing. The only

> reason

> I got a billing person is that some insurance companies were requiring

> " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I was making a master,

> handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all the stuff that doesn't

> change from treatment to treatment, making a photocopy of it per visit and

> just filling in the date and cost each time. I still do my own billing for

> companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

>

> I haven't looked into it yet, but another practitioner in my practice does

> all her billing electronically from a free web-site. She thinks I'm being

> archaic with my method of hand-written copies because hers takes seconds,

> and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

>

> An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to full-time)plus social

> security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making upwards of $120K, that's a

> chunk to spend.

>

> Just another opinion...

>

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com] On Behalf Of mike

> Bowser

> Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Traditional Medicine%40 " traditional_-chinese_

medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

>

> I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume of insurance to qualify.

> I

> was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine but reality for most of

> us who

> have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many of the local chiro

> offices, they routinely hire for this position and pay a salary. On

> another

> note,

> do you believe that a biller who collects and receives 4% is really as

> good

> as one

> who does this at 10%? There are many ways to reduce your operating costs

>

> I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate only brings in a lower

> caliber of employee

> or a less effective collections co and collections is what keeps the door

> open and the lights on.

> Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40From " Traditional_-Chin

ese_Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> HYPERLINK " pokerboy729%40gmail.comDate " pokerboy729@-gmail.comDate:

Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000TCM -

> Re:

> billing by proxy - was length and duration of treatment

>

> No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing " in a friendly manner

> and

> learning how our friends do things.If you are not billing very much then

> the

> 10% will probably not bother you too much. But over a year of $50,000 in

> billing/collection will add up and I know I would love to make an extra

> few

> thousand dollars by paying a biller 5% or so, as I am sure others would

> too.I used to work with others that paid a biller 4%. They were high

> volume

> though.Thanks,-Elie HYPERLINK

" Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- " Directoryhttp:-//www.tcmdirecto-ry.

com---

> In HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com, mike Bowser

> <naturaldoc1@-..> wrote:>> Has anyone actually hired a biller for less

then

> 10%? I had one years ago for 10% and> she was great also know of another

> biller hired by a LAc also for that magical 10%. There> is a lot more

> going

> on with insurance then simply file a bill and it is part of what a biller

> also> follows up with unpaid claims. By comparison, a large company will

> hire at least one full-time> salaried person for this type of position. So

> I

> wonder why we are arguing over small change. > Ten % of a $50.00 visit is

> $5.00. So what I am hearing is that for us to get paid, we are not>

> willing

> to pay this amount. We will not get ahead with this thinking. Mike W.

> Bowser, L Ac> > > Traditional_-Chinese_Medicine-:

pokerboy729@-...:

> Sun, 20 May 2007 18:02:08 +0000Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of treatment> > > > > Hi, yes I agree with Barbara

> that

> 10% is high.You should be able to find someone for 5-8% depending on the

> amountyou bill. I know lots of acupuncturists don't bill much so if you

> onlybill small amounts they will most likely charge you the higher

> 8%.Elie HYPERLINK

" Directoryhttp://www.tcmdirectory.com--- " Directoryhttp:-//www.tcmdirecto-ry.

com--- In

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com, K Adams<k_r_adams@-> wrote:>>

> that's very interesting - and carries some weight. Anybody else add to >

> this discussion?> karen> > Barbara Beale wrote:> > > That price seems

> excessive to me. I pay 2.50 per claim filed. I'veonly> > been stiffed on 2

> treatments in the years I've used my particularservice.-> > That makes it

> about 2.5%-3.5% total. Boy, for 10%, I think I mightjust> > give up

> practicing and open a billing service!!> >> > _____> >> >

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>> >

> [HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>] On Behalf Of

> >

> K

> Adams> > Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:32 PM> > To:

> HYPERLINK

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com > >

> <Traditional-_Chinese_-Medicine%-40.-com>> > Subject:

Re:

> TCM

> - Re: length and duration of treatment> >> > Hi Steve - I just connected

> with a small business owner who does> > billing to insurance for small

> medical offices (like acupuncturists)-.> > She knows how it's done, and

> works

> for 10%, which seems reasonableto me> > (anyone else got any thoughts?).

> It

> means she has all the contacts,> > knows all the companies, does all the

> dancing with them. That's> > actually worth it to me, especially if it

> expands my business. The 10%> > is only payable on collections. She says

> if

> she doesn't collect, I> > don't owe anything on that claim - and adds 'I

> always collect'. This> > kind of business is a growing niche business.

> Some

> folks will doit for> > swaps - treatment for work.> > Karen> >> > Karen R.

> Adams> > Lic Ac, Dipl Ac, BA(Hons), BS> > Four Directions Healing Arts> >

> 112 Avenue A> > Turners Falls, MA 01376> > 413-863-8033> > 413-768-8333>

> >>

> > Steve Smith wrote:> >> > > Hello,> > > Thank you for the reply.> > > I'm

> wondering if anyone is billing insurance? I am really new to> > > billing

> and it is an absolutely terrible experience. I like to think> > > that I'm

> fairly bright. However, this filing insurance has mefeeling> > > quite

> dumb.

> I have started simple with Blue Cross/Blue Shield as the> > > only company

> I

> file. Is anyone billing? If so what are you getting> > > paid? How are you

> billing? Paper or Online?> > >> > > Thank you for your time> > >> > >

> Steve>

> > >> > > ---> > > Boardwalk for $500? In

> 2007?

> Ha!> > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at>

> >

> > Games.> > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]> > >> > >> > >> >

> >-------------------------------> > >> >

>No

> virus found in this incoming message.> > >> >

> >Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/804 - Release Date:14/05/2007>

> >

> 16:46> > >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]>

> >> >

[Guest guest]

I am wondering about this free online insurance

billing. Any info?

--- acudoc <acudoc wrote:

 

> Whoops, it was Aetna, not Avmed.

> Lee

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

Chinese Medicine

> On Behalf Of acudoc

> Friday, June 01, 2007 2:30 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length

> and duration of

> treatment

>

> I have an NPl number and a BCBS number, but I am not

> signed on with any of

> them. I was actually advised against it.

>

>

>

> I tried to get on with Avmed a few months back. I

> have 2 patients with them.

> They turned me down because they said they have too

> many providers in the

> area. They must be hidden, because my patients

> couldn’t find them. (They

> would use me anyway.) They wouldn’t pay for my

> services because I am out of

> network.

>

>

>

> We need to get HR 1479 to go through. This is the

> Federal Acupuncture

> Coverage Act. Most of the insurance companies use

> Medicare coverage as a

> guideline for their coverage. If they will pay for

> service, the other

> insurances will follow.

>

_____

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

Chinese Medicine

> On Behalf Of

> anne.crowley

> Friday, June 01, 2007 9:25 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Re: billing by proxy - was length

> and duration of

> treatment

>

>

>

> Lee: Are you a provider with an insurance company?

> If so, what is your take

> on it?

>

> Anne

> --------------- Original message

> ------------------------

> " Acudoc " <HYPERLINK

> " acudoc%40cfl.rr.com " acudoc.-com>

> > I was doing my own billing. Its not very hard but

> it takes time. When I

> > found myself giving up my Saturday to do billing I

> decided I was better

> off

> > paying for someone else to do it. I think it is

> well worth it. By the way,

> I

> > pay him 10%. He is worth every penny.

> >

> > Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

> > 321-961-6432

> > A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

> >

> >

> > HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

> Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> > [HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

> Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com]On Behalf Of Barbara

> > Beale

> > Monday, May 21, 2007 7:51 PM

> > HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

> Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> > RE: Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of

> > treatment

> >

> >

> > My billing person charges about 3% and is a local,

> individual person

> > working

> > out of her home. She does excellent work. I've

> gotten flyers in my area

> > (Washington state) from other such people, so I

> know they are out there.

> >

> > On another note, billing it yourself is not

> difficult; it's just another

> > learning curve. I did it for 8 years, it took

> approximately 1-2 minutes

> > per

> > patient and I tend to see 35-40 patients per week.

> I'd say in a week,

> > including phone calls, I may have spent 3 hours on

> billing. The only

> > reason

> > I got a billing person is that some insurance

> companies were requiring

> > " type-written " or computer-generated HICF forms; I

> was making a master,

> > handwritten copy for each patient, filling in all

> the stuff that doesn't

> > change from treatment to treatment, making a

> photocopy of it per visit and

> > just filling in the date and cost each time. I

> still do my own billing for

> > companies that allow a hand-written HICF.

> >

> > I haven't looked into it yet, but another

> practitioner in my practice does

> > all her billing electronically from a free

> web-site. She thinks I'm being

> > archaic with my method of hand-written copies

> because hers takes seconds,

> > and she's paid in 2 to 3 weeks.

> >

> > An employee can run you $15,000 - $35,000 (part to

> full-time)plus social

> > security, benefits, etc. Unless you're making

> upwards of $120K, that's a

> > chunk to spend.

> >

> > Just another opinion...

> >

> >

> > HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

> Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> > [HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40 " Traditional_-Chinese_

> Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com] On Behalf Of mike

> > Bowser

> > Monday, May 21, 2007 3:43 PM

> > HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Traditional Medicine%40 " traditional_-chinese_

> medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> > RE: Re: billing by proxy - was

> length and duration of

> > treatment

> >

> > I am unaware of any LAc that generate that volume

> of insurance to qualify.

> > I

> > was simply pointing out that suppositions are fine

> but reality for most of

> > us who

> > have used a biller may not go below 10%. In many

> of the local chiro

> > offices, they routinely hire for this position and

> pay a salary. On

> > another

> > note,

> > do you believe that a biller who collects and

> receives 4% is really as

> > good

> > as one

> > who does this at 10%? There are many ways to

> reduce your operating costs

> >

> > I tend to think that hiring at a lower pay rate

> only brings in a lower

> > caliber of employee

> > or a less effective collections co and collections

> is what keeps the door

> > open and the lights on.

> > Just my opinion.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > HYPERLINK

>

" Chinese Medicine%40From " Traditional_-Chin

> ese_Medicine- (AT) (DOT) -com

> > HYPERLINK

>

" pokerboy729%40gmail.comDate " pokerboy729@-gmail.comDate:

> Mon, 21 May 2007 14:23:27 +0000TCM -

> > Re:

> > billing by proxy - was length and duration of

> treatment

> >

> > No one is arguing here. We are just " note sharing "

> in a friendly manner

> > and

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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