Guest guest Posted May 7, 2007 Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 I agree with Z'ev in that it is my contention that Chinese Medical Science is every bit as scientific as Conventional, and perhaps less corrupted by academia as Conventional medical science. is here in the US. David Molony In a message dated 5/2/07 12:11:15 AM, zrosenbe writes: > > Mike, > I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel no need to cater to an > intellectual fashion, i.e. scientism, to try to explain the channels > in a way that they are probably not intended to be. By this I mean > the generations of physicians who worked with Chinese medical > principles in an effective manner. I don't think that we have to > have a physiological basis for every concept in medicine. Perhaps at > some point an informational, systems theory model will become > widespread enough that channel theory will be understood beyond the > limitations of what is conventional 'wisdom' at this point. > > > On May 1, 2007, at 8:48 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > > > Zev, > > > > Maybe this is what is really the mai and we are simply starting to > > access it. It might not be a necessity although I happen to think it > > will make our profession more accepted and may lead to better > > clinical outcomes when we understand it more completely. There > > are many graduates from different schools that for one reason or > > another have never really accepted the classical ideas of the mai > > and most likely will not until someone can show it to them. In other > > words, we may continue to be a fragmented profession over this > > simple and fundamental issue much like the chiropractors on > > subluxation. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > To: > > Traditional_Traditional_<wbrTraditional_Traditi:zrosenbe > > te: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:40:22 -0700Re: Bonghan Ducts > > revisited > > > > I have to agree with Phil. Although the article was very > > interesting to read, I still cannot understand the need for a > > physical model to explain acupuncture channels. In my opinion, a > > much better model is an informational model, such as the one > > developed by Dr. Yoshio Manaka and explained in his book, " Chasing > > the Dragon's Tail " (Paradigm Press). Basically, he sees the body > > and its physiological structures as 'hardware', and the channel > > system as 'software'. They are not dependent on structures, but on > > systematic relationships of interactions of body systems. They are > > the built-in 'intelligence' of the body.On May 1, > > 2007, at 5:41 AM, wrote:>> Phil's comment: Based on the > > data in the article, we are a light-years> [pardon the pun!] away > > from confirming the existence of an > integrated 3-D> network of > > Channels that corresponds anatomically or functionally > with the> > > classical Jingluo system.[Non- classical Jingluo system.[ > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > Discover the new Windows Vista > > http://search.http://search.<whttp://search.http: & mkt=mkt=< & form=form > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Let's not be naive with the second part of the sentence...... " perhaps less corrupted by academia.. " . Corruption appears to run rampant in all domains leaving very little untouched. Richard In a message dated 05/07/07 10:42:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, acuman1 writes: I agree with Z'ev in that it is my contention that Chinese Medical Science is every bit as scientific as Conventional, and perhaps less corrupted by academia as Conventional medical science. is here in the US. David Molony In a message dated 5/2/07 12:11:15 AM, _zrosenbe_ (zrosenbe) writes: > > Mike, > I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel no need to cater to an > intellectual fashion, i.e. scientism, to try to explain the channels > in a way that they are probably not intended to be. By this I mean > the generations of physicians who worked with Chinese medical > principles in an effective manner. I don't think that we have to > have a physiological basis for every concept in medicine. Perhaps at > some point an informational, systems theory model will become > widespread enough that channel theory will be understood beyond the > limitations of what is conventional 'wisdom' at this point. > > > On May 1, 2007, at 8:48 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > > > Zev, > > > > Maybe this is what is really the mai and we are simply starting to > > access it. It might not be a necessity although I happen to think it > > will make our profession more accepted and may lead to better > > clinical outcomes when we understand it more completely. There > > are many graduates from different schools that for one reason or > > another have never really accepted the classical ideas of the mai > > and most likely will not until someone can show it to them. In other > > words, we may continue to be a fragmented profession over this > > simple and fundamental issue much like the chiropractors on > > subluxation. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > To: > > Traditional_ Traditi<wbrTraditional_wbrTradi_zrosenbe_ (zrosenbe) > > te: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:40:22 -0700Re: Bonghan Ducts > > revisited > > > > I have to agree with Phil. Although the article was very > > interesting to read, I still cannot understand the need for a > > physical model to explain acupuncture channels. In my opinion, a > > much better model is an informational model, such as the one > > developed by Dr. Yoshio Manaka and explained in his book, " Chasing > > the Dragon's Tail " (Paradigm Press). Basically, he sees the body > > and its physiological structures as 'hardware', and the channel > > system as 'software'. They are not dependent on structures, but on > > systematic relationships of interactions of body systems. They are > > the built-in 'intelligence' of the body.On May 1, > > 2007, at 5:41 AM, wrote:>> Phil's comment: Based on the > > data in the article, we are a light-years> [pardon the pun!] away > > from confirming the existence of an > integrated 3-D> network of > > Channels that corresponds anatomically or functionally > with the> > > classical Jingluo system.[Non- classical Jingluo system.[ > > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________ > > Discover the new Windows Vista > > _http://search.http://search._ (http://search.http//search.) <_whttp://search.whttp & mkt=mkt=_ (whttp://search.http: & mkt=mkt=/) < & form=form > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > " No one wants advice- only corroboration. " John Steinbeck David Molony 101 Bridge Street Catasauqua, PA 18032 Phone (610)264-2755 Fax (610) 264-7292 **********Confident**********Con ********** This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from your system. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 My original response to this question was about the scientific works and not about politics of science which many of us may see as corrupted with special interest money from the pharma and medical industries. For those who asked, I forwarded several pdf studies on this topic. Whether or not we as individuals want to believe what these are or are not is up to us individually. The fact is that there is/are structure(s) that follow the jing luo mai and in many places around the globe are being termed acupuncture channels or Bonghan ducts. For me, these can add additional information that might add clinical pearls to diagnosis and treatment.Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : habeas_1: acudoc11: Tue, 8 May 2007 09:40:15 -0400Re: Re: TCM - Bonghan Ducts revisited Let's not be naive with the second part of the sentence...... " perhaps less corrupted by academia.. " . Corruption appears to run rampant in all domains leaving very little untouched.RichardIn a message dated 05/07/07 10:42:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, acuman1 writes:I agree with Z'ev in that it is my contention that Chinese Medical Science is every bit as scientific as Conventional, and perhaps less corrupted by academia as Conventional medical science. is here in the US.David MolonyIn a message dated 5/2/07 12:11:15 AM, _zrosenbe_ (zrosenbe) writes:> > Mike,> I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel no need to cater to an> intellectual fashion, i.e. scientism, to try to explain the channels> in a way that they are probably not intended to be. By this I mean> the generations of physicians who worked with Chinese medical> principles in an effective manner. I don't think that we have to> have a physiological basis for every concept in medicine. Perhaps at> some point an informational, systems theory model will become> widespread enough that channel theory will be understood beyond the> limitations of what is conventional 'wisdom' at this point.> > > On May 1, 2007, at 8:48 PM, mike Bowser wrote:> > > Zev,> >> > Maybe this is what is really the mai and we are simply starting to> > access it. It might not be a necessity although I happen to think it> > will make our profession more accepted and may lead to better> > clinical outcomes when we understand it more completely. There> > are many graduates from different schools that for one reason or> > another have never really accepted the classical ideas of the mai> > and most likely will not until someone can show it to them. In other> > words, we may continue to be a fragmented profession over this> > simple and fundamental issue much like the chiropractors on> > subluxation. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac> >> > To:> > Traditional_ Traditi<wbrTraditional_wbrTradi_zrosenbe_ (zrosenbe) > > te: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:40:22 -0700Subject: Re: Bonghan Ducts> > revisited> >> > I have to agree with Phil. Although the article was very> > interesting to read, I still cannot understand the need for a> > physical model to explain acupuncture channels. In my opinion, a> > much better model is an informational model, such as the one> > developed by Dr. Yoshio Manaka and explained in his book, " Chasing> > the Dragon's Tail " (Paradigm Press). Basically, he sees the body> > and its physiological structures as 'hardware', and the channel> > system as 'software'. They are not dependent on structures, but on> > systematic relationships of interactions of body systems. They are> > the built-in 'intelligence' of the body.Z'ev RosenbergOn May 1,> > 2007, at 5:41 AM, wrote:>> Phil's comment: Based on the> > data in the article, we are a light-years> [pardon the pun!] away> > from confirming the existence of an > integrated 3-D> network of> > Channels that corresponds anatomically or functionally > with the>> > classical Jingluo system.[Non- classical Jingluo system.[> > ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________> > Discover the new Windows Vista> > _http://search.http://search._ (http://search.http//search.) <_whttp://search.whttp & mkt=mkt=_ (whttp://search.http: & mkt=mkt=/) < & form=form> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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