Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Attilio, more power to you for being yourself and walking on your path. I don't think anyone has to conform to anyone else's standards, unless it hurts others. When I first became lacto-vegetarian, it was in response to being an extreme carnivore. First, letting go of red-meats, then white meats and fish. Then eliminating eggs, but not dairy. I was drinking a lot of wheatgrass juice and exercised all day, losing 20 lbs. Later, I felt that I needed to add eggs back into my diet scheme to " fortify " me a bit more. Like you said, I needed some of that " yang " qi. I agree with the idea that animals are more yang in nature relative to plants in general. I'm just bringing up the point that plants may be seen as yang in nature in a different way, the qi that they give humans tends to be quicker and lighter. Animals give more solid, slower, heavier qi. Likewise, roots tend to me more yang than flowers in the sense of warmth qualities, ( roots can be anywhere from hot to cold, while flowers are almost always cooling) but in another sense, flowers are more yang in nature than roots in that they direct qi upwards and externally and also because they make quick changes in qi also. (Jeffrey Yuen talks about this; flowers change quickly and make quick changes in humans) Of course, most plants are " colder " than animals, so in this sense, animals are more yang in nature than plants from that view-point. It seems to be a koan, because the complexity doesn't allow for just an easy fit into a box. I think Chuang-tzu talks alot about this in response to the legalists and also other taoist sects of his time who labeled everything this and that. (not saying you're doing that, just saying that this stifles the creativity of seeing the components transform into something else) Some taoists that I've heard and read, say that animals have souls, while plants do not. Without going into any religious aspect of this, I can say that in my experience, plants may not have hun/po souls, yet there is a collective shen that is inherent in every species. As I ate more plant-life, this opened me up to communing with plants in a deeper way. As a meat-eater who didn't put attention or awareness into my diet, these doors did not open. However, one could be connected with animals in this same way by being a meat-eater. (just as the hunter-gatherers who cherished organ meat, such as the heart and liver of a fresh kill received nourishment and some kind of " spiritual " transference from these living organs. (the Weston Price Foundation talks about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is an interesting read) I think the issues are less about what you eat, but who you eat with if you eat with yourself, are you aware of what you're eating is it fresh and alive or dead. are you giving respect to the life qi it is giving you or just doing it as a force of habit. if you're eating with someone else, are you communing in a communal ritual and most importantly are you happy!? There's a poem that goes something like... I'd rather eat my sausage and beer with cheer than my peas and shrooms with gloom Funny thing is that I stopped this lifestyle when I got into Chinese medicine. Half of the people I knew going into CM school were vegetarians, only a few remain. I think that with CM, we discovered how we could be healthy as meat-eaters, utilizing CM principles and herbs, just like you as a vegetarian can be balanced without eating meat.! Can someone explain two things: I've heard that animal protein is more easily assimilate-able than plant proteins for human metabolism... How is this? Also, what about the idea of hormonal tissue correspondence between animals, such as pig pancreas being good for human pancreas etc. ? How does this work? Thanks. k. On 3/24/07, <attiliodalberto wrote: > > Hi John, > > Yes, plants are Yang in nature, but meat is muscle, which relates to > the Spleen, Spleen Yang and the source of Qi and Blood. I would say > the opposite, in that animals are more Yang and plants are more Yin. > Animals are often mammals, warm blooded and therefore Yang. Plants > are not warm blooded, they need the sun to gain their warmth and are > therefore more Yin. > > I have to admit, when I first started being a vegetarian I was proud > of what I was doing. Now, I just do it because I'm comfortable with > it. I'm not going to go into the religious/spiritual/philosophical > aspects of why I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not necessarily 'proud' > anymore. > > Attilio > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " " > > <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Mainly in clinic, the vegetarians seem to be more blood def. > > I'm not sure about yang def. > > plants are considered yang in the sense that they are light and > quick qi. > > Animals are more yin, in the sense that they are heavier and slower > and more > > solid qi. > > I guess it depends on the way that you look at it. > > > > When I was a lacto-vegetarian (7 years w/ eggs and dairy only), I > felt > > lighter, faster and clearer emotionally. > > However, I had pride that I was not eating meat and that isolated > me from > > some people. > > In Tibetan philosophy, there are cold hells as well as hot ones. > > In the cold ones, you get proud people. > > In the hot ones, you get angry people. > > This is kind of how I saw vegetarians (colder- more proud) > > and meat-eaters (hotter-more angry). > > > > However, as a lacto-vegetarian I could not endure as long and often > would > > crash in the late afternoon. > > That would make me want to eat chocolate and sweets. > > I'm wondering if my body wanted to balance the alkalinity with some > acids. > > Have you noticed how Whole Foods has a huge double organic > chocolate and > > organic sugary stuff section. > > In fact I noticed that most of my friends who were vegetarian, > > needed their sweet fix more than meat eaters. > > That could also be because their SP qi was weaker, eating a lot of > raw foods > > and needed a bit of sweet flavor in their diets. > > > > Also, there's the whole notion of blood types and fast and slow > metabolizers > > and doshas and element types. > > Since I'm predominately pitta, a mainly vegetarian diet is better > to keep me > > in balance. > > Also, I'm a blood type A, which means more vegetables and less meat. > > If I was O type, then maybe more meat, especially beef to fuel a > busy hunter > > lifestyle. > > > > Now I eat anything I want and am happy with that. > > Trying to eat organic and in season. > > Just need to exercise more and get more off-time. > > Like to hear what you successful vegetarians and meat-eaters do to > balance > > your bodies and souls. > > k. > > > > > > > > > > On 3/23/07, wrote: > > > > > > Hi Attilio, > > > > > > As Z'ev mentioned, neither he nor I are actually vegetarians. > Personally, > > > I do not eat red meat of any kind, nor dairy of any kind. My > daily diet > > > consists of organic eggs, fish, grains (mostly white organic > basmati rice), > > > avocado and Humous, and lots of cooked vegetables. I also have a > whole grain > > > spelt bagel each morning, with almond butter. Once a week, on the > Sabbath, I > > > eat free range chicken. I don't eat any soy, as it makes me feel > bad. > > > > > > I am very sensitive to what I eat, and consciously avoid those > foods that > > > are harmful for me, individually. As a mentioned, I use the Coca > pulse test, > > > if I have any suspicion. By eating what is good for me, getting > adequate > > > sleep, walking at least a half hour twice a day whenever > possible, doing > > > work that is incredibly fulfilling, being very much in love and > being loved > > > by my significant other, not letting things bother me, and using > herbs > > > whenever I am feeling like I am getting out of balance, I feel > like a young > > > colt, even though I'm in my mid fifties. > > > > > > I think that feeling in balance comes from living in balance and > all of > > > these elements need to be addressed. > > > > > > Wishing you vibrant health--and a good Shabbos! > > > > > > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto% > 40.co.uk>> > > > wrote: > > > Zev and Yehuda, > > > > > > I've been a vegetarian for some 16 years. > > > > > > Have you and other vegetarians noticed a distinctive lack of Yang > Qi in > > > your > > > bodies? > > > > > > I'm convinced that my Yang Qi is weaker, almost passive, when > compared to > > > most meat eaters. I'm sure this is due to a lack of eating meat, > which is > > > predominately Yang in nature and a good source of protein. I try > and get > > > protein from alternative sources, but it's not easy. > > > > > > Have other vegetarians noticed the same thing? How do you deal > with it? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC MATCM > > > Editor > > > Times > > > +44 (0) 1189 612512 > > > enquiries <enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com> > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Hi John, You raise some interesting points. Yes, i agree animals are more Yang in that their Qi is heavier. It's true that flowers and petals are used for their upward and opening effects, making them Yang in nature. I wouldn't say being a vegetarian is for everyone and i wouldn't say eating meat is for everyone either. I heard that dog meat is actually the best type of meat for our stomach to digest. Has anyone else heard about this? Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > Attilio, more power to you for being yourself and walking on your path. > I don't think anyone has to conform to anyone else's standards, unless it > hurts others. > > When I first became lacto-vegetarian, it was in response to being an extreme > carnivore. > First, letting go of red-meats, then white meats and fish. > Then eliminating eggs, but not dairy. > I was drinking a lot of wheatgrass juice and exercised all day, losing 20 > lbs. > Later, I felt that I needed to add eggs back into my diet scheme to > " fortify " me a bit more. > Like you said, I needed some of that " yang " qi. > > I agree with the idea that animals are more yang in nature relative to > plants in general. > I'm just bringing up the point that plants may be seen as yang in nature in > a different way, > the qi that they give humans tends to be quicker and lighter. > Animals give more solid, slower, heavier qi. > > Likewise, roots tend to me more yang than flowers in the sense of warmth > qualities, > ( roots can be anywhere from hot to cold, while flowers are almost always > cooling) > but in another sense, flowers are more yang in nature than roots in that > they direct qi upwards and externally and also because they make quick > changes in qi also. > (Jeffrey Yuen talks about this; flowers change quickly and make quick > changes in humans) > > Of course, most plants are " colder " than animals, so in this sense, animals > are more yang in nature than plants from that view-point. It seems to be a > koan, because the complexity doesn't allow for just an easy fit into a box. > I think Chuang-tzu talks alot about this in response to the legalists and > also other taoist sects of his time who labeled everything this and that. > (not saying you're doing that, just saying that this stifles the creativity > of seeing the components transform into something else) > > Some taoists that I've heard and read, say that animals have souls, while > plants do not. > Without going into any religious aspect of this, > I can say that in my experience, plants may not have hun/po souls, yet there > is a collective shen that is inherent in every species. > As I ate more plant-life, this opened me up to communing with plants in a > deeper way. > As a meat-eater who didn't put attention or awareness into my diet, these > doors did not open. > However, one could be connected with animals in this same way by being a > meat-eater. > (just as the hunter-gatherers who cherished organ meat, such as the heart > and liver of a fresh kill received nourishment and some kind of " spiritual " > transference from these living organs. > (the Weston Price Foundation talks about this: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation > Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is an interesting read) > > I think the issues are less about what you eat, but who you eat with > if you eat with yourself, are you aware of what you're eating > is it fresh and alive or dead. > are you giving respect to the life qi it is giving you > or just doing it as a force of habit. > if you're eating with someone else, > are you communing in a communal ritual and > most importantly are you happy!? > > There's a poem that goes something like... > I'd rather eat my sausage and beer with cheer > than my peas and shrooms with gloom > > Funny thing is that I stopped this lifestyle when I got into Chinese > medicine. > Half of the people I knew going into CM school were vegetarians, only a few > remain. > I think that with CM, we discovered how we could be healthy as meat- eaters, > utilizing CM principles and herbs, > just like you as a vegetarian can be balanced without eating meat.! > > Can someone explain two things: > I've heard that animal protein is more easily assimilate-able than plant > proteins for human metabolism... > How is this? > Also, what about the idea of hormonal tissue correspondence between animals, > such as pig pancreas being good for human pancreas etc. ? > How does this work? > > Thanks. > k. > > On 3/24/07, <attiliodalberto wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > Yes, plants are Yang in nature, but meat is muscle, which relates to > > the Spleen, Spleen Yang and the source of Qi and Blood. I would say > > the opposite, in that animals are more Yang and plants are more Yin. > > Animals are often mammals, warm blooded and therefore Yang. Plants > > are not warm blooded, they need the sun to gain their warmth and are > > therefore more Yin. > > > > I have to admit, when I first started being a vegetarian I was proud > > of what I was doing. Now, I just do it because I'm comfortable with > > it. I'm not going to go into the religious/spiritual/philosophical > > aspects of why I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not necessarily 'proud' > > anymore. > > > > Attilio > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic ine%40>, > > " " > > > > <johnkokko@> wrote: > > > > > > Mainly in clinic, the vegetarians seem to be more blood def. > > > I'm not sure about yang def. > > > plants are considered yang in the sense that they are light and > > quick qi. > > > Animals are more yin, in the sense that they are heavier and slower > > and more > > > solid qi. > > > I guess it depends on the way that you look at it. > > > > > > When I was a lacto-vegetarian (7 years w/ eggs and dairy only), I > > felt > > > lighter, faster and clearer emotionally. > > > However, I had pride that I was not eating meat and that isolated > > me from > > > some people. > > > In Tibetan philosophy, there are cold hells as well as hot ones. > > > In the cold ones, you get proud people. > > > In the hot ones, you get angry people. > > > This is kind of how I saw vegetarians (colder- more proud) > > > and meat-eaters (hotter-more angry). > > > > > > However, as a lacto-vegetarian I could not endure as long and often > > would > > > crash in the late afternoon. > > > That would make me want to eat chocolate and sweets. > > > I'm wondering if my body wanted to balance the alkalinity with some > > acids. > > > Have you noticed how Whole Foods has a huge double organic > > chocolate and > > > organic sugary stuff section. > > > In fact I noticed that most of my friends who were vegetarian, > > > needed their sweet fix more than meat eaters. > > > That could also be because their SP qi was weaker, eating a lot of > > raw foods > > > and needed a bit of sweet flavor in their diets. > > > > > > Also, there's the whole notion of blood types and fast and slow > > metabolizers > > > and doshas and element types. > > > Since I'm predominately pitta, a mainly vegetarian diet is better > > to keep me > > > in balance. > > > Also, I'm a blood type A, which means more vegetables and less meat. > > > If I was O type, then maybe more meat, especially beef to fuel a > > busy hunter > > > lifestyle. > > > > > > Now I eat anything I want and am happy with that. > > > Trying to eat organic and in season. > > > Just need to exercise more and get more off-time. > > > Like to hear what you successful vegetarians and meat-eaters do to > > balance > > > your bodies and souls. > > > k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/23/07, @> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Attilio, > > > > > > > > As Z'ev mentioned, neither he nor I are actually vegetarians. > > Personally, > > > > I do not eat red meat of any kind, nor dairy of any kind. My > > daily diet > > > > consists of organic eggs, fish, grains (mostly white organic > > basmati rice), > > > > avocado and Humous, and lots of cooked vegetables. I also have a > > whole grain > > > > spelt bagel each morning, with almond butter. Once a week, on the > > Sabbath, I > > > > eat free range chicken. I don't eat any soy, as it makes me feel > > bad. > > > > > > > > I am very sensitive to what I eat, and consciously avoid those > > foods that > > > > are harmful for me, individually. As a mentioned, I use the Coca > > pulse test, > > > > if I have any suspicion. By eating what is good for me, getting > > adequate > > > > sleep, walking at least a half hour twice a day whenever > > possible, doing > > > > work that is incredibly fulfilling, being very much in love and > > being loved > > > > by my significant other, not letting things bother me, and using > > herbs > > > > whenever I am feeling like I am getting out of balance, I feel > > like a young > > > > colt, even though I'm in my mid fifties. > > > > > > > > I think that feeling in balance comes from living in balance and > > all of > > > > these elements need to be addressed. > > > > > > > > Wishing you vibrant health--and a good Shabbos! > > > > > > > > > > > > Yehuda > > > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto@<attiliodalberto% > > 40.co.uk>> > > > > wrote: > > > > Zev and Yehuda, > > > > > > > > I've been a vegetarian for some 16 years. > > > > > > > > Have you and other vegetarians noticed a distinctive lack of Yang > > Qi in > > > > your > > > > bodies? > > > > > > > > I'm convinced that my Yang Qi is weaker, almost passive, when > > compared to > > > > most meat eaters. I'm sure this is due to a lack of eating meat, > > which is > > > > predominately Yang in nature and a good source of protein. I try > > and get > > > > protein from alternative sources, but it's not easy. > > > > > > > > Have other vegetarians noticed the same thing? How do you deal > > with it? > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC MATCM > > > > Editor > > > > Times > > > > +44 (0) 1189 612512 > > > > enquiries@ <enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com> > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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