Challenging patient-numerous issues

[Guest guest]

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind-heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

[Guest guest]

The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week.

>>>>>If she wants to get rid of the headache she must stop taking the Fioricet,

she is probably getting rebound headaches. Any headache Dr would be the first to

tell her to stop this drug. There are many better choices if she needs WM drugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

natdoc48

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, March 18, 2007 5:20 PM

Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

 

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind-heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Meredith,

 

I would agree 100% with Alon, and would add a few other points to consider:

1. Aside from the UTI's tell us about her menstrual cycle and her age. By

working to help her body work more efficiently during the four phases of the

cycle, alot can be resolved. 2. Consider sources of toxicity and

hypersensitivity/allergy. Does she have alot of amalgam fillings? Are there

any obvious sources of toxicity such such as living near an oil refinary or

having a radio transmitter nearby? Are you familiar with the Coca pulse test

for food allergy? My experience is that RAST and scratch testing for allergies

are essentially a waste of time. Alot of what you describe is consistant with

either toxicity or hypersensitivity. 3. Try to get her in touch with someone

who does mind/body work, such as craniosacral therapy to deal with old traumas.

Without releasing the " imprint " of an emotional or physical trauma, often the

body will refuse to get well.

 

Best of luck,

 

Yehuda

 

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week.

>>>>>If she wants to get rid of the headache she must stop taking the Fioricet,

she is probably getting rebound headaches. Any headache Dr would be the first to

tell her to stop this drug. There are many better choices if she needs WM drugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

natdoc48

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, March 18, 2007 5:20 PM

Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind-heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

About your patient's Urinary Tract Infections: did anyone tell her to make sure

to wipe herself from front to back, so as not to minimise spread of bacteria

towards the UT?

Is your client getting professional phsychological help?

Can she REALLY imagine herself without all her symptoms?

 

Artemis

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Meredith,

 

I would first like to comment on the headaches as it is a specialty of mine

- I have suffered from migraines since 15 years of age so I've really made a

study of it.

 

Fiorinal/Fioracet is notorious for causing rebound headaches and it is

more than just caffeine. Aspirin, Tylenol - most pain medicines can cause

rebound headaches. If a person is taking it more than once a week they will

suffer from this. As the medicine wears off the headache rebounds - often

worse

than before. I've found that even the Triptans cause this. The only way to

break this cycle is to stop the drugs and detoxify - it's a very unpleasant

process. Then if they only take the drug once in a while it will be

effective.

 

I found Gua Sha also to be very effective - both as a preventative and as a

treatment. I even teach patients how to do gua sha on themselves and they do

find that it helps. As the headaches are mostly at the back of the neck -

according to the zone - I would treat Tai Yang channels for the headaches.

 

I hope I don't misquote him but I heard Lonney Jarrett once say that a body

is like a house and that the organs/channels are residents in that house.

The key is to see who in that house was the first to stop doing their job. Keep

investigating to get back to the original culprit.

 

A patient may come in with heart palpitations and yes it is very important

to treat that right away but you must get back to the source. Did the Stomach

and Spleen weaken the Heart and cause the palpitations and /or was the Liver

not nourishing the Heart? Perhaps the Stomach and Spleen weakened the heart

because they in turn were originally weakened by the Lung/Large Intestine

system. That's why I think that a thorough history is so important - both a

physical and emotional history. The LI symptoms may have been so long ago

that it is no longer a concern for the patient and they don't think to mention

it but it may have started the progression of problems- yet you need to peel

back to the original cause or you're chasing the dragon's tail.

 

I like to make a timeline showing when the patient's symptoms developed and

what was happening in their life at that time. It's very revealing

Mary

 

 

 

 

************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.

Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would encourage her to use colloidal silver, oil of oregano (drops in water

then ingested), get her to eat a good quality yogurt regularly and drink

vegetable juice such as V8. One of the best herbal decoctions she might try is

Essiac. Together these remedies could make a significant difference in her

quality of life.

 

 

 

natdoc48 <natdoc48

Chinese Medicine

Monday, March 19, 2007 11:20:21 AM

Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind- heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Meredith:

 

Let me start by saying, I am not a TCM expert. I am trained in Five Element and

I integrate a lot of things. So I am sure you will also get some good TCM

advice.

 

I will give you my take on this.

 

First, I would relax. You are running around like the emergency fireman

literally trying to put out all these fires. She obviously has emotional

problems. I could see that before you said it at the end. Her picture screams

Earth to me, in the five element world. You are doing Earth points, as you put

out the fires. But hold her as an Earth Constutional type. She need nurturing,

from you (which is why she's coming) and from herself. Teach her to take care

of herself. Talk to her about what she's doing outside the treatment room. If

she really wants to get better she is going to have to do some work outside the

tx room - a short meditation in the mornning, a warm bath (no UTI's) at night, a

walk when she gets home from work, some exercise (anywhere). Tell her you can

support her emotionally. Work on an herb to bring down the rising energy to her

head - Bluperuem. Ask her to consider with her doctor the weaning off and

elimination of the headache med with the caffeine. S

he likes the front tx because of it's emotional release. That is what she is

asking for.

 

Tell her you need to concentrate on her as a whole person. Maybe not all pains

will be eliminated the minute she walks out of treatment. It sounds like she is

even asking for this.

I find the Aggressive Energy Treatment (which is on the back - Yin Back Shu

points) is very emotionally releasing. If you do this treatment explain that it

is for emotional releasing/relaxing, since she already has it in her mind that

is front only. There is informaiton on Aggressive Energy in some recent posts

this month. It is a releasing, so there could be law of cure going on for two

or three days. Then patients usuallly feel great. This law of cure can also be

subtle (most of the time it is - and only tends to happen when first done)]

 

Also add Yin Tan, Shen Men, Point Zero (auricular) to your treatment (not with

the aggressive energy at the same time - that is a stand alone tx - leaving

needles in for 20 mins - when they come out you can do others)

 

Along with the Earth points (I usually try to close on the command points - if I

see an Earth CF), keep treating what you see - KI , LR 3, GB 20, SP. Just be

more relaxed about it. Meredith, I am saying this because I have done the same

thing. Sometimes you just have to say STOP in your head. What does this person

really need - that's when you will get to the root.

 

Anne

 

 

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" natdoc48 " <natdoc48

> I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

> about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

> She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

> fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

> Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

> headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

> back and neck).

> She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

> sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

> many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

> about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

> " back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

> fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

> at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

> she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

> in the past.

> Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

> stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

> father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

> died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

> " loves " but has added much stress.

> She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

> concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

> some concern that she is becoming too thin.

>

> Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

> coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

> was heavily coated in a cream color.

> Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

> the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

>

> The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

> this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

> disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

> out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

> one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

> mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind-heat

> following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

> going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

> She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

> UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

> have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

> complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

> salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

> FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

>

> She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

> all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

> saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

> differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

> keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

> more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

> back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

> caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

> is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

> one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

> the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

> back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

>

> I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

> written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

> about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

>

> I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

> chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

> treating what the person says is the main complaint.

> I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

> (absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

> to spleen qi deficiency).

>

> I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

> am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

> patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

>

> Thanks for listening.

> Meredith

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Mary,

I love your suggestion of doing a timeline of symptoms. I always ask

when things showed up, and I always ask what else was going on in their life at

the time. But when a patient has a suitcase full of symptoms, sometimes the

dates get lost in my notetaking. I'm going to incorporate a timeline into my

intake. Sometimes a picture (or a graphic) is worth a thousand words!

Peace, Liz

 

 

 

-

acumary

Chinese Medicine

Monday, March 19, 2007 9:23 AM

Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

 

 

Hi Meredith,

 

I would first like to comment on the headaches as it is a specialty of mine

- I have suffered from migraines since 15 years of age so I've really made a

study of it.

 

Fiorinal/Fioracet is notorious for causing rebound headaches and it is

more than just caffeine. Aspirin, Tylenol - most pain medicines can cause

rebound headaches. If a person is taking it more than once a week they will

suffer from this. As the medicine wears off the headache rebounds - often

worse

than before. I've found that even the Triptans cause this. The only way to

break this cycle is to stop the drugs and detoxify - it's a very unpleasant

process. Then if they only take the drug once in a while it will be

effective.

 

I found Gua Sha also to be very effective - both as a preventative and as a

treatment. I even teach patients how to do gua sha on themselves and they do

find that it helps. As the headaches are mostly at the back of the neck -

according to the zone - I would treat Tai Yang channels for the headaches.

 

I hope I don't misquote him but I heard Lonney Jarrett once say that a body

is like a house and that the organs/channels are residents in that house.

The key is to see who in that house was the first to stop doing their job.

Keep

investigating to get back to the original culprit.

 

A patient may come in with heart palpitations and yes it is very important

to treat that right away but you must get back to the source. Did the Stomach

and Spleen weaken the Heart and cause the palpitations and /or was the Liver

not nourishing the Heart? Perhaps the Stomach and Spleen weakened the heart

because they in turn were originally weakened by the Lung/Large Intestine

system. That's why I think that a thorough history is so important - both a

physical and emotional history. The LI symptoms may have been so long ago

that it is no longer a concern for the patient and they don't think to mention

it but it may have started the progression of problems- yet you need to peel

back to the original cause or you're chasing the dragon's tail.

 

I like to make a timeline showing when the patient's symptoms developed and

what was happening in their life at that time. It's very revealing

Mary

 

************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.

Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the feedback so far. I appreciate all who took the

time to read the long post and provide some thoughts.

 

Regarding menses, she is menopausal, 55. No periods for 5 years.

 

Yes, we have talked about wiping habits and she is very clear and

hygenic with that regard.

 

She currently eats plain yogurt and takes a high quality probiotic. I

have encouraged her to add carrot and celery juice to her diet. Her

diet is very " clean " . She has eliminated all grains, except rice.

She buys organic. Eats a lot of cooked vegetables. She has virtually

eliminated fruits as they aggravated her bloating. She does not use

sauces. As she says, there is not a lot left to eat. She eats salmon

and other fish.

 

She is not currently working with a therapist, but has in the past.

 

I agree with getting off the Fioracet and we have talked about that in

the past. She will stop for a week and then when the pain gets to be

too much, she ends up back on that " hampster wheel " . She talked

yesterday about needing to address that. I suggested the meds could

be affecting our ability to make progress with Chinese meds.

 

I have had her on anti-candida/yeast supplements in the past, but with

all the changing symptoms and subsequent formulas they got lost in the

process.

 

I need to consider how to express to her the need to address the

emotional component and possible attachment to illness without

sounding like I am shifting " blame " from me to her (i.e. she expressed

frustration that she feels " this " (chinese medicine) is not helping

after a year of weekly (or almost) treatments. (Hope I am making sense).

 

Thanks again,

Meredith

[Guest guest]

Hi Meredith, I think I missed your first post, but I think I've been able to

catch some of it through quotations...I was wondering how much of your patient's

presentation justifies the probiotics and vegetable juices. Both are cooling,

and your patient sounds like an overall case of deficiency, and qi deficiency

specifically. Is it possible that she is taking too many cooling foods? I

believe I recall you mentioning that she feels her diet is too restrictive, so I

understand having to make concessions, but...

Could you let us know what points you are using to treat her headaches? I am

surprised that, even with her taking medication, you have not made much headway

in this regard.

You may want to forget about her root problems and treat the branch. It sounds

like she may be, in a very real way, distracting you from doing your job.

Your thoughts?

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_________

New Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at

the Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

http://uk.rd./evt=44106/*http://mail..net/uk

 

 

[Guest guest]

Joe:

 

Why the Essiac? I have heard that those with cancer are drinking this tea but

I'm not really sure what's in it. What are your thoughts on GSE (grapefruit

seed extract) as well?

 

Joyce

 

-

Joe Carrot

Chinese Medicine

Monday, March 19, 2007 1:17 PM

Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

 

I would encourage her to use colloidal silver, oil of oregano (drops in water

then ingested), get her to eat a good quality yogurt regularly and drink

vegetable juice such as V8. One of the best herbal decoctions she might try is

Essiac. Together these remedies could make a significant difference in her

quality of life.

 

natdoc48 <natdoc48

Chinese Medicine

Monday, March 19, 2007 11:20:21 AM

Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind- heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

 

 

[Guest guest]

Essiac, because of the nature of the decoction (the recipe includes burdock

root, turkey rhubarb root, shepherds purse as well as a couple of other herbal

elements) is a tonic, working on many parts of the system. Tonics only help to

stabilize and strengthen the system so that is why I would include this valuable

remedy in my medicine bag with a symptomatic case such as the one your patient

presents.

If you are interested in finding out more about Essiac (Rene Caisse, the

French Canadian woman that was introduced to this remedy through the expertise

and goodwill of a Native Medicine Man) can easily be investigated by Googling

the name. Good Luck with your medicine. Sincerely, Joe Carrot.

 

 

 

Joyce <joyces

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:32:45 AM

Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

Joe:

 

Why the Essiac? I have heard that those with cancer are drinking this tea but

I'm not really sure what's in it. What are your thoughts on GSE (grapefruit seed

extract) as well?

 

Joyce

 

-

Joe Carrot

 

Monday, March 19, 2007 1:17 PM

Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

I would encourage her to use colloidal silver, oil of oregano (drops in water

then ingested), get her to eat a good quality yogurt regularly and drink

vegetable juice such as V8. One of the best herbal decoctions she might try is

Essiac. Together these remedies could make a significant difference in her

quality of life.

 

 

natdoc48 <natdoc48 >

 

Monday, March 19, 2007 11:20:21 AM

Challenging patient-numerous issues

 

I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

back and neck).

She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

" back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

in the past.

Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

" loves " but has added much stress.

She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

some concern that she is becoming too thin.

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

 

The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind- heat

following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

 

She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

 

I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

 

I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

treating what the person says is the main complaint.

I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

(absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

to spleen qi deficiency).

 

I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

 

Thanks for listening.

Meredith

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

 

 

http://mail.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The problem seems to be complicate, but after the analysis it is a

simple case...............

 

Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

was heavily coated in a cream color.

Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

Pale purple tongue = deficiency with stagnation ( Qi / Blood ? ). Qi

def will have some damp. Blood stagnation will have dry tongue.

A deep crevice in the center showing the emotion is related or from

constitution, cream color = internal problem.

Wiry pulse = Liver problem , stress, stagnation , phlegm or pain. If

it is wiry on R middle ( SP/ Sto ), Liver excess attacks Sp / Sto. But

it L middle ( Liv ) is deficient, then this is Liver deficiency can

not smooth its Qi, then there is stagnation in the Sp/ Sto, Qi and

blood is not moving properly. This could manifest bloating, gas,

abdominal discomfort with mental instability ( sadness, grief,

insomnia, empty chest, shortness of breath " exhaling " , difficult

urination , weak muscle, tendons … ).

Female pulse : Kid must be stronger than LU / He because female

possesses more blood than Qi. In this case Ki is thin and def = blood

and jing are deficient. If pulses are precise as described, the

symptoms above must be manifested depends upon the severity.

There was no heat or cold symptoms above. No exterior, no excess. This

should be an easy case. One treatment should be enough, more is better

for the pocket.

There is gas and bloating. This could be a problem from deficiency of

Qi, and especial Liv Qi. The remedy could be use to tonify Liv Qi and

smooth it.

To tonify Liv Qi, first tonify SP and Sto Qi ( S36, Sp6 ), then Ki Qi

( K3,6 ) and finally Liv Qi ( liv 3 ).

For gas ( S39 , lower-He Sea of SI ) the small intestine not

absorbing its nutrient . its clear Gu Qi must be ascended and

distributed, turbid Gu Qi must be descended and driven out… Craneberry

juice, Blueberry or Cherries may be used for clearing UTI.

 

GOOD LUCK ! Have confidence !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Joe Carrot

<anthillfarmer wrote:

>

> Essiac, because of the nature of the decoction (the recipe includes

burdock root, turkey rhubarb root, shepherds purse as well as a

couple of other herbal elements) is a tonic, working on many parts of

the system. Tonics only help to stabilize and strengthen the system so

that is why I would include this valuable remedy in my medicine bag

with a symptomatic case such as the one your patient presents.

> If you are interested in finding out more about Essiac (Rene

Caisse, the French Canadian woman that was introduced to this remedy

through the expertise and goodwill of a Native Medicine Man) can

easily be investigated by Googling the name. Good Luck with your

medicine. Sincerely, Joe Carrot.

>

>

>

> Joyce <joyces

> Chinese Medicine

> Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:32:45 AM

> Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

>

> Joe:

>

> Why the Essiac? I have heard that those with cancer are drinking

this tea but I'm not really sure what's in it. What are your thoughts

on GSE (grapefruit seed extract) as well?

>

> Joyce

>

> -

> Joe Carrot

>

> Monday, March 19, 2007 1:17 PM

> Re: Challenging patient-numerous issues

>

> I would encourage her to use colloidal silver, oil of oregano (drops

in water then ingested), get her to eat a good quality yogurt

regularly and drink vegetable juice such as V8. One of the best herbal

decoctions she might try is Essiac. Together these remedies could make

a significant difference in her quality of life.

>

>

> natdoc48 <natdoc48 >

>

> Monday, March 19, 2007 11:20:21 AM

> Challenging patient-numerous issues

>

> I am hoping to get some help here. I have been treating a patient for

> about a year with acupuncture, herbs, and prior to that, naturopathy.

> She came to me originally in Feb 06 with complaints of tension HAs,

> fibromyalgia, digestive complaints, insomnia, hot flashes and leg pain.

> Some of the digestive complaints cleared up with diet changes. The

> headaches persisted (mostly occipital, in a T-zone across the upper

> back and neck).

> She is on Buspar for anxiety, Fiorinal/Fioracet for headaches, Xantac

> sometimes for reflux. She has a history of UTI's that were severe

> many years ago when living in Arizona and had been under control for

> about the last 7 years. They started up again in April 06. (she moved

> " back " to Wisconsin in 04). She has had exploratory surgery in the

> fall that revealed inflammation. She stopped going into the hot tub

> at her complex at my suggestion and all was well until last week, when

> she came down with another UTI. A culture revealed E.Coli as it has

> in the past.

> Her mother passed away this past year, resulting in grief and added

> stress during her mother's last days/weeks (it was her mother and

> father's declining health that prompted the move to WI. Her father

> died in 04). She also received a promotion in her job, which she

> " loves " but has added much stress.

> She is petit and has lost weight of late. Originally she was not

> concerned, and actually happy about the weight loss, but now expresses

> some concern that she is becoming too thin.

>

> Her tongue is pale purple, swollen and typically damp, with a light

> coat. She has a deep crevice in the center of her tongue that today

> was heavily coated in a cream color.

> Her pulses are usually wiry in the R middle position and deficient in

> the L middle position. KD pulses are typically thin and deficient.

>

> The reason I am writing is: today she came in and recapped her week

> this week, which included some severe chest pains and a feeling of

> disorientation which prompted a visit to her WM clinic. Testing ruled

> out any heart related issues. A chest x-rays showed a small shadow in

> one of her lungs which has now been referred to a pulmonologist. (her

> mother had emphysema). She is recovering from wind-cold/wind- heat

> following a recent business trip to FL. (so common here for everyone

> going to a warm climate during the winter to get sick on re-entry).

> She was given antibiotics for the UTI at the clinic. Because of the

> UTI sx at her visit last week, I did not moxa her abdominally as I

> have been to help with her digestive complaints. The digestive

> complaints (gas and bloating) have been gone since we have started the

> salt and moxa at CV8 about 6 weeks ago, but digressed with the trip to

> FL and now are much worse with the antibiotics.

>

> She is wondering if acupuncture and chinese medicine are helping at

> all after a year of almost weekly treatments. I hear what she is

> saying and I wonder and I wonder how I could be doing this

> differently. As I look over her chart, and as I explained to her I

> keep trying to put out fires. Each week, something else is squeeking

> more loudly to be treated...many times it is the head aches and upper

> back aches and fatigue. The fatigue is aggravated, I am sure by the

> caffeine laden Fioracet, sometimes taking 7-9 per week. Sometimes it

> is digestion. Sometimes emotional complaints (she had also asked at

> one point that I just do front treatments cos she " gets so much from

> the front treatments emotionally " and not enough pain relief from the

> back tx to give up the front tx). Sometimes hot flashes. Sometimes UTIs.

>

> I know I am missing some important information and I know I have

> written alot here already. Please let me know if you have questions

> about what I have written and what I may have done re: treatment.

>

> I am sure I don't always focus on the root, and as I said, instead go

> chasing after fires. I was also taught about the importance of

> treating what the person says is the main complaint.

> I certainly see spleen qi deficiency with kidney yin deficiency

> (absence of KD pulses, presence of hot flashes), blood deficiency (due

> to spleen qi deficiency).

>

> I recognize that I am a novice (in practice a year and a half) and I

> am very interested in learning from your experience. BTW, I use

> patents from Nuherbs, Mayway, and a few from Golden Flower.

>

> Thanks for listening.

> Meredith

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

>

>

> http://mail.

>

>