Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I recently discovered that, for instance, Health Concerns products were available on-line. In the context of my search that didn't bother me, in that the on-line prices were in line with standard usage. That is ca. 100% markup over cost to practitioners, as per Health Concerns own marketing advice in their " handbook " , i.e. cost ca. $10/bottle, to patients ca. $20. (That's more or less in line with prices for supplements in general.) What was irking me is that a new, agressively marketed chain out here in California, called " Elephant Pharm " , is selling Health Concerns bottles from open shelves AT A DISCOUNT, i.e. standard priced bottle at ca. $20 they're selling at ca. $15. Not only is Health Concerns allowing practitioners be bypassed, but also under selling them. (I suspect that Elephant Pharm gets a healthy volume discount also.) Health Concerns reply (I complained) is that they sell only to practitioners, and Elephant Pharm has practitioners working for them in each store. But the stuff is ordered on the coorporate level -- the " practitioner " at the local franchise new nothing about how the stuff was ordered, or the pricing strategy, and certainly that she didn't order. Health Concerns also justifies the retail sales in terms of practitioners who work for, say HMOs, who can't order/sell herbs, so their patients can have access. My suspicion is still tinged with paranoia, as the prices at Elephant Pharm are generally quite up-market, e.g. $8 for a bottle of GanMaoLing (which I get wholesale, in relative small quantities, for $1.80/bottle), or $6 for a box of YinQiao; $5.75 for TianWangBuXinDan (not to mention $24/lb for ShanYao, or $15/lb for (inferior quality) zhigancao). Why then sell Health Concerns products (say Quiet Digestion, an effective favorite), at a discount? (My paranoid guess: to lure the public away from practices like mine.) On another note, Paul Unschuld points out that medicine (herb) producers trying to cut out the practitioner middle man is actually a part of " traditional Chinese medicine " . I.e. in the late Song-Jin-Yuan into Ming times, standardization of formulas by the Imperial Academy fostered a proliferation of OTC patents. Unschuld's hypothesis is that the diagnostic theoretical refinements of the " 4 great masters " (as examples) was in part at least a reaction on the part of medical practitioners to assert the importance of professional diagnosis in achieving optimum treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 The answer to the problem is creativity on our part, not outrage. There is no success found in those that consider themselves the victim, only those that consider themselves challenged. David Botton > What was irking me is that a new, agressively marketed chain out here > in California, called " Elephant Pharm " , is selling Health Concerns > bottles from open shelves AT A DISCOUNT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Thanks for your explanation Chris. Health Concerns is the product my patient ordered on line. Vitamin Pharamacy are doing this all the time (with a licensed practioner somewhere on staff) My largest concern with Chinese herbs (because I can retail all kinds of products from Vitamins to Facial products), is that they will take something inappropriate and potentially harmful is taken over a long term. I prefer to sell Chinese Herbs in my practice because it complements my acupuncture treatments. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " chris_macie " < > I recently discovered that, for instance, Health Concerns products > were available on-line. In the context of my search that didn't bother > me, in that the on-line prices were in line with standard usage. That > is ca. 100% markup over cost to practitioners, as per Health Concerns > own marketing advice in their " handbook " , i.e. cost ca. $10/bottle, to > patients ca. $20. (That's more or less in line with prices for > supplements in general.) > > What was irking me is that a new, agressively marketed chain out here > in California, called " Elephant Pharm " , is selling Health Concerns > bottles from open shelves AT A DISCOUNT, i.e. standard priced bottle > at ca. $20 they're selling at ca. $15. Not only is Health Concerns > allowing practitioners be bypassed, but also under selling them. (I > suspect that Elephant Pharm gets a healthy volume discount also.) > > Health Concerns reply (I complained) is that they sell only to > practitioners, and Elephant Pharm has practitioners working for them > in each store. But the stuff is ordered on the coorporate level -- the > " practitioner " at the local franchise new nothing about how the stuff > was ordered, or the pricing strategy, and certainly that she didn't > order. > > Health Concerns also justifies the retail sales in terms of > practitioners who work for, say HMOs, who can't order/sell herbs, so > their patients can have access. > > My suspicion is still tinged with paranoia, as the prices at Elephant > Pharm are generally quite up-market, e.g. $8 for a bottle of > GanMaoLing (which I get wholesale, in relative small quantities, for > $1.80/bottle), or $6 for a box of YinQiao; $5.75 for TianWangBuXinDan > (not to mention $24/lb for ShanYao, or $15/lb for (inferior quality) > zhigancao). Why then sell Health Concerns products (say Quiet > Digestion, an effective favorite), at a discount? (My paranoid guess: > to lure the public away from practices like mine.) > > On another note, Paul Unschuld points out that medicine (herb) > producers trying to cut out the practitioner middle man is actually a > part of " traditional Chinese medicine " . I.e. in the late Song-Jin-Yuan > into Ming times, standardization of formulas by the Imperial Academy > fostered a proliferation of OTC patents. Unschuld's hypothesis is that > the diagnostic theoretical refinements of the " 4 great masters " (as > examples) was in part at least a reaction on the part of medical > practitioners to assert the importance of professional diagnosis in > achieving optimum treatment. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 It sounds like better patient education combined with a more responsible herbal corp policy of sale are needed. If enough pracitioners decide to lobby and protest a company policy of direct sale of product to patients, then we create an ethical listing of those who will not participate. We use only these and let our economic dollars and politics to let them know. If they want to go it along, then they have that right. Their decision will decide our support and their future. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > anne.crowley > Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:45:23 +0000 > Re: Re: herb sales online (and OTC) > > Thanks for your explanation Chris. Health Concerns is the product my patient ordered on line. > Vitamin Pharamacy are doing this all the time (with a licensed practioner somewhere on staff) > My largest concern with Chinese herbs (because I can retail all kinds of products from Vitamins to Facial products), is that they will take something inappropriate and potentially harmful is taken over a long term. I prefer to sell Chinese Herbs in my practice because it complements my acupuncture treatments. > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " chris_macie " < > > I recently discovered that, for instance, Health Concerns products > > were available on-line. In the context of my search that didn't bother > > me, in that the on-line prices were in line with standard usage. That > > is ca. 100% markup over cost to practitioners, as per Health Concerns > > own marketing advice in their " handbook " , i.e. cost ca. $10/bottle, to > > patients ca. $20. (That's more or less in line with prices for > > supplements in general.) > > > > What was irking me is that a new, agressively marketed chain out here > > in California, called " Elephant Pharm " , is selling Health Concerns > > bottles from open shelves AT A DISCOUNT, i.e. standard priced bottle > > at ca. $20 they're selling at ca. $15. Not only is Health Concerns > > allowing practitioners be bypassed, but also under selling them. (I > > suspect that Elephant Pharm gets a healthy volume discount also.) > > > > Health Concerns reply (I complained) is that they sell only to > > practitioners, and Elephant Pharm has practitioners working for them > > in each store. But the stuff is ordered on the coorporate level -- the > > " practitioner " at the local franchise new nothing about how the stuff > > was ordered, or the pricing strategy, and certainly that she didn't > > order. > > > > Health Concerns also justifies the retail sales in terms of > > practitioners who work for, say HMOs, who can't order/sell herbs, so > > their patients can have access. > > > > My suspicion is still tinged with paranoia, as the prices at Elephant > > Pharm are generally quite up-market, e.g. $8 for a bottle of > > GanMaoLing (which I get wholesale, in relative small quantities, for > > $1.80/bottle), or $6 for a box of YinQiao; $5.75 for TianWangBuXinDan > > (not to mention $24/lb for ShanYao, or $15/lb for (inferior quality) > > zhigancao). Why then sell Health Concerns products (say Quiet > > Digestion, an effective favorite), at a discount? (My paranoid guess: > > to lure the public away from practices like mine.) > > > > On another note, Paul Unschuld points out that medicine (herb) > > producers trying to cut out the practitioner middle man is actually a > > part of " traditional Chinese medicine " . I.e. in the late Song-Jin-Yuan > > into Ming times, standardization of formulas by the Imperial Academy > > fostered a proliferation of OTC patents. Unschuld's hypothesis is that > > the diagnostic theoretical refinements of the " 4 great masters " (as > > examples) was in part at least a reaction on the part of medical > > practitioners to assert the importance of professional diagnosis in > > achieving optimum treatment. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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