herb sales online= FDA/ Commission E

[Guest guest]

I agree that there should be industrial standards within Chinese herbalism,

because the FDA may in the near future ban anything that may be in any way

controversial or competitive of other unnamed industries.

For instance, zhi ke and zhi shi may be the next thing to go (due to its bp

raising capabilities and occasional inclusion in weight-loss formulas)

Chinese herbalists and Western herbalists should band together to create

standards for at least the purity of what is sold in the United States ie.

heavy metals, pesticides, preservatives, chemical id...,

so that what is available on the internet, in stores and in clinics, is safe

for the public.

(We have talked about some of the counterfeit stuff that comes out of China

etc)

Also, I agree that acupuncturists and guild herbalists should be the ones

calling the shots,

not blue-suits or research associates, who have never even heard of the

herbs before.

 

Also, does the United States have an equivalent to Germany's Commission E ?

There needs to be more education proliferated from within to get the public

hip to the seriousness of what we do.

For one, I'm glad that ma huang is not as easily available as it was a year

ago for the public.

But what about a serious practitioner who really knows how to use it and

cant' get it now, in helping someone with debilitating asthma?

It's legal for a licensed practitioner to use ma huang, but who can get any

these days?

That opportunity is lost.

 

There are a whole bunch of herbs that are on the chopping block.

I'm glad we're having this conversation.

k.

 

On 3/6/07, Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist <boblindeherbalist wrote:

>

> Actually the herbalists are getting well organized and setting a

> standard of profesionalism check out www.americanherbalistsguild.com the

> idea is that if we don't regulate herbalisms from within at some point the

> feds will try and do it for us....I'm guessing we will not like the

> standards they will set. The professional status they set is Registered

> Herbalist (RH) which i consider I higher standard thay CH since that board

> exam merely shows that you can memorize and that you sat in class.

> bob

> www.acuherbals.com

>

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com>> wrote:

> Attilio states,

>

> " If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then only those deemed

> as herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs. "

>

> That is not likely to happen here in the US, as CAM is becoming more the

> talk

> you will see more interest from the MD, who have no training. Herbalists

> do not exist as any kind of entity and are in a much worse place than the

> LAc

> as far as professional stature. What you will see is one profession

> dominated

> and taken over by another, and maybe even eliminated unless you also have

> an MD license. Politics and money determine a lot. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> To:

Chinese Medicine<Chinese Medicine%40\

From>:

> attiliodalberto <attiliodalberto%40.co.ukDate>: Tue,

> 6 Mar 2007 13:56:18 +0000Re: herb sales online

>

> It's all about how herbs are classified and regulation of herbal medicine.

> At the moment in the US, herbs are classified as foods, which means anyone

> can sell and not just herbalists. If herbal medicine was regulated, like in

> Europe, then only those deemed as herbalists can prescribe and sell

> medicinal herbs.I'm sure the US will follow Europe and regulate herbal

> medicine, its just a question of when.Attiliowww.chinesemedicinetimes.com---

In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Diane Notarianni " <Diane wrote:>> I guess that's really my

> question...why is this happening? I know, after talking with these > very

> reputatable companies that they say they don't sell to non practitioners but

> here is an > example of just that. I won't use one company just because they

> have no policy to be > suppliers for practitioners ONLY. When money

> overrides people's health, I begin to > wonder what this is all about?> >

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> ,

> anne.crowley@ wrote:> >> > I don;t know how it happens but I did tell a

> story of a patient who bought Calm Spirit by > Health Concerns online.> > >

> > She said " Oh, I ran out so I bought a big bottle. " I explained that it was

> prescribed for > her, so a health practitioner should be giving instructions

> on it. > > > > I refer people to lots of over the counter natural products

> but really don't like them > taking these formulas on their own. > > > >

> Anyone know of why it's happening.> > > > > > > > -------------- Original

> message ----------------------> > " Diane Notarianni " <Diane@>> > > I

> came across a website (wellnessworks.net) selling what looks like one of

> the > > > most > > > comprehensive lists of all the herbs and herbal

> companies that we use. I was > > > under the > > > conception that good

> companies like Kan, Health Concerns, Chinese Modular > > > Solutions and > >

> > many others were NOT selling to the general public. > > > Can anyone

> explain to me if this is

> legal or what this is about? I don't think > > > I need to mention > > >

> how this can affect the patient nor us as practitioners. Diane> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

John:

 

the points you raise here are why i feel we need some reg. of ch herbs. in

order to protect our access to the herbs, we need to able to demonstrate

that we are knowledgeable in the use of the herbs, and in our hands they are

safely administered to the public. this is why i feel we need regs giving

access to ch herbs to NCCAOM cert. ch. herbalists. this is not about $ and

competition, this is about retaining access to our herbs so that we can

continue to use them to tx the public. joe public doesn't know sh__ about

ch herbs, and when he takes them unsupervised, that's when the problems

occur. even gan cao in high doses causes cardiac probs, and what's to

prevent joe public from using high doses of licorice, avail. by the pound at

the local health food store?

 

btw: found a source for ma huang granules. i'll email you privately if

you're in need. if anyone knows how to get it in bulk, my wheezing patients

would be obliged. there's no suitable sub.

 

kb

 

 

On 3/6/07, <johnkokko wrote:

>

> I agree that there should be industrial standards within Chinese

> herbalism,

> because the FDA may in the near future ban anything that may be in any way

> controversial or competitive of other unnamed industries.

> For instance, zhi ke and zhi shi may be the next thing to go (due to its

> bp

> raising capabilities and occasional inclusion in weight-loss formulas)

> Chinese herbalists and Western herbalists should band together to create

> standards for at least the purity of what is sold in the United States ie.

> heavy metals, pesticides, preservatives, chemical id...,

> so that what is available on the internet, in stores and in clinics, is

> safe

> for the public.

> (We have talked about some of the counterfeit stuff that comes out of

> China

> etc)

> Also, I agree that acupuncturists and guild herbalists should be the ones

> calling the shots,

> not blue-suits or research associates, who have never even heard of the

> herbs before.

>

> Also, does the United States have an equivalent to Germany's Commission E

> ?

> There needs to be more education proliferated from within to get the

> public

> hip to the seriousness of what we do.

> For one, I'm glad that ma huang is not as easily available as it was a

> year

> ago for the public.

> But what about a serious practitioner who really knows how to use it and

> cant' get it now, in helping someone with debilitating asthma?

> It's legal for a licensed practitioner to use ma huang, but who can get

> any

> these days?

> That opportunity is lost.

>

> There are a whole bunch of herbs that are on the chopping block.

> I'm glad we're having this conversation.

> k.

>

> On 3/6/07, Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist

<boblindeherbalist<boblindeherbalist%40>>

> wrote:

> >

> > Actually the herbalists are getting well organized and setting a

> > standard of profesionalism check out www.americanherbalistsguild.com the

> > idea is that if we don't regulate herbalisms from within at some point

> the

> > feds will try and do it for us....I'm guessing we will not like the

> > standards they will set. The professional status they set is Registered

> > Herbalist (RH) which i consider I higher standard thay CH since that

> board

> > exam merely shows that you can memorize and that you sat in class.

> > bob

> > www.acuherbals.com

> >

> > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

<naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com><naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com>> wrote:

> > Attilio states,

> >

> > " If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then only those

> deemed

> > as herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs. "

> >

> > That is not likely to happen here in the US, as CAM is becoming more the

> > talk

> > you will see more interest from the MD, who have no training. Herbalists

> > do not exist as any kind of entity and are in a much worse place than

> the

> > LAc

> > as far as professional stature. What you will see is one profession

> > dominated

> > and taken over by another, and maybe even eliminated unless you also

> have

> > an MD license. Politics and money determine a lot. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > To:

Chinese Medicine<Chinese Medicine%40\

From>

> <Chinese Medicine%40From>:

> > attiliodalberto

<attiliodalberto%40.co.ukDate><attiliodalberto%

> 40.co.ukDate>: Tue,

> > 6 Mar 2007 13:56:18 +0000Re: herb sales online

> >

> > It's all about how herbs are classified and regulation of herbal

> medicine.

> > At the moment in the US, herbs are classified as foods, which means

> anyone

> > can sell and not just herbalists. If herbal medicine was regulated, like

> in

> > Europe, then only those deemed as herbalists can prescribe and sell

> > medicinal herbs.I'm sure the US will follow Europe and regulate herbal

> > medicine, its just a question of

> when.Attiliowww.chinesemedicinetimes.com--- In

> >

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> > " Diane Notarianni " <Diane wrote:>> I guess that's really my

> > question...why is this happening? I know, after talking with these >

> very

> > reputatable companies that they say they don't sell to non practitioners

> but

> > here is an > example of just that. I won't use one company just because

> they

> > have no policy to be > suppliers for practitioners ONLY. When money

> > overrides people's health, I begin to > wonder what this is all about?>

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > ,

> > anne.crowley@ wrote:> >> > I don;t know how it happens but I did tell a

> > story of a patient who bought Calm Spirit by > Health Concerns online.>

> > >

> > > She said " Oh, I ran out so I bought a big bottle. " I explained that it

> was

> > prescribed for > her, so a health practitioner should be giving

> instructions

> > on it. > > > > I refer people to lots of over the counter natural

> products

> > but really don't like them > taking these formulas on their own. > > > >

> > Anyone know of why it's happening.> > > > > > > > --------------

> Original

> > message ----------------------> > " Diane Notarianni " <Diane@>> > >

> I

> > came across a website (wellnessworks.net) selling what looks like one of

> > the > > > most > > > comprehensive lists of all the herbs and herbal

> > companies that we use. I was > > > under the > > > conception that good

> > companies like Kan, Health Concerns, Chinese Modular > > > Solutions and

> > >

> > > many others were NOT selling to the general public. > > > Can anyone

> > explain to me if this is

> > legal or what this is about? I don't think > > > I need to mention > > >

> > how this can affect the patient nor us as practitioners. Diane> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > > > > > > >