Chemotherapy side-effects

[Guest guest]

Hi all, I'll just throw one sign at you, wondering if anyone has treated anyone

with /white/ skin, zero circulation, due to chemotherapeutic agents. The tissue

is weak and can rip or abrade easily. It is slowly increasing in size. Lower

calves. I will have more details and photographs next week. Anyone recognise

this so far?

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Parchment-skin as a side effect from longterm cortisone therapy

comes to my mind.

chemotherapeutic agents in my experience act like heat-toxins,

scorching the yin fluids leading to bloodstasis in the end,

mudanpi, danshen, danggui, niuxi (especially with " Lower calves " ),

zhimu are my favourite herbals

in that case.

Check what kind of deficiency, heat toxin or what type of stagnation

is causing the malnutrition of the skin.

 

 

> Hi all, I'll just throw one sign at you, wondering if anyone has

treated anyone with /white/ skin, zero circulation, due to

chemotherapeutic agents. The tissue is weak and can rip or abrade

easily. It is slowly increasing in size. Lower calves. I will have more

details and photographs next week. Anyone recognise this so far?

> Thanks,

> Hugo

>

[Guest guest]

It's called being poisoned.Chemotherapy kills more people than cancer.

[Guest guest]

Hey Cullen...I'd be interested if you had more info to back this up.

 

Hugo

 

 

cullen78704 <cullen78704

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's called being poisoned.Chemothera py kills more people than

cancer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Please learn more.

Chemo kills cancer, eastern medicine helps patients cope. Functional/integrated

medicine works. No longer do we have the " pure " body that eastern medicine

treated. We must move with the culture, which is far from where we began.

 

-

cullen78704

Monday, March 05, 2007 7:18 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

It's called being poisoned.Chemotherapy kills more people than cancer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I treat many chemo/radiation patients. Treat what you see.! It helps.

 

-

tayfx

Monday, March 05, 2007 7:05 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

Parchment-skin as a side effect from longterm cortisone therapy

comes to my mind.

chemotherapeutic agents in my experience act like heat-toxins,

scorching the yin fluids leading to bloodstasis in the end,

mudanpi, danshen, danggui, niuxi (especially with " Lower calves " ),

zhimu are my favourite herbals

in that case.

Check what kind of deficiency, heat toxin or what type of stagnation

is causing the malnutrition of the skin.

 

> Hi all, I'll just throw one sign at you, wondering if anyone has

treated anyone with /white/ skin, zero circulation, due to

chemotherapeutic agents. The tissue is weak and can rip or abrade

easily. It is slowly increasing in size. Lower calves. I will have more

details and photographs next week. Anyone recognise this so far?

> Thanks,

> Hugo

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Without a doubt.I will get some links together and get

back to you soon.I hope you are not taking a defensive

position,as I am not.I am just tired of pretending

that western alopathic medicine has not failed

miserably in the way of cancer research and

treatments.With the exception of a few very rare

types.

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jason. I am not defensive. Chemo, as a toxic treatment is inherently

dangerous. We have a big black gap in our information regarding chemo in some

regards.

Hugo

 

 

Jason Senko <cullen78704

Chinese Medicine

Monday, 5 March, 2007 10:24:32 PM

Re: Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Without a doubt.I will get some links together and get

 

back to you soon.I hope you are not taking a defensive

 

position,as I am not.I am just tired of pretending

 

that western alopathic medicine has not failed

 

miserably in the way of cancer research and

 

treatments.With the exception of a few very rare

 

types.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

What does this mean? How do interpret what you see? Different

practitioners see different things, some more in depth, some more

superficially.

 

 

On Mar 5, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Joan Tirro wrote:

 

> I treat many chemo/radiation patients. Treat what you see.! It helps.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I don't agree. You are over-simplifying a very complex

situation. The effectiveness of chemotherapy is quite variable

depending on type of cancer, stage, strength of the patient, attitude

of the patient. There is plenty of room for cooperative, integrative

thinking in oncology, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical

of present approaches. Cancer has still not been cured at this point.

 

 

On Mar 5, 2007, at 7:13 PM, Joan Tirro wrote:

 

> Please learn more.

> Chemo kills cancer, eastern medicine helps patients cope.

> Functional/integrated medicine works. No longer do we have the

> " pure " body that eastern medicine treated. We must move with the

> culture, which is far from where we began.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree with this,Dr. Candace Pert who wrote molecues of Emotion and on her

more recent work, the Cd of your Body is Your Subconcious Mind also verbally

states this fact, chemotherapy and the western way of treating cancer is not

successful except in a very few cases.There are links to back this up and i

will forward some of those that I have to the group. Dr. Are Thorensen, a

master of the ko Cycle and a veterinarian from Norway that treats both

animals and people animals has much experience with seeing both sides.It is

under his training i first heard the term, chemotherapy call it what it is,

it is cell poisoning.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

 

 

Jason Senko <cullen78704

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:24:32 -0800 (PST)

 

Without a doubt.I will get some links together and get

back to you soon.I hope you are not taking a defensive

position,as I am not.I am just tired of pretending

that western alopathic medicine has not failed

miserably in the way of cancer research and

treatments.With the exception of a few very rare

types.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

read Dr. Samuel S. Epstein, MD and you'll be closer.

 

_http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/_ (http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/)

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[Guest guest]

Foreword (The Politics of Cancer- Revisited)

 

Cancer remains one of the deadliest forces known to mankind, as it has been

for centuries. Beyond the millions of people living with cancer, millions

more live in fear of one day being diagnosed with the disease. Probably

everyone

in the country has known someone who has struggled to overcome cancer, or

who has eventually succumbed to it. Although physicians and scientists

continually try to improve diagnosis and treatment of this dreaded disease,

over half

a million Americans will die of cancer in this year alone.

The Federal government enjoined the medical crusade against cancer in 1927

with a funding allocation for cancer research, and in 1937 Congress

established the National Cancer Institute which operated with modest funding

for

several decades. However, it wasn't until 1971 that President Nixon declared a

national " war against cancer " and the National Cancer Act was passed. At that

time, Congress was led to believe that an infusion of funding devoted to cancer

research could produce a cure before the American Bicentennial in 1976.

When Dr. Epstein published The Politics of Cancer in 1978, Congress had

increased the budget for the National Cancer Institute to $872 million, from

$233

million in 1971, a cure was still nowhere in sight, and there was

considerable debate as to how the war against cancer should be fought. Dr.

Epstein and

many of his colleagues in the public health community argued for a more

aggressive assault on the preventable causes of cancer that people are

unknowingly

exposed to on a daily basis -- at home, on the job, and in the environment

-- and often at low doses over a long period of time.

Today, the annual budget for the National Cancer Institute is over $2.5

billion, half a billion more than all of the combined budgets from the year it

was founded to the year the war against cancer was declared. One thing that we

have learned from this massive investment is that the hope for a simple cure

was naive. The uncontrolled and destructive cell growth that can attack any

part of the body is far more complex than was once thought. Although

scientific knowledge about cancer has continued to expand, and significant

progress

has been made in new areas such as cancer genetics and improved techniques for

detection, diagnosis, and treatments, the goal for a cure remains elusive and

distant.

Despite NCI's growth, Dr. Epstein contends that cancer prevention is still

greatly overlooked. In 1992, Dr. Epstein and a group of national experts and

former federal officials in public health and cancer prevention held a press

conference to engage the public on this imbalance. The group argued that the

national cancer program should break from a focus on cancer treatment and do

more to reduce the number of people getting cancer in the first place.

Pointing to the continued onslaught of new cases of cancer, they urged that the

NCI

devote as many resources in research and outreach for cancer cause and

prevention as for diagnosis and treatment. The NCI could then provide workers,

consumers, Congress, and regulatory agencies vital information to reduce our

exposure to carcinogens in air, water, food, and the workplace. The underlying

goal of this change in policy is to reduce the rate of people getting cancer in

each age group down to a level seen in the first half of the century.

In recent years, the National Cancer Institute has released some seemingly

encouraging news. In 1997, the NCI reported the first sustained, significant

decrease in cancer mortality rates since these statistics were collected in

the 1930s. More recently, in March 1998, the NCI reported that the overall rate

of new cancer cases being diagnosed, or the incidence rate, increased by 1.2

percent per year from 1973 to 1990, then declined by 0.7 percent per year

through 1995. The reduction occurred in three of the most common cancers,

including lung, colorectal and prostate cancer. Breast cancer rates have

leveled,

after increasing at 1.8 percent per year. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma had been

rising at the rate of 3.5 percent per year, and is now increasing at a rate of

0.8 percent per year. The NCI reported the rate of people dying from cancer

declined overall by 0.5 percent per year.

These figures sound promising, and it is easy to interpret them as

significant medical achievements, and as the precursor to the eventual

eradication of

this disease in our generation. I wish that they were. In this book, Dr.

Epstein critiques the NCI statistics and provides a skeptic's view to help us

understand these figures in a historical context. The fact remains that the

overall incidence of cancer is much higher than it was twenty-five years ago,

and

survival rates for most common cancers remain unchanged.

The direction the Federal government takes in investing public resources in

cancer research should be guided in the context of an open and vibrant debate

among NCI, outside experts, and the public. The Institute of Medicine

recently published a set of recommendations on setting priorities at the

National

Institutes of Health that emphasize a need to increase public participation in

the agency's funding decisions. The recommendations confirm that the

public's priorities should be included in the patchwork of factors used to

decide

how we invest finite research dollars to improve the nation's health.

As the National Cancer Institute continues its scientific investigations,

with periodic announcements of achievements, discoveries, and hopes for the

future (some recent studies suggest a reason for controlled optimism), The

Politics of Cancer Revisited provides a highly critical review of the current

state of our nation's struggle to reduce the incidence and mortality of cancer.

Twenty years ago, the author's publication brought attention to the dangers of

ignoring chemical hazards in our environment. I hope this new book will

reinvigorate the debate on the direction of our cancer research and prevention

efforts with the aim to optimize our nation's resources to spare as many lives

as possible from this deadly disease.

Congressman David Obey (D-Wisc.)

August 5, 1998

 

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[Guest guest]

Frankly, I am not sure just what " effectiveness " means? I am not disagreeing

with you at

all but rather, trying to understand the goal here. I think I hear different

goals and that

needs to be identified.

 

Related....what about long term effects of chemotherapy? Diane

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<zrosenbe

wrote:

>

> Sorry, I don't agree. You are over-simplifying a very complex

> situation. The effectiveness of chemotherapy is quite variable

> depending on type of cancer, stage, strength of the patient, attitude

> of the patient. There is plenty of room for cooperative, integrative

> thinking in oncology, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical

> of present approaches. Cancer has still not been cured at this point.

>

>

> On Mar 5, 2007, at 7:13 PM, Joan Tirro wrote:

>

> > Please learn more.

> > Chemo kills cancer, eastern medicine helps patients cope.

> > Functional/integrated medicine works. No longer do we have the

> > " pure " body that eastern medicine treated. We must move with the

> > culture, which is far from where we began.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jason: I am interested in this thread. It is a huge question to take the side

effects of chemo or use purely alternative treatments.

 

Anne

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Jason Senko <cullen78704

> Without a doubt.I will get some links together and get

> back to you soon.I hope you are not taking a defensive

> position,as I am not.I am just tired of pretending

> that western alopathic medicine has not failed

> miserably in the way of cancer research and

> treatments.With the exception of a few very rare

> types.

>

>

>

>

______________________________

> ____

> The fish are biting.

> Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

> http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I don't have all the answers.I simply believe what I

was taught.I was taught when using herbs(or in this

case toxic drugs)the first rule is to do no harm.Chemo

directly harms the patient,I really don't think anyone

that has ever seen someone go through it would

disagree.It is very easy for us to try and clean up

the mess that has been made of cancer treatment in the

U.S. But is it ethical to allow the myth to be

perpetuated.Face it,there is way too much money being

made on a treatment that would probably fare worse

statistically than a few simple dietary

changes.Billions of dollars are spent on a branch of

medicine that completely dropped the ball.I don't have

all the answers but I can assure you that if someone

gave me a billion dollars to spend on the issue,I

could come up with something better than poisonous

drug therapy.Take greed out of the equation and maybe

we can get something done.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Chemotherapy may not be the best treatment for some cancers or other

diseases, but it is still an option. I am treating a woman with chronic

renal failure who refused to get chemotherapy. I agreed to try Chinese herbs

for a while, and after two months of treatment I convinced her to go back to

her specialist and discuss her case with him. I even made the phone call for

her, and the specialist was happy to hear that she would now try the therapy

he suggested. Together with a Chinese herbal formula.

The results are much better than he expected (they expected her case to

develop into Kahler's disease but it didn't), and the nephrology team now

thinks that her relatively speedy recovery is partly due to the herbs she is

taking.

I sincerely hope there is a future for integrative medicine. Every disease

that has been treated well is a positive matter, no matter how we got there,

with chemotherapy or herbs.

 

best,

 

Tom.

 

----

 

Jason Senko

6/03/2007 17:25:39

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

I don't have all the answers.I simply believe what I

was taught.I was taught when using herbs(or in this

case toxic drugs)the first rule is to do no harm.Chemo

directly harms the patient,I really don't think anyone

that has ever seen someone go through it would

disagree.It is very easy for us to try and clean up

the mess that has been made of cancer treatment in the

U.S. But is it ethical to allow the myth to be

perpetuated.Face it,there is way too much money being

made on a treatment that would probably fare worse

statistically than a few simple dietary

changes.Billions of dollars are spent on a branch of

medicine that completely dropped the ball.I don't have

all the answers but I can assure you that if someone

gave me a billion dollars to spend on the issue,I

could come up with something better than poisonous

drug therapy.Take greed out of the equation and maybe

we can get something done.

 

________

Need Mail bonding?

Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am not all for chemotherapy either, but I think we should help patients view

the whole picture better, including chemotherapy. CM doesn't have to " own " the

patient's treatment exclusively. In early 2003, I had a case of acute leukemia.

The patient was under the case of a large HMO hospital, being treated as flu

with fever. I sensed the high probability of leukemia with my CM and WM

knowledge and asked her to do a blood test. (I even had herbal formula

prescribed, but decided to have her take the blood test first.) Because of the

acute nature and the relative good constitution and young age (31) I recommended

chemotherapy, which was started in less than 4 days after my initial diagnosis.

The follow up herbal formula had helped her speedy recovery.

 

It is unfortunate that cancer often is detected late, but it's fortunate that

we CM practitioners may be able to detect earlier. If we all polish our

diagnosis skills we can save lives by detecting early.

 

It is unfortunate that the mainstream treatment of using chemotherapy is

likely to cause side effects but it's fortunate that CM help reducing that.

 

Mike L.

 

 

Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote:

 

Chemotherapy may not be the best treatment for some cancers or other

diseases, but it is still an option. I am treating a woman with chronic

renal failure who refused to get chemotherapy. I agreed to try Chinese herbs

for a while, and after two months of treatment I convinced her to go back to

her specialist and discuss her case with him. I even made the phone call for

her, and the specialist was happy to hear that she would now try the therapy

he suggested. Together with a Chinese herbal formula.

The results are much better than he expected (they expected her case to

develop into Kahler's disease but it didn't), and the nephrology team now

thinks that her relatively speedy recovery is partly due to the herbs she is

taking.

I sincerely hope there is a future for integrative medicine. Every disease

that has been treated well is a positive matter, no matter how we got there,

with chemotherapy or herbs.

 

best,

 

Tom.

 

----

 

Jason Senko

6/03/2007 17:25:39

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

I don't have all the answers.I simply believe what I

was taught.I was taught when using herbs(or in this

case toxic drugs)the first rule is to do no harm.Chemo

directly harms the patient,I really don't think anyone

that has ever seen someone go through it would

disagree.It is very easy for us to try and clean up

the mess that has been made of cancer treatment in the

U.S. But is it ethical to allow the myth to be

perpetuated.Face it,there is way too much money being

made on a treatment that would probably fare worse

statistically than a few simple dietary

changes.Billions of dollars are spent on a branch of

medicine that completely dropped the ball.I don't have

all the answers but I can assure you that if someone

gave me a billion dollars to spend on the issue,I

could come up with something better than poisonous

drug therapy.Take greed out of the equation and maybe

we can get something done.

 

________

Need Mail bonding?

Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I'd have to write a long chapter to answer you adequately, and

there is not space or time here for that. Let me think about what

would be a good answer and get back to you at some point.

 

We have a few subjects to cover:

 

1) long-term effects of chemotherapy

 

2) pros and cons of chemotherapy in cancer treatment

 

3) the role of Chinese medicine in treating cancer patients

 

4) the role of integrative medicine in treating cancer patients

 

5) the etiology of the various cancers from a Chinese medical

perspective. This is quite complex.

 

 

On Mar 6, 2007, at 5:33 AM, Diane Notarianni wrote:

 

> Frankly, I am not sure just what " effectiveness " means? I am not

> disagreeing with you at

> all but rather, trying to understand the goal here. I think I hear

> different goals and that

> needs to be identified.

>

> Related....what about long term effects of chemotherapy? Diane

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

> Rosenberg " <zrosenbe

> wrote:

> >

> > Sorry, I don't agree. You are over-simplifying a very complex

> > situation. The effectiveness of chemotherapy is quite variable

> > depending on type of cancer, stage, strength of the patient,

> attitude

> > of the patient. There is plenty of room for cooperative, integrative

> > thinking in oncology, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical

> > of present approaches. Cancer has still not been cured at this

> point.

> >

> >

> > On Mar 5, 2007, at 7:13 PM, Joan Tirro wrote:

> >

> > > Please learn more.

> > > Chemo kills cancer, eastern medicine helps patients cope.

> > > Functional/integrated medicine works. No longer do we have the

> > > " pure " body that eastern medicine treated. We must move with the

> > > culture, which is far from where we began.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Another good resource is The Cancer Industry by Ralph W. Moss, PhD.

 

acudoc11 wrote: read Dr. Samuel S. Epstein, MD and you'll be

closer.

 

_http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/_ (http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/)

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[Guest guest]

Tom,

 

You are right on target. Chemotherapy alone is indeed poison, yet when

integrated with Chinese herbs (and I hope some day, other global herbs utilizing

the methodologies of Chinese medicine), you turn lemons into lemonade. BUT WE

MUST EDUCATE OURSELVES AND OUR STUDENTS TO SPEAK " ONCOLOGESE " AND LEARN

INTEGRATIVE PROTOCOLS WHICH CAN EMPOWER US TO SAVE INNUMERABLE LIVES!

 

Yehuda

 

 

Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote:

 

Chemotherapy may not be the best treatment for some cancers or other

diseases, but it is still an option. I am treating a woman with chronic

renal failure who refused to get chemotherapy. I agreed to try Chinese herbs

for a while, and after two months of treatment I convinced her to go back to

her specialist and discuss her case with him. I even made the phone call for

her, and the specialist was happy to hear that she would now try the therapy

he suggested. Together with a Chinese herbal formula.

The results are much better than he expected (they expected her case to

develop into Kahler's disease but it didn't), and the nephrology team now

thinks that her relatively speedy recovery is partly due to the herbs she is

taking.

I sincerely hope there is a future for integrative medicine. Every disease

that has been treated well is a positive matter, no matter how we got there,

with chemotherapy or herbs.

 

best,

 

Tom.

 

----

 

Jason Senko

6/03/2007 17:25:39

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Chemotherapy side-effects

 

I don't have all the answers.I simply believe what I

was taught.I was taught when using herbs(or in this

case toxic drugs)the first rule is to do no harm.Chemo

directly harms the patient,I really don't think anyone

that has ever seen someone go through it would

disagree.It is very easy for us to try and clean up

the mess that has been made of cancer treatment in the

U.S. But is it ethical to allow the myth to be

perpetuated.Face it,there is way too much money being

made on a treatment that would probably fare worse

statistically than a few simple dietary

changes.Billions of dollars are spent on a branch of

medicine that completely dropped the ball.I don't have

all the answers but I can assure you that if someone

gave me a billion dollars to spend on the issue,I

could come up with something better than poisonous

drug therapy.Take greed out of the equation and maybe

we can get something done.

 

________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Joan, & All,

 

Joan Tirro wrote:

> I treat many chemo/radiation patients. Treat what you see.! It helps.

 

That is sound advice way beyond treating chemo patients!

 

I use that philosophy every time I treat a horse for performance problems

(usually myofascial pain). I have learned that TCM Philosophy - that the #1

Reality is the Law of Change - is correct in my experience. Do not assume

that what you meet today (even in the same patient) is the same as whet

you met last week!

 

; no matter what I saw last time (maybe 1 week ago) I treat what I see

NOW.

 

Best regards,