Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Anne, I'll tell you an antecdote about Long Dan Xie Gan Wan: I had a patient,a manic-depressive who had excess phlegm and liver fire, call me up desparately, " Help me! I feel like I'm dying. My heart is beating a mile a minute, my face is on fire, I'm sweating like crazy, and I can't sleep. " Her pulses were wiry and rapid, and her tongue had a red body with a dry yellow coating and teethmarks on the sides. She had previously scheduled to see me in 5 days. I prescribed LDXGW, with explicit instructions to take if for 2 days only, and then call me before taking any more! I never heard from her until the appointment. When she showed up, it was like hearing a tape recorder, " Help me! I feel like i'm dying " I asked her if her racing heart settled down, she said, yes!, was she still burning up? no!, Was she still sweating? no! If she still unable to sleep? no! So what's wrong? " I'm freezing now, and a haven't made a bowel movement in 3 days. HELLO! What did I ask her to do? Call me in 2 days and don't take anymore of the medicine without speaking to me. This is a medicine that is readily available by mail to the public? Not terribly appropriate, methinks. Yehuda anne.crowley wrote: David: I am not crazy about regulating it, however, I do think taking herbs on your own, without some practitioner oversight can potentially be dangerous. I prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan to this patient for an acute condition. I don't want her taking it over the long run, unless the condition flares up. She is the one who has access to the internet store. I really want her to see me or someone else who tells her that what is going on with her at the moment warrents a particular herb. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " David Botton " <david > You have described the current situation. I think though that you will find not > every one > agrees that making herbs available OTC is a bad thing for the patients or > profession. The > problem is that regulating away personal rites form people to force them to use > a CM > practitioner's services for non dangerous substances is exactly what will hurt > the quality of > service provided in the long and short term. > > Making relatively safe products " controlled " substances is hardly the sort of PR > image we > should be trying to portray, instead portraying CM professionals as > knowledgeable in how > to pick and tailor the right formula (all the more so custom formulas) and > treatment > protocols is a more positive and productive image. > > We need to think about raising the bar on our capabilities as practitioners to > differentiate > between the " aspirin " they get over the counter and the " penicillin " they should > be getting > from us. > > If we agree to legislate away others rights, what is to stop those rights from > being > legislated away from us? (look up the history of Florida's naturopaths as an > interesting > case study) > > > David Botton > > > Chinese Medicine , " " > wrote: > > > > i think in lieu of a legal fda regulation it would be helpful if the > > acupuncture community could work with the herb supply co's to develop > > something equivalent to pharmaceutical grade vitamins for herbs (which is > > probably what we have already) and then get an agreement that the supply > > co's won't sell to a vendor selling who sells directly to the public. > > without fda involvement, it would be impossible to enforce. even with fda > > involvement it would be diff. anyone who puts making a buck (yen, pound, > > peso, whatever) ahead of what's best for patients and for our profession > > will disregard the regs, go ahead and sell the products until some gvm't > > agency comes along and forces them to stop. > > > > kath > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 > I am not crazy about regulating it, however, I do think taking herbs on your own, without some practitioner oversight can potentially be dangerous. As pointed out over drinking water is dangerous too. The idea of creating regulation to control stupidity on the part of consumers is a bad policy, it ends up hurting everyone in the end. The answer here is to educate the public on why our services are superior to self medication. > I prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan to this patient for an acute condition. I don't want her taking it over the long run, unless the condition flares up. She is the one who has access to the internet store. I really want her to see me or someone else who tells her that what is going on with her at the moment warrents a particular herb. It is not our jobs to enforce compliance. Also Long Dan Xie Gan Wan still does not pose direct danger that should require regulation. I have never prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan with out a warning that long term use can be damaging to the kidneys and similar such warnings that any prescription is " customized " to your current condition. I also state from day one that herb prescriptions will change continually through out the healing process. Here is one of many ways to handle this, instead of handing them an OTC bottle you had them a baggy or your own bottle and label with the exact amount of pills they need from your pharmacy. Explain to them to take only what is in the container and no more and in this case you can probably charge them the same price as a bottle with out them batting an eyelash. What makes you think that regulation of herbs will actually allow CM practitioners to have access to them? I am sure the " Registered Herbalist (AHG) " if they have the money would do anything in their power to insure you need their certification to recommend or prescribe herbs... (we already saw one claim of superiority on this list....) The MDs theirs.... The DOs theirs..... etc etc. Sorry, but regulation has never helped any ones accept those that can afford to lobby the government for their special exception to the regulation. David Botton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Bob: This 4 yrs clinical can be at a distance, right? Supervised by Michael Tierra, or someone like him, in California. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist > They actually require 4 years clinical experience and some type of training, > formal or informal, case studies, and essay questions. Most folks are turned way > the first time aswell for a lack of experience, this material is looked at by a > 3 tiered review board as well as a requirement for continuing education. > B > > anne.crowley wrote: > Bob: > > I respectfully disagree. To sit for the exam, you need so many clinical hours. I > think when people go to see a professional , they expect them to have attended > some formal training, hopefully college. Granted the RH may have a lot of > knowledge but I also want to see the formal training. > > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist > > Actually the herbalists are getting well organized and setting a standard of > > profesionalism check out www.americanherbalistsguild.com the idea is that if > we > > don't regulate herbalisms from within at some point the feds will try and do > it > > for us....I'm guessing we will not like the standards they will set. The > > professional status they set is Registered Herbalist (RH) which i consider I > > higher standard thay CH since that board exam merely shows that you can > memorize > > and that you sat in class. > > bob > > www.acuherbals.com > > > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Attilio states, > > > > " If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then only those deemed as > > herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs. " > > > > That is not likely to happen here in the US, as CAM is becoming more the talk > > you will see more interest from the MD, who have no training. Herbalists > > do not exist as any kind of entity and are in a much worse place than the LAc > > as far as professional stature. What you will see is one profession dominated > > and taken over by another, and maybe even eliminated unless you also have > > an MD license. Politics and money determine a lot. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > : > > attiliodalberto: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:56:18 +0000TCM - > > Re: herb sales online > > > > It's all about how herbs are classified and regulation of herbal medicine. At > > the moment in the US, herbs are classified as foods, which means anyone can > sell > > and not just herbalists. If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, > then > > only those deemed as herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs.I'm > sure > > the US will follow Europe and regulate herbal medicine, its just a question of > > when.Attiliowww.chinesemedicinetimes.com --- In > > Chinese Medicine , " Diane Notarianni " <Diane > > wrote:>> I guess that's really my question...why is this happening? I know, > > after talking with these > very reputatable companies that they say they don't > > sell to non practitioners but here is an > example of just that. I won't use > one > > company just because they have no policy to be > suppliers for practitioners > > ONLY. When money overrides people's health, I begin to > wonder what this is > all > > about?> > Chinese Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ wrote:> >> > I don;t know how it happens but I did tell a story > > of a patient who bought Calm Spirit by > Health Concerns online.> > > > She > said > > " Oh, I ran out so I bought a big bottle. " I explained that it was prescribed > for > > > her, so a health practitioner should be giving instructions on it. > > > > I > > refer people to lots of over the counter natural products but really don't > like > > them > taking these formulas on their own. > > > > Anyone know of why it's > > happening.> > > > > > > > -------------- Original message > > ----------------------> > " Diane Notarianni " <Diane@>> > > I came across > a > > website (wellnessworks.net) selling what looks like one of the > > > most > > > > > > comprehensive lists of all the herbs and herbal companies that we use. I was > > > > > > under the > > > conception that good companies like Kan, Health Concerns, > > Chinese Modular > > > Solutions and > > > many others were NOT selling to the > > general public. > > > Can anyone explain to me if this is > > legal or what this is about? I don't think > > > I need to mention > > > how > > this can affect the patient nor us as practitioners. Diane> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 When MD's take over some aspects of herbal medicine, the FDA bans herbs because of fears it can kill people when not prescribed properly and quality is an issue and when you don't have access to primary healthcare, don't moan about it, coz that's the path you chose. All those problems could be eliminated if regulation was introduced. It would benefit practitioners, the industry and patients. I don't know why everyone is so apposed to it. Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , " David Botton " <david wrote: > > > I am not crazy about regulating it, however, I do think taking herbs on your own, > without some practitioner oversight can potentially be dangerous. > > As pointed out over drinking water is dangerous too. > > The idea of creating regulation to control stupidity on the part of consumers is a bad > policy, it ends up hurting everyone in the end. > > The answer here is to educate the public on why our services are superior to self > medication. > > > I prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan to this patient for an acute condition. I don't want > her taking it over the long run, unless the condition flares up. She is the one who has > access to the internet store. I really want her to see me or someone else who tells her that > what is going on with her at the moment warrents a particular herb. > > It is not our jobs to enforce compliance. Also Long Dan Xie Gan Wan still does not pose > direct danger that should require regulation. I have never prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan > Wan with out a warning that long term use can be damaging to the kidneys and similar > such warnings that any prescription is " customized " to your current condition. I also state > from day one that herb prescriptions will change continually through out the healing > process. > > Here is one of many ways to handle this, instead of handing them an OTC bottle you had > them a baggy or your own bottle and label with the exact amount of pills they need from > your pharmacy. Explain to them to take only what is in the container and no more and in > this case you can probably charge them the same price as a bottle with out them batting > an eyelash. > > What makes you think that regulation of herbs will actually allow CM practitioners to have > access to them? I am sure the " Registered Herbalist (AHG) " if they have the money would > do anything in their power to insure you need their certification to recommend or > prescribe herbs... (we already saw one claim of superiority on this list....) The MDs theirs.... > The DOs theirs..... etc etc. Sorry, but regulation has never helped any ones accept those > that can afford to lobby the government for their special exception to the regulation. > > > David Botton > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I introduced this topic because basically I feel as Anne (below) expressed. I am not in this profession for the money. I love what I do and service is at the core of my being. That said, I do think that certain herbal formula could be taken OTC like gan mao ling as example ( as per Attilio). But, I also feel that herbal medicine is powerful...that is what we use it. Come back to me, go to someone else...give me a phone call... just use the resources available to make the best choices for your own health. I suppose though spending 4 years studying in school and years later does not make a difference if the argument comes down totally to government regulation. I think " government regulation " arguments are significant and valuable but not the whole picture. Diane Chinese Medicine , anne.crowley wrote: > > David: > > I am not crazy about regulating it, however, I do think taking herbs on your own, without some practitioner oversight can potentially be dangerous. I prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan to this patient for an acute condition. I don't want her taking it over the long run, unless the condition flares up. She is the one who has access to the internet store. I really want her to see me or someone else who tells her that what is going on with her at the moment warrents a particular herb. > > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " David Botton " <david > > You have described the current situation. I think though that you will find not > > every one > > agrees that making herbs available OTC is a bad thing for the patients or > > profession. The > > problem is that regulating away personal rites form people to force them to use > > a CM > > practitioner's services for non dangerous substances is exactly what will hurt > > the quality of > > service provided in the long and short term. > > > > Making relatively safe products " controlled " substances is hardly the sort of PR > > image we > > should be trying to portray, instead portraying CM professionals as > > knowledgeable in how > > to pick and tailor the right formula (all the more so custom formulas) and > > treatment > > protocols is a more positive and productive image. > > > > We need to think about raising the bar on our capabilities as practitioners to > > differentiate > > between the " aspirin " they get over the counter and the " penicillin " they should > > be getting > > from us. > > > > If we agree to legislate away others rights, what is to stop those rights from > > being > > legislated away from us? (look up the history of Florida's naturopaths as an > > interesting > > case study) > > > > > > David Botton > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " > > <acukath@> wrote: > > > > > > i think in lieu of a legal fda regulation it would be helpful if the > > > acupuncture community could work with the herb supply co's to develop > > > something equivalent to pharmaceutical grade vitamins for herbs (which is > > > probably what we have already) and then get an agreement that the supply > > > co's won't sell to a vendor selling who sells directly to the public. > > > without fda involvement, it would be impossible to enforce. even with fda > > > involvement it would be diff. anyone who puts making a buck (yen, pound, > > > peso, whatever) ahead of what's best for patients and for our profession > > > will disregard the regs, go ahead and sell the products until some gvm't > > > agency comes along and forces them to stop. > > > > > > kath > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I agree that big business has too much of a role in government. This is seen not just in the US but most countries; although I'm sure it's worse in the US. The only reason why herbal medicine wasn't banned across the whole of Europe was impart because of the lobbying by the big herbal pharmaceutical companies in Germany. And that's where the power comes from, lobbying. This can only be achieved if associations club together and spear-head a campaign for greater freedom. All herbalists in the UK and other parts of Europe are affiliated with the EHPA, which is run by Michael McIntyre. It was he you took on the EU and UK govts and gave us our freedom through the evolvement of regulation. It also helps if you have some powerful people backing you. The ex Beetle Paul McCartney and the future King of England Prince Charles backed Michael McIntyre against the EU. It's good to see royals have some uses So to recap, consolidate your power, get some big players involved and hit the government head on. Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com P.S. No problem about your previous email. I'm sure it was just an off-the-cuff remark. Chinese Medicine , Musiclear wrote: > > > > Simplistically, I would say some people believe government is a benevolent > organization that given a chance will help make everyone's life better. There > are others who believe that given an opportunity, government will make most > situations worse. > > In the US, unfortunately, the more government involvement there is, the > further from " good " things seem to become. > > This is especially true when there are alternative motives involved that > are evident but publicly unspoken. > > The seemingly unspoken motivation of some law enforcement arms of the US > government is to give the drug companies and doctors as much of the pie as > possible. Even if this means the greater good of the people is compromised. > > Until this seemingly obvious situation is recognized, then well meaning > people will wonder why some of us are unwilling to give our right to choose > over to an organization that does not seem have our best interests at heart. > > And to Attilio, my apologies for attacking you in a previous post. It > was rude and does not reflect the respect that I hold for you. > > Chris > > In a message dated 3/7/2007 8:53:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, > attiliodalberto writes: > > When MD's take over some aspects of herbal medicine, the FDA bans > herbs because of fears it can kill people when not prescribed > properly and quality is an issue and when you don't have access to > primary healthcare, don't moan about it, coz that's the path you > chose. > > All those problems could be eliminated if regulation was introduced. > It would benefit practitioners, the industry and patients. I don't > know why everyone is so apposed to it. > > Attilio > www.chinesemedicinewww.chine > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 MT does have a clinical componet to his course but not 4 years...more like two weeks I think. It can be supervised or just someone practicing successfully for that time. MTs course is one path to RH, for the training but still takes time to get accepted. I have found many of his students are excellent herbalists, some are acupuncturists who felt they needed more depth to their herbal studies. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is there are two ways to complete his coourse, first just by taking the written course the other is by attending his 3 10 intensives the final one of which is with him grilling you to no end, if you succeed at the(I have heard that many quit or don't do the final session), he will often give you a letter of recommendation, which certainly carries a lot of weight with the board. B anne.crowley wrote: Bob: This 4 yrs clinical can be at a distance, right? Supervised by Michael Tierra, or someone like him, in California. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist > They actually require 4 years clinical experience and some type of training, > formal or informal, case studies, and essay questions. Most folks are turned way > the first time aswell for a lack of experience, this material is looked at by a > 3 tiered review board as well as a requirement for continuing education. > B > > anne.crowley wrote: > Bob: > > I respectfully disagree. To sit for the exam, you need so many clinical hours. I > think when people go to see a professional , they expect them to have attended > some formal training, hopefully college. Granted the RH may have a lot of > knowledge but I also want to see the formal training. > > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist > > Actually the herbalists are getting well organized and setting a standard of > > profesionalism check out www.americanherbalistsguild.com the idea is that if > we > > don't regulate herbalisms from within at some point the feds will try and do > it > > for us....I'm guessing we will not like the standards they will set. The > > professional status they set is Registered Herbalist (RH) which i consider I > > higher standard thay CH since that board exam merely shows that you can > memorize > > and that you sat in class. > > bob > > www.acuherbals.com > > > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Attilio states, > > > > " If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then only those deemed as > > herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs. " > > > > That is not likely to happen here in the US, as CAM is becoming more the talk > > you will see more interest from the MD, who have no training. Herbalists > > do not exist as any kind of entity and are in a much worse place than the LAc > > as far as professional stature. What you will see is one profession dominated > > and taken over by another, and maybe even eliminated unless you also have > > an MD license. Politics and money determine a lot. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > : > > attiliodalberto: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:56:18 +0000TCM - > > Re: herb sales online > > > > It's all about how herbs are classified and regulation of herbal medicine. At > > the moment in the US, herbs are classified as foods, which means anyone can > sell > > and not just herbalists. If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, > then > > only those deemed as herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs.I'm > sure > > the US will follow Europe and regulate herbal medicine, its just a question of > > when.Attiliowww.chinesemedicinetimes.com --- In > > Chinese Medicine , " Diane Notarianni " <Diane > > wrote:>> I guess that's really my question...why is this happening? I know, > > after talking with these > very reputatable companies that they say they don't > > sell to non practitioners but here is an > example of just that. I won't use > one > > company just because they have no policy to be > suppliers for practitioners > > ONLY. When money overrides people's health, I begin to > wonder what this is > all > > about?> > Chinese Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ wrote:> >> > I don;t know how it happens but I did tell a story > > of a patient who bought Calm Spirit by > Health Concerns online.> > > > She > said > > " Oh, I ran out so I bought a big bottle. " I explained that it was prescribed > for > > > her, so a health practitioner should be giving instructions on it. > > > > I > > refer people to lots of over the counter natural products but really don't > like > > them > taking these formulas on their own. > > > > Anyone know of why it's > > happening.> > > > > > > > -------------- Original message > > ----------------------> > " Diane Notarianni " <Diane@>> > > I came across > a > > website (wellnessworks.net) selling what looks like one of the > > > most > > > > > > comprehensive lists of all the herbs and herbal companies that we use. I was > > > > > > under the > > > conception that good companies like Kan, Health Concerns, > > Chinese Modular > > > Solutions and > > > many others were NOT selling to the > > general public. > > > Can anyone explain to me if this is > > legal or what this is about? I don't think > > > I need to mention > > > how > > this can affect the patient nor us as practitioners. Diane> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Actually they have made sure not to exclude anyone, and do not demean other forms of herbalism. They work very hard to be inclusive and at their conferences you will find many speakers who are well respected with out the RH because they have experience or unique training. There are amazing herbalist/acup out there who have taken the boards and not taken the boards, I tried to state that taking tests do not make a good herbalist or safe regulation. I was also trying to make others aware of an organization that has been trying to find a way to raise the standard for all forms of herbalism, chinese, western, ayuvedic, eclectic and others since all are very powerful medicine that has the potential to be taken away from us. I would encourage anyone who is interested in herbalism to become aware of all the organizations out there that are fighting for them, doing research such as ABC, AHG and AHPA as well as new regulation that are coming soon from the FDA/DSHEA about product labeling, quality control and such. Interesting that all these organization have been writting, lecturing and conversing with the FDA for years to ensure fairness for all herbalists and meet with public saftey. and yet I have read little to none from the AP professional journals/mags.... Bob David Botton <david wrote: > I am not crazy about regulating it, however, I do think taking herbs on your own, without some practitioner oversight can potentially be dangerous. As pointed out over drinking water is dangerous too. The idea of creating regulation to control stupidity on the part of consumers is a bad policy, it ends up hurting everyone in the end. The answer here is to educate the public on why our services are superior to self medication. > I prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan to this patient for an acute condition. I don't want her taking it over the long run, unless the condition flares up. She is the one who has access to the internet store. I really want her to see me or someone else who tells her that what is going on with her at the moment warrents a particular herb. It is not our jobs to enforce compliance. Also Long Dan Xie Gan Wan still does not pose direct danger that should require regulation. I have never prescribed Long Dan Xie Gan Wan with out a warning that long term use can be damaging to the kidneys and similar such warnings that any prescription is " customized " to your current condition. I also state from day one that herb prescriptions will change continually through out the healing process. Here is one of many ways to handle this, instead of handing them an OTC bottle you had them a baggy or your own bottle and label with the exact amount of pills they need from your pharmacy. Explain to them to take only what is in the container and no more and in this case you can probably charge them the same price as a bottle with out them batting an eyelash. What makes you think that regulation of herbs will actually allow CM practitioners to have access to them? I am sure the " Registered Herbalist (AHG) " if they have the money would do anything in their power to insure you need their certification to recommend or prescribe herbs... (we already saw one claim of superiority on this list....) The MDs theirs.... The DOs theirs..... etc etc. Sorry, but regulation has never helped any ones accept those that can afford to lobby the government for their special exception to the regulation. David Botton Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Bob, Thanks for the info but at present time, the herbal education and licensure (or regulation) is lacking and that determines a profession more then simple individuals. For example, the state of MN does not recognize LAc when it comes to insurance coverage of acupuncture but does so for MD/DO/DC who perform acupuncture. Therefore, in the insurance point of view we are not the professionals and they do not have to pay us as they are not mandated to do so. Kind of sad, I know. Yet the point is similar with the herbalists, who have no real educational standards, licensure/govt regulation, etc. I think that there is a potential for turf struggles with OM practitioners, who also use herbs, and this can create problems that will continue. Regulation of herbalists, if it is designed to deal with OM herbs will create a lot of in-fighting and educational concerns. Is the herbalist profession ready to attack the OM community over this issue? As mentioned below, patients do want formal education and direct clinical experience in their providers. I happen to agree with this. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > boblindeherbalist > Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:03:24 -0800 > RE: Re: herb sales online > > They actually require 4 years clinical experience and some type of training, formal or informal, case studies, and essay questions. Most folks are turned way the first time aswell for a lack of experience, this material is looked at by a 3 tiered review board as well as a requirement for continuing education. > B > anne.crowley wrote: > Bob: > I respectfully disagree. To sit for the exam, you need so many clinical hours. I think when people go to see a professional , they expect them to have attended some formal training, hopefully college. Granted the RH may have a lot of knowledge but I also want to see the formal training. > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " Bob Linde,AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist > > Actually the herbalists are getting well organized and setting a standard of > > profesionalism check out www.americanherbalistsguild.com the idea is that if we > > don't regulate herbalisms from within at some point the feds will try and do it > > for us....I'm guessing we will not like the standards they will set. The > > professional status they set is Registered Herbalist (RH) which i consider I > > higher standard thay CH since that board exam merely shows that you can memorize > > and that you sat in class. > > bob > > www.acuherbals.com > > > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Attilio states, > > > > " If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then only those deemed as > > herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs. " > > > > That is not likely to happen here in the US, as CAM is becoming more the talk > > you will see more interest from the MD, who have no training. Herbalists > > do not exist as any kind of entity and are in a much worse place than the LAc > > as far as professional stature. What you will see is one profession dominated > > and taken over by another, and maybe even eliminated unless you also have > > an MD license. Politics and money determine a lot. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > : > > attiliodalberto: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:56:18 +0000TCM - > > Re: herb sales online > > > > It's all about how herbs are classified and regulation of herbal medicine. At > > the moment in the US, herbs are classified as foods, which means anyone can sell > > and not just herbalists. If herbal medicine was regulated, like in Europe, then > > only those deemed as herbalists can prescribe and sell medicinal herbs.I'm sure > > the US will follow Europe and regulate herbal medicine, its just a question of > > when.Attiliowww.chinesemedicinetimes.com --- In > > Chinese Medicine , " Diane Notarianni " > > wrote:>> I guess that's really my question...why is this happening? I know, > > after talking with these > very reputatable companies that they say they don't > > sell to non practitioners but here is an > example of just that. I won't use one > > company just because they have no policy to be > suppliers for practitioners > > ONLY. When money overrides people's health, I begin to > wonder what this is all > > about?> > Chinese Medicine , > > anne.crowley@ wrote:> >> > I don;t know how it happens but I did tell a story > > of a patient who bought Calm Spirit by > Health Concerns online.> > > > She said > > " Oh, I ran out so I bought a big bottle. " I explained that it was prescribed for > > > her, so a health practitioner should be giving instructions on it. > > > > I > > refer people to lots of over the counter natural products but really don't like > > them > taking these formulas on their own. > > > > Anyone know of why it's > > happening.> > > > > > > > -------------- Original message > > ----------------------> > " Diane Notarianni " > > > I came across a > > website (wellnessworks.net) selling what looks like one of the > > > most > > > > > comprehensive lists of all the herbs and herbal companies that we use. I was > > > > > under the > > > conception that good companies like Kan, Health Concerns, > > Chinese Modular > > > Solutions and > > > many others were NOT selling to the > > general public. > > > Can anyone explain to me if this is > > legal or what this is about? I don't think > > > I need to mention > > > how > > this can affect the patient nor us as practitioners. Diane> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hugo, Great idea, lets ban ALL stupidity. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > subincor > Wed, 7 Mar 2007 04:28:42 +0000 > Re: Re: herb sales online > > CHoice, nothing, I been sayin we need to ban dat stuff for years. > Hugo > > " Musiclear " <Musiclear > there was an unfortunate incident where a > women, who was in a water drinking contest, died form her involvement. Sad, > but it was her choice to do it. > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145 > and adjust accordingly. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group > | > Terms of Use | > Un > Recent Activity > 7 > New Members > 1 > New Photos > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 On Wednesday 07 March 2007 8:52 am, wrote: > When MD's take over some aspects of herbal medicine, the FDA bans > herbs because of fears it can kill people when not prescribed > properly and quality is an issue and when you don't have access to > primary healthcare, don't moan about it, coz that's the path you > chose. > > All those problems could be eliminated if regulation was introduced. > It would benefit practitioners, the industry and patients. I don't > know why everyone is so apposed to it. Hi Attilio! In the US, at least, the regulators are usually ignorant and incompetent. They are typically chosen for political or personal reasons rather than in the public interest. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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