LV yang deficiency

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

 

I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

and a bit in 5E,

either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

not with their definition or practice.

 

Thank you in advance for the teachings.

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Theoretically there a couple of levels one can look at liver yangs function

in terms of patterns that are more common:

 

--As rising qi in the body, establishing the upward movement of spleen qi to

the head (which is pathologically accentuated in liver yang ascending

patterns).

 

--As reflecting the strength of the sinews and the physical structure along

with kidney yang/yin (which is refected in the use of yang supplementing

medicinals in the treatment of bone and joint weakness)

 

--As the gallbladders decisiveness and courage as seen in the heart and

gallbladder qi vacuity pattern.

 

I think, in part, this pattern is not recognized so much because the basic

roles that liver yang supports are encompassed by other functions, and the

traditional literature is not geared towards effective treatment, apart from

the obvious warming and supplementation of qi, the use of light ascending

medicinals to " kick-start " the qi mechanism, and the supplementation of

spleens qi/yang in the context of damp drying/transforming.

 

There's an interesting Chinese article at

http://chinesemedicines.net/show.aspx?id=82496 & cid=99 which describes the

possible manifestations of this, and a list of alternative terms that might

come up, like " insufficient liver yang " " liver yang vacuous and

debilitated " .

 

That said, I searched my fairly extensive [though certainly not

comprehensive] database of texts and only found a few incidences of liver

yang vacuity in historical texts. The most hits [9] were from " liver vacuity

cold " examples follow:

 

(Please forgive translation errors)

This links the liver to the mobility and strength of the sinews

å”‧王燾撰‧‧外臺秘è¦:

" 療è‚虛寒勞æ，å£è‹¦ï¼Œéª¨ç¯€ç–¼ç—›ï¼Œç­‹æ”£ç¸®ï¼Œç…©æ‚¶ï¼Œè™Žéª¨é…’補å\

‹žæ骨節疼痛方。 "

Tang dynasty author Wang Daozhuan title Waitaimiyao: To treat liver vacuity

cold taxation damage, [with symptoms like] bone and joint aching pain,

contraction of the siniews, unhappiness, [use] tiger bone wine supplement

taxation damage bone and joint pain formula "

 

Sun Simiao also refers to liver vacuity cold a number of times in the

context of back pain and menstrual irregularity, but basically it comes down

to qi stagnation, where the rising and spreading function of the liver fails

and everything sinks and stagnates. This excerpt from a description of mu

xiang kind of gets at what's going on...

 

清‧黃宮繡纂‧‧本è‰æ±‚真: " 木香〔芳è‰ã€•

｛醦è‚醒脾，泄滯和胃ï½

木香〔耑入è‚脾〕味辛而苦，下氣寬中，為三焦氣分è¦è—¥ã€‚ç„\

¶ä¸‰ç„¦å‰‡åˆä»¥ä¸­ç‚ºè¦ï¼Œæ•…凡脾胃虛寒å‡æ»¯è€Œè¦‹å瀉åœé£Ÿï¼Œè‚è™›å\

¯’入而見氣鬱氣逆，æœæ­¤è¾›é¦™å‘³è‹¦ï¼Œå‰‡èƒ½ä¸‹æ°£è€Œå¯¬ä¸­çŸ£ï¼›ä¸­å¯¬\

則上下皆通，是以號為三焦宣滯è¦åŠ‘。 "

Qing, Huang Gongxiu, Bencaoqiuzhen: Mu Xiang (AKA Fang Cao) Astringe[?] the

liver and awaken the spleen, drains stagnation and harmonizes the stomach,

enters the liver and spleen. Flavor is acrid and bitter. Descends qi and

loosens the center, it is an important herb for separating the qi of the san

jiao. [next segment is a little unsure, I think it means] Although [this

reference says] san jiao it is important that one [think in terms of] middle

[burner], thus ordinarily the spleen and stomach when vacuous and cold

become sluggish and stagnant and one sees vomiting diarrhea and indigestion,

[with] liver vacuity cold entering one sees qi stagnation and rebellion,

take this substance with acrid fragrance and bitter flavor, then one is able

to descend qi and relax the center, when the center is relaxed then things

moving upwards and downwards are all free flowing, that is why one can say

it effects stagantion of [all three parts of the] san jiao.

 

....so when liver isn't rising what is normally sent upwards is muddled in

the middle burner, and leads to a mixed pattern of vacuity and stagnation,

and in some contexts could be considered analogous to liver spleen

disharmony with an emphasis on the qi vacuity, as opposed to the liver

stagnation. In that context moving qi and transforming dampness may effect

temporary change, without supplementing the qi and yang the problem will

reemerge when treatment is discontinued. The obvious problem being

supplementation into dampness and qi stagnation is problematic.

 

I don't imagine this is a comprehensive treatment of the topic, but it might

start a discussion. I'm going to translate the rest of that article and see

if there's anything else that looks neat...

 

Par Scott

 

 

 

 

 

-

" " <johnkokko

<Chinese Medicine >

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:29 AM

LV yang deficiency

 

 

> Hi all,

>

> Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

>

> I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

> and a bit in 5E,

> either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

> not with their definition or practice.

>

> Thank you in advance for the teachings.

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding

> of

> a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

[Guest guest]

Qin Bo-Wei says that signs of Liver yang deficiency are : ¡°Intimidation,

headache, numbness, lack of warmth in the extremities¡± another place he

says, ¡°Lassitude, inability to work, grief and timidity, deep, fine, and

slow pulse¡± Medicinals recommended are: wu zhu yu, rou gui, yin yang huo,

and formulas like Jiao Ai Tang.

 

 

 

Hope this is of some help,

 

 

 

×£´ó¼ÒÐÂÄê¿ìÀÖ!

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of john

kokko

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:30 AM

Chinese Medicine

LV yang deficiency

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

 

I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

and a bit in 5E,

either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

not with their definition or practice.

 

Thank you in advance for the teachings.

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be simply liver blood xu, with the

additional signs of cold, but without the digestive disorders consistant with

spleen yang xu as well as the low back pain consistant with kidney yang xu.

 

wrote: Qin Bo-Wei says

that signs of Liver yang deficiency are : ¡°Intimidation,

headache, numbness, lack of warmth in the extremities¡± another place he

says, ¡°Lassitude, inability to work, grief and timidity, deep, fine, and

slow pulse¡± Medicinals recommended are: wu zhu yu, rou gui, yin yang huo,

and formulas like Jiao Ai Tang.

 

Hope this is of some help,

 

×£´ó¼ÒÐÂÄê¿ìÀÖ!

 

-

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of john

kokko

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:30 AM

Chinese Medicine

LV yang deficiency

 

Hi all,

 

Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

 

I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

and a bit in 5E,

either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

not with their definition or practice.

 

Thank you in advance for the teachings.

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think one of the key factors is the timidity relating to liver/gallbladder

emotional states. Again, I think this is why there aren't more TX plans for

this disorder, it overlaps with other things too much for easy or clear

diagnosis.

 

Par

-

" yehuda frischman " <

<Chinese Medicine >

Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:37 AM

RE: LV yang deficiency

 

 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be simply liver blood xu, with the

additional signs of cold, but without the digestive disorders consistant

with spleen yang xu as well as the low back pain consistant with kidney yang

xu.

 

wrote: Qin Bo-Wei

says that signs of Liver yang deficiency are : ¡°Intimidation,

headache, numbness, lack of warmth in the extremities¡± another place he

says, ¡°Lassitude, inability to work, grief and timidity, deep, fine, and

slow pulse¡± Medicinals recommended are: wu zhu yu, rou gui, yin yang huo,

and formulas like Jiao Ai Tang.

 

Hope this is of some help,

 

×£´ó¼ÒÐÂÄê¿ìÀÖ!

 

-

 

_____

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of john

kokko

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:30 AM

Chinese Medicine

LV yang deficiency

 

Hi all,

 

Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

 

I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

and a bit in 5E,

either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

not with their definition or practice.

 

Thank you in advance for the teachings.

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the classical quotes:

 

So, just paraphrasing,

 

LV yang def./ vacuity is characterized by :

possible cold symptoms, maybe heat if LV yin def. also,

possible blood deficiency contributing to weakness/ tightness/ contracture

of tendons / sinews (wood)

 

and defined by the inclusion of the former along with:

some form of LV qi stagnation (Qi not flowing correctly, because of vacuous

LV yang function)

and timidity/ intimidation (defined as :lacking courage, determination)

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/timid

timid and in-timid-ation have the same root.

 

Leon Hammer writes that the personality type of the LV yang def. pattern is:

" passive-aggressive "

There is a " phobia against direct assertion or aggression " .

 

" Superficially the dilemma of the Liver Yin Excess and Liver Yang Deficient

persons may see similar. Whereas both have a problem with assertion, the

Liver yang deficient person is being inhibited from assertion, while the

Liver Yin Excess person has no desire to be aggressive to begin with. The

former condition comes from life, the latter from constitution. " pg. 162

(Dragon Rises, 1st edition 1990)

 

Hammer writes: " If there is one category of excess or deficiency that I have

encountered most often in my practice, in my life, and in myself, it is

passive-aggressive Liver Yang Deficiency. " (pg. 166)

 

To compare LV yang deficiency with LV yang excess:

as LV yang deficiency may manifest with " passive-aggressive " personalities,

LV yang excess shows up as someone being " unremittingly aggressive " (pg.

168)

 

However, Hammer does not write about the somatic signs/symptoms involved

with this pattern in this book.

 

Can there be discussion about the distinctions between the:

LV yang deficiency pattern

and GB/HT qi deficiency pattern ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/22/07, Par Scott <parufus wrote:

>

> I think one of the key factors is the timidity relating to

> liver/gallbladder

> emotional states. Again, I think this is why there aren't more TX plans

> for

> this disorder, it overlaps with other things too much for easy or clear

> diagnosis.

>

> Par

> -

> " yehuda frischman " < <%40>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:37 AM

> RE: LV yang deficiency

>

> Tell me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be simply liver blood xu, with the

>

> additional signs of cold, but without the digestive disorders consistant

> with spleen yang xu as well as the low back pain consistant with kidney

> yang

> xu.

>

>

<<%40Chinese Medicine>>

> wrote: Qin Bo-Wei

> says that signs of Liver yang deficiency are : " Intimidation,

> headache, numbness, lack of warmth in the extremities " another place he

> says, " Lassitude, inability to work, grief and timidity, deep, fine, and

> slow pulse " Medicinals recommended are: wu zhu yu, rou gui, yin yang huo,

> and formulas like Jiao Ai Tang.

>

> Hope this is of some help,

>

> ×£´ó¼ÒÐÂÄê¿ìÀÖ!

>

> -

>

> _____

>

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

>

[Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\

e%40>]

> On Behalf Of john

> kokko

> Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:30 AM

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> LV yang deficiency

>

> Hi all,

>

> Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

>

> I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

> and a bit in 5E,

> either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this pattern,

> not with their definition or practice.

>

> Thank you in advance for the teachings.

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding

> of

> a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear colleague,

Liver Yang deficiency is characterized by possible cold symptoms?

Possible blood deficiency? Weakness , tightness , or contracture of

tendons?

 

Liver Yang deficiency is Liver Qi deficiency plus cold symptoms is a

must, not possible. If there is no cold symptoms or slow pulse, then

it is just Liver Qi deficiency. Please do not be confused. Any

deficiency will cause weakness, tiredness, sluggishness.

Maybe heat if Liver Yin deficiency ? Please note! If yang is

deficiency there is no heat, no chemical reaction, all molecules or

atoms are slowed down depending upon how severe Yang deficient. In

this case, even though if there is Yin deficiency, there will be no

heat symptoms, but there might show some dryness, cracking tongue or

skin ( blood deficiency ).

If you are boiling a pot of water ( yin ), the flame ( Yang

deficience ) is too small, then the water will not be boiled and there

will be no heat in the water, not even warm.

Now if the flame ( Yang deficiency ) is also too small, there is much

less water in the pot, the water is still not getting warm ( heat

symptoms ). This is real ! Because the pot is big and thick. Please think!

Tightness and contracture of tendons ???? Tightness means there is a

pull, a pull of fibers, of muscles, of tendons ? Is this pull is a

form of gravity? Because of lacking of Qi in the vessels, muscles and

tendons they are not nourishing and not functioning properly. Blood in

them is pulled away and down by gravity? There is less blood in the

vessels, tendons, muscles… caused them to get dryer, less nutrient? So

there is no force of resilience in them and we feel muscles, vessels,

tendons pull?

Contracture ??? Is that because of Blood deficiency, the muscles,

tendons, or fibers getting dryer and they can not expand , they

collapsed and feel like contracture?

Think about a rag. Soak it in water. It expands and it feels soft.

Twist it water will be squeezed and comes out. It get dryer and dryer.

Does it look like it is contracted?

Timid? Because there is no energy to cope or face the challenge. This

is not blood deficiency but the Qi " even though if it is Qi and Blood

def " . Qi is the key!

 

ANY HOW , THIS IS JUST AN OPINION AND BASED ON THE PHRASE ABOVE.

I am not here to diagnose the problem, but sharing a true vision, a

wider view and more precise approach if I am not making a mistake. If

the above is not clear, how can we have a treatment plans based on

herbs and acupuncture points?

 

Sincerely,

Nam Nguyen

[Guest guest]

Par,

Here is a quote from an upcoming translation of a Chinese text,

" Pathomechanisms of the Liver " , by Yan Shi-lin and Li Zheng-hua, to

be published by Paradigm Press:

 

" The unihibited orderly reaching of the qi dynamic and the upbearing

and warming functions of qi are all related to the liver's yang qi.

Liver yang vacuity can have different causes: If liver qi is

depressed for a long time, yang qi is worn and damaged as a

consequence. Alternatively, weak health in old age can deplete the

root of true yang and this can spread to liver yang. Or a direct

strike by a cold evil, or the passage and transmutation of diseases

from other viscera and bowels, or lack of/or inappropriate treatment

can damage liver yang. All of these can equally form the

pathomechanism of liver yang vacuity. "

 

In this text, there are several patterns associated with liver

yang vacuity, including " impaired warming (of the liver) " , liver yang

fall, and dual liver-stomach yang fall as well.

 

 

On Feb 22, 2007, at 6:25 AM, Par Scott wrote:

 

> I think one of the key factors is the timidity relating to liver/

> gallbladder

> emotional states. Again, I think this is why there aren't more TX

> plans for

> this disorder, it overlaps with other things too much for easy or

> clear

> diagnosis.

>

> Par

> -

> " yehuda frischman " <

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:37 AM

> RE: LV yang deficiency

>

> Tell me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be simply liver blood xu,

> with the

> additional signs of cold, but without the digestive disorders

> consistant

> with spleen yang xu as well as the low back pain consistant with

> kidney yang

> xu.

>

> wrote: Qin Bo-Wei

> says that signs of Liver yang deficiency are : ¡°Intimidation,

> headache, numbness, lack of warmth in the extremities¡± another

> place he

> says, ¡°Lassitude, inability to work, grief and timidity, deep,

> fine, and

> slow pulse¡± Medicinals recommended are: wu zhu yu, rou gui, yin

> yang huo,

> and formulas like Jiao Ai Tang.

>

> Hope this is of some help,

>

> ×£´ó¼ÒÐÂÄê¿ìÀÖ!

>

> -

>

> _____

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> john

> kokko

> Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:30 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> LV yang deficiency

>

> Hi all,

>

> Could there be some explanation about the LV yang deficiency pattern?

>

> I've seen this only in the context of Ikeda Masakazu's work

> and a bit in 5E,

> either with which I'm only familiar with their inclusion of this

> pattern,

> not with their definition or practice.

>

> Thank you in advance for the teachings.

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> understanding of

> a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

>

[Guest guest]

Volker Scheid's book -- in Contemporary China:

Plurality and Synthesis -- includes a discussion of this issue (pp.

187-190).

 

He points out that the TCM textbook selection of Liver patterns has

been determined by doctors from lineages which deemphasize Liver

qi/yang xu patterns. And " Because most students learn in order to pass

exams, not a single undergraduate or postgraduate student I spoke with

(admittedly not a representative sample) knew of liver qi or yang

depletion patterns. "

 

On the other hand, he cites schools of thought and authors who

delineate a range of such patterns. e.g. 19th Century authorities Tang

Zonghai and Zhang Xichun. And modern doctors (Qin Bowei and Pu Fuzhou)

who use these patterns and write about them. Scheid also observed use

of these patterns in practice. One professor Yang Weiyi (Beijing Univ)

and others have published and argued for inclusion of these patterns

in the national curriculum, with some success. But they haven't gotten

it into the textbooks as yet.

 

Scheid also discusses earlier history, including the thesis from Li

Zhongzi (1588-1655) that supplementing the liver leads to " an

unbalanced exaggeration of the liver's yang functions " . But he further

comments that " [t]his notion runs counter to therapeutic formulas

contained in some of the most ancient classics, which explicitly speak

of supplementing liver depletion patterns. " (A footnote cites passages

in the suwen, lingshu and other canons).

 

Scheid gives a lot more details, historical context and citations.

 

Clinically I've certainly seen a lot of liver function taxed in the

qi/yang sense, and find warming these effective (e.g. with herbs).

I've also seen and treated what I consider lung blood xu, and other

things not learned from the textbooks. I don't believe Chinese

medicine can be constrained to definitive, exclusive dictums. It's

more a process of observing and reasoning. Given a sense of this,

anything (beyond the current dogma) is possible.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chris,

Thanks for this reference. Both in this text and in his JCM

article on menopause, Volker has brought to stage front and center

the issue of editing Chinese medicine in the modern Chinese (and by

extension, English language) textbooks . I think it is important

whenever we discuss issues such as liver yang that we look as much as

possible to source materials and recognize the political and economic

forces that lead to the biases mentioned in your post and in Volker's

text. While there may be many different points of view on Chinese

medicine and specifically pattern differentiation, many of us in the

West (and in China) do not have access to these alternative views,

and then what we learn and apply becomes more limited and potentially

dogmatic. It doesn't necessarily help us in the West to have pre-

edited Chinese language textbooks that leave out essential patterns

and pathomechanisms.

 

 

On Feb 23, 2007, at 1:46 AM, chris_macie wrote:

 

> Volker Scheid's book -- in Contemporary China:

> Plurality and Synthesis -- includes a discussion of this issue (pp.

> 187-190).

>

> He points out that the TCM textbook selection of Liver patterns has

> been determined by doctors from lineages which deemphasize Liver

> qi/yang xu patterns. And " Because most students learn in order to pass

> exams, not a single undergraduate or postgraduate student I spoke with

> (admittedly not a representative sample) knew of liver qi or yang

> depletion patterns. "

>

> On the other hand, he cites schools of thought and authors who

> delineate a range of such patterns. e.g. 19th Century authorities Tang

> Zonghai and Zhang Xichun. And modern doctors (Qin Bowei and Pu Fuzhou)

> who use these patterns and write about them. Scheid also observed use

> of these patterns in practice. One professor Yang Weiyi (Beijing Univ)

> and others have published and argued for inclusion of these patterns

> in the national curriculum, with some success. But they haven't gotten

> it into the textbooks as yet.

>

> Scheid also discusses earlier history, including the thesis from Li

> Zhongzi (1588-1655) that supplementing the liver leads to " an

> unbalanced exaggeration of the liver's yang functions " . But he further

> comments that " [t]his notion runs counter to therapeutic formulas

> contained in some of the most ancient classics, which explicitly speak

> of supplementing liver depletion patterns. " (A footnote cites passages

> in the suwen, lingshu and other canons).

>

> Scheid gives a lot more details, historical context and citations.

>

> Clinically I've certainly seen a lot of liver function taxed in the

> qi/yang sense, and find warming these effective (e.g. with herbs).

> I've also seen and treated what I consider lung blood xu, and other

> things not learned from the textbooks. I don't believe Chinese

> medicine can be constrained to definitive, exclusive dictums. It's

> more a process of observing and reasoning. Given a sense of this,

> anything (beyond the current dogma) is possible.

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:02:00 0800, " " <zrosenbe wrote:

>>…many of us in the West (and in China) do not

have access to these alternative views…

 

As this discussion hints, and the fact that

several people here can refer to specific,

well-documented viewpoints, is encouraging.

 

BTW Robert Damon wrote an article in the PCOM

journal/newsletter a couple of years ago, which I

seem to recall (the actual article is buried

somewhere around here) translated some material

relating to this topic liver xu. That, and the

nature of the discussion I noted with particular

interest namely, one commentator's

interpretation and elucidation of earlier

sources, as if in dialog with them. The article

by Marta Hanson (Robust Northerners, delicate

Southerners…, in E. Hsu's " Innovation… " ) also

exemplified this kind of dialog. Where both

proponents and critics of a given issue

demonstrated an understanding of more ancient

sources, and even of each other's positions, in

the course of arguing divergent interpretations.

 

The encouragement I sense (above) relates to our

gradual approach to that level of discourse. Carrying on a tradition.

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/698 - Release 2/23/2007 4:39

AM

[Guest guest]

Chris, you make mention of Lung Blood xu as a pattern that you diagnose and

treat.

Could you elaborate on the image and protocol for this?

 

Thanks,

k.

 

On 2/23/07, chris_macie < wrote:

>

> Volker Scheid's book -- in Contemporary China:

> Plurality and Synthesis -- includes a discussion of this issue (pp.

> 187-190).

>

> He points out that the TCM textbook selection of Liver patterns has

> been determined by doctors from lineages which deemphasize Liver

> qi/yang xu patterns. And " Because most students learn in order to pass

> exams, not a single undergraduate or postgraduate student I spoke with

> (admittedly not a representative sample) knew of liver qi or yang

> depletion patterns. "

>

> On the other hand, he cites schools of thought and authors who

> delineate a range of such patterns. e.g. 19th Century authorities Tang

> Zonghai and Zhang Xichun. And modern doctors (Qin Bowei and Pu Fuzhou)

> who use these patterns and write about them. Scheid also observed use

> of these patterns in practice. One professor Yang Weiyi (Beijing Univ)

> and others have published and argued for inclusion of these patterns

> in the national curriculum, with some success. But they haven't gotten

> it into the textbooks as yet.

>

> Scheid also discusses earlier history, including the thesis from Li

> Zhongzi (1588-1655) that supplementing the liver leads to " an

> unbalanced exaggeration of the liver's yang functions " . But he further

> comments that " [t]his notion runs counter to therapeutic formulas

> contained in some of the most ancient classics, which explicitly speak

> of supplementing liver depletion patterns. " (A footnote cites passages

> in the suwen, lingshu and other canons).

>

> Scheid gives a lot more details, historical context and citations.

>

> Clinically I've certainly seen a lot of liver function taxed in the

> qi/yang sense, and find warming these effective (e.g. with herbs).

> I've also seen and treated what I consider lung blood xu, and other

> things not learned from the textbooks. I don't believe Chinese

> medicine can be constrained to definitive, exclusive dictums. It's

> more a process of observing and reasoning. Given a sense of this,

> anything (beyond the current dogma) is possible.

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti