need advice (on identity)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/20/07 7:55:17 AM, lizzzrd writes:

 

 

> Whatever the reason, I believe it's a vital part of our job to gently hold

> up a mirror for them.   With patients like these, I am always looking for a

> way to help them uncover the core belief they hold about themselves and their

> health.

>

 

One of my great teachers (in the movement/bodywork realm) would always say

that she preferred working with babies and small children to working with

adults. When asked why, she said, " because children can change

immediately...with

adults you are dealing with their identity. " She also said, " The perceptions

are the last to change. "

 

So yes, to help some of our patients who seem " fixed " in their identities as

" sick, " we must find the skillfulness, patience and compassion to penetrate

through the self-perceptions that keep them from being able to heal. To heap

more negative thoughts on them (they don't want to change, they like being

sick...etc, etc) is to actually participate in further hardening that which is

reluctant to change.

 

I'm not saying it is always easy, but I think we must practice " seeing

through " to some positive core of the person. And yes, when the moment is

right,

" holding the mirror up " to show them how their beliefs are limiting their

ability to heal.

 

Every time I hear these " blame the patient " complaints (and I heard a lot of

it in school), I realize there is not a depth of understanding of how

experience builds the personality, and how the 'personality' is held in place by

the

perceptions, which have also been formed by experience. To change someone's

perceptions, we have to give them a new experience, and also help them to

'sense and feel' the 'newness' of it. And to take it a step further, not just

give a new experience, but witness the impact and reverberations of the

experience so that the patient can begin to " own " it and make it a part of their

identity. Then they will be able to change or transform.

 

 

--RoseAnne S.

L. Ac. NYC

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/20/07 1:12:40 PM, anne.crowley writes:

 

 

> RoseAnne:  I agree that we should not heap extra negativity on them.  Your

> point is well taken.  I was merely discussing this as a healer who can become

> frustrated when people leave or do sabbotaging behavior, sometimes to the

> point of blaming the practitioner.  It was really a conversation to help us as

> healers go through, work through this for ourselves and ultimately our

> patients.

>

>

 

Anne,

I understand the frustration. And I'm sure you are a sensitive practitioner

who is helping a lot of people. I didn't mean to take away from that with

what I wrote.

 

This is such an important issue and one I wanted to speak to. I think if we

can start to understand more about the roots of the patient's self-sabotaging

behavior, we can see it for something other than a character flaw (not saying

you see it as such, but this is a notion I've heard quite a bit from TCM

students and even from practitioners.)

 

I mentioned my teacher's comment about the difference between working with

small children and working with adults because it highlights what can be

difficult about working with adults. I am not saying (and she wasn't saying)

that

we should give up on adults. The point I'm trying to get across is to

acknowldege that real change can challenge the fundamental construct of

identity, and

that there are factors of psychological and physical development that work

against this very dismantling of identity. The patient who undertakes this

kind

of 'identity-changing' work needs a lot of support. And they need a

practitioner who understands something about the process and what will be

required

for all parties. That said, it's also appropriate to refer out, even to set

boundaries with patients that could mean one doesn't treat them at all. I

respect those decisions.

 

My comments are really made in the sense of addressing a question that is

ongoing on this group: how can TCM education be improved? For me, the

understanding of patient psychological processes was not well-addressed in

school,

and I think we can do better.

 

--RoseAnne

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Comments below "

 

Anne

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

ra6151

>

> In a message dated 2/20/07 7:55:17 AM, lizzzrd writes:

>

>

> > Whatever the reason, I believe it's a vital part of our job to gently hold

> > up a mirror for them. With patients like these, I am always looking for a

> > way to help them uncover the core belief they hold about themselves and

their

> > health.

> >

>

> One of my great teachers (in the movement/bodywork realm) would always say

> that she preferred working with babies and small children to working with

> adults. When asked why, she said, " because children can change

> immediately...with

> adults you are dealing with their identity. " She also said, " The perceptions

> are the last to change. "

 

 

RoseAnn: I have always preferred working with adults for this very reason. I

don't want to give up on them. Children are much easier to change, but adults

affect children and other adults. They are my preferred group to work with.

 

>

> So yes, to help some of our patients who seem " fixed " in their identities as

> " sick, " we must find the skillfulness, patience and compassion to penetrate

> through the self-perceptions that keep them from being able to heal. To heap

> more negative thoughts on them (they don't want to change, they like being

> sick...etc, etc) is to actually participate in further hardening that which is

> reluctant to change.

 

RoseAnne: I agree that we should not heap extra negativity on them. Your point

is well taken. I was merely discussing this as a healer who can become

frustrated when people leave or do sabbotaging behavior, sometimes to the point

of blaming the practitioner. It was really a conversation to help us as healers

go through, work through this for ourselves and ultimately our patients.

 

 

>

> I'm not saying it is always easy, but I think we must practice " seeing

> through " to some positive core of the person.

 

RoseAnne: I agree, always looking for the positive in them. Reminding them of

it also.

 

And yes, when the moment is

> right,

> " holding the mirror up " to show them how their beliefs are limiting their

> ability to heal.

>

 

> --RoseAnne S.

> L. Ac. NYC

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Surely the fact that they are resisting our efforts to help them get well is a

symptom of their sickness and requires us to stick with them, be encouraging and

accept that this is where they are at this time. People can only move on as

quickly as they are able.

 

Angela

 

ra6151 wrote:

 

In a message dated 2/20/07 1:12:40 PM, anne.crowley writes:

 

> RoseAnne: I agree that we should not heap extra negativity on them. Your

> point is well taken. I was merely discussing this as a healer who can become

> frustrated when people leave or do sabbotaging behavior, sometimes to the

> point of blaming the practitioner. It was really a conversation to help us as

> healers go through, work through this for ourselves and ultimately our

> patients.

>

>

 

Anne,

I understand the frustration. And I'm sure you are a sensitive practitioner

who is helping a lot of people. I didn't mean to take away from that with

what I wrote.

 

This is such an important issue and one I wanted to speak to. I think if we

can start to understand more about the roots of the patient's self-sabotaging

behavior, we can see it for something other than a character flaw (not saying

you see it as such, but this is a notion I've heard quite a bit from TCM

students and even from practitioners.)

 

I mentioned my teacher's comment about the difference between working with

small children and working with adults because it highlights what can be

difficult about working with adults. I am not saying (and she wasn't saying)

that

we should give up on adults. The point I'm trying to get across is to

acknowldege that real change can challenge the fundamental construct of

identity, and

that there are factors of psychological and physical development that work

against this very dismantling of identity. The patient who undertakes this kind

of 'identity-changing' work needs a lot of support. And they need a

practitioner who understands something about the process and what will be

required

for all parties. That said, it's also appropriate to refer out, even to set

boundaries with patients that could mean one doesn't treat them at all. I

respect those decisions.

 

My comments are really made in the sense of addressing a question that is

ongoing on this group: how can TCM education be improved? For me, the

understanding of patient psychological processes was not well-addressed in

school,

and I think we can do better.

 

--RoseAnne

 

**************************************

Check out free AOL at

http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free safety

and

security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free

AOL Mail and much more.