Demons Treatment

[Guest guest]

Hi Everybody!

 

Reading the list messages of the last couple weeks (being overwhelmed with

retirement, but that is another issue) I come upon a message on the RSD

thread mentioning " Demons Treatment " . That is a new and different concept to

me.

 

That said, I may have some demons myself due to several car accidents and

smaller traumas. It all seems to be getting worse, reminiscent of " traumatic

fibromyalgia " , and my health was a major factor leading to my decision to

retire.

 

Can we discuss demons for a while?

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

Pete, on this subject.

I have a friend who has a history of bad car accidents.

He had two accidents within a month, which forced him to move from his point

of residency completely.

The accidents were not small ones, and he was forced to have hip-replacement

surgery afterwards.

 

Also, he told me that about 10 years ago, he starting getting traffic

tickets for going through stop signs and red-lights. That year he racked up

7!

What did he do? He went up to an Indian reservation, which he has an

affiliation to,

got his car smudged and was blessed himself.

Since then, 10 years, he hasn't had any traffic tickets at all.

 

The two accidents within a month forced him to move away from his old home

and start a new life.

At the same time, he was going through the breakup of a relationship.

I've seen this many times, people get car accidents coinciding with personal

- relational issues.

Often times, the places that they get hurt are the areas where there is an

energetic disturbance or vacuity.

and I've also noticed that our cars and technology and pets are extensions

of ourselves

(mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually)

When your tires are out of alignment, often times there are weakness and

strain in your own limbs.

All of a sudden, the battery goes out, something can be wrong with your

nervous system or kidneys.

I've seen this many times with myself and others. We create our realities

and our qi ripples out to everything we touch and think about. I know many

people who spend at least 2 hours/day in their car.

 

So, according to my friend's experience,

these kinds of demons can be burned by letting go.

Either by smudging and getting blessed by an authentic person who does such

things,

(or something similar. I know that prayer alone can do miracles)

or sometimes moving away from the geographic energetic vortex which one's

personal qi is not vibrating smoothly with (much like living in a tsunami or

torrent of chaotic energy),

which includes the people who share in that energetic space

(people who eat from the land and breath the qi of a place).

 

Often, it's about timing your departure.

There's an interesting website www.astro.com

If you believe in astrology, (which is one of the major branches/stem of

Chinese medicine)

you'll find this interesting. It's free to log-on and after you put in your

birth info, click on " travel " .

It will show you a world map, which shows the personal points and lines of

influence for you around the world. I've found this to be very accurate.

For instance, my Jupiter (wood) line (prosper-line) runs through the East

coast of the Big Island, Hawaii.

Ever since I was a child, I wanted to live there, growing up in Colorado.

In my mid twenties, I moved out there and the place has been a " power spot "

(using Castandeda's term) ever since. It's a place that is inviting and

easy to thrive. For others, the Island was not so friendly!

I'm sure you've seen this alot where-ever you live, especially in points of

concentrated " mojo " .

 

This is all in the realm of feng-shui and an expert in that field can

deflect and exorcise some demons too.

 

Otherwise, I'd like to hear about clinical methods to treat for " demons " ,

and to talk about what this phenomenon really is or can be.. for some

people.

 

Thanks.

k.

 

On 2/4/07, Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote:

>

> Hi Everybody!

>

> Reading the list messages of the last couple weeks (being overwhelmed with

>

> retirement, but that is another issue) I come upon a message on the RSD

> thread mentioning " Demons Treatment " . That is a new and different concept

> to

> me.

>

> That said, I may have some demons myself due to several car accidents and

> smaller traumas. It all seems to be getting worse, reminiscent of

> " traumatic

> fibromyalgia " , and my health was a major factor leading to my decision to

> retire.

>

> Can we discuss demons for a while?

> --

> Regards,

>

> Pete

> http://www.pete-theisen.com/

>

>

 

 

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Is this the same as the External and Internal Dragons treatment where

the patients personal dragons are mobilized to help expel emotions/

trauma/energy trapped either internally or externally? If so, I've

been looking into this myself. Does anyone have a good

recommendation for a book containing some info on this type of

treatment? I did recently use an external dragon treatment on a

patient who is actively healing from a past of childhood sexual abuse

and it was very powerful. The patient became incredibly hot and

released a lot of energy (warmed the room right up!). She went

through many emotions on the table and I had to stay with her for the

entire treatment, but afterwards she said she felt 'energized'

'happy' and, yes, like I've read it described, " like a weight was

taken off my shoulders " .

 

Anyone have any experience with these types of treatments they'd like

to share?

 

Thanks,

Rebekah Sitty, L.Ac.

 

-------------------

Rebekah Sitty, MS, L.Ac., CMT

403 Precita Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

415-550-1410

-------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Rebekah, Lonny Jarrett's " The clinical practice of Chinese medicine " has

some good information about Internal and External dragon treatments.

 

My acupuncturist did an Internal Dragon treatment on me last fall. It

was a series of three treatments spaced every other day. It was

amazingly powerful, and made me a believer in their clinical usefulness.

While my condition wasn't as serious as someone healing from sexual

abuse, it was deeply moving and energizing.

 

One side note. When I talk to my patients about " possession " in the

context of CM, I explain that possessions are not due to some

supernatural being occupying our mind or body. It is more like how our

own consciousness can become possessed by a thought or belief that does

not serve us. We are unable to let it go and it runs our lives. I

personally don't believe in demons or supernatural beings that can

influence us that way. It is all our own " stuff " .

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac.

Oasis Acupuncture

<http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

9832 N. Hayden Rd.

Suite 215

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Rebekah Sitty

Monday, February 05, 2007 9:18 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re:Demons Treatment

 

 

 

Is this the same as the External and Internal Dragons treatment where

the patients personal dragons are mobilized to help expel emotions/

trauma/energy trapped either internally or externally? If so, I've

been looking into this myself. Does anyone have a good

recommendation for a book containing some info on this type of

treatment? I did recently use an external dragon treatment on a

patient who is actively healing from a past of childhood sexual abuse

and it was very powerful. The patient became incredibly hot and

released a lot of energy (warmed the room right up!). She went

through many emotions on the table and I had to stay with her for the

entire treatment, but afterwards she said she felt 'energized'

'happy' and, yes, like I've read it described, " like a weight was

taken off my shoulders " .

 

Anyone have any experience with these types of treatments they'd like

to share?

 

Thanks,

Rebekah Sitty, L.Ac.

 

-------------------

Rebekah Sitty, MS, L.Ac., CMT

403 Precita Avenue

San Francisco, CA 94110

415-550-1410

-------------------

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Christopher!

 

This is interesting; it is all in how you look at it. Why can we not let " it "

go? How can " it " run our lives? Where is " it " ? What is " it " ? Beyond that, we're

already on the lower side of the " slippery slope " my friend. Recognising

" interpenetration " and " qi " as valid concepts, we have already opened the door

to the " supernatural " . After all, what is Qi Gong and external Qi Gong healing

but the worst kind of hand-waving mystically primitive pre-scientific

pseudo-medical babble? It is a very seductive idea that our " stuff " and our

consciousness (meaning our isolated brain in this example) perpetrates itself as

a supernatural entity, but really it's just neurons and electrical misfiring

(like dreams)...unfortunately that explanation does not fit the phenomena, or

the literature available on the phenomena.

On the flipside, this is not to say that each human being does not have their

dark side, replete with demons. Even the Dalai Lama has a dark side :

 

 

" I call the high and light aspects of my being spirit and the dark and heavy

aspects soul.

 

Soul is at home in the deep, shaded valleys. Heavy torpid flowers saturated with

black grow there. The rivers flow like warm syrup. [...]

 

Spirit is a land of high, white peaks and glittering jewel-like lakes and

flowers. Life is sparse and sounds travel great distances. [...] "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christopher:

 

 

 

 

 

One side note. When I talk to my patients about " possession " in the

 

context of CM, I explain that possessions are not due to some

 

supernatural being occupying our mind or body. It is more like how our

 

own consciousness can become possessed by a thought or belief that does

 

not serve us. We are unable to let it go and it runs our lives. I

 

personally don't believe in demons or supernatural beings that can

 

influence us that way. It is all our own " stuff " .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_________

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your

Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Two Dragons

One evening an old Zen Master told his students about a " Great

Battle " that goes on inside all Human Beings.

The wise man said, " The battle is between 2 " Dragons " … They are

battling for dominance inside us all.

One is Dark, it represents Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow,

regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority,

lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Light, it represents Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope,

serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity,

truth, compassion and faith. "

The students thought about it for a minute and then asked the Zen

Master: " Which Dragon wins? "

The old wise man simply replied, " The one you feed. "

 

 

Kelvin

www.1stdefense.info

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> Hi Christopher!

>

> This is interesting; it is all in how you look at it. Why can we

not let " it " go? How can " it " run our lives? Where is " it " ? What

is " it " ? Beyond that, we're already on the lower side of

the " slippery slope " my friend. Recognising " interpenetration "

and " qi " as valid concepts, we have already opened the door to

the " supernatural " . After all, what is Qi Gong and external Qi Gong

healing but the worst kind of hand-waving mystically primitive pre-

scientific pseudo-medical babble? It is a very seductive idea that

our " stuff " and our consciousness (meaning our isolated brain in this

example) perpetrates itself as a supernatural entity, but really it's

just neurons and electrical misfiring (like dreams)...unfortunately

that explanation does not fit the phenomena, or the literature

available on the phenomena.

> On the flipside, this is not to say that each human being does not

have their dark side, replete with demons. Even the Dalai Lama has a

dark side :

>

>

> " I call the high and light aspects of my being spirit and the dark

and heavy aspects soul.

>

> Soul is at home in the deep, shaded valleys. Heavy torpid flowers

saturated with black grow there. The rivers flow like warm syrup.

[...]

>

> Spirit is a land of high, white peaks and glittering jewel-like

lakes and flowers. Life is sparse and sounds travel great distances.

[...] "

>

>

>

>

>

Christopher:

>

>

>

>

>

> One side note. When I talk to my patients about " possession " in the

>

> context of CM, I explain that possessions are not due to some

>

> supernatural being occupying our mind or body. It is more like how

our

>

> own consciousness can become possessed by a thought or belief that

does

>

> not serve us. We are unable to let it go and it runs our lives. I

>

> personally don't believe in demons or supernatural beings that can

>

> influence us that way. It is all our own " stuff " .

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_________

> The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

address from your Internet provider.

http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like this Kelvin. Isn't it always true that the more we stay in our story and

buy into it (feeding some dragon), the more it hangs around.

 

I do like the demon treatment ID' s and ED's. I don't know exactly what we are

possessed by, our own energy, someone else's, our phantom of the opera. All I

know is it feels better for a lot of folks, including me, when I have that

treatment. ID's are suppose to be for more emotional possession and ED's more

physical. I never use the word possession with a patient. I liked someone's

description of how they talk to a patient. I usually ask, " Do you feel like

something has gotten a hold of you, and you can't shake it. " That says demons

to me. Also we should see clouded eyes. They get much brighter after this

treatment. I usually ask or do you just feel a little chaotic, like something

is off. If I get a yes to this and not the first question, I go for the AE

Agressive Energy treatment. Also I am assessing their energetic that day and

their answers are usually confirming. it.

 

Anne

 

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" acupuncturebeverlyhills " <acupuncturebeverlyhills

>

> Two Dragons

> One evening an old Zen Master told his students about a " Great

> Battle " that goes on inside all Human Beings.

> The wise man said, " The battle is between 2 " Dragons " … They are

> battling for dominance inside us all.

> One is Dark, it represents Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow,

> regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority,

> lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

> The other is Light, it represents Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope,

> serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity,

> truth, compassion and faith. "

> The students thought about it for a minute and then asked the Zen

> Master: " Which Dragon wins? "

> The old wise man simply replied, " The one you feed. "

>

>

> Kelvin

> www.1stdefense.info

>

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

> <subincor wrote:

> >

> > Hi Christopher!

> >

> > This is interesting; it is all in how you look at it. Why can we

> not let " it " go? How can " it " run our lives? Where is " it " ? What

> is " it " ? Beyond that, we're already on the lower side of

> the " slippery slope " my friend. Recognising " interpenetration "

> and " qi " as valid concepts, we have already opened the door to

> the " supernatural " . After all, what is Qi Gong and external Qi Gong

> healing but the worst kind of hand-waving mystically primitive pre-

> scientific pseudo-medical babble? It is a very seductive idea that

> our " stuff " and our consciousness (meaning our isolated brain in this

> example) perpetrates itself as a supernatural entity, but really it's

> just neurons and electrical misfiring (like dreams)...unfortunately

> that explanation does not fit the phenomena, or the literature

> available on the phenomena.

> > On the flipside, this is not to say that each human being does not

> have their dark side, replete with demons. Even the Dalai Lama has a

> dark side :

> >

> >

> > " I call the high and light aspects of my being spirit and the dark

> and heavy aspects soul.

> >

> > Soul is at home in the deep, shaded valleys. Heavy torpid flowers

> saturated with black grow there. The rivers flow like warm syrup.

> [...]

> >

> > Spirit is a land of high, white peaks and glittering jewel-like

> lakes and flowers. Life is sparse and sounds travel great distances.

> [...] "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Christopher:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > One side note. When I talk to my patients about " possession " in the

> >

> > context of CM, I explain that possessions are not due to some

> >

> > supernatural being occupying our mind or body. It is more like how

> our

> >

> > own consciousness can become possessed by a thought or belief that

> does

> >

> > not serve us. We are unable to let it go and it runs our lives. I

> >

> > personally don't believe in demons or supernatural beings that can

> >

> > influence us that way. It is all our own " stuff " .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _________

> > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

> address from your Internet provider.

> http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

For a more traditional CM inroad, Jeffery Yuen gave a half-day

workshop on the Ghost Points (sponsored by CAAOM and recorded for sale):

 

Tapes CAA94-005 (2 tape set) [@ConferenceRecording.com]

The Thirteen Ghost Points of Chinese Acupuncture

13 points first written about [not invented by him] by Sun SiMiao;

presented here as progression of psychological/neurological

symptomology, and as a path of spiritual cultivation for the practitioner.

 

I remember that interesting was the progression, and association with

various stages of disconnect with oneself (whether attributed to an

" entity " or otherwise) in terms of the particular acupuncture points

and their channel and zangfu relationships. Also he gives alternative

point names that Sun SuMiao (and maybe others in Daoist writings)

used for those points (some but not all of which are also in the

Wiseman, Ellis, et al book " Grasping the Wind " ), using them to

illustrate the relationships.

 

Then in October 2005, he gave a full day workshop in San Francisco on

" Contemporary Uses of Acupuncture for Possession " . (That was

sponsored by AUCM, so only available to attendees or students in its

programs.) Interesting was a detailed account of the relationships

between spirit, soul, etc,. i.e. Shen, Ling, Gui, and the Hun, Po,

etc., and from different historical perspectives. He advertised the

lecture in terms of relating " possession " to modern phenomena like

habits and addictions (as some here have taken it up), but actually

didn't get much into that in the talk. He also did another take on

the Ghost Points.

 

(PS more ideas started perculating on this topic, which I will try to

formulate tomorrow...)

 

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:34:26 +0000 (GMT), Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

>> After all, what is Qi Gong and external Qi Gong healing but the

worst kind of hand-waving mystically primitive pre-scientific

pseudo-medical babble?

 

QiGong is actually a 20th Century term, roughly equivalent to

" aerobics " , used to label a wide range of traditional practices

(which were originally named daoyin, yangsheng, xiushen, neigong,

shengong, etc.). And " medical qigong " grew out of a sort of prior

practice which was more secretive and shamanistic in nature (much as

Hugo depicts it, discounting his obvious bias), quite separate from

organized medicine. (For a detailed ethnographic discussion of this,

see Elizabeth Hsu's book " The Transmission of " , the

1st part " The secret transmission of knowledge and practice. " ) I, for

one, find it curious how this has found some degree of legitimacy

today in the medical establishment, including at places like UCLA,

and in some DOAM programs.

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thanks all for the zen and references to the twin dragon treatments.

 

Funny how the mythical/ mystical dragon is present in so many cultures and

is found to be sometimes benevolent and at other times malevolent. Until

recent years, dragons were hiding outside of pop culture, but now with the

last installment of the Harry Potter's series arriving, dragons are flying

into the minds of Americans at record speed. I've seen at least 5

mainstream dragon books pop up in the last few years, most notably,

" Dragonology " . Or maybe this is just an extension and rebirth of

the " dungeons and dragons " phenomenon of the 80s.

 

Some people have connected these dragons with our DNA, spiraling in double

helix fashion;

two strands like Jacob's ladder, composing life.

This is the constant dance between yin and yang; light and darkness.

 

For one, I believe that our DNA is alive and is intelligently conscious;

it goes back to the beginning; is the seed of this planet;

and may be likened to " the Joshua's tree " and the " tree of life " .

 

As far as demons go, often times, the ego's non-acceptance of the Dao,

can be a demon, invite demons or harbor these entities.

What ever way we look at it, these objects that obstruct our own

enlightenment

are burned off in the bardo by other 'compassionate' daemons.

In Tibetan buddhism, these 'hungry ghosts' become feed for fire.

 

At least in this life, in our 'hero's journey', we can face our demons, slay

our dragons

or at least... dance in harmony with them.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday 06 February 2007 3:57 am, wrote:

 

Hi Chris!

 

You do offer an interesting resource here. I think I mentioned on another

thread, but not here, that there are 10 bulging disks - I don't remember

which - have it on paper somewhere - but I do remember that they are

distributed throughout my spine. The chiro lady finds that virtually every

vertebra is out of alignment every visit.

 

The demon idea struck a chord because this seems to be getting worse rather

than better.

 

> For a more traditional CM inroad, Jeffery Yuen gave a half-day

> workshop on the Ghost Points (sponsored by CAAOM and recorded for sale):

>

> Tapes CAA94-005 (2 tape set) [@ConferenceRecording.com]

> The Thirteen Ghost Points of Chinese Acupuncture

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

:

(much as Hugo depicts it, discounting his obvious bias)

 

I know! I can't even control " them " (my biases) anymore! Anyone care enough to

give me an ED tx?

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

_________

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your

Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tue, 6 Feb 2007 07:02:49 0800, " " <johnkokko wrote:

 

(nice little essay, John)

 

>> For one, I believe that our DNA is alive and is intelligently

conscious; it goes back to the beginning; is the seed of this planet;

and may be likened to " the Joshua's tree " and the " tree of life " .

 

Apologies for sounding like a broken record (always citing Jeffery

Yuen), but he often characterizes the constitutional layer of CM

energetics the '8 extraordinary channels', the '7 curious organs'

( " curious " is the same Chinese character here as " extraordinary " ), and

the jing (i.e. including DNA) as being the " evolutionary " aspect of

human physiology. As in the topics discussed in anthropology, human

evolution is charted in terms of bone structure, cranial capacity,

social-cultural development (mind), etc., as well as, obviously in

today's world, genetic code.

 

" [A]live and … intelligently conscious " reminds me of the classical

term jingshen that is found all over the NeiJing. People give it a

wide range of meanings, but it's really not discussed much, in my

experience. (In modern medical Chinese, it's taken to mean simply the

" nervous system " .) I like to think of it as the quality of

proprioceptive aliveness (shen) that separates jing (living stuff)

from just inorganic stuff. We learn that qi is omnipresent rocks,

wind, sunlight, water, etc. have it. But jingshen (or sometimes

shenjing) is different.

 

An interesting classical Greek philosophical notion somewhat related

is that of " entelechy " , as a quality of livingness; etymologically,

having the goal (telos) within (en).

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 08:21 AM 2/6/2007, Phil wrote:

 

>... there are 10 bulging disks - I don't remember which - have it on

>paper somewhere - but I do remember that they are distributed

>throughout my spine. The chiro lady finds that virtually every

>vertebra is out of alignment every visit.

>

>The demon idea struck a chord because this seems to be getting worse

>rather than better.

 

I found my notes from the possession lecture, which I even

transcribed. It'll take some work, but there are aspects giving

overall rationale and guidelines for treatments, including

differential diagnostics, and a lot of material putting various

frameworks and terms into historical perspective (which Z'ev called for).

 

I will try to distil and present some of this, but it'll take a

couple of days. Also try to find things that might relate to some of

the information you've given.

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

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