Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he dived into a shallow pool when drunk). The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. He has asked me to do some research. Does anyone have experience or insight into this? Many thanks, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 George, Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. I have a patient who is also seeking a similar therapy in China, but it's a different hospital http://www.nrrfr.com/ The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than 1000 cases by now, with 2 to 3 thousand on waiting list. One might ask if there is any relevance to CM here? Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's happening is, Dr. Huang has been doing this for a few years with reasonably good success, yet, he has been criticized by western medical communities for unwilling to conduct formal research studies. Dr. Huang's augument is very similar to some of the CM community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not ethical to conduct a surgery to baseline the placebo effect. Mike L. acugeorge <acugeorge wrote: One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he dived into a shallow pool when drunk). The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. He has asked me to do some research. Does anyone have experience or insight into this? Many thanks, George Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 There are a lot of hospitals in China doing stem cell therapy. Most are doctors with international experience and have good success rates. There is also a hospital in Toronto Canada that does stem cell therapy. A friend's dad went there for cancer treatment and recovered from a rare form of bone cancer. --- Mike Liaw <mikeliaw wrote: > George, > > Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. > > I have a patient who is also seeking a similar > therapy in China, but it's a different hospital > > http://www.nrrfr.com/ > > The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than > 1000 cases by now, with 2 to 3 thousand on waiting > list. > > One might ask if there is any relevance to CM > here? > Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's > happening is, Dr. Huang has been doing this for a > few years with reasonably good success, yet, he has > been criticized by western medical communities for > unwilling to conduct formal research studies. Dr. > Huang's augument is very similar to some of the CM > community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not > ethical to conduct a surgery to baseline the placebo > effect. > > Mike L. > > > acugeorge <acugeorge wrote: > One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) > is considering stem cell > therapy for his son who is paralysed following > cervical trauma (he > dived into a shallow pool when drunk). > The company providing the cells in called Beike in > Shenzhen and the > hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 > hospital in Shenyang. > He has asked me to do some research. > Does anyone have experience or insight into this? > Many thanks, > George > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 > hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your > fit. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ______________________________\ ____ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 One of my patients went to Beijing to be treated by Dr Huang Hongyun. He has ALS, and though we thought that his condition had stabilized for some months it has gone downhill since. He is now almost completely paralyzed, he has no longer the power to lift his finger to control his electric wheelchair. He said the welcome and treatment in Beijing was very nice and would recommend it, even if it didn't help for him. My only problem with the treatment is that stem cells in China often come from fetuses that can be up to 8 months old in some cases. That is an ethical barrier for me, but of course I don't have a debilitating disease so who am I to judge? http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=455 http://www.stemcellschina.com/ Tom. ---- Mike Liaw 2/02/2007 17:53:42 Chinese Medicine Re: stem cell therapy George, Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. I have a patient who is also seeking a similar therapy in China, but it's a different hospital http://www.nrrfr.com/ The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than 1000 cases by now, with 2 to 3 thousand on waiting list. One might ask if there is any relevance to CM here? Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's happening is, Dr. Huang has been doing this for a few years with reasonably good success, yet, he has been criticized by western medical communities for unwilling to conduct formal research studies. Dr. Huang's augument is very similar to some of the CM community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not ethical to conduct a surgery to baseline the placebo effect. Mike L. acugeorge <acugeorge wrote: One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he dived into a shallow pool when drunk). The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. He has asked me to do some research. Does anyone have experience or insight into this? Many thanks, George Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Yes, i bet they give them a warm welcome! Non Chinese are keep in what's called the Foreign Department in Chinese hospitals. These departments are better looking and better kept than the standard wards for Chinese nationals. The hospital makes a lot of money from foreign patients and usually the top ranking doctors will run the department. That's the case in lesser grade hospitals like the one i saw at Xiyuan Hospital in Beijing. There are different grades of hospitals in China and Xiyuan is a lesser grade. If you go to a better one like ZhongRi in Beijing, every patient stays in plush rooms with TVs that are kept so clean. The standards there would put most hospitals in the UK to shame. I still remember at lunch time lots of waiters from local restaurants coming in with food for patients and family I spent some time in the gyne wards at a hospital in Beijing and was amazed by the amount of abortions going on. Some women in there mid to late twenties were already on their sixth abortion! The average if I remember was about 3 for a woman in their late twenties. They give them out like pain killers. So i'm not so sure about the lack of stem cells from foetus and them being 8 months old, they got a good and plentiful supply of them. That's one of the benefits of a one child policy! Regards Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , " Tom Verhaeghe " <tom.verhaeghe wrote: > > > One of my patients went to Beijing to be treated by Dr Huang Hongyun. He has > ALS, and though we thought that his condition had stabilized for some months > it has gone downhill since. He is now almost completely paralyzed, he has > no longer the power to lift his finger to control his electric wheelchair. > > He said the welcome and treatment in Beijing was very nice and would > recommend it, even if it didn't help for him. My only problem with the > treatment is that stem cells in China often come from fetuses that can be up > to 8 months old in some cases. That is an ethical barrier for me, but of > course I don't have a debilitating disease so who am I to judge? > > http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=455 > http://www.stemcellschina.com/ > > Tom. > > ---- > > Mike Liaw > 2/02/2007 17:53:42 > Chinese Medicine > Re: stem cell therapy > > George, > > Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. > > I have a patient who is also seeking a similar therapy in China, but it's a > different hospital > > http://www.nrrfr.com/ > > The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than 1000 cases by now, with 2 to > 3 thousand on waiting list. > > One might ask if there is any relevance to CM here? > Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's happening is, Dr. Huang has been > doing this for a few years with reasonably good success, yet, he has been > criticized by western medical communities for unwilling to conduct formal > research studies. Dr. Huang's augument is very similar to some of the CM > community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not ethical to conduct a > surgery to baseline the placebo effect. > > Mike L. > > acugeorge <acugeorge wrote: > One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell > therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he > dived into a shallow pool when drunk). > The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the > hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. > He has asked me to do some research. > Does anyone have experience or insight into this? > Many thanks, > George > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Interesting Attilio: The Chinese have apparently embraced the capitalist way - that is the plush hospital conditons for foreigners. On the abortion issue, don't they give out birth control regularly.? You would think with a one child policy that this would be standard. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " " <attiliodalberto > Yes, i bet they give them a warm welcome! Non Chinese are keep in > what's called the Foreign Department in Chinese hospitals. These > departments are better looking and better kept than the standard > wards for Chinese nationals. The hospital makes a lot of money from > foreign patients and usually the top ranking doctors will run the > department. That's the case in lesser grade hospitals like the one i > saw at Xiyuan Hospital in Beijing. > > There are different grades of hospitals in China and Xiyuan is a > lesser grade. If you go to a better one like ZhongRi in Beijing, > every patient stays in plush rooms with TVs that are kept so clean. > The standards there would put most hospitals in the UK to shame. I > still remember at lunch time lots of waiters from local restaurants > coming in with food for patients and family > > I spent some time in the gyne wards at a hospital in Beijing and was > amazed by the amount of abortions going on. Some women in there mid > to late twenties were already on their sixth abortion! The average if > I remember was about 3 for a woman in their late twenties. They give > them out like pain killers. So i'm not so sure about the lack of stem > cells from foetus and them being 8 months old, they got a good and > plentiful supply of them. That's one of the benefits of a one child > policy! > > Regards > > Attilio > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Tom Verhaeghe " > <tom.verhaeghe wrote: > > > > > > One of my patients went to Beijing to be treated by Dr Huang > Hongyun. He has > > ALS, and though we thought that his condition had stabilized for > some months > > it has gone downhill since. He is now almost completely paralyzed, > he has > > no longer the power to lift his finger to control his electric > wheelchair. > > > > He said the welcome and treatment in Beijing was very nice and would > > recommend it, even if it didn't help for him. My only problem with > the > > treatment is that stem cells in China often come from fetuses that > can be up > > to 8 months old in some cases. That is an ethical barrier for me, > but of > > course I don't have a debilitating disease so who am I to judge? > > > > http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=455 > > http://www.stemcellschina.com/ > > > > Tom. > > > > ---- > > > > Mike Liaw > > 2/02/2007 17:53:42 > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: stem cell therapy > > > > George, > > > > Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. > > > > I have a patient who is also seeking a similar therapy in China, > but it's a > > different hospital > > > > http://www.nrrfr.com/ > > > > The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than 1000 cases by now, > with 2 to > > 3 thousand on waiting list. > > > > One might ask if there is any relevance to CM here? > > Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's happening is, Dr. Huang > has been > > doing this for a few years with reasonably good success, yet, he > has been > > criticized by western medical communities for unwilling to conduct > formal > > research studies. Dr. Huang's augument is very similar to some of > the CM > > community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not ethical to > conduct a > > surgery to baseline the placebo effect. > > > > Mike L. > > > > acugeorge <acugeorge wrote: > > One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell > > therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he > > dived into a shallow pool when drunk). > > The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the > > hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. > > He has asked me to do some research. > > Does anyone have experience or insight into this? > > Many thanks, > > George > > > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hi Anne, I don't think China has embraced Capitalism, they invented it! It's just been dormant for the last 50 years. They seem to be very money driven. I remember once when I was at an A & E department, people were coming in, either by car or taxi. I remember one woman carrying her husband in and asking the doctor to look at him. The doctor just pointed to the end of the hall where you had to register and pay, then he will look at you. He'll then give you a prescription which you have to take to the pharmacy to pay and collect and bring back. Often, these doctors will over prescribe medication. Whether its because they are cautious, or wish to generate more revenue for the hospital or whether they work on a commission basis I don't know. It's normal to see one family member carrying to small bag loaded with cash. Yes, they do give out birth control devices a lot, but obviously not everyone is using it correctly. The gyne wards were very busy with women wanting abortions. Regards, Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , anne.crowley wrote: > > Interesting Attilio: > > The Chinese have apparently embraced the capitalist way - that is the plush hospital conditons for foreigners. > > On the abortion issue, don't they give out birth control regularly.? You would think with a one child policy that this would be standard. > > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > " " <attiliodalberto > > Yes, i bet they give them a warm welcome! Non Chinese are keep in > > what's called the Foreign Department in Chinese hospitals. These > > departments are better looking and better kept than the standard > > wards for Chinese nationals. The hospital makes a lot of money from > > foreign patients and usually the top ranking doctors will run the > > department. That's the case in lesser grade hospitals like the one i > > saw at Xiyuan Hospital in Beijing. > > > > There are different grades of hospitals in China and Xiyuan is a > > lesser grade. If you go to a better one like ZhongRi in Beijing, > > every patient stays in plush rooms with TVs that are kept so clean. > > The standards there would put most hospitals in the UK to shame. I > > still remember at lunch time lots of waiters from local restaurants > > coming in with food for patients and family > > > > I spent some time in the gyne wards at a hospital in Beijing and was > > amazed by the amount of abortions going on. Some women in there mid > > to late twenties were already on their sixth abortion! The average if > > I remember was about 3 for a woman in their late twenties. They give > > them out like pain killers. So i'm not so sure about the lack of stem > > cells from foetus and them being 8 months old, they got a good and > > plentiful supply of them. That's one of the benefits of a one child > > policy! > > > > Regards > > > > Attilio > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Tom Verhaeghe " > > <tom.verhaeghe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > One of my patients went to Beijing to be treated by Dr Huang > > Hongyun. He has > > > ALS, and though we thought that his condition had stabilized for > > some months > > > it has gone downhill since. He is now almost completely paralyzed, > > he has > > > no longer the power to lift his finger to control his electric > > wheelchair. > > > > > > He said the welcome and treatment in Beijing was very nice and would > > > recommend it, even if it didn't help for him. My only problem with > > the > > > treatment is that stem cells in China often come from fetuses that > > can be up > > > to 8 months old in some cases. That is an ethical barrier for me, > > but of > > > course I don't have a debilitating disease so who am I to judge? > > > > > > http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=455 > > > http://www.stemcellschina.com/ > > > > > > Tom. > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > Mike Liaw > > > 2/02/2007 17:53:42 > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Re: stem cell therapy > > > > > > George, > > > > > > Do you have their web site? I'd like to see that. > > > > > > I have a patient who is also seeking a similar therapy in China, > > but it's a > > > different hospital > > > > > > http://www.nrrfr.com/ > > > > > > The chief is Dr. Huang, who has done more than 1000 cases by now, > > with 2 to > > > 3 thousand on waiting list. > > > > > > One might ask if there is any relevance to CM here? > > > Well, yes, but it's a stretch...... What's happening is, Dr. Huang > > has been > > > doing this for a few years with reasonably good success, yet, he > > has been > > > criticized by western medical communities for unwilling to conduct > > formal > > > research studies. Dr. Huang's augument is very similar to some of > > the CM > > > community's arguments: 1) It " works. " 2) It's not ethical to > > conduct a > > > surgery to baseline the placebo effect. > > > > > > Mike L. > > > > > > acugeorge <acugeorge@> wrote: > > > One of my patients (who I treat with TCM) is considering stem cell > > > therapy for his son who is paralysed following cervical trauma (he > > > dived into a shallow pool when drunk). > > > The company providing the cells in called Beike in Shenzhen and the > > > hospital carrying out the procedure is the 463 hospital in Shenyang. > > > He has asked me to do some research. > > > Does anyone have experience or insight into this? > > > Many thanks, > > > George > > > > > > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Anne, on the abortion issue, someone i know told me that they don't hand out birth control in China. the abortions are their birth control. but according to China Daily 8-3-2005, 100,000 women in 11 provinces or municipalities use IUD's. don't know about other forms of birth control there, or why abortion or rampant if any birth control is available. i do know that 'family planning,' i.e. the 1 child policy is strictly enforced. in fact, in 2000, the enforcement was stepped up with the goal of controlling China's population to 1.4b by 2010. Lynn " anne.crowley " <anne.crowley Saturday, February 3, 2007 9:40:48 AM Re: stem cell therapy _,_._,___ ______________________________\ ____ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games. http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Thank you for your most helpful comments. The company involved is www.beikebiotech.com Little wonder he wants me to do the research, I think that the sums involved are rather large. George Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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