Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may have taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). I really like ACTCM's curriculum, but I really really want to learn everything Jeffrey Yuen has to teach. It's a tough choice. In addition to input, please answer: could either be done if you didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can fly in for the long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the way through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions) thank you all. sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sami, I assume you mean AUCM's PhD in Classical . My impression is that Jeffrey is not the only instructor. Is that OK? As I understand it, AUCM's program also offers most of its classes in a distance learning format (ie, internet?). This program is along the lines of being research oriented and a traditional PhD, that also requires a thesis defense. I have asked them for info and am considering something similar. As for ACTCM's DAOM, that one is brand new and they have not yet had a graduating class, so there is much unknown. I would think that you could do the clinical parts when you fly in but I do not know. You might request or try to download their DAOM catalog and/or talk with their admissions person. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : herbsnacupnxr: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 03:46:07 +0000TCM - phd/doctorate programs Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may have taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). I really like ACTCM's curriculum, but I really really want to learn everything Jeffrey Yuen has to teach. It's a tough choice.In addition to input, please answer: could either be done if you didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can fly in for the long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the way through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions)thank you all.sami _______________ Get connected - Use your Hotmail address to sign into now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Sami, I just spoke with the president of ACTCM today about the Doctoral program at ACTCM. ACTCM is applying for WASC regional accreditation, which will allow for federal financial assistance. Lixin Huang says that if all goes fine, then the projected time that this will start will be in 2008, next year. However, this is only speculative at this point. Everyone I've asked that attended the Masters program at ACTCM and is now attending the first class of the doctoral program has given it positive reviews, this includes some elder teachers from the school. I believe the tuition is running around $30 some thousand for 9 quarters, with a long weekend (4 days a month) once a month. I do not believe that you can do this by computer correspondence. After completion, you receive a DAOM (doctorate of acupuncture and oriental medicine) title. This is a clinical title. I've also looked into AUCM (Jeffrey Yuen's school). The tuition is around $20,000 and is mainly correspondence. After completion, you receive a Ph.D. (non-clinical). If you're wondering about using the title of doctor before your name, I don't believe that in California, at least, if you have a Ph.D., you can not call yourself a 'doctor' while working in the context of clinical work, that is not educational or research oriented. So, a Ph.D. in bio-chemistry can not be called doctor so and so, while performing in an acupuncture clinic, although this person can be called doctor so and so at the university, teaching or researching bio-chemistry. If I'm wrong, let me know. This is my understanding. I've spoken with people who want to get the title of doctor before their name (actually post-name), so they have expressed interest in the AUCM program, but you may want to check with the national and state organizations first, before you invest in the $20.. grand. I've heard that in five states, including Maine, Florida and New Mexico, APs and the like, are considered physicians and can legally be called " doctor " . Maybe someone can validate or debunk that claim. At ACTCM, Five Branches, OCOM, Bastyr, PCOM etc, the programs are all at least 1000 hours long. I believe that the ACTCM program is at 1284 hours (didactic and clinical). This means if you graduated with 3000 hours in California recently and you finish the extra 1200+ hours, you would have the same amount of formal training as a D.C. and comparable with doctors of psychology, M.Ds and D.Os without the paid residency hours. Hopefully, in the future, there will be a entry level doctorate set around 4200 hours with a national exam which tests fairly and accurately this level of education. Included would be herbal training, extended western medicine disease differentiation and referral knowledge, as well as some form of Chinese classical readings, harvesting the breadth and depth of knowledge from thousands of years. As far as Jeffrey Yuen's information, my take on this is to spend $2000 x 2 to take his 2 year herbal course via correspondence and to buy everything he has written and spoken on tape and the material that has been transcribed. For more info call AUCM, who facilitates this training. www.conferencerecording.com (look up " Jeffrey Yuen " - all conferences) http://www.nesa.edu/YuenTransOrderPDF.pdf (from NESA transcripts) http://www.herbalroom.com/PDF/jyorder.pdf (his two books and other transcripts) http://www.redwingbooks.com/products/books/AcuCliHan.cfm (Jeffrey Yuen's material written by one of his students- Jeffrey Jacob) http://www.actcm.edu/html/DoctoralProgram.html http://www.aucm.org/program.asp?ProgId=17 Hope this helps. kokko On 2/2/07, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Sami, > I assume you mean AUCM's PhD in Classical . My impression > is that Jeffrey is not the only instructor. Is that OK? As I understand it, > AUCM's program also offers most of its classes in a distance learning format > (ie, internet?). This program is along the lines of being research oriented > and a traditional PhD, that also requires a thesis defense. I have asked > them for info and am considering something similar. As for ACTCM's DAOM, > that one is brand new and they have not yet had a graduating class, so there > is much unknown. I would think that you could do the clinical parts when you > fly in but I do not know. You might request or try to download their DAOM > catalog and/or talk with their admissions person. > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > To: Chinese Medicine<Chinese Medicine%40\ From>: > herbsnacupnxr <herbsnacupnxr%40Date>: Fri, 2 Feb > 2007 03:46:07 +0000phd/doctorate programs > > Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the > other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may have > taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). I really like ACTCM's > curriculum, but I really really want to learn everything Jeffrey Yuen has to > teach. It's a tough choice.In addition to input, please answer: could > either be done if you didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can > fly in for the long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the > way through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions)thank you > all.sami > > ________ > Get connected - Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live > Messenger now. > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 re: new DAOM programs: while at PCOM, prior to inception of DAOM programs, i discussed the hypothetical situation of the PCOM DAOM with Stacy gomes, academic dean (mind you this was back a several+ years ago, when the DAOM program was being conceptualized). what i remember from the conversation was that Stacy mentioned that as the DAOM programs begin, the first priority would be to get instructors to doctoral level so to have a body of instructions to teach future programs (you must hold a doctorate degree to teach at the doctorate level). then there would be some program development, so that the earlier classes, while being the first in the profession to hold DAOM degrees, would be guinea pigs for the development of the program. i remember experiencing this at PCOM, it's frustrating. so i would give that some thought before jumping into a new program. personally, i wouldn't consider enrollment until the programs have been around for awhile to work out the kinks. in the future, i imagine programs will cater to distance learning for practitioners who can't leave establ. practices. food for thought. . . hope its helpful, kb On 2/2/07, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Sami, > I assume you mean AUCM's PhD in Classical . My impression > is that Jeffrey is not the only instructor. Is that OK? As I understand it, > AUCM's program also offers most of its classes in a distance learning format > (ie, internet?). This program is along the lines of being research oriented > and a traditional PhD, that also requires a thesis defense. I have asked > them for info and am considering something similar. As for ACTCM's DAOM, > that one is brand new and they have not yet had a graduating class, so there > is much unknown. I would think that you could do the clinical parts when you > fly in but I do not know. You might request or try to download their DAOM > catalog and/or talk with their admissions person. > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > To: Chinese Medicine<Chinese Medicine%40\ From>: > herbsnacupnxr <herbsnacupnxr%40Date>: Fri, 2 Feb > 2007 03:46:07 +0000phd/doctorate programs > > Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the > other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may have > taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). I really like ACTCM's > curriculum, but I really really want to learn everything Jeffrey Yuen has to > teach. It's a tough choice.In addition to input, please answer: could > either be done if you didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can > fly in for the long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the > way through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions)thank you > all.sami > > ________ > Get connected - Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live > Messenger now. > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 In a message dated 2/3/2007 4:02:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, johnkokko writes: I've heard that in five states, including Maine, Florida and New Mexico, APs and the like, are considered physicians and can legally be called " doctor " . Maybe someone can validate or debunk that claim. Also check out Arkansas, West Virginia, and Rhode Island to name a few others. In Florida all it took was three determined individuals, two of which are licensees, who stuck their necks on the line.....and after a six year battle.....saved the state authorized words, letters, insignia etc including Acupuncture Physician and Doctor of Oriental Medicine. The AOMNC supported these efforts. No other state or national organization lifted a finger to support the efforts. Ponder this..... Since the early 70's the schools which were all trade schools......now some are offering new non PhD - so called doctoral research degrees and maybe 1 or 2 are trying to get included within the regional accreditation system at $30,000 to $50,000 dollars for the program. Any wonder why there was no support to help save the titles? Richard In Florida the LAW reads..... 2006 - Chapter 457.116, Florida Statutes.... Prohibited acts; penalty.-- (1) A person may not: (a) Practice acupuncture unless the person is licensed under ss. _457.101_ (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute & Search_Str ing= & URL=Ch0457/Sec101.HTM) -457.118; (b) Use, in connection with his or her name or place of business, any title or description of services which incorporates the words " acupuncture, " " acupuncturist, " " certified acupuncturist, " " licensed acupuncturist, " " oriental medical practitioner " ; the letters " L.Ac., " " R.Ac., " " A.P., " or " D.O.M. " ; or any other words, letters, abbreviations, or insignia indicating or implying that he or she practices acupuncture unless he or she is a holder of a valid license issued pursuant to ss. _457.101_ (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute & Search_Stri\ ng= & URL=Ch0457/Sec101.HTM) -457.118; And the quasi-legislative administrative rule clarifying reads.... 64B1-9.007(3) Advertising. (3) It shall not be considered false, deceptive, or misleading for any persons licensed or certified under Chapter 457, F.S., to use the following initials or terms: (a) L.Ac.; (b) R.Ac.; © A.P.; (d) D.O.M.; (e) Licensed Acupuncturist; (f) Registered Acupuncturist; (g) Acupuncture Physician; and (h) Doctor of Oriental Medicine. Specific Authority 456.072, 457.104, 457.109 FS. Law Implemented 456.072(1)(a), (m), 457.109(1)(d), (e), (k) FS. History–New 9-27-06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Kath, You are right about the future instructors will need to have some kind of doctorate degree. As it stands in CA, the Acu Bd states something very similar for the masters programs with one exception, it still allows those with a Bachelor's of medicine to be a clinical supervisor. These individuals though will not be allowed to teach in the classroom. There are several schools, both in CA as well as other western states, that have had several cohorts of DAOM students. Emperor's college and OCOM seem to have graduated the most classes so far. The future will be an entry-level doctorate and so get future faculty up to this level is a reasonable first step. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > acukath > Sat, 3 Feb 2007 00:30:38 -0500 > Re: phd/doctorate programs > > re: new DAOM programs: > while at PCOM, prior to inception of DAOM programs, i discussed the > hypothetical situation of the PCOM DAOM with Stacy gomes, academic dean > (mind you this was back a several+ years ago, when the DAOM program was > being conceptualized). what i remember from the conversation was that Stacy > mentioned that as the DAOM programs begin, the first priority would be to > get instructors to doctoral level so to have a body of instructions to teach > future programs (you must hold a doctorate degree to teach at the doctorate > level). then there would be some program development, so that the earlier > classes, while being the first in the profession to hold DAOM degrees, would > be guinea pigs for the development of the program. i remember experiencing > this at PCOM, it's frustrating. > so i would give that some thought before jumping into a new program. > personally, i wouldn't consider enrollment until the programs have been > around for awhile to work out the kinks. in the future, i imagine programs > will cater to distance learning for practitioners who can't leave establ. > practices. > food for thought. . . hope its helpful, > kb > On 2/2/07, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > > Sami, > > I assume you mean AUCM's PhD in Classical . My impression > > is that Jeffrey is not the only instructor. Is that OK? As I understand it, > > AUCM's program also offers most of its classes in a distance learning format > > (ie, internet?). This program is along the lines of being research oriented > > and a traditional PhD, that also requires a thesis defense. I have asked > > them for info and am considering something similar. As for ACTCM's DAOM, > > that one is brand new and they have not yet had a graduating class, so there > > is much unknown. I would think that you could do the clinical parts when you > > fly in but I do not know. You might request or try to download their DAOM > > catalog and/or talk with their admissions person. > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > : > > herbsnacupnxr : Fri, 2 Feb > > 2007 03:46:07 +0000phd/doctorate programs > > > > Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the > > other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may have > > taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). I really like ACTCM's > > curriculum, but I really really want to learn everything Jeffrey Yuen has to > > teach. It's a tough choice.In addition to input, please answer: could > > either be done if you didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can > > fly in for the long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the > > way through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions)thank you > > all.sami > > > > ________ > > Get connected - Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live > > Messenger now. > > http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Sami, one thing to consider is why you want the dergree. If you are thinking of teaching in the schools, a DAOM is definetely a plus. If that is not a consideration then there are a number of other PHD programs that might not be as recognized but may be more tailored for you. The Yuen program is one as well as more self-directed ones in the Valley etc. I'm not sure why you are willing to fly to San Fran but a more local one. Even though I haven't made the leap, ECTOM's program is getting better and I believe SAMRA's will be good. I see DAOM students every week in the ECTOM clinic so I don't know if this once a month commute really is realistic. Good to hear from you... Chinese Medicine , " Sami Rank LAc " <herbsnacupnxr wrote: > > Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the > other w/Jeffrey Yuen. I'd appreciate any input from those few who may > have taken these programs (I know there aren't many yet). > > I really like ACTCM's curriculum, but I really really want to learn > everything Jeffrey Yuen has to teach. It's a tough choice. > > In addition to input, please answer: could either be done if you > didn't live in the respective cities (they say you can fly in for the > long weekend once a month but I wonder if that's true all the way > through or do you end up doing clinicals etc btw sessions) > > thank you all. > sami > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:46:07 0000, " Sami Rank LAc " <herbsnacupnxr wrote: >> Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one at ACTCM in SF, and the other w/Jeffrey Yuen…. ACTCM offers a DAOM, along lines of the proposed ACCAOM degree, similar to PCOM, OCOM, 5-Branches, etc. PCOM has graduated it's 1st class. 5-Branches has started teaching the 1st class (and reportedly is well enrolled.) Some of these advertise having to be there for long-weekends periodically, so not 100% residential; but for much, especially clinical, one might just have to live there for a while. It varies. Don Snow and Dr. Sperber (forget his 1st name) were in the first class completing the DOAM as PCOM, and both have contributed to this forum. The DAOM's appear to me to be roughly similar, so you may contact them. BTW, one hear about " accreditation " of these, but, as of early last month at least, the ACCAOM's ability to accredit doctorate programs has yet to be condoned by the US Dept of Education division that does that. Until so, they aren't really " accredited. " (This according to Kathryn White, president of AUCM in LA.) And hence the mention of WASC regional accreditation (by ), which would completely bypass the ACCAOM. AUCM's Jeffery Yuen program is a combination of distance learning (videos/cd/dvds and on-line discussion groups), and showing up in LA or SF a couple of weekends per year. The so-far fairly consistent schedule is: SF: (2 day weekends) January 1st weekend after New Years, usually ca. 7 or 8th November, 1st weekend roughly LA: (4 day weekends, 6-parts series spread over Fridays and Mondays, e.g. currently ShangHanLun on Fridays, and Liu WanSu school on Mondays; various special topics Sat & Sun) March ca. 3rd weekend June ca. 3rd weekend October ca. 1st weekend Also this year an extra weekend, August in SF, on pulse diagnosis according to channel systems (as distinct from zangfu), which has become a series, growing out of a weekend last November, continued last month (January) and continuing August and November, all in SF. Some classes, like statistics, are taught by others, but it's mostly Jeffery, in person or recorded. (One of the statistics courses was taught by Dr. Terry Oleson, perhaps familiar as author of Auricular Acupuncture books.) Performance is on the basis of written papers, roughly 5 pages worth per unit, as I understand it. They can be research, scholarly, interpretive, clinical, etc., i.e. flexible. And a full dissertation. (Some are doing translations and commentaries of classical texts.) The program is academic semester 68 units, or about 1000 hrs. BTW: Word has it that the New England School of Acupuncture (NESA, in Boston/Cambrigde) is developing a PhD similar to AUCM's, i.e. under Jeffery Yuen's guidance. Rumor, from 1st hand and reliable sources, has it that there's some negotiation to be completed with some " stake-holders " at NESA who have reservations. Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:04:03 0800, " " <johnkokko wrote: If you're wondering about using the title of doctor before your name,… According to California Acupuncture Board, you can " professionally represent yourself " as Dr (on cards, letterhead, etc.) if you have an accredited (or California BPPVE approved) doctorate in or " closely related " to A/OM. Arguably, if you have a genuine PhD in, say, nutritional science, or orther medically relevant bio-science, you might consider that related. " Accredited " means can be traced back to authorization by the US. Dept. of Education, usually through agencies granted that by the DoE, such as ACCAOM, WASC, etc. Sat, 3 Feb 2007 00:30:38 0500, " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: >>… programs (you must hold a doctorate degree to teach at the doctorate level… True, at least most instructors must have credentials at the level of the program's degree. Exceptions can be specialties, e.g. qigong masters, or other sorts of experts in less formalized fields. and >> i would give that some thought before jumping into a new program An important factor. There's something to be said, though, for being on the pioneering phase. For instance, I spent two years in the late 1960's in the then brand new Computer Science Masters program at Berkeley. It was somewhat informal. Whiz-kid undergraduates from MIT were giving the main lectures, attended by the whole community, from undergraduates to senior profs of electrical engineering. Rubbing shoulders on a collegial basis with people who later went on to Xerox PARC in elsewhere in germinal Silicon Valley, and invented things like the personal computer, programming languages, operating systems, the windows-mouse user interface, the ethernet, laser printing, etc. Somewhat like the origins of the European universities people getting together to listen and discuss with those who knew something. (Jim Grey, famous database guru, just in the news as having disappeared off the coast of California in his sailboat, was my teacher in my very first class in programming.) Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:14:59 EST, acudoc11 wrote: >>..... Since the early 70's the schools which were all trade schools... True. and TCM education in China can be said to be a technical education along similar lines. Although in Chinese tradition medical masters were largely well and broadly educated (Confucian and/or Taoist scholars), modern medical education, as far as I can tell, is entered directly out of high school, and structured more like a technical trade than a university education, in the Western sense. I have seen sample curricula (as former dean in a TCM school, and one find these in Kim Taylor's and Elizabeth Hsu's books). Besides the medical science and TCM courses, there's only a series of political-historical courses required ( " propaganda " , essentially). One can argue that Western (American) MD education has become somewhat technical and specialized, but it's still basically structured along European lines, i.e. entered on the basis of a full university-level education, often in " liberal arts " . European doctors were traditionally often aristocrats, broadly educated and relatively free to support a career in " service " , and often doing research on the side. Medical education was traditionally in Latin, like all academic and scientific study, into at least the 19th Century. (My statements above are on the basis of 1) having been dean in a TCM school and having represented the school in the approval processes with both the Calif. Acupuncture Board, and the ACCAOM, which included many in-depth but informal discussions as to the then forming doctorate ideas. and 2) being enrolled in the AUCM program for the past couple of years.) -- Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release 2/4/2007 1:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Chris, thanks for the informative letter. Interesting to hear about NESA's potential Ph.D. program. Also, thanks for the clarification on using the term " doctor " in clinical practice. Here is the regulation from the CA state board on this issue: Title 16 article 5.1399.456 http://www.acupuncture.ca.gov/law_reg/art5.htm#1399456 So, it would seem that a Ph.D.in " Classical " (or any biological science that is related to the practice of an acupuncturist " as set forth in sections 4927 and 4937 of the Code " from an " accredited, approved or authorized " institution such as AUCM, would qualify an acupuncturist to use the title " Dr. " in clinical acupuncture and Oriental medical practice. On 2/4/07, < wrote: > > Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:46:07 0000, " Sami Rank LAc " > <herbsnacupnxr <herbsnacupnxr%40>> wrote: > >> Hello all, i am contemplating 2 programs, one > at ACTCM in SF, and the other w/Jeffrey Yuen…. > > ACTCM offers a DAOM, along lines of the proposed > ACCAOM degree, similar to PCOM, OCOM, 5-Branches, > etc. PCOM has graduated it's 1st class. > 5-Branches has started teaching the 1st class > (and reportedly is well enrolled.) Some of these > advertise having to be there for long-weekends > periodically, so not 100% residential; but for > much, especially clinical, one might just have to > live there for a while. It varies. Don Snow and > Dr. Sperber (forget his 1st name) were in the > first class completing the DOAM as PCOM, and both > have contributed to this forum. The DAOM's appear > to me to be roughly similar, so you may contact them. > > BTW, one hear about " accreditation " of these, > but, as of early last month at least, the > ACCAOM's ability to accredit doctorate programs > has yet to be condoned by the US Dept of > Education division that does that. Until so, they > aren't really " accredited. " (This according to > Kathryn White, president of AUCM in LA.) And > hence the mention of WASC regional accreditation > (by ), which would completely bypass the ACCAOM. > > AUCM's Jeffery Yuen program is a combination of > distance learning (videos/cd/dvds and on-line > discussion groups), and showing up in LA or SF a > couple of weekends per year. The so-far fairly consistent schedule is: > SF: (2 day weekends) > January 1st weekend after New Years, usually ca. 7 or 8th > November, 1st weekend roughly > LA: (4 day weekends, 6-parts series spread over > Fridays and Mondays, e.g. currently ShangHanLun > on Fridays, and Liu WanSu school on Mondays; various special topics Sat & > Sun) > March ca. 3rd weekend > June ca. 3rd weekend > October ca. 1st weekend > Also this year an extra weekend, August in SF, on > pulse diagnosis according to channel systems (as > distinct from zangfu), which has become a series, > growing out of a weekend last November, continued > last month (January) and continuing August and November, all in SF. > > Some classes, like statistics, are taught by > others, but it's mostly Jeffery, in person or > recorded. (One of the statistics courses was > taught by Dr. Terry Oleson, perhaps familiar as > author of Auricular Acupuncture books.) > > Performance is on the basis of written papers, > roughly 5 pages worth per unit, as I understand > it. They can be research, scholarly, > interpretive, clinical, etc., i.e. flexible. And > a full dissertation. (Some are doing translations > and commentaries of classical texts.) The program > is academic semester 68 units, or about 1000 hrs. > > BTW: Word has it that the New England School of > Acupuncture (NESA, in Boston/Cambrigde) is > developing a PhD similar to AUCM's, i.e. under > Jeffery Yuen's guidance. Rumor, from 1st hand and > reliable sources, has it that there's some > negotiation to be completed with some > " stake-holders " at NESA who have reservations. > > Fri, 2 Feb 2007 20:04:03 0800, " " <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > If you're wondering about using the title of doctor before your name,… > > According to California Acupuncture Board, you > can " professionally represent yourself " as Dr (on > cards, letterhead, etc.) if you have an > accredited (or California BPPVE approved) > doctorate in or " closely related " to A/OM. > Arguably, if you have a genuine PhD in, say, > nutritional science, or orther medically relevant > bio-science, you might consider that related. > " Accredited " means can be traced back to > authorization by the US. Dept. of Education, > usually through agencies granted that by the DoE, such as ACCAOM, WASC, > etc. > > Sat, 3 Feb 2007 00:30:38 0500, " Kath Bartlett, > MS, LAc " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>> wrote: > >>… programs (you must hold a doctorate degree to teach at the doctorate > level… > > True, at least most instructors must have > credentials at the level of the program's degree. > Exceptions can be specialties, e.g. qigong > masters, or other sorts of experts in less formalized fields. > > and >> i would give that some thought before jumping into a new program > > An important factor. There's something to be > said, though, for being on the pioneering phase. > For instance, I spent two years in the late > 1960's in the then brand new Computer Science > Masters program at Berkeley. It was somewhat > informal. Whiz-kid undergraduates from MIT were > giving the main lectures, attended by the whole > community, from undergraduates to senior profs of > electrical engineering. Rubbing shoulders on a > collegial basis with people who later went on to > Xerox PARC in elsewhere in germinal Silicon > Valley, and invented things like the personal > computer, programming languages, operating > systems, the windows-mouse user interface, the > ethernet, laser printing, etc. Somewhat like the > origins of the European universities people > getting together to listen and discuss with those > who knew something. (Jim Grey, famous database > guru, just in the news as having disappeared off > the coast of California in his sailboat, was my > teacher in my very first class in programming.) > > Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:14:59 EST, acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com> wrote: > > >>..... Since the early 70's the schools which were all trade schools... > > True. and TCM education in China can be said to > be a technical education along similar lines. > Although in Chinese tradition medical masters > were largely well and broadly educated (Confucian > and/or Taoist scholars), modern medical > education, as far as I can tell, is entered > directly out of high school, and structured more > like a technical trade than a university > education, in the Western sense. I have seen > sample curricula (as former dean in a TCM school, > and one find these in Kim Taylor's and Elizabeth > Hsu's books). Besides the medical science and TCM > courses, there's only a series of > political-historical courses required ( " propaganda " , essentially). > > One can argue that Western (American) MD > education has become somewhat technical and > specialized, but it's still basically structured > along European lines, i.e. entered on the basis > of a full university-level education, often in > " liberal arts " . European doctors were > traditionally often aristocrats, broadly educated > and relatively free to support a career in > " service " , and often doing research on the side. > Medical education was traditionally in Latin, > like all academic and scientific study, into at least the 19th Century. > > (My statements above are on the basis of 1) > having been dean in a TCM school and having > represented the school in the approval processes > with both the Calif. Acupuncture Board, and the > ACCAOM, which included many in-depth but informal > discussions as to the then forming doctorate > ideas. and 2) being enrolled in the AUCM program for the past couple of > years.) > > > > -- > > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release 2/4/2007 > 1:30 AM > > > -- 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem.' Jiddu Krishnamurti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Chris, Nice to get this info. I think you were referring to Dr. " Greg " Sperber at PCOM. He is both a foreign trained MD and a successful graduate from PCOM's DAOM program. I am sure he can elighten us about the program he went thru. There are many other DAOM's currently with students other then the few you listed. These include: Bastyr, Samra, Emperor's college. You may or may not want to include the DOM by South Baylo. From the PhD dept we have AUCM, glad to hear from one professional who is taking classes in this. SCU-SOMA, a fairly new TCM school in the LA area has also advertised a joint PhD program with Liaoning college and some courses in the LA area with another college. There are some rather unknown PhD's that cater to the out of state crowd (not in CA) and these would by the American Liberty Univ or Gobal Univ and then you have Yuen Univ (located in Compton or South central LA). I would disagree with the content or even the focus of the DAOM being the same, as each tends to have quite a different focus (pain, orthopedics, women health, oncology, etc). As such, it is important to pick the focus that is right for the individual as no one size fits all. Tri-state in NY has been advertizing an interest in getting a acupuncture-only doctorate going in the near future. Also, East-west college in FL is working on getting its DAOM going. I am glad to hear that the profession is moving forward with education. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac PS, I would like know what you think of your PhD experiences at AUCM. _______________ Live Search: New search found http://get.live.com/search/overview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Mike, Though an approved program, Samra has not yet begun their DAOM, and they are anticipating to either begin in April or the fall. Yehuda mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: Chris, Nice to get this info. I think you were referring to Dr. " Greg " Sperber at PCOM. He is both a foreign trained MD and a successful graduate from PCOM's DAOM program. I am sure he can elighten us about the program he went thru. There are many other DAOM's currently with students other then the few you listed. These include: Bastyr, Samra, Emperor's college. You may or may not want to include the DOM by South Baylo. From the PhD dept we have AUCM, glad to hear from one professional who is taking classes in this. SCU-SOMA, a fairly new TCM school in the LA area has also advertised a joint PhD program with Liaoning college and some courses in the LA area with another college. There are some rather unknown PhD's that cater to the out of state crowd (not in CA) and these would by the American Liberty Univ or Gobal Univ and then you have Yuen Univ (located in Compton or South central LA). I would disagree with the content or even the focus of the DAOM being the same, as each tends to have quite a different focus (pain, orthopedics, women health, oncology, etc). As such, it is important to pick the focus that is right for the individual as no one size fits all. Tri-state in NY has been advertizing an interest in getting a acupuncture-only doctorate going in the near future. Also, East-west college in FL is working on getting its DAOM going. I am glad to hear that the profession is moving forward with education. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac PS, I would like know what you think of your PhD experiences at AUCM. ________ Live Search: New search found http://get.live.com/search/overview http://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Yehuda, Thanks for pointing that out. I knew they were soon to begin. I look forward to seeing what they will focus upon. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > > Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:00:18 -0800 > RE: Re: phd/doctorate programs > > Mike, > Though an approved program, Samra has not yet begun their DAOM, and they are anticipating to either begin in April or the fall. > Yehuda > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > Chris, > Nice to get this info. I think you were referring to Dr. " Greg " Sperber at PCOM. > He is both a foreign trained MD and a successful graduate from PCOM's DAOM > program. I am sure he can elighten us about the program he went thru. > There are many other DAOM's currently with students other then the few you > listed. These include: Bastyr, Samra, Emperor's college. You may or may not > want to include the DOM by South Baylo. From the PhD dept we have AUCM, > glad to hear from one professional who is taking classes in this. SCU-SOMA, > a fairly new TCM school in the LA area has also advertised a joint PhD program > with Liaoning college and some courses in the LA area with another college. > There are some rather unknown PhD's that cater to the out of state crowd > (not in CA) and these would by the American Liberty Univ or Gobal Univ and > then you have Yuen Univ (located in Compton or South central LA). > I would disagree with the content or even the focus of the DAOM being the > same, as each tends to have quite a different focus (pain, orthopedics, women > health, oncology, etc). As such, it is important to pick the focus that is right > for the individual as no one size fits all. Tri-state in NY has been advertizing > an interest in getting a acupuncture-only doctorate going in the near future. > Also, East-west college in FL is working on getting its DAOM going. I am glad > to hear that the profession is moving forward with education. > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > PS, I would like know what you think of your PhD experiences at AUCM. > ________ > Live Search: New search found > http://get.live.com/search/overview > > http://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/ > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Answers Food & Drink Q & A. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Chinese Medicine , acudoc11 wrote: > In Florida the LAW reads..... > 2006 - Chapter 457.116, Florida Statutes.... Prohibited acts; penalty.-- > > (1) A person may not: > (a) Practice acupuncture unless the person is licensed under ss. _457.101_ > (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute & Search_Str > ing= & URL=Ch0457/Sec101.HTM) -457.118; > (b) Use, in connection with his or her name or place of business, any title > or description of services which incorporates the words " acupuncture, " > " acupuncturist, " " certified acupuncturist, " " licensed acupuncturist, " " oriental > medical practitioner " ; the letters " L.Ac., " " R.Ac., " " A.P., " or " D.O.M. " ; or any > other words, letters, abbreviations, or insignia indicating or implying that > he or she practices acupuncture unless he or she is a holder of a valid > license issued pursuant to ss. _457.101_ > (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute & Search_Stri\ ng= & URL=Ch0457/Sec101.HTM) -457.118; I don't know about your area but in Central Fl MANY massage therapists are using pointers and electro stim without needles and calling it acupuncture. I have patients coming in saying they don't desire acupuncture as it doesn't work. I find out they had the pointer or even magnets. Should we make a stink about this like they are making a stink about Reiki? The massage therapists are united and spouting that they are the only ones allowed to do Reiki in our state if the body is touched. We have it in our practice act as well. There was a newspaper article a couple of months ago in the Orlando Sentinel that said only massage therapists could teach Reiki. Anyone know more about this? I personally could not find the article. Can anyone direct me to how much training a physical therapist needs to do acupuncture as there are several in town doing acupuncture as well. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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