Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

[Guest guest]

I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate of

acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated and

it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work, come

hell or high water.

 

 

 

Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about why

it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered my

own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before that

people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about it,

though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended to

practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the west

coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to traditional

(western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or RNs.

How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in their

fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in that

boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

statistic.

 

 

 

So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much different

than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship. Perhaps

we should be proud??

 

 

 

It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this prior

to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect world,

I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then, schools

are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Barbara

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

ethically, the schools have a responsibility to be straight forward with

perspective candidates about the realities of practicing the medicine they

propose to teach. adding a practice mgmt curriculum would dramatically imp.

those stats.

 

perhaps websites like TCM student could help get the word out to perspective

acupuncture students about the stats of making it in practice.

 

on the flip side: those of us who have passed the 5 year mark and are

running profitable practices really have quite an accomplishment, esp.

considering the total lack of practice mgmt skills taught by the schools.

 

we should get awards for having made it!

 

kb

 

 

On 1/27/07, Barbara Beale <bbeale wrote:

>

>

>

> I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate of

> acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

> practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

> source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated and

> it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

> or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work,

> come

> hell or high water.

>

> Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about

> why

> it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered my

> own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

> practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before

> that

> people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about it,

> though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended to

> practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

> expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the

> west

> coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

> doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to traditional

> (western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or RNs.

> How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in

> their

> fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

> out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

> the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in that

> boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

> statistic.

>

> So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much different

> than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship. Perhaps

> we should be proud??

>

> It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this

> prior

> to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect world,

> I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then, schools

> are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

> baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Barbara

>

>

[Guest guest]

The question should be how many of the students that graduate have the

intention of working as full time Acupuncture Physicians. Then take a

statistic on how many of those are still doing it five years down the line.

 

My school was full of retired MD's who wanted to learn more, medical people

looking to adjunct their specialties, high salaried businessmen who were

looking to change jobs after retirement because they could not walk away

from 6 figure incomes and so on. We also had people who studied here and

went on to other countries to practice.

 

My school was very straight forward with the success rate figures, but, I

also believe that if we want something bad enough, we can create it. This

includes successful acupuncture practices.

 

Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

321-961-6432

A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Kath

Bartlett, MS, LAc

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:25 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

 

 

ethically, the schools have a responsibility to be straight forward with

perspective candidates about the realities of practicing the medicine they

propose to teach. adding a practice mgmt curriculum would dramatically

imp.

those stats.

 

perhaps websites like TCM student could help get the word out to

perspective

acupuncture students about the stats of making it in practice.

 

on the flip side: those of us who have passed the 5 year mark and are

running profitable practices really have quite an accomplishment, esp.

considering the total lack of practice mgmt skills taught by the schools.

 

we should get awards for having made it!

 

kb

 

On 1/27/07, Barbara Beale <bbeale wrote:

>

>

>

> I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate

of

> acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

> practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

> source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated

and

> it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

> or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work,

> come

> hell or high water.

>

> Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about

> why

> it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered

my

> own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

> practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before

> that

> people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about

it,

> though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended

to

> practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

> expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the

> west

> coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

> doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to

traditional

> (western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or

RNs.

> How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in

> their

> fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

> out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

> the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in

that

> boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

> statistic.

>

> So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much

different

> than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship.

Perhaps

> we should be proud??

>

> It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this

> prior

> to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect

world,

> I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then,

schools

> are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

> baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Barbara

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

 

I would think that honestly portraying the profession would be

important. I have heard of some interesting and dishonest

things that have been told to prospective students. Sometimes

they find out the truth after they enroll. Some quit while others

transfer. There does seem to be an ethics deficiency.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Chinese Medicine

> bbeale

> Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:11:53 -0800

> Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

>

> I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate of

> acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

> practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

> source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated and

> it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

> or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work, come

> hell or high water.

> Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about why

> it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered my

> own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

> practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before that

> people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about it,

> though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended to

> practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

> expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the west

> coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

> doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to traditional

> (western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or RNs.

> How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in their

> fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

> out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

> the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in that

> boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

> statistic.

> So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much different

> than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship. Perhaps

> we should be proud??

> It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this prior

> to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect world,

> I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then, schools

> are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

> baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

> Thoughts?

> Barbara

>

[Guest guest]

Lee, et al:

 

I did find the school's marketing approach to potential acupuncturists to be

unrealistic. I was always very straight forward with people and still am. I do

not tell everyone to go to acupuncture school, as my school would probably want.

I did, however, counsel a few people who wanted to drop out. I always ask the

question, " Is this what you love, is this what you really want to be doing. " If

I get a " yes " , then I went into the motivation speech. If someone said, I

really wanted to go to chiropractic school or med school, or be a physican's

assistant, then they should find the door, really. The sad part is when

someone really does want to do this work and cannot make it as an entrepreneur.

I would hope there would be jobs in hospitals and also working for someone who

is good at this (an integrated clinic maybe, another acupuncturist who has a

growing business.)

 

I also think trying to make a go at something that is so personal, and spiritual

(allow me Thomas), sometimes give us conflicting signals as business people.

The nurse at the hospital does not mind being given a raise, does not loose

revenue when bed spots are not filled. They really have alot less conflict with

this business end. Now there are MD's and DDS that do need to make a business

successful. This is rather inelastic demand. The only challenge with dentists

is there are so many of them. A lot have gone into cosmetic work as a result.

It also brings in non insurance revenue and people don't mind paying. Same

would be true for facial reejuenation acupuncture.

 

I don't know where I was going with this but hit some points somebody brought

up.

 

Anne

 

 

-------------- Original message ----------------------

" Acudoc " <acudoc

> The question should be how many of the students that graduate have the

> intention of working as full time Acupuncture Physicians. Then take a

> statistic on how many of those are still doing it five years down the line.

>

> My school was full of retired MD's who wanted to learn more, medical people

> looking to adjunct their specialties, high salaried businessmen who were

> looking to change jobs after retirement because they could not walk away

> from 6 figure incomes and so on. We also had people who studied here and

> went on to other countries to practice.

>

> My school was very straight forward with the success rate figures, but, I

> also believe that if we want something bad enough, we can create it. This

> includes successful acupuncture practices.

>

> Lee Tritt, AP, OMD, Dipl. Ac.(NCCAOM)

> 321-961-6432

> A LITTLE " NEEDLING " NEVER HURT ANYONE

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Kath

> Bartlett, MS, LAc

> Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:25 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

>

>

> ethically, the schools have a responsibility to be straight forward with

> perspective candidates about the realities of practicing the medicine they

> propose to teach. adding a practice mgmt curriculum would dramatically

> imp.

> those stats.

>

> perhaps websites like TCM student could help get the word out to

> perspective

> acupuncture students about the stats of making it in practice.

>

> on the flip side: those of us who have passed the 5 year mark and are

> running profitable practices really have quite an accomplishment, esp.

> considering the total lack of practice mgmt skills taught by the schools.

>

> we should get awards for having made it!

>

> kb

>

> On 1/27/07, Barbara Beale <bbeale wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate

> of

> > acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

> > practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

> > source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated

> and

> > it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

> > or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work,

> > come

> > hell or high water.

> >

> > Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about

> > why

> > it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered

> my

> > own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

> > practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before

> > that

> > people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about

> it,

> > though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended

> to

> > practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

> > expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the

> > west

> > coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

> > doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to

> traditional

> > (western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or

> RNs.

> > How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in

> > their

> > fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

> > out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

> > the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in

> that

> > boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

> > statistic.

> >

> > So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much

> different

> > than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship.

> Perhaps

> > we should be proud??

> >

> > It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this

> > prior

> > to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect

> world,

> > I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then,

> schools

> > are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

> > baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

> >

> > Thoughts?

> >

> > Barbara

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think it is important to keep this in perspective. Most businesses fail

in 2 to 5 years. Why so many of us aren't practicing after 5 years has as

much or more to do with failing at business than anything else. I think

Barbara you are right about the statistic being so high because most of us

have to start our own practice and few of us have the skills or resources to

do it right.

 

While I was in school there were some students I looked at and saw working

in the clinic and wondered what they were doing there. They were in for a

serious wake up call when they tried to make a go of a practice when they

complained that a test was too hard, or that it was too demanding to show up

on time for clinic. For me, school was a piece of cake compared to starting

my practice. The fear of taking an herb final was nothing compared to

putting $12K on the line when I put out my shingle waiting for the phone to

ring. It was the scariest thing I have ever done.

 

I also remember some students while I was in school that just had " it " .

They studied hard, but more than that, they had the passion and the vision

that I believe is required for this medicine. These were the students that

couldn't wait to get to clinic, to interact with patients, to get involved

with their case and most importantly to make the medicine a part of who they

were. Acupuncture can seem glamorous from the outside to some people. The

reality is that it is hard work and without a clear central vision and a

network of support from other TCM folks people will burn out or drop out

when things get tough.

 

I was very lucky to have my practice management professor. I've heard

horror stories about some practice management courses. Mine was first rate

from a 20 year veteran of running an acupuncture practice and making a lot

of money in the process. I'm now in the position of teacher as I teach

practice management at my local acupuncture college. I love teaching that

class as it grounds me better in the business aspects of what I do, and I

can hopefully provide relevant and useful tools to making a practice work to

my students.

 

I believe that anyone with the vision can make the business end of the

practice work. The tools are available and the path has been made clear by

those who have gone before us. It just takes determination and guts. Good

traits for anyone going into business for themselves.

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

9832 N. Hayden Rd.

Suite 215

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:53 PM

Chinese Traditional Medicine

RE: Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

 

 

 

 

Barbara,

 

I would think that honestly portraying the profession would be

important. I have heard of some interesting and dishonest

things that have been told to prospective students. Sometimes

they find out the truth after they enroll. Some quit while others

transfer. There does seem to be an ethics deficiency.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40>

Chinese_Medicine

> bbeale <bbeale%40e-z.net>

> Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:11:53 -0800

> Why so many aren't practicing after 5 years...

>

> I quoted a statistic about 5 posts ago regarding the high failure rate of

> acupuncture practices. The statistic is, " 79% of acupuncturists are not

> practicing within 5 years of graduation. " Sorry, I can't give the actual

> source. It was read to me in a class about 6 months after I graduated and

> it scared me to death. Since there was no other field that interested me

> or that I was trained for anymore, I absolutely had to make this work,

come

> hell or high water.

> Over the years I've thought about this statistic and have thought about

why

> it might be that there's such a high number of non-starters. I pondered my

> own class. I think that perhaps about 35% or so of my class (1997) is

> practicing, although I don't know that for certain. I intimated before

that

> people failed because they couldn't do business. After thinking about it,

> though, I realized that probably 10% of my class never really intended to

> practice. A couple of them just went to school for the fun of it. One

> expressed interest in practicing out of his van driving up and down the

west

> coast. Some didn't have the people skills to get repeat business despite

> doing well on the exams. We can't really compare ourselves to traditional

> (western) practitioners, though. Think about MDs, or PTs, or DDSs, or RNs.

> How many of them HAVE to be self-employed because there are no jobs in

their

> fields? Probably none. It's rare to find a renegade western practitioner

> out there on his/her own. Nearly all western practitioners are employed,

> the complications of business removed from their hands. We are not in that

> boat. How many " jobs " exist for acupuncturists? I wish I had that

> statistic.

> So, probably the 21% that do survive the 5-year mark is not much different

> than would be for any other field that required entrepreneurship. Perhaps

> we should be proud??

> It sure would've been nice, however, to have been fully aware of this

prior

> to attending school and taking out huge student loans. In a perfect world,

> I would expect the schools to divulge this information. But then, schools

> are a business and their job is to sell tuition and degrees, not be the

> baby-sitter to a profession (or should it be?).

> Thoughts?

> Barbara

>