Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 > " Bob Damone " <bdamone > Mon May 12, 2003 10:47:31 AM US/Pacific > " '' " < > RE: software > > Hi > > Yes.The scanner came with software that already had this ability. I > simply had to set the OCR to Chinese instead of English. > > The sequence is as follows: > > 1. I scan the Chinese text as editable text with the OCR set to Chinese > 2. I save the Scanned document as a plain text document > 3. I open it from within Wenlin > 4. Wenlin's auto lookup function is active when you pass the cursor over > the character > > This process primarily saves some dictionary look up time, which can be > quite burdensome in Chinese if you don't know the sound of that > corresponds to a given character. Without the sound, one has to go the > stroke counting way, which takes lots of time. > > It would be interesting to see if one with minimal Chinese language > training could gain significant access to material by using this method. > I use it primarily as an aid to translation. > > I am not sure how this process would be different for a MAC. The above > assumes that I am using Windows XP, which has built-in Chinese language > ability that one simply has to enable in the language preferences > somewhere. Jason B. knows much more about the nuts and bolts. > > Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 We tried to use software to translate Jiao's first book - what we found was that it worked to an extent but it also created some weird problems. And for someone who does not know Chinese the problems would be worse - when are two character supposed to combined as a compound (which changes their meaning) and when are they used individually, when is something Classical and when is it modern (again presenting different meanings). It may save some dictionary time, but I really don't think it would make that much different to the beginning reader of Chinese and might confuse them more. If you have a good dictionary, you have the ability to scroll down and see what compounds are available etc. Does Wen Lin Do this? Marnae --- < wrote: > > > > > > " Bob Damone " <bdamone > > Mon May 12, 2003 10:47:31 AM US/Pacific > > " '' " < > > RE: software > > > > Hi > > > > Yes.The scanner came with software that already > had this ability. I > > simply had to set the OCR to Chinese instead of > English. > > > > The sequence is as follows: > > > > 1. I scan the Chinese text as editable text with > the OCR set to Chinese > > 2. I save the Scanned document as a plain text > document > > 3. I open it from within Wenlin > > 4. Wenlin's auto lookup function is active when > you pass the cursor over > > the character > > > > This process primarily saves some dictionary look > up time, which can be > > quite burdensome in Chinese if you don't know the > sound of that > > corresponds to a given character. Without the > sound, one has to go the > > stroke counting way, which takes lots of time. > > > > It would be interesting to see if one with minimal > Chinese language > > training could gain significant access to material > by using this method. > > I use it primarily as an aid to translation. > > > > I am not sure how this process would be different > for a MAC. The above > > assumes that I am using Windows XP, which has > built-in Chinese language > > ability that one simply has to enable in the > language preferences > > somewhere. Jason B. knows much more about the nuts > and bolts. > > > > > > Chinese Herbs > > voice: > fax: > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition > from mediocre > minds " -- Albert Einstein > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 Wenlin does read compounds. After this discussion, I looked at some of the classics from the online site at http://helios.unive.it/~pregadio/ikei.html with Wenlin, and it listed compounds at the bottom of the page. However, the classics are in an unusual code setting, so I couldn't get them to match up with Wenlin properly. I'm still working on it. Having said that, I think that one still needs a course in basic Chinese grammar, comparing both classical and modern use. The first section of " Chinese Medical Chinese " by Nigel Wiseman and Feng Ye is a nice text for that. I don't think it advisable to go into this type of translation attempt 'cold'. On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 12:07 PM, marnae ergil wrote: > We tried to use software to translate Jiao's first > book - what we found was that it worked to an extent > but it also created some weird problems. And for > someone who does not know Chinese the problems would > be worse - when are two character supposed to combined > as a compound (which changes their meaning) and when > are they used individually, when is something > Classical and when is it modern (again presenting > different meanings). It may save some dictionary > time, but I really don't think it would make that much > different to the beginning reader of Chinese and might > confuse them more. If you have a good dictionary, you > have the ability to scroll down and see what compounds > are available etc. Does Wen Lin Do this? > > Marnae > --- < wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> " Bob Damone " <bdamone >>> Mon May 12, 2003 10:47:31 AM US/Pacific >>> " '' " < >>> RE: software >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Yes.The scanner came with software that already >> had this ability. I >>> simply had to set the OCR to Chinese instead of >> English. >>> >>> The sequence is as follows: >>> >>> 1. I scan the Chinese text as editable text with >> the OCR set to Chinese >>> 2. I save the Scanned document as a plain text >> document >>> 3. I open it from within Wenlin >>> 4. Wenlin's auto lookup function is active when >> you pass the cursor over >>> the character >>> >>> This process primarily saves some dictionary look >> up time, which can be >>> quite burdensome in Chinese if you don't know the >> sound of that >>> corresponds to a given character. Without the >> sound, one has to go the >>> stroke counting way, which takes lots of time. >>> >>> It would be interesting to see if one with minimal >> Chinese language >>> training could gain significant access to material >> by using this method. >>> I use it primarily as an aid to translation. >>> >>> I am not sure how this process would be different >> for a MAC. The above >>> assumes that I am using Windows XP, which has >> built-in Chinese language >>> ability that one simply has to enable in the >> language preferences >>> somewhere. Jason B. knows much more about the nuts >> and bolts. >>> >>> >> >> Chinese Herbs >> >> voice: >> fax: >> >> " Great spirits have always found violent opposition >> from mediocre >> minds " -- Albert Einstein >> > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 Marnae's correct. Identification of compound terms is crucial to correct translation. In my experience helping others to learn to translate, failure to identify compound terms is one of the most common mistakes of beginners. Bob , marnae ergil <marnae@p...> wrote: > We tried to use software to translate Jiao's first > book - what we found was that it worked to an extent > but it also created some weird problems. And for > someone who does not know Chinese the problems would > be worse - when are two character supposed to combined > as a compound (which changes their meaning) and when > are they used individually, when is something > Classical and when is it modern (again presenting > different meanings). It may save some dictionary > time, but I really don't think it would make that much > different to the beginning reader of Chinese and might > confuse them more. If you have a good dictionary, you > have the ability to scroll down and see what compounds > are available etc. Does Wen Lin Do this? > > Marnae > --- <@i...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > " Bob Damone " <bdamone@e...> > > > Mon May 12, 2003 10:47:31 AM US/Pacific > > > " '' " <@i...> > > > RE: software > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > Yes.The scanner came with software that already > > had this ability. I > > > simply had to set the OCR to Chinese instead of > > English. > > > > > > The sequence is as follows: > > > > > > 1. I scan the Chinese text as editable text with > > the OCR set to Chinese > > > 2. I save the Scanned document as a plain text > > document > > > 3. I open it from within Wenlin > > > 4. Wenlin's auto lookup function is active when > > you pass the cursor over > > > the character > > > > > > This process primarily saves some dictionary look > > up time, which can be > > > quite burdensome in Chinese if you don't know the > > sound of that > > > corresponds to a given character. Without the > > sound, one has to go the > > > stroke counting way, which takes lots of time. > > > > > > It would be interesting to see if one with minimal > > Chinese language > > > training could gain significant access to material > > by using this method. > > > I use it primarily as an aid to translation. > > > > > > I am not sure how this process would be different > > for a MAC. The above > > > assumes that I am using Windows XP, which has > > built-in Chinese language > > > ability that one simply has to enable in the > > language preferences > > > somewhere. Jason B. knows much more about the nuts > > and bolts. > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbs > > > > voice: > > fax: > > > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition > > from mediocre > > minds " -- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 Bob, Marnae, and others hanging on to the language and translation threads... > Marnae's correct. Identification of compound terms is crucial to > correct translation. In my experience helping others to learn to > translate, failure to identify compound terms is one of the most > common mistakes of beginners. > > Bob Identification of compound terms is indeed a critical aspect of reading, understanding, interpreting and translating Chinese texts... ....one of many. I do not disagree with the development and use of automata and other gadgets to facilitate access to data and information and am always on the lookout for shortcuts and breakthroughs. My earlier post was not intended to discourage anyone from exploration. It was simply, well, what it said, i.e., an admonition that we consider the consequences of automating intelligence related to Chinese medical texts along with the consequences of automating ignorance. Jason Robertson and I were just talking yesterday about the importance of translation standards with respect to the actual performance of translation work. As I have always said, such standards...which are nothing other than tools...are important early steps in the process. But they are not the process. They are tools that we use in performing the work. This, of course, begs the underlying question: What is the work? The work, I believe, can be described as learning how to think and solve problems using a whole complement of tools and a spectrum of modes of thought that are reflected in a variety of medical texts and other forms of transmission that have been at this work for some time now. For whatever it's worth, my advice to those who examine and experiment with the various gizmos that come and go is to assess them in terms of whether or not they facilitate the accomplishment of this work. In my own struggles to learn the Chinese language, I have found that I get more benefit...i.e., more work done from learning to write a single character than from watching dozens of them flash past on a computer screen. But I am the first to admit that we are all different when it comes to how we prefer to process data and heartily endorse the development and new tools to facilitate the whole process. Ken PS. For those who are familiar with Dave Weininger's electronic dictionary of Chinese medicine, I just want to repeat something that he said to me once when he was demonstrating it to me for the first time at his kitchen table. I asked him how he accomplished some of the efficiencies that obviously constitute the engine that runs the eDCM, and he replied, " I treat a large amount of data as a small amount of data. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 > > > > It would be interesting to see if one with minimal Chinese language > > training could gain significant access to material by using this method. Just to elaborate on this concept... There are 2 1st year TCm students that work in our office (pharmacy) that with 10 weeks (1 lesson a week) of CHinese language and wenlin training were able to rough out a fairly difficult fuqingzhu GYN passage. IT is quite easy... One could easily access a materia medica in no time... > > I use it primarily as an aid to translation. AS do I... > > > > I am not sure how this process would be different for a MAC. The above > > assumes that I am using Windows XP, which has built-in Chinese language > > ability that one simply has to enable in the language preferences > > somewhere. Jason B. knows much more about the nuts and bolts. Well... the only thing MAC would need is an OCR... but I know that one can easily download chiense text files (internet or whereever) and paste them into wenlin on PC or MAC> and there you go... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 , " Bob Flaws " < pemachophel2001> wrote: If you have a good dictionary, you > > have the ability to scroll down and see what compounds > > are available etc. Does Wen Lin Do this? It sure does and its a lot easier than a dictionary for me. Because wenlin can look at the character before and after, it limits your choices to the actual compounds present, not have to scroll through every compound possible. You cannot use wenlin successfully for translation unless you know the basic rules of chinese. However it appears to be almost as comprehensive and much easier than a dictionary. You definitely need to make decisions about whether terms should be interpreted as combinations or individually. However in a selection Bob Damone sent me on the san jiao, much of this appears context dependent. So it becomes evident that something is nonsensical unless one identifies a compund term. This appears to be a tool for translation and education, not an automated translator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 , " " < @h...> wrote: > > Just to elaborate on this concept... There are 2 1st year TCm > students that work in our office (pharmacy) that with 10 weeks (1 > lesson a week) of CHinese language and wenlin training were able to > rough out a fairly difficult fuqingzhu GYN passage. IT is quite > easy... One could easily access a materia medica in no time... that's what I thought. Damone says you are really the master of this process. I think how much one gets out of this depends on one's prior knowledge of TCM. If I see san jiao in text, context should tell me this is the triple burner and not three other sorts of burning spaces. I know it gets more difficult with complexity of the original work, but hopefully one's skills will improve over time, too On the other hand, I have no doubt that a fully automatic translator would just yield gibberish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 If you are mainly herbally based then Batch Master practice management software is ideal to track all your medicines/stock/customers etc. You can also enter treatment sessions as well and import the customer information into MS outlook for appointments if needed. Please contact me off list: info for further details or you can get a free download at the following link: http://www.herbalmedicineuk.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=601 List of users growing slowly.......... Lorraine Hodgkinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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