subs for tiger bone and bear gallbladder for hit medicine

[Guest guest]

a martial artist contacted me today requesting that i fill some 600y old hit

med px. these are ext. liniments, soaked in ohol, such a vodka. meds

include tiger bone and bear gallbladder. i'm looking for appropriate subs.

i thinking xu duan for tiger bone, and possibly gou teng for bear

gallbladder, based on herb actions. any ideas would be appreciated.

 

thx in adv,

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Most don't use tiger bone or bear bile for regular hit liniment but

it is found in Iron Palm training. If this is what the script is for

then:

Qian Nian Jian for Tiger Bone

and Nui Dan with Huang Lian for Bear Bile.

 

Kelvin

1stdefense.info

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett,

MS, LAc " wrote:

>

> a martial artist contacted me today requesting that i fill some

600y old hit

> med px. these are ext. liniments, soaked in ohol, such a vodka.

meds

> include tiger bone and bear gallbladder. i'm looking for

appropriate subs.

> i thinking xu duan for tiger bone, and possibly gou teng for bear

> gallbladder, based on herb actions. any ideas would be appreciated.

>

> thx in adv,

>

> --

> Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

> Oriental Medicine

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Asheville Center For

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> kbartlett

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kelvin, & All,

 

> Most don't use tiger bone or bear bile for regular hit liniment but it

> is found in Iron Palm training.

 

Hugu-Tiger Bone is BANNED under Endangered Species laws.

Xiongdan-Bear Bile is BANNED under Animal Cruelty / Welfare laws.

 

Ethical practitioners (and law-abiding citizens) should avoid and report any

products that are said to contain those products.

 

> If this is what the script is for then: Qiannianjian for Tiger Bone and

> Nuidan (typo: should be NIUDAN) with Huanglian for Bear Bile. Kelvin

 

Presumably, Qiannianjian substitutes for the " Dispel Wind Damp " action of

Hugu and Huanglian substitutes for the " Clear Heat " action of Xiongdan?

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Pinyin Name: Qiannianjian (=1000 years of health)

 

Latin Name: Rz Homalomenae Occultae

 

English Name: Obscured Homalomena Rz

 

Hb Class: Dispel Wind Damp

 

Nature: Warm; Acrid; Bitter/Sweet; mild

 

Channels: LV; KI

 

Dose: As Dec: 4.5-10g

 

Actions: Dispel Wind Damp; Free Channel Qi; Move Qi in Channels;

Strengthen Sinew & Bone

 

Uses: Channel Qi Obstructed; Wind Cold Damp Bi; Arthritis dt Wind Cold

Damp w arthralgia; rheumatic arthritis; arthralgia~all joints; Waist-Knee Cold

Pain, Lower Limbs & Legs restricted & spastic & numb; Wind Damp Bi

syndrome w loin & knees~cold sensation & pain & lower limbs~spasm/

numb; loin pain & weakness, knee pain & weakness, limbs~lower

weakness/numbness

 

Combinations: Qiannianjian (Jiu, wine-soaked) is in a formula w Hugu,

Chuanniuxi & Digupi

 

Cautions: No known drug interactions or adverse side-effects but CI in Yin

Xu

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Pinyin Name: Xiongdan; Heixiongdan (Black Bear GB); Huangxiongdan

(Yellow Bear GB) [bANNED PRODUCT]

 

Latin Name: Fel Ursi; Fel Ursi arctos; Fel Selenactos thibetani

 

English Name: Bear Bile; Part used: dried Bile / Dried Bear GB (GB powder

used more often)

 

Nature: Cold; Bitter /Bitter-Sweet; NON-TOXIC (Wudu)

 

Channels: LV; GB; HT; SJM-SP-ST; LI

 

Dose: Oral use: As Dec, Pill / Powder: 0.2-1g; As Topical: dissolve ground

powder qs /mix in ointment & apply to sores & carbuncles /

abscesses~painful (Chuang Yongzhongtong)/include in eyedrops

 

Actions: Clear Heat; Resolve Toxin; Calm Wind; Ease Spasm; Calm

Spasm; Clear LV (Heat); Brighten Eyes; Parasiticide

 

Uses: LV Heat Blazing, Heat Extreme Generating Wind dt Fright Wind,

paediatric convulsions£¬epilepsy, tics / twitching, icterus dt Heat, icteric

hepatitis, Summerheat Diarrhoea /Dysentery; paediatric convulsions dt

fright, paediatric malnutrition dt digestive upsets & parasitism, roundworm

pain; throat Bi / Obstruction / paralysis, boils & malignant ulcer; nose sores,

nose eroded; eye~red, swollen & pain, eye opacity, feather membrane;

traumatic external injuries, fall & hit injuries & fractures

 

CI (prohibited for use in) Xu Cold Pattern

 

Best regards,

 

HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel: (H): +353-(0); VOIP Number: +353-1482-7068;

Tel: (M): +353-(0)

<

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt woman doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Phil

 

You do know that this is an external formula and things like, " CI due

to yin xu " don't apply. You can sub Zhu Dan for bear, aswell.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Kelvin

1stdefense.info

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

< wrote:

>

> Hi Kelvin, & All,

>

> > Most don't use tiger bone or bear bile for regular hit liniment

but it

> > is found in Iron Palm training.

>

> Hugu-Tiger Bone is BANNED under Endangered Species laws.

> Xiongdan-Bear Bile is BANNED under Animal Cruelty / Welfare laws.

>

> Ethical practitioners (and law-abiding citizens) should avoid and

report any

> products that are said to contain those products.

>

> > If this is what the script is for then: Qiannianjian for Tiger

Bone and

> > Nuidan (typo: should be NIUDAN) with Huanglian for Bear Bile.

Kelvin

>

> Presumably, Qiannianjian substitutes for the " Dispel Wind Damp "

action of

> Hugu and Huanglian substitutes for the " Clear Heat " action of

Xiongdan?

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> Pinyin Name: Qiannianjian (=1000 years of health)

>

> Latin Name: Rz Homalomenae Occultae

>

> English Name: Obscured Homalomena Rz

>

> Hb Class: Dispel Wind Damp

>

> Nature: Warm; Acrid; Bitter/Sweet; mild

>

> Channels: LV; KI

>

> Dose: As Dec: 4.5-10g

>

> Actions: Dispel Wind Damp; Free Channel Qi; Move Qi in Channels;

> Strengthen Sinew & Bone

>

> Uses: Channel Qi Obstructed; Wind Cold Damp Bi; Arthritis dt Wind

Cold

> Damp w arthralgia; rheumatic arthritis; arthralgia~all joints;

Waist-Knee Cold

> Pain, Lower Limbs & Legs restricted & spastic & numb; Wind Damp Bi

> syndrome w loin & knees~cold sensation & pain & lower limbs~spasm/

> numb; loin pain & weakness, knee pain & weakness, limbs~lower

> weakness/numbness

>

> Combinations: Qiannianjian (Jiu, wine-soaked) is in a formula w

Hugu,

> Chuanniuxi & Digupi

>

> Cautions: No known drug interactions or adverse side-effects but CI

in Yin

> Xu

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> Pinyin Name: Xiongdan; Heixiongdan (Black Bear GB); Huangxiongdan

> (Yellow Bear GB) [bANNED PRODUCT]

>

> Latin Name: Fel Ursi; Fel Ursi arctos; Fel Selenactos thibetani

>

> English Name: Bear Bile; Part used: dried Bile / Dried Bear GB (GB

powder

> used more often)

>

> Nature: Cold; Bitter /Bitter-Sweet; NON-TOXIC (Wudu)

>

> Channels: LV; GB; HT; SJM-SP-ST; LI

>

> Dose: Oral use: As Dec, Pill / Powder: 0.2-1g; As Topical: dissolve

ground

> powder qs /mix in ointment & apply to sores & carbuncles /

> abscesses~painful (Chuang Yongzhongtong)/include in eyedrops

>

> Actions: Clear Heat; Resolve Toxin; Calm Wind; Ease Spasm; Calm

> Spasm; Clear LV (Heat); Brighten Eyes; Parasiticide

>

> Uses: LV Heat Blazing, Heat Extreme Generating Wind dt Fright Wind,

> paediatric convulsions£¬epilepsy, tics / twitching, icterus dt

Heat, icteric

> hepatitis, Summerheat Diarrhoea /Dysentery; paediatric convulsions

dt

> fright, paediatric malnutrition dt digestive upsets & parasitism,

roundworm

> pain; throat Bi / Obstruction / paralysis, boils & malignant ulcer;

nose sores,

> nose eroded; eye~red, swollen & pain, eye opacity, feather

membrane;

> traumatic external injuries, fall & hit injuries & fractures

>

> CI (prohibited for use in) Xu Cold Pattern

>

> Best regards,

>

> HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Tel: (H): +353-(0); VOIP Number: +353-1482-7068;

> Tel: (M): +353-(0)

> <

>

>

>

> " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt woman doing

it " -

> Chinese Proverb

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You could use synthetic udca as a substitute for bear gall, also

called acti-gall(made from chicken and pig gall) as a substitute, its

prescription only I think here in US, although you can order it from

China or Korea...I think this stuff is a great health food and I am

dead set against killing endangered bears. I think the synthetic

version is a godsend with varied medical applications...

 

 

Chinese Medicine ,

" acupuncturebeverlyhills " <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

>

> Phil

>

> You do know that this is an external formula and things like, " CI due

> to yin xu " don't apply. You can sub Zhu Dan for bear, aswell.

>

> Thanks for your input.

>

> Kelvin

> 1stdefense.info

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " "

> <@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Kelvin, & All,

> >

> > > Most don't use tiger bone or bear bile for regular hit liniment

> but it

> > > is found in Iron Palm training.

> >

> > Hugu-Tiger Bone is BANNED under Endangered Species laws.

> > Xiongdan-Bear Bile is BANNED under Animal Cruelty / Welfare laws.

> >

> > Ethical practitioners (and law-abiding citizens) should avoid and

> report any

> > products that are said to contain those products.

> >

> > > If this is what the script is for then: Qiannianjian for Tiger

> Bone and

> > > Nuidan (typo: should be NIUDAN) with Huanglian for Bear Bile.

> Kelvin

> >

> > Presumably, Qiannianjian substitutes for the " Dispel Wind Damp "

> action of

> > Hugu and Huanglian substitutes for the " Clear Heat " action of

> Xiongdan?

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >

> > Pinyin Name: Qiannianjian (=1000 years of health)

> >

> > Latin Name: Rz Homalomenae Occultae

> >

> > English Name: Obscured Homalomena Rz

> >

> > Hb Class: Dispel Wind Damp

> >

> > Nature: Warm; Acrid; Bitter/Sweet; mild

> >

> > Channels: LV; KI

> >

> > Dose: As Dec: 4.5-10g

> >

> > Actions: Dispel Wind Damp; Free Channel Qi; Move Qi in Channels;

> > Strengthen Sinew & Bone

> >

> > Uses: Channel Qi Obstructed; Wind Cold Damp Bi; Arthritis dt Wind

> Cold

> > Damp w arthralgia; rheumatic arthritis; arthralgia~all joints;

> Waist-Knee Cold

> > Pain, Lower Limbs & Legs restricted & spastic & numb; Wind Damp Bi

> > syndrome w loin & knees~cold sensation & pain & lower limbs~spasm/

> > numb; loin pain & weakness, knee pain & weakness, limbs~lower

> > weakness/numbness

> >

> > Combinations: Qiannianjian (Jiu, wine-soaked) is in a formula w

> Hugu,

> > Chuanniuxi & Digupi

> >

> > Cautions: No known drug interactions or adverse side-effects but CI

> in Yin

> > Xu

> >

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> >

> > Pinyin Name: Xiongdan; Heixiongdan (Black Bear GB); Huangxiongdan

> > (Yellow Bear GB) [bANNED PRODUCT]

> >

> > Latin Name: Fel Ursi; Fel Ursi arctos; Fel Selenactos thibetani

> >

> > English Name: Bear Bile; Part used: dried Bile / Dried Bear GB (GB

> powder

> > used more often)

> >

> > Nature: Cold; Bitter /Bitter-Sweet; NON-TOXIC (Wudu)

> >

> > Channels: LV; GB; HT; SJM-SP-ST; LI

> >

> > Dose: Oral use: As Dec, Pill / Powder: 0.2-1g; As Topical: dissolve

> ground

> > powder qs /mix in ointment & apply to sores & carbuncles /

> > abscesses~painful (Chuang Yongzhongtong)/include in eyedrops

> >

> > Actions: Clear Heat; Resolve Toxin; Calm Wind; Ease Spasm; Calm

> > Spasm; Clear LV (Heat); Brighten Eyes; Parasiticide

> >

> > Uses: LV Heat Blazing, Heat Extreme Generating Wind dt Fright Wind,

> > paediatric convulsions£¬epilepsy, tics / twitching, icterus dt

> Heat, icteric

> > hepatitis, Summerheat Diarrhoea /Dysentery; paediatric convulsions

> dt

> > fright, paediatric malnutrition dt digestive upsets & parasitism,

> roundworm

> > pain; throat Bi / Obstruction / paralysis, boils & malignant ulcer;

> nose sores,

> > nose eroded; eye~red, swollen & pain, eye opacity, feather

> membrane;

> > traumatic external injuries, fall & hit injuries & fractures

> >

> > CI (prohibited for use in) Xu Cold Pattern

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> > Tel: (H): +353-(0); VOIP Number: +353-1482-7068;

> > Tel: (M): +353-(0)

> > <@>

> >

> >

> >

> > " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt woman doing

> it " -

> > Chinese Proverb

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Kelvin, & All,

 

> Phil You do know that this is an external formula and things like, " CI

> due to yin xu " don't apply.

 

Sure; the CI refers to internal (oral) use.

 

> You can sub Zhudan for Xiongdan, as well.

 

Yes, and probably with Niudan, Niuhuang.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Wednesday 03 January 2007 20:30, wrote:

 

Hi Kath!

 

" Hit " medicine? I have not heard that term. If it is not a secret, please

explain it a little more. Thanks.

 

> a martial artist contacted me today requesting that i fill some 600y old

> hit med px. these are ext. liniments, soaked in ohol, such a vodka. meds

> include tiger bone and bear gallbladder. i'm looking for appropriate subs.

> i thinking xu duan for tiger bone, and possibly gou teng for bear

> gallbladder, based on herb actions. any ideas would be appreciated.

>

> thx in adv,

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petetheisen wrote:

>

> " Hit " medicine? I have not heard that term. If it is not a secret,

please

> explain it a little more. Thanks.

>

 

 

Look up Dit Da Jow or Tieh Ta Chiao, there are many types.

 

 

Kelvin

1stdefense.info

[Guest guest]

On Saturday 06 January 2007 22:56, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

>

> <petetheisen wrote:

> > " Hit " medicine? I have not heard that term. If it is not a secret,

>

> please

>

> > explain it a little more. Thanks.

>

> Look up Dit Da Jow or Tieh Ta Chiao, there are many types.

 

Hi Kelvin!

 

Interesting that these are used this way, I am somewhat insulated from that

world. I have been prescribing tiger balm for arthritis and the like with

good result, but, of course, I have been serving a different demographic.

 

I have a very pretty bottle of Tieh Ta Chiao somewhere, don't know where it is

right now, which I kept in my clinic for decoration. I don't think it has

ever been opened.

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

One of my teachers explained the term " hit medicine " to us. He said that

martial arts instructors often created their own recipes for linaments so that

when their students suffered injuries, i.e. got hit, while practicing, there

would be something to assist with the healing. I use Dit Da Jow and Sen Jow in

my practice a lot. Sometimes someone will come in with an injury that's puffy

and swollen and I don't want to needle into that area. (My favorite teacher

always said not to " hit the baby when it's already crying. " ) I'll needle the

opposite knee, shoulder or whatever, and put on several applications of Dit Dah

Jow to the injured area to more gently move the qi and blood there. I also used

Sen Jow (which is more gel like and is warming) for cupping. For instance,

someone might have muscle spasms in the back. I'll apply Sen Jow and then move

the cup over that area to bring qi and blood locally and superficially to the

muscles. Tae Ta Chu (?spelling?) is similar to Dit Dah Jow. I find these

products to be very useful in my work and keep a supply on hand for patients to

purchase and use at home. There are a lot of soccer supply bags in my town that

now have Dit Dah Jow on hand.

Peace, Liz Casey

 

-

Pete Theisen

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:59 AM

Re: Re: subs for tiger bone and bear gallbladder for hit

medicine

 

 

On Saturday 06 January 2007 22:56, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

>

> <petetheisen wrote:

> > " Hit " medicine? I have not heard that term. If it is not a secret,

>

> please

>

> > explain it a little more. Thanks.

>

> Look up Dit Da Jow or Tieh Ta Chiao, there are many types.

 

Hi Kelvin!

 

Interesting that these are used this way, I am somewhat insulated from that

world. I have been prescribing tiger balm for arthritis and the like with

good result, but, of course, I have been serving a different demographic.

 

I have a very pretty bottle of Tieh Ta Chiao somewhere, don't know where it is

right now, which I kept in my clinic for decoration. I don't think it has

ever been opened.

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 07 January 2007 08:52, Liz wrote:

 

Hi Liz!

 

Very informative post, thanks.

 

> One of my teachers explained the term " hit medicine " to us. He said that

> martial arts instructors often created their own recipes for linaments so

> that when their students suffered injuries, i.e. got hit, while practicing,

> there would be something to assist with the healing. I use Dit Da Jow and

> Sen Jow in my practice a lot. Sometimes someone will come in with an

> injury that's puffy and swollen and I don't want to needle into that area.

> (My favorite teacher always said not to " hit the baby when it's already

> crying. " ) I'll needle the opposite knee, shoulder or whatever, and put on

> several applications of Dit Dah Jow to the injured area to more gently move

> the qi and blood there. I also used Sen Jow (which is more gel like and is

> warming) for cupping. For instance, someone might have muscle spasms in

> the back. I'll apply Sen Jow and then move the cup over that area to bring

> qi and blood locally and superficially to the muscles. Tae Ta Chu

> (?spelling?) is similar to Dit Dah Jow.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/