Guest guest Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 I'm just wondering what you all think about adding material to the tcmpedia site which may be considered intellectual property by the proprietor/ family/ group. For instance, I was thinking about adding material taught by Jeffrey Yuen, but remembered that Jeffrey Yuen or others may be sensitive to the material getting out to the public without a price and without permission. Considering Jeffrey's transcripts and audio tapes/cds are available online at several sites, he may not care if the public has access to his teachings. But, I wonder if he or any other presenter gets a cut/ commission from http://www.conferencerecording.com ? Other than whatever fees they receive from the conference itself. Out of respect, I guess the only way to know is to ask him/them. The same thing goes for Richard Tan, Nguyen Van Nghi's work, Master Tung (Dong) etc. What are your thoughts about this? -- 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem.' Jiddu Krishnamurti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 HI John I couldn't agree with you more. I have thought about raising this issue before... <johnkokko wrote: I'm just wondering what you all think about adding material to the tcmpedia site which may be considered intellectual property by the proprietor/ family/ group. I know a teacher whose information has been included in a popular student resource sold nationally. She has expressed ;frustration that her knowledge is being sold without her consent or compensation. I think that everything added should be done with consent as well as proper citation so as to avoid offending the source. Stephen Woodley LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 On Monday 01 January 2007 13:56, steve woodley wrote: > HI John > I couldn't agree with you more. I have thought about raising this issue > before... > > I'm just wondering what you all think about adding material to the > tcmpedia site which may be considered intellectual property by the > proprietor/ family/ group. > > I know a teacher whose information has been included in a popular student > resource sold nationally. She has expressed ;frustration that her knowledge > is being sold without her consent or compensation. I think that everything > added should be done with consent as well as proper citation so as to avoid > offending the source. Hi Steve! My two cents: Use a brief quote and a link to the author's website or to where the book can be purchased. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:06:48 –0800, " " <johnkokko wrote: >>…adding material to the tcmpedia site which may be considered intellectual property… Copyright is definitely an issue to be clear about in building any online repository. (Another reason, as Pete Theisen mentions, to use links, when possible, rather than importing material.) In the case of Jeffery Yuen, he does not write, per se [sic], as he adheres to an oral tradition, though there may be one or two documents he's written, and on rare occasions he distributes copies of overhead-projector notes to the class. He uses mental and written outlines in lecturing, but weaves in improvised elaborations and diversions constantly. Often these are among the best parts of the lecture, where he's responding, interacting with the listeners' feedback. He said once that as a child he functioned as a medium (I think in some Daoist capacity). Information and associations come forth spontaneously when he speaks. Sometimes he won't recall exactly what he said previously when asked about it. Not surprising, given the sheer volume of what he expresses. When asked once about publishing (notes or transcripts from) his material, he responded by leaving it up to the judgement of the writer. (I would venture that it's good for anyone to make clear that anything publicly spoken or written that's attributed to someone else should be explicitly noted as ones own interpretation thereof.) In general I think he accepts remuneration for talks, and leaves the use of the material is up to the sponsor. The American University of Complementary Medicine is very protective of copyright on media transmission of talks done for them. No recording (other than their own) is permitted, and the making of literal transcripts (from recordings distributed to students in their programs) is explicitly discouraged. Recordings by Conference Recording Service Inc. carry no overt copyright notice. Their material is largely from CJOM, Pacific Symposium, etc. conferences, where the sponsors have paid him. I don't know what the arrangement is between CRS and the conference sponsors. I have made literal transcripts of some of their tapes. Some transcripts (of non-copyrighted lectures) are available from Herbalroom.com. Many Chinese teachers seem to also rely mainly on oral transmission, or at least seem give it a special priority. Although Richard Tan writes books, he doesn't like to give lecture handouts. Dr. John Shen wrote a slim volume, but that was probably at the bequest of, or actually transcribed by a follower; otherwise he loved to talk. There is clearly something different in Chinese culture in this regard. As is well publicized, the market in China for software, books, CDs and DVDs (music, movies, etc.) is 80-90% bootlegged. Despite repeated promises to fix that, the Chinese government appears unable or unwilling to actually do anything substantial to counter it. Although much of the bootlegging is financially motivated, there must be some deeper cultural attitude underlying it. In the West we have a saying to the effect that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery/compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Chinese Medicine , " " <johnkokko wrote: > > I'm just wondering what you all think about adding material to the tcmpedia > site > which may be considered intellectual property by the proprietor/ family/ > group. Simple, no permission no posting. Copyright in the US is implied by default. Even though it is sad that culturally there is an idea of " proprietary medicine " from the orient that affects CM in the US as well, there is no question that their wishes must be respected with in the bounds of law and ethics. I once joked with one of my mentors that if not for the government's creation of TCM the proprietary nature of the Chinese would have wiped CM from China by now. In regards to links vs. content, I disagree completely. The idea is to create a consolidated source of information that can eventually be managed by editors, etc. This is not possible with links. I am sure though that there will be ready donors of knowledge just by asking for permission and quoting with attributions and links. David Botton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 There is the Jacobs book, which integrates a standard clinical handbook with information from Yuen. Yuen has written the introduction so this was obviously done with permission if not blessings. I think in general copyright for a website should follow that of an academic paper. You can quote with attributes but not use large portions of writings. If you want to take the time to write about a person's published concepts or information then this also is fair. Chinese Medicine , " chris_macie " < wrote: > > Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:06:48 ?0800, " " <johnkokko wrote: > >>…adding material to the tcmpedia site which may be considered > intellectual property? > > Copyright is definitely an issue to be clear about in building any > online repository. (Another reason, as Pete Theisen mentions, to use > links, when possible, rather than importing material.) > > In the case of Jeffery Yuen, he does not write, per se [sic], as he > adheres to an oral tradition, though there may be one or two documents > he's written, and on rare occasions he distributes copies of > overhead-projector notes to the class. ------------ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 On Tuesday 02 January 2007 08:41, David Botton wrote: <snip> > In regards to links vs. content, I disagree completely. The idea is to > create a consolidated source of information that can eventually be managed > by editors, etc. This is not possible with links. I am sure though that > there will be ready donors of knowledge just by asking for permission and > quoting with attributions and links. Hi David! Don't " disagree completely " , we are actually saying the same thing! Go ahead with your content and even a little quote here and there of " copyrighted " material. Just make sure whenever you quote you give proper attribution and a link if the source has a web page. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Chris, you mentioned John Shen's book. A gem, especially the case studies. The one I read was hand-typed by Leon Hammer? with a hand-glued blue paper cover. Hard to find I'm sure. I believe that you're well-versed in the Leon Hammer/ Shen corpus of knowledge. In a million words or less, can anyone share a story of the late great doctor, John Shen... What I've gleaned from second-hand reports was that he could diagnose 99/100 people correctly (biomedically) from the pulse. The one patient he couldn't was on too many drugs,which interfered with the qi/xue dynamic too intensely. By the way, this is a great line, " In the West we have a saying to the effect that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery/compliment. " Thanks. On 1/1/07, chris_macie < wrote: > > Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:06:48 –0800, " " <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > >>…adding material to the tcmpedia site which may be considered > intellectual property… > > Copyright is definitely an issue to be clear about in building any > online repository. (Another reason, as Pete Theisen mentions, to use > links, when possible, rather than importing material.) > > In the case of Jeffery Yuen, he does not write, per se [sic], as he > adheres to an oral tradition, though there may be one or two documents > he's written, and on rare occasions he distributes copies of > overhead-projector notes to the class. He uses mental and written > outlines in lecturing, but weaves in improvised elaborations and > diversions constantly. Often these are among the best parts of the > lecture, where he's responding, interacting with the listeners' > feedback. He said once that as a child he functioned as a medium (I > think in some Daoist capacity). Information and associations come > forth spontaneously when he speaks. Sometimes he won't recall exactly > what he said previously when asked about it. Not surprising, given the > sheer volume of what he expresses. > > When asked once about publishing (notes or transcripts from) his > material, he responded by leaving it up to the judgement of the > writer. (I would venture that it's good for anyone to make clear that > anything publicly spoken or written that's attributed to someone else > should be explicitly noted as ones own interpretation thereof.) > > In general I think he accepts remuneration for talks, and leaves the > use of the material is up to the sponsor. The American University of > Complementary Medicine is very protective of copyright on media > transmission of talks done for them. No recording (other than their > own) is permitted, and the making of literal transcripts (from > recordings distributed to students in their programs) is explicitly > discouraged. > > Recordings by Conference Recording Service Inc. carry no overt > copyright notice. Their material is largely from CJOM, Pacific > Symposium, etc. conferences, where the sponsors have paid him. I don't > know what the arrangement is between CRS and the conference sponsors. > I have made literal transcripts of some of their tapes. Some > transcripts (of non-copyrighted lectures) are available from > Herbalroom.com. > > Many Chinese teachers seem to also rely mainly on oral transmission, > or at least seem give it a special priority. Although Richard Tan > writes books, he doesn't like to give lecture handouts. Dr. John Shen > wrote a slim volume, but that was probably at the bequest of, or > actually transcribed by a follower; otherwise he loved to talk. > > There is clearly something different in Chinese culture in this > regard. As is well publicized, the market in China for software, > books, CDs and DVDs (music, movies, etc.) is 80-90% bootlegged. > Despite repeated promises to fix that, the Chinese government appears > unable or unwilling to actually do anything substantial to counter it. > Although much of the bootlegging is financially motivated, there must > be some deeper cultural attitude underlying it. In the West we have a > saying to the effect that plagiarism is the highest form of > flattery/compliment. > > > > > -- 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem.' Jiddu Krishnamurti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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