RE: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxide and natural digestive aids

December 21, 2006

Dear Mike,

That is a fascinating tidbit about catabolase found in staph breaking down

H2O2. What a wonderful method to detect if a patient has a staph infection. Do

you know what the specific dose and protocol is? As far as your question

about traditional foods used to promote intestinal floral balance, a great book

is " Foundations of Health, the Liver and Digestive Herbal " by Christopher Hobbs.

Hobbs is one of those well rounded people who has an extensive background in

Western Herbology as well as being a licensed acupuncturist. The book is a

easy read, and is chalk full of information, Western and Eastern, biochemistry,

anatomy and physiology and herbology about the liver and digestive tract.

Anyway, in it has almost 50 pages on the topic of probiotics and natural lactic

acid producing bacteria, as well as recipes for making your own. I don't know

if he's revised it, and much new info has come to the fore since he published it

in '92, but I really like it and highly

recommend it.

Sincerely,

Yehuda

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

I have taken this in the past as well. Recently, my micro/immunology

class discussed another aspect relevent to this issue. The enzyme catabolase,

breaks down hydrogen peroxide, and is found in staph varieties not strep. So

this enzyme can be used to decide if bacteria are of either of these varieties.

This might help in changing the internal flora/fauna of the gut. I would like to

hear more discussions on the traditional ideas related to bacteria, found in

most common fermented foods, that were consumed regularly by many traditional

societies. Anyone care to share info on this aspect of Earth?

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

: :

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:00:33 -0800Re: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxide

Clarissa,My impression is that it should not be used like a nutritional

supplement, but rather like a medicine. As a point of comparison can one use a

qi or blood moving herb over a long period of time if it's not indicated? It

will damage the spleen, and scatter the qi. The same here, IMO. I would like to

learn more about it and use it for patients as a medicine, not as a vitamin.All

the best,YehudaRissa Guest <clarissadawn1 wrote:Some friends and

I tryed it after reading it in his book. I ordered it from the local health food

store. I started at one drop every other day and worked my way up to 2-3 drops a

day or so I don't exactly remember but it wasn't very much. I was traveling to a

seminar and got the absolute worst pain in my stomach I have ever had. It was

awful. I don't know how my friends made out, maybe they abandoned the idea when

they saw how sick I was. I never asked but I know they didn't stay with it.

Clarissa -

Turiya Hill Chinese Medicine Wednesday,

December 20, 2006 9:00 AMRe: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxidePaul

Pichford's book is full of information....some of it very sound and

fundamental.....but how many patients does he treat every week/month/year etc.

to validate the information he disseminates?-

yehuda frischman Chinese Medicine Sent:

Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:53 AMH2O2- Hydrogen peroxideDear

Chris and all,Sorry about the confusion. This is what I do know: 35% food grade

Hydrogen peroxide supports and moves the qi and blood. I would guess that it

also clears toxic heat. However, as the article Chris linked to indicated, it is

controversial. The impression I have from what I have read, is that when used in

very pure non-industrial form, and when diluted, it is a powerful

anti-parasitic, anti-fungal, anti-viral, anti-biotic and anti-neoplastic.

But again it must be pure, it must be diluted, and you had better know what you

are doing when using it. That is why I ask if anyone has had experience using

it, and if they have a good source.Thanks again,Yehuda

< wrote:At 10:21 PM 12/19/2006, you wrote:>Oops! meant to ask

about hydrogen peroxide, not hydrochloric acid!> Dear friends and colleagues,>>

I know that it's not a TCM therapy, but Paul Pitchford mentions > it in his book

so I'll ask anyway: Have any of you ever used food > grade 35% Hydrochloric Acid

therapeutically with your > patients? Does anyone have a reliable source?Good

basic WM/chemical information on H2O2 in Wikipedia, under " hydrogen peroxide " ,

e.g. at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide#Therapeutic_useBTW -- we

could use some kind of " wiki " internet function, i.e. a data collection and

organizational / retrieval system based on user input and some sort of

peer-review (as opposed to dictums from " experts " ). That's

what " wikipedia " is. E.g. there're entries on CM, which I have gone in and

amended. Others can amend those changes. And then there's a sort of monitored

referee system. Or, e.g., an organization permitting alternative opionions /

interpretations. -- Checked

by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release

12/19/2006 1:17 PMYehuda L. Frischman, L.Ac, CST,

SERhttp://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/______\

__________Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

December 21, 2006

Yehuda,

Thanks for the book suggestion, I will have to look into it. I consider

fermented foods (miso, kimchee, etc) an important part of TCM/OM practice and

sometimes observe that we may practice many of its techniques out of context w/o

this observation of TCM/OM's past and the Earth elemental connection. What do

you think?Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

: :

Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:39:16 -0800RE: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxide and

natural digestive aids

Dear Mike,That is a fascinating tidbit about catabolase found in staph breaking

down H2O2. What a wonderful method to detect if a patient has a staph infection.

Do you know what the specific dose and protocol is? As far as your question

about traditional foods used to promote intestinal floral balance, a great book

is " Foundations of Health, the Liver and Digestive Herbal " by Christopher Hobbs.

Hobbs is one of those well rounded people who has an extensive background in

Western Herbology as well as being a licensed acupuncturist. The book is a easy

read, and is chalk full of information, Western and Eastern, biochemistry,

anatomy and physiology and herbology about the liver and digestive tract.

Anyway, in it has almost 50 pages on the topic of probiotics and natural lactic

acid producing bacteria, as well as recipes for making your own. I don't know if

he's revised it, and much new info has come to the fore since he published it in

'92, but I really like it and highlyrecommend it.Sincerely,Yehuda mike Bowser

<naturaldoc1 wrote:I have taken this in the past as well. Recently,

my micro/immunology class discussed another aspect relevent to this issue. The

enzyme catabolase, breaks down hydrogen peroxide, and is found in staph

varieties not strep. So this enzyme can be used to decide if bacteria are of

either of these varieties. This might help in changing the internal flora/fauna

of the gut. I would like to hear more discussions on the traditional ideas

related to bacteria, found in most common fermented foods, that were consumed

regularly by many traditional societies. Anyone care to share info on this

aspect of Earth?Mike W. Bowser, L AcTo:

Chinese Medicine: : Wed,

20 Dec 2006 13:00:33 -0800Re: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxideClarissa,My

impression is that it should not be used like a nutritional supplement, but

rather like a medicine. As a point of comparison can one use a qi or blood

moving herb over a long period of time if it's not indicated? It will damage the

spleen, and scatter the qi. The same here, IMO. I would like to learn more about

it and use it for patients as a medicine, not as a vitamin.All the

best,YehudaRissa Guest <clarissadawn1 wrote:Some friends and I

tryed it after reading it in his book. I ordered it from the local health food

store. I started at one drop every other day and worked my way up to 2-3 drops a

day or so I don't exactly remember but it wasn't very much. I was traveling to a

seminar and got the absolute worst pain in my stomach I have ever had. It was

awful. I don't know how my friends made out, maybe they abandoned the idea when

they saw how sick I was. I never asked but I know they didn't stay with it.

Clarissa - Turiya Hill To:

Chinese Medicine Wednesday, December 20, 2006

9:00 AMRe: H2O2- Hydrogen peroxidePaul Pichford's book is full of

information....some of it very sound and fundamental.....but how many patients

does he treat every week/month/year etc. to validate the information he

disseminates?- yehuda frischman To:

Chinese Medicine Wednesday, December 20, 2006

12:53 AMH2O2- Hydrogen peroxideDear Chris and all,Sorry about the

confusion. This is what I do know: 35% food grade Hydrogen peroxide supports and

moves the qi and blood. I would guess that it also clears toxic heat. However,

as the article Chris linked to indicated, it is controversial. The impression I

have from what I have read, is that when used in very pure non-industrial form,

and when diluted, it is a powerful anti-parasitic, anti-fungal, anti-viral,

anti-biotic and anti-neoplastic.But again it must be pure, it must be diluted,

and you had better know what you are doing when using it. That is why I ask if

anyone has had experience using it, and if they have a good source.Thanks

again,Yehuda < wrote:At 10:21 PM 12/19/2006, you

wrote:>Oops! meant to ask about hydrogen peroxide, not hydrochloric acid!> Dear

friends and colleagues,>> I know that it's not a TCM therapy, but Paul Pitchford

mentions > it in his book so I'll ask anyway: Have any of you ever used food >

grade 35% Hydrochloric Acid therapeutically with your > patients? Does anyone

have a reliable source?Good basic WM/chemical information on H2O2 in Wikipedia,

under " hydrogen peroxide " , e.g.

at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide#Therapeutic_useBTW -- we could

use some kind of " wiki " internet function, i.e. a data collection and

organizational / retrieval system based on user input and some sort of

peer-review (as opposed to dictums from " experts " ). That'swhat " wikipedia " is.

E.g. there're entries on CM, which I have gone in and amended. Others can amend

those changes. And then there's a sort of monitored referee system. Or, e.g., an

organization permitting alternative opionions / interpretations. --

Version:

7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release 12/19/2006 1:17 PMYehuda

L. Frischman, L.Ac, CST,

SERhttp://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/______\

__________Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

around [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

December 21, 2006

Yehuda,

The presence of this enzyme (catabolase) allows for simple differentiation and

determination of a bacteria (staph vs strep). It is a genetically determined

trait and is either there (in staph) or absent (in strep). We ran the

experiment with petri dishes, bacterial samples, H2O2, and time. As I recall,

there was not much to it. I mention this because it might explain why gargling

with hydrogen peroxide might help with various sore throats (ie, strep). As

strep cannot reduce the hydrogen peroxide, it then is reduced or killed by the

increased concentration of oxygen around it. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac