RE: pain. life and death

[Guest guest]

Hi all. May I jump in.

 

What I question is why,in a terminally diagnosed patient,are they are

worried about edema of the feet which is a branch tx, when time would

be better spent treating Shen to help with his suffering.

The MD is not dumb. He knew you can't do much about the edema. Either he's

making fun of you /himself. He had used powerful diuretics for years but

failed.(i.e.continues use of lasix that eventually failed, switched to bumex

(stronger) but failed, combination of both plus other thing else not working

either,= exhaustion of the channels = kidney failure... severe

multisystem/organ

failure.. severe kidney Qi deficiency / def in everything else.

The nurse at the bedside 24/7 is with the intent to support the family and

the dying for a peaceful/ comfortable transition; in other words, the agenda

is in place.

In many traditional medicines terminal patients are a category of

their own, so at some point I believe we can stop treating the

disease, and focus on relieving the persons suffering. After the

supervising doctor leaves me with the patient thats what I do. I dont

think this is giving up.

This life " and " death situation is a deep contemplation and a

heart-opening experience for me.

Being

realistic/closer look, Skip: When the patient is on Hospice/ crisis care a 24/7

nursing attendant is in place. There is a protocol with drugs to give. Liquid

morphine(roxanol) is one among others...a CNS depressant; would induce/

accelerate coma.. desired effect.(rationale..to make the patient as comfortable

as

can be) pt.can go into coma real quick and that's called very comfortable.

ps The pulses and breathing do improve,and hes conscious, so I do feel

that beyond my intention I am in fact, doing something significant.th

Don't know about that conclusion. Think again. Roxanol is ongoing, pushing

the coma deeper & deeper. Breathing could be deeper,seemingly more effective,

but soon after, he'll be using all accessory respiratory

muscles>>respiratory failure(roxanol effect) Death is imminent in 24-48hrs on

the average.

One step back to reassess is not " giving up " , or giving up = losing. Accept

reality. This is happening in America. It's much too late into the game, (in

the given circumstances.).. separation between yin & yang had begun, it'll be

much like raising the dead. That's too ambitious...unrealistic.

 

Even before doing anything, first discontinue all drugs. Are we allowed to

do that? No. Then detoxify. How much time have you got before the patient die?

Then, there is severe qi def . You've got nothing to do anything. To give

treatment in this circumstances (isn't that contraindicated to begin with?)

could aggravate the condition. The patient could pass out / die.At this point,

I would forget the HEROIC MODE.

COMFORT MEASURES ONLY...

 

I use Sujok concept (Korean hand and foot) massaging gently. so as not to

drain Qi any further. my $oo.o2

Thanks. this has given me some clarification. Take care.

amyc

 

_Traditional_Traditional_<WBRTraditional_Tra_

(Chinese Medicine ) , yehuda frischman

<@..r> wrote:

> My strategy was to drain and dispel the fluid accumulation, unblock

the bowels, move the qi and blood, and support the liver and kidneys.

I don't think we have any right to give up on a patient, no matter

how bad they appear. The fact that after the treatment, her

appearance and pulses changed dramatically to the better, was proof

enough to me that without the

> " best-intentioned " heroic intervention to try and ease her pain,

she could have lived and improved, with G-d's help. Doh't let your

treatment ever become mechanical. Keep trying with all you've got.

>

> Much success,

>

> Yehuda

>

> skip8080 <skip8080@..s> wrote:

> I had a similar encounter today interning in Xiamen, China.

>

> I was introduced to a patient being treated " water swelling of the

> feet, moving upward " . I looked at his tongue and its was thin, crimson

> red,with a black and orange burnt dry coating, like I have never seen.

> Later I asked the attending doctor about his condition. He has cancer

> and is expected to die within a few days.

> I'll be treating him until then. I'm really contemplating how I can

> best be of service to this person.

>

> Skip

>

> -

 

 

 

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