Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thomas, The " law of cure " is a principle of homeopathy developed by Constantine Hering in the late 19th century, not a principle of Chinese medicine. It was adapted by J.R. Worsley who freely borrowed from homeopathy in his original, eclectic approach to acupuncture. If you describe what you read from various writers on Chinese medicine, include details of the " law of cure " as they describe it, it would be helpful. There are no references to this in Chinese medical literature that I am aware of, but certainly there are similar concepts there. But the sources must be clear to continue. On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote: > Dear Group, > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/ > restoring > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sorensen > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > Denmark > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dear Thomas, Please describe " the Law of Cure " , as I am not entirely familiar with the connotation. Thank you. K. On 12/4/06, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen <> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/restoring > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sorensen > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > Denmark > > > -- 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem.' Jiddu Krishnamurti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dear Mr. Kokko, The Law of Cure is a formalized description of the socalled Healing Crisis as it has been described to occur as healing progressess. According to The Law of Cure Diseases and symptoms will will leave from within to without, above to below, and/or in reverse chronological order. My questions really pertain to the Healing crisis in general..... Best regards Thomas Sørensen Acupuncturist (P.A.) Denamrk skrev: > > Dear Thomas, > Please describe " the Law of Cure " , > as I am not entirely familiar with the connotation. > > Thank you. K. > > On 12/4/06, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen < > <thomas%40orientalskmedicin.dk>> wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/restoring > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > Denmark > > > > > > > > -- > 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the > understanding of > a problem.' > > Jiddu Krishnamurti > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dear Mr. Rosenberg, I apologize for my lack of clarity! I am aware that The Law of Cure is borrowed from homeopathay and that, obviously not Chinese in origin, it can't be (fully?) descriptive of the healing processess as found in . The writers I had in mind are L.Ac. Lonny Jarret (Worsley 5E) and DOM Skya Gardner-Abbate, but it also commonly used as a teaching concept in acupuncture schools in Europe - at least in Denmark. Again I apologize for my lack of clarity in the previous post. I am actually more interested in knowing more about the CM descriptions of healing crisis - if this concept applies. Or is it a purely Western idea. Again I pose this question because, among colleagues in CM, I hear about a lot the socalled healing crisis, but do not experience it in clinic myself. However I do experience adverse effects of acupuncture, but non that I would describe as healing crises.... I hope this cleared things up a bit (I realize that this changes the focusof question quite a lot) Best regards, Thomas Sørensen Acupuncturist (P.A.) Denamrk skrev: > > Thomas, > The " law of cure " is a principle of homeopathy developed by > Constantine Hering in the late 19th century, not a principle of > Chinese medicine. It was adapted by J.R. Worsley who freely borrowed > from homeopathy in his original, eclectic approach to acupuncture. > > If you describe what you read from various writers on Chinese > medicine, include details of the " law of cure " as they describe it, > it would be helpful. There are no references to this in Chinese > medical literature that I am aware of, but certainly there are > similar concepts there. But the sources must be clear to continue. > > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote: > > > Dear Group, > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/ > > restoring > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > Denmark > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 As far as i am aware, there is no mention of a healing crisis in Chinese medicine. However, i have seen what may be described as a healing crisis in clinic. Some may say that it is because the treatment is wrong, but i would suggest that as the genuine qi fights the evil qi, the ensuing battle may be described as a healing crisis, although it is not strictly a `healing crisis', but looks like one. I've only ever seen this with the use of herbal medicines. That's my 2 cents. Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen <> wrote: > > Dear Mr. Rosenberg, > > I apologize for my lack of clarity! > > I am aware that The Law of Cure is borrowed from homeopathay and that, > obviously not Chinese in origin, it can't be (fully?) descriptive of the > healing processess as found in . > > The writers I had in mind are L.Ac. Lonny Jarret (Worsley 5E) and DOM > Skya Gardner-Abbate, but it also commonly used as a teaching concept in > acupuncture schools in Europe - at least in Denmark. > > Again I apologize for my lack of clarity in the previous post. I am > actually more interested in knowing more about the CM descriptions of > healing crisis - if this concept applies. Or is it a purely Western > idea. Again I pose this question because, among colleagues in CM, I hear > about a lot the socalled healing crisis, but do not experience it in > clinic myself. However I do experience adverse effects of acupuncture, > but non that I would describe as healing crises.... > > I hope this cleared things up a bit (I realize that this changes the > focusof question quite a lot) > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sørensen > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > Denamrk > > skrev: > > > > Thomas, > > The " law of cure " is a principle of homeopathy developed by > > Constantine Hering in the late 19th century, not a principle of > > Chinese medicine. It was adapted by J.R. Worsley who freely borrowed > > from homeopathy in his original, eclectic approach to acupuncture. > > > > If you describe what you read from various writers on Chinese > > medicine, include details of the " law of cure " as they describe it, > > it would be helpful. There are no references to this in Chinese > > medical literature that I am aware of, but certainly there are > > similar concepts there. But the sources must be clear to continue. > > > > > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/ > > > restoring > > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > > Denmark > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thomas, I brought this same subject up a couple of years back. After my own experience with healing through that followed Hering's Law of Cure (long before I was ever an acupuncturist myself), I have been interested in this topic. I have definitely seen the Law of Cure in action in my own clinic. My thoughts have evolved as follows: My experiences have led me to believe that Hering's Law of Cure describes the typical way in which the body heals itself - by throwing off pattern after pattern in the order in which we developed them and they thus lodged in our bodies. Perhaps the reason that the Law of Cure is less relevant for Chinese Medicine is that we have the ability in CM to support the body in a very sophisticated manner through these " healing crisis " , thus minimizing them. We are also able to diagnose very complex patterns based not just on patient reporting but also with tongue and pulse which can reveal deeper, underlying issues. When we aren't able to correct for it, for instance in especially complex cases, we may see the law of cure in action, but most of the time, our interventions are sufficient to avoid a patient's experience of previous symptoms, etc. For instance, if a patient had a Wind-Heat condition, they would most likely be complaining of aversion to wind and a feverish sensation that came and went - but CM doesn't stop there, we get a history, take tongue and pulse and realize there's an underlying internal Cold and Blood Stasis. Most would still begin by treating the Wind-Heat first (the acute condition) and when that was gone, go on to treat the Cold and Blood Stasis - A skilled practitioner would most likely take into account the underlying condition and tweak the Wind-Heat formula accordingly so as to minimize the Cold signs once the Wind- Heat had passed... This would conform to Hering's Law of Cure, we just wouldn't look at it that way... the Cold and Blood Stasis signs would have become much more obvious after the Wind-Heat was gone. We removed the first pattern to observe more clearly the pattern underlying, and the patient has experienced moving backwards through their symptoms. In a complex case without an acute element, we may be able to go at most of their pattern with one treatment strategy thus eliminating in large part the stripping of one pattern to reveal another... That is simply my own experience and thoughts. I know there are some in CM who believe that Hering's Law of Cure should only be relevant for homeopathy, especially since there isn't much in the CM literature about it, but in my mind, healing is healing. Different healing modalities come at it in different ways. Best, Nadia Chinese Medicine , Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen <> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas on > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > I see it described among some writers on , but I never > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/restoring > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms be > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sorensen > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > Denmark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thomas, No apology necessary. You've exposed another of the major problems in teaching Chinese medicine in the West. When teaching Chinese medicine, there has to be integrity in the sources used. If a concept comes from homeopathy, it should be stated that it is so, and not pretend that it is from Chinese sources. Our profession still has a weak foundation in the actual source materials of the field. How many teachers have actually studied and/or teach the Mai Jing/Pulse Classic, Nan Jing/Classic of Difficulties, or Jin Gui Yao Lue/Prescriptions from the Golden Coffer? How many read the dozens of journals from China or Japan on recent studies and case histories? This leads to eclectic borrowing from other fields, with a loss of continuity of conceptual framework and accountability. Instead, we get a watered-down pastiche of mixed influences, without adequate referencing or sources. As far as the " law of cure " goes, or healing crises, there are some similar sources in the Chinese medical literature that I've mentioned in the past. One is in the first chapter of " Prescriptions from the Golden Coffer " , due to be released in a new translation by Paradigm Publications next year. This chapter describes a favorable and unfavorable progression of skin disease from the extremities to or from the trunk of the body (a bit detailed for an e-mail I think). Another is Liu Bao-yi's work on latent qi warm disease/fu qi wen bing. Dr. Liu, a Qing dynasty physician, speaks of layers of pathogens in warm disease that cause aggravation of symptoms as they are released by herbal treatment. Chip Chace and have translated some of this work in recent issues of " The Lantern " , one of our best CM journals out there. But these are applied in limited situations, they are not global CM concepts applicable to all clinical situations, at all times. On Dec 5, 2006, at 12:56 AM, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote: > Dear Mr. Rosenberg, > > I apologize for my lack of clarity! > > I am aware that The Law of Cure is borrowed from homeopathay and that, > obviously not Chinese in origin, it can't be (fully?) descriptive > of the > healing processess as found in . > > The writers I had in mind are L.Ac. Lonny Jarret (Worsley 5E) and DOM > Skya Gardner-Abbate, but it also commonly used as a teaching > concept in > acupuncture schools in Europe - at least in Denmark. > > Again I apologize for my lack of clarity in the previous post. I am > actually more interested in knowing more about the CM descriptions of > healing crisis - if this concept applies. Or is it a purely Western > idea. Again I pose this question because, among colleagues in CM, I > hear > about a lot the socalled healing crisis, but do not experience it in > clinic myself. However I do experience adverse effects of acupuncture, > but non that I would describe as healing crises.... > > I hope this cleared things up a bit (I realize that this changes the > focusof question quite a lot) > > Best regards, > > Thomas Sørensen > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > Denamrk > > skrev: > > > > Thomas, > > The " law of cure " is a principle of homeopathy developed by > > Constantine Hering in the late 19th century, not a principle of > > Chinese medicine. It was adapted by J.R. Worsley who freely borrowed > > from homeopathy in his original, eclectic approach to acupuncture. > > > > If you describe what you read from various writers on Chinese > > medicine, include details of the " law of cure " as they describe it, > > it would be helpful. There are no references to this in Chinese > > medical literature that I am aware of, but certainly there are > > similar concepts there. But the sources must be clear to continue. > > > > > > On Dec 4, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote: > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, > ideas on > > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but > I never > > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving balance/ > > > restoring > > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " > symptoms be > > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > > Denmark > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Nadia, I don't agree that the Law of Cure describes the clinical example you provide. Uncovering deeper patterns is explained by ben and biao, root and branch in Chinese medicine. Ideally, one tries to treat both root and branch at the same time, adjusting the herbal prescription to include, as you mention, blood stasis and internal cold at the same time as wind/heat. In fact, in most cases, it would be incorrect to ignore these factors and just expel wind/heat. Then the herbal treatment would aggravate the cold and possibly the blood stasis as well. The possibility of someone with internal cold contracting wind heat, by the way, is relatively slim. In Shang Han Lun theory, any heat observed would possibly be a yang ming channel disease. According to the Law of Cure, one remedy alone will potentially stimulate a healing process that goes through the entire history of illnesses in the patient, creating a reaction that can last years. Read Catherine Coulter's works for examples on how this happens, especially with the use of nosodes. The reason that the Law of Cure doesn't apply necessarily to Chinese medicine as a global theory is that it is part of the homeopathic simillimum approach, i.e. that one uses a similar medicinal substance that creates a similar disease pattern in attenuated doses to stimulate the body and mind to eliminate the disease. Chinese medicine is clearly based on heteropathic treatment, i.e., warming cold, cooling heat, supplementing vacuity, draining repletion. The methodologies and theories are different. If one wants to practice homeopathy or find inspiration in it, as I've done, all well and good. The Organon of Samuel Hahnemann in my mind is one of the greatest books on medicine ever written. However, any homeopath worth their stripes would agree that mixing homeopathy with any other conceptual system in clinical practice is not correct. Homeopathy and Chinese medicine can work side by side to help our patients, but let us not confuse them by mixing up their conceptual foundations. One needs to have relative mastery of one's own discipline in order to be eclectic. Our field is relatively young in the West, and most of us cannot read the source texts in Chinese, so we borrow. This leads to a watered-down, inconsistent version of Chinese medicine that doesn't respect its sources. On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:54 AM, clothoatropos wrote: > Thomas, > > I brought this same subject up a couple of years back. After my own > experience with healing through that followed > Hering's Law of Cure (long before I was ever an acupuncturist > myself), I have been interested in this topic. > > I have definitely seen the Law of Cure in action in my own clinic. My > thoughts have evolved as follows: > > My experiences have led me to believe that Hering's Law of Cure > describes the typical way in which the body heals itself - by > throwing off pattern after pattern in the order in which we developed > them and they thus lodged in our bodies. > > Perhaps the reason that the Law of Cure is less relevant for Chinese > Medicine is that we have the ability in CM to support the body in a > very sophisticated manner through these " healing crisis " , thus > minimizing them. We are also able to diagnose very complex patterns > based not just on patient reporting but also with tongue and pulse > which can reveal deeper, underlying issues. > > When we aren't able to correct for it, for instance in especially > complex cases, we may see the law of cure in action, but most of the > time, our interventions are sufficient to avoid a patient's > experience of previous symptoms, etc. > > For instance, if a patient had a Wind-Heat condition, they would most > likely be complaining of aversion to wind and a feverish sensation > that came and went - but CM doesn't stop there, we get a history, > take tongue and pulse and realize there's an underlying internal Cold > and Blood Stasis. Most would still begin by treating the Wind-Heat > first (the acute condition) and when that was gone, go on to treat > the Cold and Blood Stasis - A skilled practitioner would most likely > take into account the underlying condition and tweak the Wind-Heat > formula accordingly so as to minimize the Cold signs once the Wind- > Heat had passed... > > This would conform to Hering's Law of Cure, we just wouldn't look at > it that way... the Cold and Blood Stasis signs would have become much > more obvious after the Wind-Heat was gone. We removed the first > pattern to observe more clearly the pattern underlying, and the > patient has experienced moving backwards through their symptoms. > > In a complex case without an acute element, we may be able to go at > most of their pattern with one treatment strategy thus eliminating in > large part the stripping of one pattern to reveal another... > > That is simply my own experience and thoughts. I know there are some > in CM who believe that Hering's Law of Cure should only be relevant > for homeopathy, especially since there isn't much in the CM > literature about it, but in my mind, healing is healing. Different > healing modalities come at it in different ways. > > Best, > Nadia > > Chinese Medicine , Thomas Bøgedal > Sørensen <> wrote: > > > > Dear Group, > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas > on > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but I > never > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving > balance/restoring > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms > be > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > Denmark > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Z'ev, Interesting response - Thank you. I admit that my example is not taken from clinical experience (hence the remote chance of encountering it as you mention) but merely meant as an illustration. Your point is well-taken however. I do not mix homeopathy and CM in my clinic nor would claim to have more than a cursory knowledge of homeopathy beyond a course in the fundamentals I once took to have a better understanding of that thought system. I did read up, during that course, on the foundation literature, and have read Dr. Rudolph Ballentine's book " Radical Healing " - where he does adapt the Law of Cure to healing in general, not just Homeopathy, and perhaps there lies the point of confusion. I meant only that my experience with healing in general does sometimes coincide with the Law of Cure, a few far more experienced acupuncturists than I have discussed it with me in relation to CM and I have it, thus, in the back of my mind as a point of interest, as Thomas brings it up. Perhaps my example was not a good one, and I admit to being somewhat rushed in writing it, which is never a good practice when posting. I do agree that Homeopathy and CM are fundamentally different healing modalities and thus we cannot expect a lot of overlap. If you take the Law of Cure as one way in which the body heals itself - then a natural progression of that would be that CM and Homeopathy operate in different ways to promote healing of the body and any absence of the signs of the Law of Cure could be a result of the difference in approach of CM - as I related it, perhaps the addressing of the entire pattern, however complex. If you do not agree that the Law of Cure is a fundamental way in which the body heals itself, but merely the way healing is manifested when approaching the body in a " homeopathic simillimum " approach, as you described it, then indeed we could not find it relevant for CM. Since my experience has been that it is relevant beyond homeopathy - energetic healing, yoga, and in limited circumstances in CM, none of which could aptly be described as approaching the body in a similar way as homeopathy does, I have become interested in the possibilities of the former above, however am certainly open to other interpretations in order to grow, myself, as a healer. I am, of course, always interested in your point of view as I value your extensive experience in clinical and historical CM. Thanks for your response, Nadia Chinese Medicine , " " <zrosenbe wrote: > > Nadia, > I don't agree that the Law of Cure describes the clinical example > you provide. Uncovering deeper patterns is explained by ben and > biao, root and branch in Chinese medicine. Ideally, one tries to > treat both root and branch at the same time, adjusting the herbal > prescription to include, as you mention, blood stasis and internal > cold at the same time as wind/heat. In fact, in most cases, it would > be incorrect to ignore these factors and just expel wind/heat. Then > the herbal treatment would aggravate the cold and possibly the blood > stasis as well. The possibility of someone with internal cold > contracting wind heat, by the way, is relatively slim. In Shang Han > Lun theory, any heat observed would possibly be a yang ming channel > disease. > > According to the Law of Cure, one remedy alone will potentially > stimulate a healing process that goes through the entire history of > illnesses in the patient, creating a reaction that can last years. > Read Catherine Coulter's works for examples on how this happens, > especially with the use of nosodes. > > The reason that the Law of Cure doesn't apply necessarily to > Chinese medicine as a global theory is that it is part of the > homeopathic simillimum approach, i.e. that one uses a similar > medicinal substance that creates a similar disease pattern in > attenuated doses to stimulate the body and mind to eliminate the > disease. > > Chinese medicine is clearly based on heteropathic treatment, > i.e., warming cold, cooling heat, supplementing vacuity, draining > repletion. The methodologies and theories are different. > > If one wants to practice homeopathy or find inspiration in it, as > I've done, all well and good. The Organon of Samuel Hahnemann in my > mind is one of the greatest books on medicine ever written. > > However, any homeopath worth their stripes would agree that > mixing homeopathy with any other conceptual system in clinical > practice is not correct. Homeopathy and Chinese medicine can work > side by side to help our patients, but let us not confuse them by > mixing up their conceptual foundations. > > One needs to have relative mastery of one's own discipline in > order to be eclectic. Our field is relatively young in the West, and > most of us cannot read the source texts in Chinese, so we borrow. > > This leads to a watered-down, inconsistent version of Chinese > medicine that doesn't respect its sources. > > > On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:54 AM, clothoatropos wrote: > > > Thomas, > > > > I brought this same subject up a couple of years back. After my own > > experience with healing through that followed > > Hering's Law of Cure (long before I was ever an acupuncturist > > myself), I have been interested in this topic. > > > > I have definitely seen the Law of Cure in action in my own clinic. My > > thoughts have evolved as follows: > > > > My experiences have led me to believe that Hering's Law of Cure > > describes the typical way in which the body heals itself - by > > throwing off pattern after pattern in the order in which we developed > > them and they thus lodged in our bodies. > > > > Perhaps the reason that the Law of Cure is less relevant for Chinese > > Medicine is that we have the ability in CM to support the body in a > > very sophisticated manner through these " healing crisis " , thus > > minimizing them. We are also able to diagnose very complex patterns > > based not just on patient reporting but also with tongue and pulse > > which can reveal deeper, underlying issues. > > > > When we aren't able to correct for it, for instance in especially > > complex cases, we may see the law of cure in action, but most of the > > time, our interventions are sufficient to avoid a patient's > > experience of previous symptoms, etc. > > > > For instance, if a patient had a Wind-Heat condition, they would most > > likely be complaining of aversion to wind and a feverish sensation > > that came and went - but CM doesn't stop there, we get a history, > > take tongue and pulse and realize there's an underlying internal Cold > > and Blood Stasis. Most would still begin by treating the Wind-Heat > > first (the acute condition) and when that was gone, go on to treat > > the Cold and Blood Stasis - A skilled practitioner would most likely > > take into account the underlying condition and tweak the Wind-Heat > > formula accordingly so as to minimize the Cold signs once the Wind- > > Heat had passed... > > > > This would conform to Hering's Law of Cure, we just wouldn't look at > > it that way... the Cold and Blood Stasis signs would have become much > > more obvious after the Wind-Heat was gone. We removed the first > > pattern to observe more clearly the pattern underlying, and the > > patient has experienced moving backwards through their symptoms. > > > > In a complex case without an acute element, we may be able to go at > > most of their pattern with one treatment strategy thus eliminating in > > large part the stripping of one pattern to reveal another... > > > > That is simply my own experience and thoughts. I know there are some > > in CM who believe that Hering's Law of Cure should only be relevant > > for homeopathy, especially since there isn't much in the CM > > literature about it, but in my mind, healing is healing. Different > > healing modalities come at it in different ways. > > > > Best, > > Nadia > > > > Chinese Medicine , Thomas Bøgedal > > Sørensen <thomas@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone here has any comments, experiences, ideas > > on > > > " The Law of Cure " as relating to . > > > > > > I see it described among some writers on , but I > > never > > > seem to observe it in clinic, which makes me wonder... > > > > > > Could it be that " The Law of Cure " is not well applied to Chinese > > > Medicin/acupuncture since mainly deals with achieving > > balance/restoring > > > function from dysfunction. Could the reappearance of " old " symptoms > > be > > > iatrogenesis? Or am I missing something? > > > > > > Hoping for responses on this one! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > Acupuncturist (P.A.) > > > Denmark > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Dear Nadia, And thank you as well for your thoughtful discussion. My original response, of course, was based on my concern for what Thomas had mentioned about various teachers and authors of Chinese medical textbooks; including " The Law of Cure " as a bona fide part of Chinese medical theory. This is clearly not the case. On Dec 5, 2006, at 5:15 PM, clothoatropos wrote: > Z'ev, > > Interesting response - Thank you. I admit that my example is not > taken from clinical experience (hence the remote chance of > encountering it as you mention) but merely meant as an illustration. > Your point is well-taken however. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hello all, I am also unable to speak to the presence or absence of the concept of healing crisis in the literature of Traditional . I have seen what I call a " healing crisis " in the clinic many times though. How do we assess whether the arising symptoms are from a healing crisis or a manifestation of our patient getting worse or responding to faulty treatment? Through this experience I have developed my own guidelines for evaluating this. I inquire whether the symptoms meet the following criteria: 1. If the patient was feeling noticably better relative to the main complaints before the new symptoms arose. 2. If the new symptoms are on a more superficial level than the improved main complaint. 3. If there is a subjective sense for the patient that the main complaint is still better and/or that the new symptom subjectively feels as if it is what the body needs to do. 4. if the new symptom passes quickly and leaves the patient with a sense that they are better than they have been for a long time. The new symptom has to meet all of these criteria for me to call it a healing crisis. A few of the cases in which I have seen this are- a woman with severe low back pain developed severe but temporary dizziness after her back felt better very deficient patients getting a really bad cold - especially when they have reported not getting " really sick " for many years. I've seen this a lot with cancer patients and see it as a very good sign. Patients often feel much better after working through the cold. Very commonly patients feel better from their main complaint only to go through a period of deep sadness or even fear. As per my criteria, they feel a sense of getting to the truth of something and they move through it quickly. These are just a few of the instances in which the concept of " healing crisis " has been helpful to me. The criteria really help me and they help my patients because they can frame the new symptoms in a healthy way and evaluate them for themselves. If patients don't meet the criteria then that is a wake up call for me to seriously evaluate my diagnosis and treatment. Hope this helps, Sharon Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 There have been a number of insightful comments and explanations already on this topic from some clearly experienced people. I'll add my own twist. Hering's quote Law unquote, is an occasionally observed phenomenon that is better appreciated as an after the fact observation, rather than an anticipated sequence. You might just see what you expect, and worst of all contribute to the patient manifesting symptoms out of their own anticipation. Temporary aggravation of an existing situation is a reactive sign that may or may not indicate mobilization of healing force. Brief return of an old physical sign or mental / emotional state can usually be observed as a patient's _ wow the weirdest thing happened . . ._ type comment. The patient should probably in some way feel better or relieved, and believe they are moving in a good direction. However, disease progression is such an immense and speculative topic that accurately assessing the current moment is challenge enough for me without pretending a new presentation to be anything other than what it is. I always understood the _ healing crisis_ concept to come out of naturopathic sweat and purge thinking, and specifically purification regimes with the predictable sequela from sudden extreme changes in diet or fasting. If this matches an historical CM School of Attacking and Purging, I see only proof of the universality of humans inventing sometimes hazardous methods to instigate transformation, while others get concerned about lineage and whose version is borrowed and watered down ( ! ) The term also came to be used (perhaps with grand delusion) by Vithoulkis, C.Coulter and other single-dose prescribers, and later by shotgun polypharmacists as an excuse to justify incomprehensible or just plain bad results from one too many wrong therapies. One of the core strengths of Zhongyao (CM) is that attention to homeokinesis (not homeostasis) - which is the true nature of constantly changing yin and yang . . . means that we constantly evaluate and adjust, evaluate and adjust. When this is done properly with full cooperation by both doctor and patient, the crises seen in crash - fasting or with multiple remedies / nosodes should not happen, but that is in my limited experience, and I'm not attending to hospital cases. I'll believe in the fantasy of pure bonified classical yet fully evolved medicine as soon as someone guarantees they can teach me the 720 degree spin-kicks I see in the movies. Joe Reid 12-06-06 jreidomd.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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