Adverse reactions with herbs and SSRIs

[Guest guest]

I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

formulas/medication.

Tony (UK)

[Guest guest]

When I took a class from Bob Flaws, He said treat the pattern, drugs and

everything. The drugs are jsut like food diet patterns, it all shows up

in the pulse, tongue, ect. Everyone reacts to teh SSRI differently.

 

Rozz

 

tony000_t wrote:

> I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

> his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

> Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

> leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

> the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

> him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

> them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

> minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

> formulas/medication.

> Tony (UK)

>

>

>

>

> Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

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>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

>

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, St. John's Wort can interact with SSRIs. However, that's no big deal,

because as an antidepressant, St. John's Wort is not all that great, and I

haven't used it to treat depression for at least 8 years. I feel similarly

about using Gingseng for clinical depression, not that great.

 

Obviously treat the pattern, but you might want to look at something like

xiao yao wan or bu nao wan.

 

Avery

 

 

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:28:12 -0400, tony000_t <tony

wrote:

 

> I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

> his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

> Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

> leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

> the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

> him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

> them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

> minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

> formulas/medication.

> Tony (UK)

>

>

 

 

 

--

Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN

Chiropractic Physician

Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists

Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

www.docaltmed.com

[Guest guest]

Hi, my name is Orlando Rodríguez, I´m a TCM student, from a school in Chile,

South America

The director of my school (Escuela Latinoamericana de M.T.Ch.)

www.medicinachina.cl

Luis Pedreros is profesor from the U. of Guangzhou, China. To treat

depression hi uses the points called " Soul Points " of the urinary bladder.

That is a very old and special technic, but extraordinarily efective.

Try those points.

 

On 10/17/06, Dr. Avery Jenkins <docaltmed wrote:

>

> Yes, St. John's Wort can interact with SSRIs. However, that's no big deal,

> because as an antidepressant, St. John's Wort is not all that great, and I

> haven't used it to treat depression for at least 8 years. I feel similarly

> about using Gingseng for clinical depression, not that great.

>

> Obviously treat the pattern, but you might want to look at something like

> xiao yao wan or bu nao wan.

>

> Avery

>

>

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:28:12 -0400, tony000_t <tony

> wrote:

>

> > I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

> > his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

> > Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

> > leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

> > the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

> > him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

> > them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

> > minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

> > formulas/medication.

> > Tony (UK)

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN

> Chiropractic Physician

> Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists

> Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

> www.docaltmed.com

>

>

> Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

> and adjust

> accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

>

[Guest guest]

Well, when Professor Luis Pedreros first arrived to Chile, his idea was to

use TCM to treat athletes, but in Chile few athletes were interested in TCM.

 

A psychologist friend of him, send as referral one of his patients, the

patient was on a severe depression.

 

Hi didn't know how to deal with the guy, so hi did a standard treatment on

the patient the first time. At home, he looked out for some notes that many

year ago, his Chinese Master has given to him. Well he found the " Soul

Points " , on one of his note books. He looked for other practitioners that

also used or knew something about those points, but no luck.

 

Hi used the points and the technique in that first patient, and in all the

other patients that came with depression to his practice; with an

outstanding outcome, hi could not believe.

 

Years later hi knew of a practitioner in Beijing, that said that she had

learned the technique of the " Soul Points " from an old Master, but few

practitioners used it today in China, as far as he knows.

 

The 5 Soul Points are the Shu points of the Taiyang channel of the Urinary

Bladder, located along the back, wish are related to the 5 Zhang organs on

the feet.

 

 

 

As Phil said, they are also called the five " Points of the Spirit " check the

material send by Phil. It is very good, thanks Phil!!!.

 

Well the technique to use those points is as follow:

 

Work the point in pairs

 

BL 15 – BL 44

 

BL 20 – BL 49

 

BL 13 – BL 42

 

BL 23– BL 52

 

BL 18– BL 47

 

 

 

1. Now, you can choose from them, according to your diagnosis and the origin

of the syndrome. (you can use all the points, but it is no good to use to

many needles)

 

2. The points of the needles has to face each other. Example

 

BL15 --àß--BL44

 

No need to touch each other, but if does is ok.

 

3. The second pair of needles are related to the Zhang for example and using

Phil´s example HT09 and HT07 according to the syndrome.

 

You do this with the other set of points. Lets said that for one patient you

use three of the pair of points; no problem, or you can use all five, but

you use to many needles (20) to many, but that is only may personal opinion.

 

 

4. In your second treatment you may want to use a moxa box.

 

Set the moxa box on the back, in the middle of the chosen points, it will

relax your patient.

 

 

 

That's how our teachers teach us to treat a patient with depression. In TCM

you may find 1000 ways to do the same job, this is just one of them.

 

 

 

Good Luck.

 

 

 

Orlando

 

 

On 10/19/06, Orlando Rodriguez Urriola <orodriguez.urriola wrote:

>

> Hi, my name is Orlando Rodríguez, I´m a TCM student, from a school in

> Chile, South America

> The director of my school (Escuela Latinoamericana de M.T.Ch.)

> www.medicinachina.cl

> Luis Pedreros is profesor from the U. of Guangzhou, China. To treat

> depression hi uses the points called " Soul Points " of the urinary bladder.

> That is a very old and special technic, but extraordinarily efective.

> Try those points.

>

> On 10/17/06, Dr. Avery Jenkins <docaltmed wrote:

> >

> > Yes, St. John's Wort can interact with SSRIs. However, that's no big

> > deal,

> > because as an antidepressant, St. John's Wort is not all that great, and

> > I

> > haven't used it to treat depression for at least 8 years. I feel

> > similarly

> > about using Gingseng for clinical depression, not that great.

> >

> > Obviously treat the pattern, but you might want to look at something

> > like

> > xiao yao wan or bu nao wan.

> >

> > Avery

> >

> >

> > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:28:12 -0400, tony000_t <tony

> > wrote:

> >

> > > I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

> > > his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

> > > Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

> > > leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

> > > the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

> > > him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

> > > them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

> > > minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

> > > formulas/medication.

> > > Tony (UK)

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN

> > Chiropractic Physician

> > Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists

> > Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

> > www.docaltmed.com

> >

> >

> > Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at

> > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

> >

> >

> >

> > and

> > adjust accordingly.

> >

> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

> > group requires prior permission from the author.

> >

> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

> > absolutely necessary.

> >

[Guest guest]

Many thanks for your contributions, on both the herb and acupuncture

recommendations. I've also come across a couple of interesting articles on

Subhuti Darmananda's site:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/herbdrug.htm

http://www.itmonline.org/shen/

Possibly you've already come across them.

Are there any other resources you'd recommend for herb-drug interactions?

Regards

Tony Todd

-

Orlando Rodriguez Urriola

Chinese Medicine

Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 AM

Re: Adverse reactions with herbs and SSRIs

 

 

Hi, my name is Orlando Rodríguez, I´m a TCM student, from a school in Chile,

South America

The director of my school (Escuela Latinoamericana de M.T.Ch.)

www.medicinachina.cl

Luis Pedreros is profesor from the U. of Guangzhou, China. To treat

depression hi uses the points called " Soul Points " of the urinary bladder.

That is a very old and special technic, but extraordinarily efective.

Try those points.

 

On 10/17/06, Dr. Avery Jenkins <docaltmed wrote:

>

> Yes, St. John's Wort can interact with SSRIs. However, that's no big deal,

> because as an antidepressant, St. John's Wort is not all that great, and I

> haven't used it to treat depression for at least 8 years. I feel similarly

> about using Gingseng for clinical depression, not that great.

>

> Obviously treat the pattern, but you might want to look at something like

> xiao yao wan or bu nao wan.

>

> Avery

>

>

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:28:12 -0400, tony000_t <tony

> wrote:

>

> > I've just started treating a 43 year old male (with acupuncture)who

> > his on medicatin for depression. According to Robert Rister (Japanese

> > Herbal medicine Avery Publishing 1999) St John's wart and Gingko

> > leaves can cause adverse reaction when someone is coming off SSRIs in

> > the time they are still in the system (6 weeks or so according to

> > him)so I'm presuming the case is true while they are still taking

> > them. I was considering prescribing him a tonic such as major 4 or

> > minor cinnamon and peony. Has anyone any advice regarding herb

> > formulas/medication.

> > Tony (UK)

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN

> Chiropractic Physician

> Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists

> Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

> www.docaltmed.com

>

>

> Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

> http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

> and adjust

> accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

>