Integration of TCM and WM - the way of the future

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed & All,

 

Ed Kasper wrote:

> Personally or professionally I am not trying to integrate WM and TCM.

 

IMO, the medicine of the future will integrate the best from all useful

systems.

 

> I am seeking to see if there is a connection between bacteria and

> virus, heat and cold. What conditions are set that will cause the

> flourishing or demise of a bodily disorder. We exist in a sea of life.

 

I would say we exist in a sea of order and chaos, life and death.

 

> ... development of pleomorphic microforms [fungus, yeasts, bacteria

> and molds] which make up a far greater number of living cells - in our

> bodies - than that of what we consider " our cells " . Too hot, too

> cold, too wet, too dry. Interior or exterior. Some disorders are

> " bacterial " some " viral " , some are secondary bacterial caused by the

> viral.

 

Agreed.

 

> WM only looks at " bacteria " or " viral " and seeks to eliminate them.

> TCM, IMO, looks at the terrain. Seeks to moderate the terrain that

> allowed the disorder to propagate. And then or further, to explore the

> root cause of how the terrain become " corrupted " in the first place.

 

With respect, I disagree; see below.

 

> The use of WM terms are useful because 1. they are common and 2

> they are definitive. I may treat a bacterial or viral infection with

> Yin Qiao San and it may help. I may treat it with an antibiotic and it

> may help. But unless I understand the terrain that lead to that

> disorder and treat the underlying disorder, the condition will return.

 

Agreed.

 

It is true that TCM since (if not before) the time of Huangdi paid great

attention to the terrain - especially the strength of the body defences like

the Weiqi etc. It also is true that TCM teaches the importance of

maintaining strong bodily & mental defences by having a balanced life,

eating well, practising physical and mental exercises, etc.

 

However, MANY WM professionals ALSO pay great attention to the

terrain. Indeed, before his death, Louis Pasteur is supposed to have

said: " Le microbe n'est rien. Le terrain est tout. " (The microbe is

nothing. The terrain is all " ).

 

Examples of this thinking include widely known influences of trace-

element and vitamin deficiencies in lowering immonocompetence, the

role of genetic predisposition in many human and animal diseases, the

role of stress in disease, the role of a healthy diet in reducing the risk of

certain diseases, etc, etc.

 

> Therefore IMO, TCM seeks to understand the terrain - WM does not, nor

> ever will, hence there never will be an integration. The thought

> process is on different planes.

 

More than 20 years ago, I wrote a review entitled: " ACUPUNCTURE

FOR IMMUNE-MEDIATED DISORDERS " [later posted at

http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/vet/immune1.htm ].

 

The opening paragraph in the introduction of that review was: " Control

of infectious diseases has depended on the use of vaccines and

antibiotics, isolation and embargo, test and slaughter programmes.

These strategies have failed to eradicate the major infectious diseases

of livestock " (1). " Bacterial infections of the mare's uterus have the

same incidence as they had before penicillin was discovered and the

economic importance of endometritis is increasing with the increase in

value of horses " (2). Micro-organisms and other pests preceded the

evolution of higher species and will exist long after their extinction. For

optimum chance of survival, higher forms must learn to co-exist with

lower. Adaptation is the key. " .

 

At that time, I was working as a Principal Research Officer in the

Agricultural Institute in Ireland. WM (or rather western veterinary

medicine),science, research and on-farm investigation was my job!

 

The concept of adaptation is accepted widely in MAINSTREAM WM. It

includes the body's feedback and feedforward systems, sensory and

motor nervous system, including the neuroendocrine, autonomic and

the immune systems and factors that influence these systems.

 

Therefore, Ed, it is factually incorrect to state that " WM only looks at

" bacteria " or " viral " and seeks to eliminate them, or that the " the thought

process is on different planes " .

 

This Discussion List and many other CAM/TCM/Herbal/Acupuncture

Lists have many WM physicians, nurses, physios, dentists and vets.

Most of these (including me) are integrating TCM concepts daily

alongside our WM training in our clinical work.

 

EVEN IF WE PRACTICE MAINLY TCM today, we cannot and do not

forget the invaluable WM training that we received.

 

I only wish that most WM professionals ALSO made it their business to

study other systems, such as TCM. I also wish that those highly trained

in TCM would ALSO make it their business to study WM!

 

BOTH are valuable systems. Both have their weaknesses and

strengths, and each side can (even should) learn from the other.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil

 

As true as this is.....'the system' - those in control - doesn't want to ever

see this happen regardless of what lip service they may give at any moment in

order to make the co-job look good.

 

Of course it doesn't mean that we should forget about fighting the battles to

make it happen.

 

Richard

 

 

I responded because I and many other professionals trained in basic

WM/WVM + at least one other CAM method feel strongly that

integration of knowledge and practice from different systems improves

our clinical results.

 

HOW integration can be achieved more formally (and respecting the

integrity and training of people from different disciplines) in state

medicine remains a very difficult, but different, question.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Phil, my apology to you and the profession. I over spoke

with such a broad stroke.

Speaking only for myself, my area of expertise - a la Sate

of California license, not peer review, is TCM, and my

intention was/is to distinguish a difference between what I

can speak of (TCM) and what I should not speak of - western

medicine.

 

live free and healthy

 

Ed Kasper L.Ac.,Santa Cruz, CA.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed, & All,

 

Ed Kasper wrote:

> Phil, my apology to you and the profession. I over spoke with such a

> broad stroke. Speaking only for myself, my area of expertise - a la

> Sate of California license, not peer review, is TCM, and my intention

> was/is to distinguish a difference between what I can speak of (TCM)

> and what I should not speak of - western medicine.

 

No offence taken, Ed.

 

I responded because I and many other professionals trained in basic

WM/WVM + at least one other CAM method feel strongly that

integration of knowledge and practice from different systems improves

our clinical results.

 

HOW integration can be achieved more formally (and respecting the

integrity and training of people from different disciplines) in state

medicine remains a very difficult, but different, question.

 

Best regards,