Guest guest Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 , " Marjorie Davidson " <mdavid wrote: > > Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? Hydrocele is largely equivalent to the CM disease of " water mounting. " Textbook treatment for water mounting is: MEDICATION: Expel water and move qi using variations of wu ling san (Poria Five Powder) for mild cases, and yu gong san (Water Controller Yu Powder) for severe cases. ACUPUNCTURE: Base treatment mainly on LR, ST, and SP. Select LR-8, ST- 28, SP-9, CV-3 (ren 3), LR-4, and LR-1; needle with drainage. Add moxa for cold patterns. From the Practical Dictionary of . Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Thank you for your response. I am wondering how long this may take? A hard question to answer probably. My patient thinks that maybe the testicle is starting to feel a little harder again, already. - " Eric Brand " <smilinglotus Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:44 PM Re: hydrocele , " Marjorie Davidson " <mdavid wrote: > > Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? Hydrocele is largely equivalent to the CM disease of " water mounting. " Textbook treatment for water mounting is: MEDICATION: Expel water and move qi using variations of wu ling san (Poria Five Powder) for mild cases, and yu gong san (Water Controller Yu Powder) for severe cases. ACUPUNCTURE: Base treatment mainly on LR, ST, and SP. Select LR-8, ST- 28, SP-9, CV-3 (ren 3), LR-4, and LR-1; needle with drainage. Add moxa for cold patterns. From the Practical Dictionary of . Eric Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Marjorie, You might look up shan disorder in the Wiseman Dictionary and see if any of the descriptions there match your patient. It might be called mounting shan. I don't have the dictionary here at hand, or I'd look it up for you. --- Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: > Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? > I have one patient who had his testicle drained a few weeks ago. I started > treating him with herbs and acupuncture. > One testicle was normal but the other was severely enlarged, not causing any > pain, just uncomfortable. > His Liver pulse was very weak. Interestingly while lying on his abdomen his > liver pulse is weaker than while he is lying on his front. Can anyone > explain this? I was not aware of this phenomenon before, perhaps it is quite > common. > > I am using herbs for warming liver and kidneys, moving liver qi, dissolving > damp, although he isn't an excessive damp type. He is very very thin, 45 yrs > old and balding. > > I gave him an acupuncture treatment yesterday...some of the points I have > used are > Lv 8, Lv 14, Bl 18, P6, Sp 6, Lv 3, Sp 9, K7, R3, K3 > Can anyone shed some light on this case? > He doesn't have a lot of other symptoms. > His spleen pulse was also rather weak, but not as much so as his liver. > If you can help, thanks very much in advance. > > Marjorie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Your patient may find that it is less of a problem in the morning and worse in the evening. This probably has to do with the gravity pulling fluids into the scrotum or testicles. In a related note, it was the custom in ancient Rome for men to place their right hand on their testicles when taking an oath. The modern term of " testimony " is derived from this tradition. Personally, placing my hands on my testicles would probably get me to be more truthful than placing my hand on a bible as is the tradition in American courts, but that's just me. -al. On 5/29/06, Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: > > Thank you for your response. > I am wondering how long this may take? A hard question to answer probably. > My patient thinks that maybe the testicle is starting to feel a little > harder again, already. > -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 thank you for your responses. I am trying most of these herbs. I shall add some others. best regards, Marjorie Quoting Danny Johnson <danny: > If you haven't tried it yet and the presentation fits, you may want > to look into the formula Nuan Gan Jian: > Dang Gui, Gou Qi Zi, Xiao Hui Xiang, Rou Gui, Wu Yao, Chen Xiang, Fu > Ling, Sheng Jiang > > -Danny > > > > > I am using herbs for warming liver and kidneys, moving liver qi, > > dissolving > > damp, although he isn't an excessive damp type. He is very very > > thin, 45 yrs > > old and balding. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I spent 6+ years with slowly developing hydrocele. The swelling accelerated near the end. Ju He Wan (Bensky 1st edition p. 298) was my primary formula. Stomach 30 is an effective point. Ultimately these therapies did not prevent the need for surgery. The surgery was 2 years ago and there has been no sign of reoccurrence. Tom Hurrle " Marjorie Davidson " mdavid Sun May 28, 2006 11:26pm(PDT) hydrocele Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? I have one patient who had his testicle drained a few weeks ago. I started treating him with herbs and acupuncture. One testicle was normal but the other was severely enlarged, not causing any pain, just uncomfortable. His Liver pulse was very weak. Interestingly while lying on his abdomen his liver pulse is weaker than while he is lying on his front. Can anyone explain this? I was not aware of this phenomenon before, perhaps it is quite common. I am using herbs for warming liver and kidneys, moving liver qi, dissolving damp, although he isn't an excessive damp type. He is very very thin, 45 yrs old and balding. I gave him an acupuncture treatment yesterday...some of the points I have used are Lv 8, Lv 14, Bl 18, P6, Sp 6, Lv 3, Sp 9, K7, R3, K3 Can anyone shed some light on this case? He doesn't have a lot of other symptoms. His spleen pulse was also rather weak, but not as much so as his liver. If you can help, thanks very much in advance. Marjorie ______________________ ______________________ Message 5 " Eric Brand " smilinglotus Sun May 28, 2006 11:44pm(PDT) Re: hydrocele , " Marjorie Davidson " <mdavid wrote: > > Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? Hydrocele is largely equivalent to the CM disease of " water mounting. " Textbook treatment for water mounting is: MEDICATION: Expel water and move qi using variations of wu ling san (Poria Five Powder) for mild cases, and yu gong san (Water Controller Yu Powder) for severe cases. ACUPUNCTURE: Base treatment mainly on LR, ST, and SP. Select LR-8, ST- 28, SP-9, CV-3 (ren 3), LR-4, and LR-1; needle with drainage. Add moxa for cold patterns. >From the Practical Dictionary of . Eric ______________________ ______________________ Message 6 " " Mon May 29, 2006 8:17am(PDT) Re: hydrocele Marjorie, You might look up shan disorder in the Wiseman Dictionary and see if any of the descriptions there match your patient. It might be called mounting shan. I don't have the dictionary here at hand, or I'd look it up for you. --- Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: > Would anyone have any experience at treating hydrocele? > I have one patient who had his testicle drained a few weeks ago. I started > treating him with herbs and acupuncture. > One testicle was normal but the other was severely enlarged, not causing any > pain, just uncomfortable. > His Liver pulse was very weak. Interestingly while lying on his abdomen his > liver pulse is weaker than while he is lying on his front. Can anyone > explain this? I was not aware of this phenomenon before, perhaps it is quite > common. > > I am using herbs for warming liver and kidneys, moving liver qi, dissolving > damp, although he isn't an excessive damp type. He is very very thin, 45 yrs > old and balding. > > I gave him an acupuncture treatment yesterday...some of the points I have > used are > Lv 8, Lv 14, Bl 18, P6, Sp 6, Lv 3, Sp 9, K7, R3, K3 > Can anyone shed some light on this case? > He doesn't have a lot of other symptoms. > His spleen pulse was also rather weak, but not as much so as his liver. > If you can help, thanks very much in advance. > > Marjorie > If you haven't tried it yet and the presentation fits, you may want to look into the formula Nuan Gan Jian: Dang Gui, Gou Qi Zi, Xiao Hui Xiang, Rou Gui, Wu Yao, Chen Xiang, Fu Ling, Sheng Jiang -Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the testicles. I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with herbs and acupuncture. Thanks, Marjorie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I had one case earlier this summer. A literature search revealed little except treatment of pediatric hydrocele, my patient is an adult. I used Wu Ling San + acupuncture. We got some reduction, about 20%, and then stalled out. The patient moved away at that point, so I never got a chance to use plan B (no, not that plan B). Avery On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:30:21 -0400, Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. > in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the > testicles. > I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with > herbs and acupuncture. > Thanks, > Marjorie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 I also have a current adult pt with hydrocele. I am in the stalling out phase, I guess although we have not given up yet. The hydrocele has been around for about a year, and some say that it takes a month of intensive tx to clear each year of the problem. One complicating factor in this case is pot smoking. Marjorie, I would like to chat with you some more off list if possible. Thanks, Sandy River, LAc mountainlaurel Chinese Medicine , " Dr. Avery Jenkins " <docaltmed wrote: > > I had one case earlier this summer. A literature search revealed little > except treatment of pediatric hydrocele, my patient is an adult. I used Wu > Ling San + acupuncture. We got some reduction, about 20%, and then stalled > out. The patient moved away at that point, so I never got a chance to use > plan B (no, not that plan B). > > Avery > > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:30:21 -0400, Marjorie Davidson > <mdavid wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. > > in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the > > testicles. > > I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with > > herbs and acupuncture. > > Thanks, > > Marjorie > Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN > Chiropractic Physician > Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists > Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition > www.docaltmed.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I had a patient who responded well to treatment. Besides having hydrocele, he was also impotent (he was only 30 yrs old if I remember well). Sometimes he would drink a lot of alcohol, and his mind was clouded. I treated him with a ju he wan variation and with acupuncture focusing on the Liver channel. Regards, Tom. ---- sandylaurel2003 09/25/06 05:21:46 Chinese Medicine Re: hydrocele I also have a current adult pt with hydrocele. I am in the stalling out phase, I guess although we have not given up yet. The hydrocele has been around for about a year, and some say that it takes a month of intensive tx to clear each year of the problem. One complicating factor in this case is pot smoking. Marjorie, I would like to chat with you some more off list if possible. Thanks, Sandy River, LAc mountainlaurel Chinese Medicine , " Dr. Avery Jenkins " <docaltmed wrote: > > I had one case earlier this summer. A literature search revealed little > except treatment of pediatric hydrocele, my patient is an adult. I used Wu > Ling San + acupuncture. We got some reduction, about 20%, and then stalled > out. The patient moved away at that point, so I never got a chance to use > plan B (no, not that plan B). > > Avery > > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:30:21 -0400, Marjorie Davidson > <mdavid wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. > > in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the > > testicles. > > I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with > > herbs and acupuncture. > > Thanks, > > Marjorie > Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN > Chiropractic Physician > Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists > Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition > www.docaltmed.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hi, we have treated 2 peoples yet for hydrocele with acupuncture only and rate of success was good. we treated them considering liver, lung and spleen channels. Gradually there was good response sincerely, chintamani. Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote: I had a patient who responded well to treatment. Besides having hydrocele, he was also impotent (he was only 30 yrs old if I remember well). Sometimes he would drink a lot of alcohol, and his mind was clouded. I treated him with a ju he wan variation and with acupuncture focusing on the Liver channel. Regards, Tom. ---- sandylaurel2003 09/25/06 05:21:46 Chinese Medicine Re: hydrocele I also have a current adult pt with hydrocele. I am in the stalling out phase, I guess although we have not given up yet. The hydrocele has been around for about a year, and some say that it takes a month of intensive tx to clear each year of the problem. One complicating factor in this case is pot smoking. Marjorie, I would like to chat with you some more off list if possible. Thanks, Sandy River, LAc mountainlaurel Chinese Medicine , " Dr. Avery Jenkins " <docaltmed wrote: > > I had one case earlier this summer. A literature search revealed little > except treatment of pediatric hydrocele, my patient is an adult. I used Wu > Ling San + acupuncture. We got some reduction, about 20%, and then stalled > out. The patient moved away at that point, so I never got a chance to use > plan B (no, not that plan B). > > Avery > > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:30:21 -0400, Marjorie Davidson > <mdavid wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. > > in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the > > testicles. > > I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with > > herbs and acupuncture. > > Thanks, > > Marjorie > Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN > Chiropractic Physician > Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists > Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition > www.docaltmed.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Thank Dr Jenkins, There doesn't seem to be much information, or much incidence of hydrocele. It must be out there though, perhaps under something more TCM described, like dampness in the lower jiao or something? He really doesn't present like damp, even though it is a " condition of dampness " He is so thin it's a little unnerving. He lost 20 lbs a few months ago, before I started treating him. He had the operation to have the fluid drained a few months ago. Now, the fluid is increasing again but more slowly while doing herbs & acupuncture then previously when this condition started developing 2 yrs ago before the TCM treatment. I am not thrilled with the progress. Any more feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for your response. Marjorie - " Dr. Avery Jenkins " <docaltmed <Chinese Medicine > Friday, September 22, 2006 7:29 AM Re: hydrocele > I had one case earlier this summer. A literature search revealed little > except treatment of pediatric hydrocele, my patient is an adult. I used Wu > Ling San + acupuncture. We got some reduction, about 20%, and then stalled > out. The patient moved away at that point, so I never got a chance to use > plan B (no, not that plan B). > > Avery > > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:30:21 -0400, Marjorie Davidson > <mdavid wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any experience treating hydrocele. > > in this case a buildup of fluid in the membrane surrounding the > > testicles. > > I am wondering what the success rate is and how long it may take with > > herbs and acupuncture. > > Thanks, > > Marjorie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hi Careful with hydrocele I would immediately refer the patient to a urologist, as cancer may hide behing hydrocele. Docs will generally give strong antiinflamatory, and if no results, will operate. Gaal Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: Might anyone have had experience treating hydrocele? Marjorie - Heiko Lade Monday, September 18, 2006 11:04 PM referral Grantspass I have been treating a patient in New Zealand and they are going back to Grandpass Oregon Can you suggest anyone, its acupuncture for back ache etc Heiko On Behalf Of Sarah Rivkin Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:59 PM strategies for getting herbs into kids Hi all, I was wondering if some of you skilled pediatric practioners on the list would share any strategies you might have for getting herbs into young children, especially raw herbs. With my own (almost 3 y.o.) daughter, I've managed small doses of tinctures (with the alcohol evaporated) in a beverage or (my latest discovery) mixed with liquid vitamins. Parents of patients of mine have reported good success with these methods as well. I had heard that you could cook water-based decoctions down to further reduce the liquid, but I usually end up burning the herbs in the process--and the only success I've had with the end results has been with gui zhi tang and other sweet formulas. Other formulas I've tried this method with must have too unpleasant a taste for little palates.(Is there some refinement to this method that I'm missing? I usually remove the herbs and just boil down the liquid.) Of course there are jouks and medicinal pastries, but I'm suspecting these wouldn't pass the toddler taste test, if made with bitter/cold/sour/etc. herbs, and adding sweetener would kind of defeat the purpose? TIA, Sarah Sarah E. Rivkin, MS, LAc, Dipl. OM www.slopeacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hi, thanks for your response. My patient is under a medical doctor's care. He has actually had surgery, which we know is just a temporary fix. I have been wondering about the cancer possibility, but am hoping his medical dr is on top of that, such as tests, etc. He is very thin, and can't seem to keep any weight on. Marjorie - Gaal Cohen Friday, October 06, 2006 8:07 AM Re: hydrocele Hi Careful with hydrocele I would immediately refer the patient to a urologist, as cancer may hide behing hydrocele. Docs will generally give strong antiinflamatory, and if no results, will operate. Gaal Marjorie Davidson <mdavid wrote: Might anyone have had experience treating hydrocele? Marjorie - Heiko Lade Monday, September 18, 2006 11:04 PM referral Grantspass I have been treating a patient in New Zealand and they are going back to Grandpass Oregon Can you suggest anyone, its acupuncture for back ache etc Heiko On Behalf Of Sarah Rivkin Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:59 PM strategies for getting herbs into kids Hi all, I was wondering if some of you skilled pediatric practioners on the list would share any strategies you might have for getting herbs into young children, especially raw herbs. With my own (almost 3 y.o.) daughter, I've managed small doses of tinctures (with the alcohol evaporated) in a beverage or (my latest discovery) mixed with liquid vitamins. Parents of patients of mine have reported good success with these methods as well. I had heard that you could cook water-based decoctions down to further reduce the liquid, but I usually end up burning the herbs in the process--and the only success I've had with the end results has been with gui zhi tang and other sweet formulas. Other formulas I've tried this method with must have too unpleasant a taste for little palates.(Is there some refinement to this method that I'm missing? I usually remove the herbs and just boil down the liquid.) Of course there are jouks and medicinal pastries, but I'm suspecting these wouldn't pass the toddler taste test, if made with bitter/cold/sour/etc. herbs, and adding sweetener would kind of defeat the purpose? TIA, Sarah Sarah E. Rivkin, MS, LAc, Dipl. OM www.slopeacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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