benzodiazapine intoxication as brain phlegm

[Guest guest]

Dear Jason,

 

Thank you for your post on detox for SSRIs and Benzodiazapines. Like with all

addictions, as you correctly point out, there is an inherent yin xu. The

craving to any substance is clearly an indication of vacuity--a desparate need

to " fill in the spaces " , and why withdrawal becomes so difficult. However, that

being said, I find that often the yin xu is complicated by either a spleen or

heart qi xu, liver qi stagnation, a mix of replete and vacuitous heat or even a

concurrent yang xu. I am also intrigued by your observation that all drug

addiction can be classified as phlegm in the brain. It does, indeed follow the

pattern of erratic compulsive behavior being a component of phlegm, both

tangible and invisible. What, though is your source to differentiate drug

addiction as brain phlegm?

 

Sincerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM

 

jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

Chinese Medicine , " jasonwcom "

<jasonwcom wrote:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention phlegm, all brain toxicity from drugs

whether ssris or benzos can be viewed as phlegm in the head. Good

herbs are yuan zhi and chang pu, or gui pi wan tonic for the spleen.

Treat the spleen to boost its transformation of phlegm, you can do

st40 sp3 source/luo or just do st40 and sp6, moxa sp shu...>

 

> For benzos use a lot of yin points like kd 3, head points like si

> shen cong, and heart calming points like shen men. 4 gates is good

> too. Kd point in the ear is very good. Moxa under t7 then bl23

> then bl52 to boost willpower. You could use yin boosting herbs

> like mai wei di huang wan or the formula you mentioned is good too,

> it depends on your prespective.

>

> Chinese Medicine , yehuda

> frischman <@> wrote:

> >

> > Speaking of getting off of SSRI's, could anyone share with me

> procotols for getting off of long term addiction to

> benzodiazapines? (besides the obvious use of NADA protocol and and

> Chai hu jia long gu mu li tang).

> >

> > Yehuda

> >

> > robb thurston <robb7thurston@> wrote:

> > Hi! I am a former employee of the staff of Emperor's

> College, in Santa

> > Monica, and am a friend of Drs. Dan Bensky and Volker Scheid. I

> keep in

> > touch with Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine and Bastyr

> Universioty.

> > I have a lot of concern with S.S.R.I.s, their energetic (TCM)

> nature

> > and balancing their toxicity. Some while back I corresponded with

> Dr. Z'ev

> > Rosenberg, and he wrote the following article. In the article he

> discusses

> > an approach to Prozac from the perspective of energetic medicine.

> >

> > Acupuncture.Com - Herbal Remedies - Western

> > Drugs<http://www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm>By

> > ** From Oriental Medicine Journal. Chinese herbs

are

> described

> > in terms of their energetic properties. An herb that enters the

> lung

> > meridian *...*

> > www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm - 49k -

> > Cached<http://66.102.7.104/custom?

> q=cache:QqqfvPbZ46IJ:www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm+%22%27+z%

> 27ev+rosenberg-%22+%22s.s.r.i.s-%22 & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=3 & ie=UTF-

> 8>-

> > Similar pages<http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en & lr= & ie=UTF-

> 8 & safe=off & cof=AWFID:0b9847e42caf283e%

> 3BL:http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home%3BLH:48%3BLW:72%3BBGC:white%

> 3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%23000099%3BVLC:%23660066%3BALC:%23ff3300%

3BGALT:%

> 23008000%3BGFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%23000099%

> 3BLBGC:white%3BAH:left%

>

3B & domains=www.w3.org & q=related:www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm>

> >

> > After I saw this article, I asked for Dr. Subuti Dharmananda's

> > comments, and he wrote the following article.

> >

> > *SSRI Withdrawal Procedure: Getting Off Antidepressants May Be

> Made Easier*

> > The use of antidepressants has been steadily increasing since

they

> were

> > first developed 50 years ago, with no end in sight. These drugs

> are not only

> > used for what might be considered a neurologically depressed

> mental state:

> > about half the

> > *... SSRI Withdrawal Procedure: Getting Off Antidepressants May

Be

> Made

> > Easier ...*

> > http://www.itmonline.org/ arts/ ssri.htm

> > <http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ssri.htm> - 27k

> >

> > Both these articles present observations which are extremely

> valuable,

> > and I do not find much more said on the subject. Please, if you

> have

> > contact with more information and observations on treatment of

> patients

> > undergoing S.S.R.I. therapy, and TCM, would you please contact

me.

> I should

> > appreciate it a lot. Thank you for your help.

> > Please kindly write here:

> > robb7thurston@

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Of course there is a mix of symptoms, as with any condition in

clinical practice, I think its important to diagnose individual

mental and physical symptoms as just that, for example: A person

could have a strong yang(body constitution) in general but the

mental yang function of kidney(zhi) is weak so they have no

willpower and can't get out of bed(like manic depression), kidney is

not functioning properly there will be some physical symptoms but

they could still have a strong body overall. When you say stuff

like spleen/heart qi def., its not specific enough terms because

that could just be poor digestion and weak heart not mental at all.

Mental function of spleen relates to over-thinking(which can damage

the spleen's physical) and mental function of heart relates to

perception and the physical heart is damaged by anxiety or excessive

joy. Liver is confusing because physical qi stagnation will make a

person not feel well all over and that affects the mental well-being

in general, anger damages the liver organ further...I just know what

my teachers have taught me and from my own experience. All mental

function is ruled by the heart spirt(shen)Mental function is yang

(you can't see it, it's energy) psyche drugs boost that mental

function(yang)in the short term, therefore drugs are heat, of course

there are no free rides in life and there is a side effect- the

depletion of yin. Dull thinking of the type brought on by benzos(I

have seen many many benzo addicted people before)can be catagorized

in tcm as phlegm clouding the heart orifice or phlegm in the head,

you might not be able to see a greasy coat on the tongue because the

YIN is so deficient, or be able to feel a slippery pulse, because

its so thready(this is my experience, your patient may be

different). Also taking any pure compound not found in nature will

tax the liver and everyone has some liver problems anyway most

likely, because the liver is an overworked organ in out toxic

stressed society. Kidney yin tonics will not really boost the

willpower(zhi) much but they will support the overall body health

which will make whatever you do with acupuncture work better.

Taking chai hu mu li or jia wei xiao yao wan will detox the liver

and benefit the person's mental state, gui pi wan will detox phlegm

and calm their mind, you have several choices for herbs all which

are pretty good I think. Do a standard tcm diagnosis based on

tongue and pulse and try to choose the most appropriate formula to

balance the most significant xs/def as you percieve it, also you

could think: " which formula is going to help this person quit? "

Then once they do treat withdrawal symptomatically - for example-

they're shaking- do wind and liver points(like gb20, liver 3, sp6)

they are angry give chai hu mu li, liver in the ear, 4 gates, liver

4...Anxiety maybe gui pi wan or an shen bu xin wan needle heart mind

calming points, low energy boost qi, etc... In general as I said

before meds are heat so cool the body and boost kidney yin- head

needles are key because they cool the brain and clear the thinking.

The major points for willpower are kid ear point and kidney 3 and

you could do that back moxa thing...Good luck,

-JB

 

 

Chinese Medicine , yehuda

frischman < wrote:

>

> Dear Jason,

>

> Thank you for your post on detox for SSRIs and Benzodiazapines.

Like with all addictions, as you correctly point out, there is an

inherent yin xu. The craving to any substance is clearly an

indication of vacuity--a desparate need to " fill in the spaces " , and

why withdrawal becomes so difficult. However, that being said, I

find that often the yin xu is complicated by either a spleen or

heart qi xu, liver qi stagnation, a mix of replete and vacuitous

heat or even a concurrent yang xu. I am also intrigued by your

observation that all drug addiction can be classified as phlegm in

the brain. It does, indeed follow the pattern of erratic

compulsive behavior being a component of phlegm, both tangible and

invisible. What, though is your source to differentiate drug

addiction as brain phlegm?

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM

>

> jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

> --- In

Chinese Medicine , " jasonwcom "

> <jasonwcom@> wrote:

> Oh yeah, I forgot to mention phlegm, all brain toxicity from drugs

> whether ssris or benzos can be viewed as phlegm in the head. Good

> herbs are yuan zhi and chang pu, or gui pi wan tonic for the

spleen.

> Treat the spleen to boost its transformation of phlegm, you can do

> st40 sp3 source/luo or just do st40 and sp6, moxa sp shu...>

>

> > For benzos use a lot of yin points like kd 3, head points like

si

> > shen cong, and heart calming points like shen men. 4 gates is

good

> > too. Kd point in the ear is very good. Moxa under t7 then bl23

> > then bl52 to boost willpower. You could use yin boosting herbs

> > like mai wei di huang wan or the formula you mentioned is good

too,

> > it depends on your prespective.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , yehuda

> > frischman <@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Speaking of getting off of SSRI's, could anyone share with me

> > procotols for getting off of long term addiction to

> > benzodiazapines? (besides the obvious use of NADA protocol and

and

> > Chai hu jia long gu mu li tang).

> > >

> > > Yehuda

> > >

> > > robb thurston <robb7thurston@> wrote:

> > > Hi! I am a former employee of the staff of Emperor's

> > College, in Santa

> > > Monica, and am a friend of Drs. Dan Bensky and Volker Scheid.

I

> > keep in

> > > touch with Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine and Bastyr

> > Universioty.

> > > I have a lot of concern with S.S.R.I.s, their energetic (TCM)

> > nature

> > > and balancing their toxicity. Some while back I corresponded

with

> > Dr. Z'ev

> > > Rosenberg, and he wrote the following article. In the article

he

> > discusses

> > > an approach to Prozac from the perspective of energetic

medicine.

> > >

> > > Acupuncture.Com - Herbal Remedies - Western

> > > Drugs<http://www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm>By

> > > ** From Oriental Medicine Journal. Chinese herbs

> are

> > described

> > > in terms of their energetic properties. An herb that enters

the

> > lung

> > > meridian *...*

> > > www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm - 49k -

> > > Cached<http://66.102.7.104/custom?

> > q=cache:QqqfvPbZ46IJ:www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm+%22%

27+z%

> > 27ev+rosenberg-%22+%22s.s.r.i.s-%

22 & hl=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=3 & ie=UTF-

> > 8>-

> > > Similar pages<http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en & lr= & ie=UTF-

> > 8 & safe=off & cof=AWFID:0b9847e42caf283e%

> > 3BL:http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home%3BLH:48%3BLW:72%3BBGC:white%

> > 3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%23000099%3BVLC:%23660066%3BALC:%23ff3300%

> 3BGALT:%

> > 23008000%3BGFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%23000099%

> > 3BLBGC:white%3BAH:left%

> >

>

3B & domains=www.w3.org & q=related:www.acupuncture.com/herbs/pharma.htm>

> > >

> > > After I saw this article, I asked for Dr. Subuti Dharmananda's

> > > comments, and he wrote the following article.

> > >

> > > *SSRI Withdrawal Procedure: Getting Off Antidepressants May Be

> > Made Easier*

> > > The use of antidepressants has been steadily increasing since

> they

> > were

> > > first developed 50 years ago, with no end in sight. These

drugs

> > are not only

> > > used for what might be considered a neurologically depressed

> > mental state:

> > > about half the

> > > *... SSRI Withdrawal Procedure: Getting Off Antidepressants

May

> Be

> > Made

> > > Easier ...*

> > > http://www.itmonline.org/ arts/ ssri.htm

> > > <http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ssri.htm> - 27k

> > >

> > > Both these articles present observations which are extremely

> > valuable,

> > > and I do not find much more said on the subject. Please, if

you

> > have

> > > contact with more information and observations on treatment of

> > patients

> > > undergoing S.S.R.I. therapy, and TCM, would you please contact

> me.

> > I should

> > > appreciate it a lot. Thank you for your help.

> > > Please kindly write here:

> > > robb7thurston@

> > >

> > >