Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hello people in the acupuncture community, I am first curious if there is anyone has just taken the NCCAOM exam in June? I ask because I would like feedback on your experience. I also encourage everyone who is upset with the unprofessional, low quality and chaotic exams to not only write letters to the nccaom clearly stating the reasons you are upset, but also to mail and email the NOCA (noca.org, info) which is the organization that certifies the nccaom. After talking directly to several people who have contacted the nccaom directly I would also encourage everyone to email acupuncture today (editorial) in hopes that if they receive enough information they will investigate and write an article that could actually make the nccaom realize just how upset the acupuncture community is. I believe it is fair to contact acupuncture today because after contacting the nccaom several people have stated that the nccaom did not want to even talk about their complaints and stated that they met over the weekend and have fixed all the problems with the exam. As you will see later in this posting the exam has no hope of being fixed in one weekend, its faults and failures are far too great. First that I would like to note that for all current practioners who may not know this past February the nccaom canceled the exam stating that a significant number of questions had been leaked and that they would be redoing all of the exams. There would also be a new computer based multiple choice format. The first warning flag in this story is that the nccaom wanted to re- write 5 examinations in under 6 months. Re-writing even one exam in 6 months would still be a large undertaking. Also as late as May 4th the nccaom was still holding " Item writing events " calling to the acupuncture community to help them in their mad dash to re-write all the examinations. In 2002 when the nccaom decided to rewrite the point location exam (one exam); they hired Applied Measurements Professionals and ran a pilot study, conducted extensive psychometric and statistical analyses of the performance data and they analyzed candidate feedback. (http://www.nccaom.org/newpleformat.htm) In 2006 when they choose to rewrite 5 exams they and introduce a new format and testing procedure, they did not even spell check the questions before using them in a live testing environment. I am a poor speller and even I got frustrated at the huge amount of mis- spellings. Further on one of the tests I took I had 3 of the same exact questions. When asked about this the unofficial nccaom response is that kind of thing happens when a computer randomly picks questions. Ok, my career before starting acupuncture was doing computer/database programming and that response is totally false. Even further beyond that more than a handful of times I had questions where either all the answers were correct or none of the questions were correct. After talking and hearing about a large amount of test takers experiences many people spent a large amount of time commenting on the failings of questions or trying to spend time explaining how there were not any correct answers. Some did not even have enough time to finish the exam because they commented so much. I have taken test of this sort before and I know better than to spend a lot of time commenting, that is why I find it appalling that the nccaom had no interest in hearing my issues with the exam. Then 2 weeks later I receive an email from the nccaom: " We are aware that there was a problem with the Point Location Examination you completed during the June/July test administration. We will be able to offer you a retest August 1- 31. You will receive the information about registration early next week via email and regular mail. We apologize for the inconvenience. " Ok I can understand that I have to retake it because the test was so poorly done in the first place that they had to throw it out. Then I talk to a couple of people and they said that they were informed that they passed the point location exam. Now we had chatted after we finished the exam and we had at least 10 of the same questionable questions. There were only 25 questions total in the point location module, so if we both had 10 questions that had to be thrown out how come he passed and I have to retake the exam. This is just the start of my experience and I am sure that I am not alone in my disgust and frustration. I hope that even single person who feels similar to me will spend a small amount of time emailing and writing to the proper channels so that appropriate actions can be taken. - Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 The exam is just one part of NCCAOM disfunction; they lose letters, checks and don't respond to inquiries. Malcolm --- James Eleczko <qihealer wrote: > > Hello people in the acupuncture community, > > I am first curious if there is anyone has just taken > the NCCAOM exam > in June? I ask because I would like feedback on your > experience. > > I also encourage everyone who is upset with the > unprofessional, low > quality and chaotic exams to not only write letters > to the nccaom > clearly stating the reasons you are upset, but also > to mail and email > the NOCA (noca.org, info) which is the > organization that > certifies the nccaom. > > After talking directly to several people who have > contacted the > nccaom directly I would also encourage everyone to > email acupuncture > today (editorial) in hopes that > if they receive > enough information they will investigate and write > an article that > could actually make the nccaom realize just how > upset the acupuncture > community is. > > I believe it is fair to contact acupuncture today > because after > contacting the nccaom several people have stated > that the nccaom did > not want to even talk about their complaints and > stated that they met > over the weekend and have fixed all the problems > with the exam. As > you will see later in this posting the exam has no > hope of being > fixed in one weekend, its faults and failures are > far too great. > > First that I would like to note that for all current > practioners who > may not know this past February the nccaom canceled > the exam stating > that a significant number of questions had been > leaked and that they > would be redoing all of the exams. There would also > be a new > computer based multiple choice format. > > The first warning flag in this story is that the > nccaom wanted to re- > write 5 examinations in under 6 months. Re-writing > even one exam in > 6 months would still be a large undertaking. Also > as late as May 4th > the nccaom was still holding " Item writing events " > calling to the > acupuncture community to help them in their mad dash > to re-write all > the examinations. > > In 2002 when the nccaom decided to rewrite the point > location exam > (one exam); they hired Applied Measurements > Professionals and ran a > pilot study, conducted extensive psychometric and > statistical > analyses of the performance data and they analyzed > candidate > feedback. (http://www.nccaom.org/newpleformat.htm) > > In 2006 when they choose to rewrite 5 exams they and > introduce a new > format and testing procedure, they did not even > spell check the > questions before using them in a live testing > environment. I am a > poor speller and even I got frustrated at the huge > amount of mis- > spellings. > > Further on one of the tests I took I had 3 of the > same exact > questions. When asked about this the unofficial > nccaom response is > that kind of thing happens when a computer randomly > picks questions. > Ok, my career before starting acupuncture was doing > computer/database > programming and that response is totally false. Even > further beyond > that more than a handful of times I had questions > where either all > the answers were correct or none of the questions > were correct. > > After talking and hearing about a large amount of > test takers > experiences many people spent a large amount of time > commenting on > the failings of questions or trying to spend time > explaining how > there were not any correct answers. Some did not > even have enough > time to finish the exam because they commented so > much. I have taken > test of this sort before and I know better than to > spend a lot of > time commenting, that is why I find it appalling > that the nccaom had > no interest in hearing my issues with the exam. > > Then 2 weeks later I receive an email from the > nccaom: > > " We are aware that there was a problem with the > Point Location > Examination you completed during the June/July test > administration. > We will be able to offer you a retest August 1- 31. > You will receive > the information about registration early next week > via email and > regular mail. We apologize for the inconvenience. " > > Ok I can understand that I have to retake it because > the test was so > poorly done in the first place that they had to > throw it out. Then I > talk to a couple of people and they said that they > were informed that > they passed the point location exam. Now we had > chatted after we > finished the exam and we had at least 10 of the same > questionable > questions. There were only 25 questions total in > the point location > module, so if we both had 10 questions that had to > be thrown out how > come he passed and I have to retake the exam. > > > This is just the start of my experience and I am > sure that I am not > alone in my disgust and frustration. I hope that > even single person > who feels similar to me will spend a small amount of > time emailing > and writing to the proper channels so that > appropriate actions can be > taken. > > - Jim > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hi All, If we could curtail this thread, that would be great. In future if people have inquiries like this, they can post it to the list, but MUST ask people to respond to them off-list. While it impacts some of the members on the list, it only applies to those in the US. Thanks, Mark Quoting James Eleczko <qihealer: > > Hello people in the acupuncture community, > > I am first curious if there is anyone has just taken the NCCAOM exam > in June? I ask because I would like feedback on your experience. > > I also encourage everyone who is upset with the unprofessional, low > quality and chaotic exams to not only write letters to the nccaom > clearly stating the reasons you are upset, but also to mail and email > the NOCA (noca.org, info) which is the organization that > certifies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 With all due respect, Mark, I take exception to your curtailing of this thread on the basis of your contention that it 'only applies to those in the US.' The world is no longer that provincial (if in fact it ever truly was.) Any issue that reflects upon the standards and credibility of the professional practice of Chinese medicine, even in a single jurisdiction, is of global significance and affects us all. best, Simcha Gottlieb, L.Ac. you wrote: >>>>If we could curtail this thread, that would be great. In future if people have inquiries like this, they can post it to the list, but MUST ask people to respond to them off-list. While it impacts some of the members on the list, it only applies to those in the US. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Thank you Simcha. I think this is potentially a major issue in the TCM community in the US and even worldwide and it should be open for discussion here IMO. I had my battles with NCCAOM as well. I think they need a major overhaul and they need to be held accountable for their actions. Who holds NCCAOM accountable? Who has oversight over NCCAOM? It disturbs me that such a poorly run organization is so central to the practice of Chinese medicine in the US. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Simcha Gottlieb Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:30 AM Chinese Medicine Re: last round of nCcaom examinations With all due respect, Mark, I take exception to your curtailing of this thread on the basis of your contention that it 'only applies to those in the US.' The world is no longer that provincial (if in fact it ever truly was.) Any issue that reflects upon the standards and credibility of the professional practice of Chinese medicine, even in a single jurisdiction, is of global significance and affects us all. best, Simcha Gottlieb, L.Ac. you wrote: >>>>If we could curtail this thread, that would be great. In future if people have inquiries like this, they can post it to the list, but MUST ask people to respond to them off-list. While it impacts some of the members on the list, it only applies to those in the US. Thanks, Mark http://mail. <> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I think to some degree the NOCA (National Organization for Competency Assurance) has some measure of control. Probably not that much but a little, from their websites the noca seems to offer more guidance than anything else. From the looks of the current system in place the nccaom does not really report to anyone per-say, rather each state that grants a liscense has found that the nccaom certification is required. Which is pretty lame because there does not seem to really be anyone to apply pressure to the nccaom and get the changes we need. Maybe I am wrong. Jim Chinese Medicine , " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler wrote: > > Thank you Simcha. I think this is potentially a major issue in the TCM > community in the US and even worldwide and it should be open for > discussion here IMO. > > I had my battles with NCCAOM as well. I think they need a major > overhaul and they need to be held accountable for their actions. Who > holds NCCAOM accountable? Who has oversight over NCCAOM? It disturbs > me that such a poorly run organization is so central to the practice of > Chinese medicine in the US. > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. > Oasis Acupuncture > <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte > Suite D-35 > Scottsdale, AZ 85258 > Phone: (480) 991-3650 > > > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > Simcha Gottlieb > Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:30 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: last round of nCcaom examinations > > > > With all due respect, Mark, I take exception to your > curtailing of this thread on the basis of your > contention that it 'only applies to those in the US.' > The world is no longer that provincial (if in fact it > ever truly was.) Any issue that reflects upon the > standards and credibility of the professional practice > of Chinese medicine, even in a single jurisdiction, is > of global significance and affects us all. > > best, > Simcha Gottlieb, L.Ac. > > you wrote: > > >>>>If we could curtail this thread, that would be > great. In future if people have > inquiries like this, they can post it to the list, but > MUST ask people to > respond to them off-list. While it impacts some of the > members on the list, it > only applies to those in the US. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > > > http://mail. <> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I do think this is potentially a major issue too.... Part of the problem is lack of competition, IMO. Mike L. " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler wrote: Thank you Simcha. I think this is potentially a major issue in the TCM community in the US and even worldwide and it should be open for discussion here IMO. I had my battles with NCCAOM as well. I think they need a major overhaul and they need to be held accountable for their actions. Who holds NCCAOM accountable? Who has oversight over NCCAOM? It disturbs me that such a poorly run organization is so central to the practice of Chinese medicine in the US. Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture <http://www.oasisacupuncture.com/> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Simcha Gottlieb Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:30 AM Chinese Medicine Re: last round of nCcaom examinations With all due respect, Mark, I take exception to your curtailing of this thread on the basis of your contention that it 'only applies to those in the US.' The world is no longer that provincial (if in fact it ever truly was.) Any issue that reflects upon the standards and credibility of the professional practice of Chinese medicine, even in a single jurisdiction, is of global significance and affects us all. best, Simcha Gottlieb, L.Ac. you wrote: >>>>If we could curtail this thread, that would be great. In future if people have inquiries like this, they can post it to the list, but MUST ask people to respond to them off-list. While it impacts some of the members on the list, it only applies to those in the US. Thanks, Mark http://mail. <> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 It does seem that the NCCAOM has reached a level of autonomy that is cause for concern (at a minimum, it is quite frustrating). As such, they seem unresponsive to the overwhelming dissatisfaction with their recent behavior. In order to get NCCAOM to change or to concede to a more capable organization, maybe members of our profession should approach those states that require certification by NCCAOM. These states should be enlightened on the deficits of the new NCCAOM credentialing process. Perhaps this would prompt the state licensing committees to test the crediblity of NCCAOM. This would add other challenges to our profession. For example, in questioning the credibility of the NCCAOM, we would also question the credibility of those who have been recently certified by them. But in the end, I believe it would strengthen public confidence in our holistic health services by demonstrating that we are professional enough for honest self-evaluation/regulation. Healthy Regards, Carl M Balingit, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine , " James Eleczko " <qihealer wrote: > > I think to some degree the NOCA (National Organization for Competency > Assurance) has some measure of control. Probably not that much but a > little, from their websites the noca seems to offer more guidance > than anything else. > > From the looks of the current system in place the nccaom does not > really report to anyone per-say, rather each state that grants a > liscense has found that the nccaom certification is required. Which > is pretty lame because there does not seem to really be anyone to > apply pressure to the nccaom and get the changes we need. > > Maybe I am wrong. > > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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