Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Tom: In lieu of taking a course in toxicity of herbs, as well as herb-drug interactions, could you possibly recommend some books that would be helpful. I have the Chen & Chen Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology, as well as Bensky, but I would be interested in reading more about the possibly side-effects, etc. of the formulas that I am about to write for my patients (I hopefully will be finishing my final exams within the month and receiving my degree in Israel). Thank you. Joyce Schwartz - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:15 PM Re: Chinese medicine gave man cancer Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto wrote: > > I just pulled up Bob's old message, thanks for pointing it out Tom. > > Yes, Mu Tong is well known as a banned substance. It's been banned for quite > a few years. The formula must of been imported directly from China and > evaded customs. It just goes to show the lack of a strict control on the > importing of patents into various western countries. > > I'll also keep a look out for other herbs that contain aristolochic acid. > Atillio, I was trying to say that as practitioners, we should know immediately that aristolochic acids in long dan xie gan tang should come from mu tong. You seem to have missed that point. Instead of acknodledging that you didn't think of mu tong you reply with " Yes, Mu Tong is well known as a banned substance. It's been banned for quite a few years. " Did you study Chinese herbs in your curriculum, Attilio? Every Chinese herbal course should at least mention the dangers of toxicity. Chris Dhaenens, a Belgian expert on toxicity laments the fact that only few practitioners show an interest in his courses. He has had a lot of his courses cancelled because of low attendance. On a European level, food supplements including Chinese herbs are being regulated. There is one vacancy to be filled: a pharmacology expert on Chinese herbs. There just is nobody to be found in Europe who is an expert in both pharmacology and Chinese herbs. Actually there is one, a professor emeritus from Germany, but he's too old. So what we have now is that a group of people, including many pharmacologists and MDs ( not one herbalist or acupuncturist) are making decisions about herb regulation. This could turn out very bad for the whole profession. Herbs will be regarded as drugs. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Chinese Medicine , Joyce Schwartz <joyces wrote: > > Tom: In lieu of taking a course in toxicity of herbs, as well as herb-drug interactions, could you possibly recommend some books that would be helpful. I have the Chen & Chen Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology, as well as Bensky, but I would be interested in reading more about the possibly side-effects, etc. of the formulas that I am about to write for my patients (I hopefully will be finishing my final exams within the month and receiving my degree in Israel). Thank you. > Joyce Schwartz Dear Joyce, I'm really no expert on pharmacotoxicology. I have forwarded your question to Chris Dhaenens. I for one was very disappointed in the Blue Poppy book on the subject ( " herb toxicities & drug interactions " ). A lot of the information is repeated like ten or more times in the book, and it is far from complete. It is just a repetition of the toxicity chapters of some other books (like Chen & Chen, Bensky & Gamble,..). There is almost no new information in the book. A good source of herbal pharmacology on the web is the Japanese magazine " Chemical & Pharmaceutical Bulletin " http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/browse/cpb http://alternativehealing.org/ has some info. Chinese universities also do a lot of pharmacological research on herbs, and these are published in professional magazines. However, when it comes to side-effects and drug interactions, a lot is still unknown. Chinese newspapers often do not report on negative news items, including related to public health. The PRC is trying to sell more of Chinese medicine to the west, and they don't really like negative press. Follow the publications on pubmed or on this list to find out more about drug interactions. Two common side-effects are renal damage from aristolochic acid or hepatitis from herbs like he shou wu, xiao chai hu tang,... Mazin Al-Khafaji, who only used Chinese herbs in his dermatology clinic, is aware of the latter and has published an article called " MONITORING OF LIVER ENZYMES IN PATIENTS ON CHINESE MEDICINE " in the JOURNAL OF CHINESE MEDICINE NUMBER 62 FEBRUARY 2000. Please send me an email if you would like to read the article. I will let you know when Chris Dhaenens sends me a reply, regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Tom: Thank you very much for the info. I would appreciate your keeping me (us) more informed! Joyce - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Saturday, July 22, 2006 2:16 PM Re: toxicity of herbs Chinese Medicine , Joyce Schwartz <joyces wrote: > > Tom: In lieu of taking a course in toxicity of herbs, as well as herb-drug interactions, could you possibly recommend some books that would be helpful. I have the Chen & Chen Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology, as well as Bensky, but I would be interested in reading more about the possibly side-effects, etc. of the formulas that I am about to write for my patients (I hopefully will be finishing my final exams within the month and receiving my degree in Israel). Thank you. > Joyce Schwartz Dear Joyce, I'm really no expert on pharmacotoxicology. I have forwarded your question to Chris Dhaenens. I for one was very disappointed in the Blue Poppy book on the subject ( " herb toxicities & drug interactions " ). A lot of the information is repeated like ten or more times in the book, and it is far from complete. It is just a repetition of the toxicity chapters of some other books (like Chen & Chen, Bensky & Gamble,..). There is almost no new information in the book. A good source of herbal pharmacology on the web is the Japanese magazine " Chemical & Pharmaceutical Bulletin " http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/browse/cpb http://alternativehealing.org/ has some info. Chinese universities also do a lot of pharmacological research on herbs, and these are published in professional magazines. However, when it comes to side-effects and drug interactions, a lot is still unknown. Chinese newspapers often do not report on negative news items, including related to public health. The PRC is trying to sell more of Chinese medicine to the west, and they don't really like negative press. Follow the publications on pubmed or on this list to find out more about drug interactions. Two common side-effects are renal damage from aristolochic acid or hepatitis from herbs like he shou wu, xiao chai hu tang,... Mazin Al-Khafaji, who only used Chinese herbs in his dermatology clinic, is aware of the latter and has published an article called " MONITORING OF LIVER ENZYMES IN PATIENTS ON CHINESE MEDICINE " in the JOURNAL OF CHINESE MEDICINE NUMBER 62 FEBRUARY 2000. Please send me an email if you would like to read the article. I will let you know when Chris Dhaenens sends me a reply, regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 One of the best books I have found on the subject is Francis Brinker called Herb Contraindications and drug interactions. He actually goes back and looks at the research to see whether actions are implied, in vivo or invitro, oral, or injection and such. Very dense on info, focus is on western herbs but has many chinese herbs as well. If start to look at latin names you will find some similar species and can take cautions if needed. He also has a website that updates the book. Its interesting....there are about 100 acupuncturists in my area...most practice some form of herbalism and most went to the same school I did, where we got very little information on herb safety or interactions. I have worked very hard to learn this from many sources and 4 times a year offer a free 2 hour lecture with hand outs on herb/drug interactions. In 3 years of offering this I have had one acupuncturist, 4 nurses and an MD attend....lots of the general public...but still one of my poorest tended classes. go figure.... Bob www.acuherbals.com Joyce Schwartz <joyces wrote: Tom: Thank you very much for the info. I would appreciate your keeping me (us) more informed! Joyce - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Saturday, July 22, 2006 2:16 PM Re: toxicity of herbs Chinese Medicine , Joyce Schwartz <joyces wrote: > > Tom: In lieu of taking a course in toxicity of herbs, as well as herb-drug interactions, could you possibly recommend some books that would be helpful. I have the Chen & Chen Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology, as well as Bensky, but I would be interested in reading more about the possibly side-effects, etc. of the formulas that I am about to write for my patients (I hopefully will be finishing my final exams within the month and receiving my degree in Israel). Thank you. > Joyce Schwartz Dear Joyce, I'm really no expert on pharmacotoxicology. I have forwarded your question to Chris Dhaenens. I for one was very disappointed in the Blue Poppy book on the subject ( " herb toxicities & drug interactions " ). A lot of the information is repeated like ten or more times in the book, and it is far from complete. It is just a repetition of the toxicity chapters of some other books (like Chen & Chen, Bensky & Gamble,..). There is almost no new information in the book. A good source of herbal pharmacology on the web is the Japanese magazine " Chemical & Pharmaceutical Bulletin " http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/browse/cpb http://alternativehealing.org/ has some info. Chinese universities also do a lot of pharmacological research on herbs, and these are published in professional magazines. However, when it comes to side-effects and drug interactions, a lot is still unknown. Chinese newspapers often do not report on negative news items, including related to public health. The PRC is trying to sell more of Chinese medicine to the west, and they don't really like negative press. Follow the publications on pubmed or on this list to find out more about drug interactions. Two common side-effects are renal damage from aristolochic acid or hepatitis from herbs like he shou wu, xiao chai hu tang,... Mazin Al-Khafaji, who only used Chinese herbs in his dermatology clinic, is aware of the latter and has published an article called " MONITORING OF LIVER ENZYMES IN PATIENTS ON CHINESE MEDICINE " in the JOURNAL OF CHINESE MEDICINE NUMBER 62 FEBRUARY 2000. Please send me an email if you would like to read the article. I will let you know when Chris Dhaenens sends me a reply, regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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