Guest guest Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Kelvin, Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. Best, Sean _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM Chinese Medicine DOM OMD PHD Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Dear Sean and Kelvin, You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. Hope this helps you. Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. - Sean Doherty Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM Chinese Medicine RE: DOM OMD PHD Kelvin, Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. Best, Sean _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM Chinese Medicine DOM OMD PHD Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > Hope this helps you. > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > - > Sean Doherty > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > Chinese Medicine > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > Kelvin, > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > Best, > > Sean > > _____ > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > Chinese Medicine > DOM OMD PHD > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > Kelvin > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Kelvin and Don, Thanks for adding our newest addition to the alphabet soup of our profession here in the States. How could I have forgotten? I do think though, Don, that beyond the residency the biggest difference between the MD's education and ours is rigor. Kelvin my understanding of the SAMRA OMD is that is was something more akin to a research based degree. The DAOM varies, depending on the program you enter, but most of it is didactic training, with some research, clinical time and study abroad. Don will hopefully have more to say on the specifics, as I only know what I have read in the past from mailings and school websites. Best, Sean P.S.- MSc, MS, DNBAO, LAc, e, i, e, i, o _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:09 AM Chinese Medicine Re: DOM OMD PHD How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? Kelvin Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > Hope this helps you. > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > - > Sean Doherty > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > Kelvin, > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > Best, > > Sean > > _____ > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > [Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > DOM OMD PHD > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > Kelvin > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Since when does the number of 'seat' hours equate to medical competence? To compare yourself to a physician because of the number of hours you have sat in a 'seat' is preposterous. Our training does not equate to residency- which you seem to say is the 'only' difference- I think 90+ contact hours a week in various specialities over a number of years accounts for something- I could be wrong... Sincerely, David Appleton L.Ac, MSTOM, B.S, B.A, LMT, CPR, ... --- acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote: > How is this DOAM different from the extra two years > they got in the > Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for > the residency? > > Kelvin > > Chinese Medicine , > " Donald Snow " > <don83407 wrote: > > > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. > This one is > actually in the accreditation process. Training is > vastly different > also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all > of us had a B.S. > degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., > and M.B.A, and one > of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant > all of us had a > four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour > MSTOM (4 year > grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total > education, about > what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the > DAOM which was > around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a > total TCM education > of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are > added; and the M.D.s > add it to their total education, that gives us 10 > full time years of > seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the > M.D. However, we > don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest > difference. > > > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more > than those that > preceded us and we haven't even added in our other > Master's degrees. > > > > Hope this helps you. > > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > - > > Sean Doherty > > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > > > Kelvin, > > > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part > from the > differences in > > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or > 30 years, yes, > the formal > > schooling is less than what you generally find > now. In California, > there > > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people > could take after > their > > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done > some level of > additional > > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People > who go to school > in New > > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same > amount of > education, there > > are some differences, but I believe them to be > minimal. In Florida > you are > > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not > education. Rhode > Island you > > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not > education. > > > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > > > Best, > > > > Sean > > > > _____ > > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Chinese Medicine > On Behalf Of > > acupuncturebeverlyhills > > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > DOM OMD PHD > > > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, > yet when I talk > to > > these people they have less schooling then me. > What gives? Was > this > > what your title used to be before we were just > called LAc's? > > > > Kelvin > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 If you are really interested in finding out, log onto OCOM's or PCOM's website and look at the curriculum. There is also the matter of the doctoral capstone dissertation. Look at the massive amount of hours. I think I thoroughly answered the question and don't want to argue or defend. This one is soon to be accredited, the others have no accreditation or authorization. DJS - acupuncturebeverlyhills Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:13 AM Chinese Medicine Re: DOM OMD PHD How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > Hope this helps you. > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > - > Sean Doherty > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > Chinese Medicine > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > Kelvin, > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > Best, > > Sean > > _____ > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > Chinese Medicine > DOM OMD PHD > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > Kelvin > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Looks good, but why don't you get paid to do residency? Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > If you are really interested in finding out, log onto OCOM's or PCOM's website and look at the curriculum. There is also the matter of the doctoral capstone dissertation. Look at the massive amount of hours. I think I thoroughly answered the question and don't want to argue or defend. This one is soon to be accredited, the others have no accreditation or authorization. > > DJS > > - > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:13 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: DOM OMD PHD > > How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the > Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? > > Kelvin > > Chinese Medicine , " Donald Snow " > <don83407@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is > actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different > also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. > degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one > of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a > four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year > grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about > what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was > around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education > of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s > add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of > seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we > don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that > preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > > > Hope this helps you. > > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > - > > Sean Doherty > > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > > > Kelvin, > > > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the > differences in > > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, > the formal > > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, > there > > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after > their > > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of > additional > > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school > in New > > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of > education, there > > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida > you are > > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode > Island you > > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > > > Best, > > > > Sean > > > > _____ > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > > acupuncturebeverlyhills > > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > DOM OMD PHD > > > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk > to > > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was > this > > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > > > Kelvin > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 He was saying there is a total lack of residency training for acupuncturists in comparison to MDs. There is no residency training, paid or otherwise, currently available to acupuncturists in the US. Sean _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:40 PM Chinese Medicine Re: DOM OMD PHD Looks good, but why don't you get paid to do residency? Kelvin Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > If you are really interested in finding out, log onto OCOM's or PCOM's website and look at the curriculum. There is also the matter of the doctoral capstone dissertation. Look at the massive amount of hours. I think I thoroughly answered the question and don't want to argue or defend. This one is soon to be accredited, the others have no accreditation or authorization. > > DJS > > - > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:13 AM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > Re: DOM OMD PHD > > How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the > Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? > > Kelvin > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Donald Snow " > <don83407@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is > actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different > also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. > degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one > of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a > four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year > grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about > what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was > around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education > of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s > add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of > seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we > don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that > preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > > > Hope this helps you. > > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > - > > Sean Doherty > > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > > > Kelvin, > > > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the > differences in > > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, > the formal > > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, > there > > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after > their > > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of > additional > > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school > in New > > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of > education, there > > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida > you are > > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode > Island you > > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > > > Best, > > > > Sean > > > > _____ > > > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > > [Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of > > acupuncturebeverlyhills > > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > > DOM OMD PHD > > > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk > to > > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was > this > > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > > > Kelvin > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Chinese Medicine , " Sean Doherty " <sean wrote: > > He was saying there is a total lack of residency training for acupuncturists > in comparison to MDs. There is no residency training, paid or otherwise, > currently available to acupuncturists in the US. > > Sean > > > Interesting... What would you call the year I'm doing at Good Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles? I'm doing acupuncture in the acute rehab departmemt as part of my DOAM program for Emperors College. Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 I am surprised you started this thread if you are in a doctoral program. How is it you have picked and entered into a doctoral program knowing so little of the history, or any other programs that are currently available? Oh, and the degree acronym that you are working towards is DAOM, not DOAM, might want to work that one out before you print up your business cards The residency is not a standard requirement of masters or doctoral level education, plus if you are doing your year as part of your degree, (ie-you haven't completed it yet) then it is isn't a residency, it is an internship. Sean _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Friday, July 21, 2006 12:12 PM Chinese Medicine Re: DOM OMD PHD Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Sean Doherty " <sean wrote: > > He was saying there is a total lack of residency training for acupuncturists > in comparison to MDs. There is no residency training, paid or otherwise, > currently available to acupuncturists in the US. > > Sean > > > Interesting... What would you call the year I'm doing at Good Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles? I'm doing acupuncture in the acute rehab departmemt as part of my DOAM program for Emperors College. Kelvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Actually it's a fellowship, at least that is what the hospital calls it. Just wanted to get other opinions on what they are, what the perceptions are and yes, believe it or not you are not the only one with an opinion (and because from what I hear, being a " know it all(KIA) " causes your hair to fall out Kelvin Chinese Medicine , " Sean Doherty " <sean wrote: > > I am surprised you started this thread if you are in a doctoral program. > How is it you have picked and entered into a doctoral program knowing so > little of the history, or any other programs that are currently available? > Oh, and the degree acronym that you are working towards is DAOM, not DOAM, > might want to work that one out before you print up your business cards > The residency is not a standard requirement of masters or doctoral level > education, plus if you are doing your year as part of your degree, (ie-you > haven't completed it yet) then it is isn't a residency, it is an > internship. > > Sean > > _____ > > Chinese Medicine > Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Friday, July 21, 2006 12:12 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: DOM OMD PHD > > > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> > Chinese_Medicine , " Sean Doherty " > <sean@> wrote: > > > > He was saying there is a total lack of residency training for > acupuncturists > > in comparison to MDs. There is no residency training, paid or > otherwise, > > currently available to acupuncturists in the US. > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > Interesting... What would you call the year I'm doing at Good > Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles? I'm doing acupuncture in the acute > rehab departmemt as part of my DOAM program for Emperors College. > > Kelvin > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 <Actually it's a fellowship, at least that is what the hospital calls it.>> Good to know. <and yes, believe it or not you are not the only one with an opinion> Also, good to know. <<(and because from what I hear, being a " know it all(KIA) " causes your hair to fall out >> It fell out long before I knew everything. I think it had something to do with dealing with people with veiled intent? Hard to say We should probably put this thread to bed though. Sincere best wishes to you in your program Kelvin. Best, Sean Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Sean Doherty " <sean wrote: > > I am surprised you started this thread if you are in a doctoral program. > How is it you have picked and entered into a doctoral program knowing so > little of the history, or any other programs that are currently available? > Oh, and the degree acronym that you are working towards is DAOM, not DOAM, > might want to work that one out before you print up your business cards > The residency is not a standard requirement of masters or doctoral level > education, plus if you are doing your year as part of your degree, (ie-you > haven't completed it yet) then it is isn't a residency, it is an > internship. > > Sean > > _____ > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > [Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Friday, July 21, 2006 12:12 PM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > Re: DOM OMD PHD > > > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> > Chinese_Medicine@ <Chinese_Medicine%40> , " Sean Doherty " > <sean@> wrote: > > > > He was saying there is a total lack of residency training for > acupuncturists > > in comparison to MDs. There is no residency training, paid or > otherwise, > > currently available to acupuncturists in the US. > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > Interesting... What would you call the year I'm doing at Good > Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles? I'm doing acupuncture in the acute > rehab departmemt as part of my DOAM program for Emperors College. > > Kelvin > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I don't see MD behind your name so your opinion is just that. On the other hand, most MDs I know say that medical school was easier than pre-med, however, the residency was the killer. Thirdly, I don't see an earned " doctorate " behind your name and I have one behind mine. Therefore, my opinion is based on experience. I tire of people asking questions on the internet and then when answered, other people go on the attack. If you don't like my answers, that's too bad. Tough. You really don't " know " the rigors of any doctorate program. Go to school, earn your doctorate, then your comment may have meaning. Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, MS, HHP, L.Ac., Dipl. Ac. - Sean Doherty Friday, July 21, 2006 4:54 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: DOM OMD PHD Kelvin and Don, Thanks for adding our newest addition to the alphabet soup of our profession here in the States. How could I have forgotten? I do think though, Don, that beyond the residency the biggest difference between the MD's education and ours is rigor. Kelvin my understanding of the SAMRA OMD is that is was something more akin to a research based degree. The DAOM varies, depending on the program you enter, but most of it is didactic training, with some research, clinical time and study abroad. Don will hopefully have more to say on the specifics, as I only know what I have read in the past from mailings and school websites. Best, Sean P.S.- MSc, MS, DNBAO, LAc, e, i, e, i, o _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of acupuncturebeverlyhills Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:09 AM Chinese Medicine Re: DOM OMD PHD How is this DOAM different from the extra two years they got in the Samra OMD program? Also why don't you get paid for the residency? Kelvin Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine , " Donald Snow " <don83407 wrote: > > Dear Sean and Kelvin, > > You missed one. There is the new DAOM degree. This one is actually in the accreditation process. Training is vastly different also. For instance, in our DAOM class at PCOM, all of us had a B.S. degree and the MSTOM, one of us also had an M.D., and M.B.A, and one of us already had an M.P.H. Basically, that meant all of us had a four year undergrad degree and 3,300 to 3,400 hour MSTOM (4 year grad degree). That makes it around 8 years total education, about what an M.D. gets. On top of that we earned the DAOM which was around 1,300 hours plus for us. This gives us a total TCM education of 6 full time years. If the B.S. degrees are added; and the M.D.s add it to their total education, that gives us 10 full time years of seat-time education. That's 2 more years than the M.D. However, we don't have a paid residency. That is the biggest difference. > > That means we get a lot of education. Much more than those that preceded us and we haven't even added in our other Master's degrees. > > Hope this helps you. > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, MSTOM, L.Ac. > > > > - > Sean Doherty > Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:35 PM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > RE: DOM OMD PHD > > Kelvin, > > Part of this comes from changes in the past, part from the differences in > state standards and titles. If you go back 20 or 30 years, yes, the formal > schooling is less than what you generally find now. In California, there > was a two year OMD program at SAMRA that people could take after their > Masters. Some people have gone abroad and done some level of additional > training and attained a " doctoral " degree. People who go to school in New > Mexico get DOM degrees, with basically the same amount of education, there > are some differences, but I believe them to be minimal. In Florida you are > an Acupuncture Physician through licensure, not education. Rhode Island you > are a Doctor of Acupuncture by licensure, not education. > > It is all pretty well messed up and crazy. > > Best, > > Sean > > _____ > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > [Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of > acupuncturebeverlyhills > Monday, July 17, 2006 4:45 PM > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine > DOM OMD PHD > > Here in California these titles are everywhere, yet when I talk to > these people they have less schooling then me. What gives? Was this > what your title used to be before we were just called LAc's? > > Kelvin > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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