Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Thanks for the feedback Phil, I've been curious about the possibility of ANS hypersensitivity, do you know of any osteopathic research on this, I can read some French if that helps... also, have you seen anything of " switched " people as it is related to the oscillation point? There doesn't seem to be any English research on it. Having established the possibility of ANS issues being a root, what would an interpretation into a CM context look like? -A hyper or hypo function based on distribution of qi via du mai and shu points? -A ministerial fire dysfunction where yang becomes poorly rooted or mischanneled? There is also a form of massage (windigsweb[German for fascia or connective tissue]) which hypothesizes the reciprocal relationship between organ dysfunction and derma (and myotone). So we could argue backwards from organ dysfunction to the generation of contracture at the back shu points, and once they contract they continue to inhibit organ fnx, giving a feedback loop. The other part of this is the tendancy of nervous tissue to facilitate response, and since the sympathetic chains function is to facilitate the rapid dissemination of fight or flight response it seems this would be easy to overstimulate, and lead to a facilitated hyperfunction, leading to a suppression of digestive function (which is depressed by sympathetic phase), and since a large amount of the body's seratonin is produced by the ganglia in the gut this could lead to depression and IBS type stuff... leading to a depression anxiety spiral... eesh. Par - Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:45 AM Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes Hi Par, & All, > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? ... I have two nausea > cases that are driving me crazy... IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic dysfunction in difficult nausea cases deserves much discussion because the autonomic nervous system (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. IMO, there is an ANS component in most, if not all, diseases / disorders. In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true genius. He was a vet, qualified human osteopath and an expert equine acupuncturist and osteopath. Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) balance/function in maintaining health and movement in animals and people. At that time, I had chronic problems with stress-related heart palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm pain (lasting circa 20 years). I also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet treatment for 18 months. Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked him to examine my spine. He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the heart-innervation segments) and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i was aware of a ROM [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the time but was unaware of pain or problems with my T12]. Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The procedure took less than 1 minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have taken only 3 Tagamet tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te saluto Dom; may G_d Rest your Soul. Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing serious. If neck restriction arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my C7 whenever I meet them at conferences. IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many pain conditions, like autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, etc) and internal problems (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS problems, etc). This blockage disrupts normal autonomic control of the associated organs and functions. Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. I have no hesitation in referring my patients (human or animal) to colleagues more skilled than I am if I feel that to be necessary at the initial presentation, OR my methods fail to produce good results in a few weeks. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. >>>>>>> I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book you can also use this information when using needles. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:45 AM Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes Hi Par, & All, > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? ... I have two nausea > cases that are driving me crazy... IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic dysfunction in difficult nausea cases deserves much discussion because the autonomic nervous system (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. IMO, there is an ANS component in most, if not all, diseases / disorders. In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true genius. He was a vet, qualified human osteopath and an expert equine acupuncturist and osteopath. Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) balance/function in maintaining health and movement in animals and people. At that time, I had chronic problems with stress-related heart palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm pain (lasting circa 20 years). I also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet treatment for 18 months. Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked him to examine my spine. He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the heart-innervation segments) and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i was aware of a ROM [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the time but was unaware of pain or problems with my T12]. Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The procedure took less than 1 minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have taken only 3 Tagamet tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te saluto Dom; may G_d Rest your Soul. Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing serious. If neck restriction arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my C7 whenever I meet them at conferences. IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many pain conditions, like autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, etc) and internal problems (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS problems, etc). This blockage disrupts normal autonomic control of the associated organs and functions. Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. I have no hesitation in referring my patients (human or animal) to colleagues more skilled than I am if I feel that to be necessary at the initial presentation, OR my methods fail to produce good results in a few weeks. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Hi Par, & All, > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? ... I have two nausea > cases that are driving me crazy... IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic dysfunction in difficult nausea cases deserves much discussion because the autonomic nervous system (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. IMO, there is an ANS component in most, if not all, diseases / disorders. In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true genius. He was a vet, qualified human osteopath and an expert equine acupuncturist and osteopath. Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) balance/function in maintaining health and movement in animals and people. At that time, I had chronic problems with stress-related heart palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm pain (lasting circa 20 years). I also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet treatment for 18 months. Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked him to examine my spine. He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the heart-innervation segments) and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i was aware of a ROM [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the time but was unaware of pain or problems with my T12]. Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The procedure took less than 1 minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have taken only 3 Tagamet tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te saluto Dom; may G_d Rest your Soul. Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing serious. If neck restriction arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my C7 whenever I meet them at conferences. IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many pain conditions, like autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, etc) and internal problems (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS problems, etc). This blockage disrupts normal autonomic control of the associated organs and functions. Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. I have no hesitation in referring my patients (human or animal) to colleagues more skilled than I am if I feel that to be necessary at the initial presentation, OR my methods fail to produce good results in a few weeks. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Can we wrap up (i.e. end) this vetebral manipulation discussion? You are welcome to take it off list. Doug , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. > >>>>>>> > I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book you can also use this information when using needles. > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. >>>>>>> I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book you can also use this information when using needles. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:45 AM Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes Hi Par, & All, > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? ... I have two nausea > cases that are driving me crazy... IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic dysfunction in difficult nausea cases deserves much discussion because the autonomic nervous system (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. IMO, there is an ANS component in most, if not all, diseases / disorders. In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true genius. He was a vet, qualified human osteopath and an expert equine acupuncturist and osteopath. Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) balance/function in maintaining health and movement in animals and people. At that time, I had chronic problems with stress-related heart palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm pain (lasting circa 20 years). I also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet treatment for 18 months. Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked him to examine my spine. He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the heart-innervation segments) and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i was aware of a ROM [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the time but was unaware of pain or problems with my T12]. Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The procedure took less than 1 minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have taken only 3 Tagamet tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te saluto Dom; may G_d Rest your Soul. Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing serious. If neck restriction arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my C7 whenever I meet them at conferences. IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many pain conditions, like autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, etc) and internal problems (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS problems, etc). This blockage disrupts normal autonomic control of the associated organs and functions. Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. I have no hesitation in referring my patients (human or animal) to colleagues more skilled than I am if I feel that to be necessary at the initial presentation, OR my methods fail to produce good results in a few weeks. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. >>>>>>> I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book you can also use this information when using needles. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:45 AM Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes Hi Par, & All, > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? ... I have two nausea > cases that are driving me crazy... IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic dysfunction in difficult nausea cases deserves much discussion because the autonomic nervous system (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. IMO, there is an ANS component in most, if not all, diseases / disorders. In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true genius. He was a vet, qualified human osteopath and an expert equine acupuncturist and osteopath. Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) balance/function in maintaining health and movement in animals and people. At that time, I had chronic problems with stress-related heart palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm pain (lasting circa 20 years). I also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet treatment for 18 months. Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked him to examine my spine. He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the heart-innervation segments) and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i was aware of a ROM [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the time but was unaware of pain or problems with my T12]. Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The procedure took less than 1 minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have taken only 3 Tagamet tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te saluto Dom; may G_d Rest your Soul. Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing serious. If neck restriction arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my C7 whenever I meet them at conferences. IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many pain conditions, like autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, etc) and internal problems (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS problems, etc). This blockage disrupts normal autonomic control of the associated organs and functions. Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. I have no hesitation in referring my patients (human or animal) to colleagues more skilled than I am if I feel that to be necessary at the initial presentation, OR my methods fail to produce good results in a few weeks. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 OK, Alon, Let's get to the point. Can you offer courses or direct our group to Osteopaths who can offer seminars to teach us Oseopathic cranial and vertebral examination and manipulation? As you so correctly imply the clinical skills we have, IMO, are incomplete without getting to the (nerve) root, literally and figurative! With much respect and appreciation, Yehuda --- <alonmarcus wrote: > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners > are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter > how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral > diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic > problems. > >>>>>>> > I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book > you can also use this information when using > needles. > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine > Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:45 AM > Role of Automonic Dysfunction / > Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes > > > Hi Par, & All, > > > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? > ... I have two nausea > > cases that are driving me crazy... > > IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic > dysfunction in difficult nausea > cases deserves much discussion because the > autonomic nervous system > (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. > IMO, there is an ANS > component in most, if not all, diseases / > disorders. > > In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. > Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his > equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true > genius. He was a vet, > qualified human osteopath and an expert equine > acupuncturist and > osteopath. > > Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) > balance/function in > maintaining health and movement in animals and > people. At that time, I had > chronic problems with stress-related heart > palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac > angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm > pain (lasting circa 20 years). I > also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet > treatment for 18 months. > > Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked > him to examine my spine. > He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the > heart-innervation segments) > and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i > was aware of a ROM > [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the > time but was unaware of > pain or problems with my T12]. > > Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The > procedure took less than 1 > minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have > taken only 3 Tagamet > tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te > saluto Dom; may G_d > Rest your Soul. > > Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing > serious. If neck restriction > arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my > C7 whenever I meet them > at conferences. > > IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many > pain conditions, like > autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, > etc) and internal problems > (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS > problems, etc). This blockage > disrupts normal autonomic control of the > associated organs and functions. > > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture > practitioners are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter > how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral > diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic > problems. > > I have no hesitation in referring my patients > (human or animal) to colleagues > more skilled than I am if I feel that to be > necessary at the initial presentation, > OR my methods fail to produce good results in a > few weeks. > > Best regards, > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Sorry Doug, I was actually trying to see if there was a way to fit the notion into a CM paradigm. Par - Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:39 PM Re: Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes Can we wrap up (i.e. end) this vetebral manipulation discussion? You are welcome to take it off list. Doug , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic problems. > >>>>>>> > I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book you can also use this information when using needles. > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 and I, doug. Thank you for all your support! --- Par Scott <parufus wrote: > Sorry Doug, I was actually trying to see if there > was a way to fit the notion into a CM paradigm. > > Par > - > > > Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:39 PM > Re: Role of Automonic Dysfunction / > Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes > > > Can we wrap up (i.e. end) this vetebral > manipulation discussion? You are welcome to take > it off list. > Doug > > , " Alon > Marcus DOM " <alonmarcus > wrote: > > > > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture > practitioners are experts also in > > vertebral examination and manipulation. No > matter how well we know our > > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral > diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic > problems. > > >>>>>>> > > I could not agree more and as i discuss in my > book you can also use this information > when using needles. > > > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Yehuda I have been teaching this for many years Oakland, CA 94609 - yehuda frischman Chinese Medicine Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:15 AM Re: Re: Role of Automonic Dysfunction / Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes OK, Alon, Let's get to the point. Can you offer courses or direct our group to Osteopaths who can offer seminars to teach us Oseopathic cranial and vertebral examination and manipulation? As you so correctly imply the clinical skills we have, IMO, are incomplete without getting to the (nerve) root, literally and figurative! With much respect and appreciation, Yehuda --- <alonmarcus wrote: > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture practitioners > are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter > how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral > diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic > problems. > >>>>>>> > I could not agree more and as i discuss in my book > you can also use this information when using > needles. > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Cc: traditional_Chinese_Medicine > Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:45 AM > Role of Automonic Dysfunction / > Vertebral Blockage in triggering Difficult Syndromes > > > Hi Par, & All, > > > Nausea cases, irritation of sympathetic chain? > ... I have two nausea > > cases that are driving me crazy... > > IMO Par's question re the role of sympathetic > dysfunction in difficult nausea > cases deserves much discussion because the > autonomic nervous system > (ANS) controls all vegetative bodily functions. > IMO, there is an ANS > component in most, if not all, diseases / > disorders. > > In 1993, I visited a friend, the late Dr. > Dominique Giniaux, in Paris to see his > equine techniques. Dom was a great guy and a true > genius. He was a vet, > qualified human osteopath and an expert equine > acupuncturist and > osteopath. > > Dom put great importance on spinal (vertebral) > balance/function in > maintaining health and movement in animals and > people. At that time, I had > chronic problems with stress-related heart > palpitations, arrhythmias, cardiac > angina + occasional left thoracic and left arm > pain (lasting circa 20 years). I > also had a gastric ulcer and was on Tagamet > treatment for 18 months. > > Without telling Dom my symptom history, I asked > him to examine my spine. > He diagnosed vertebral blockage at C7 (in the > heart-innervation segments) > and T12 (in the gastric-innervation segments). [i > was aware of a ROM > [range of movement] restriction in my neck at the > time but was unaware of > pain or problems with my T12]. > > Dom manipulated my spine at C7 and T12. The > procedure took less than 1 > minute. Since that time (>13 years ago), I have > taken only 3 Tagamet > tablets and have had very few angina attacks. Te > saluto Dom; may G_d > Rest your Soul. > > Now, I get occasional palpitations but nothing > serious. If neck restriction > arises, I have other osteopathic friends adjust my > C7 whenever I meet them > at conferences. > > IMO, vertebral blockage is the root cause of many > pain conditions, like > autonomic problems (including migraine, nausea, > etc) and internal problems > (like chronic lung, stomach, heart and IBS > problems, etc). This blockage > disrupts normal autonomic control of the > associated organs and functions. > > Few physicians, vets, TCM/acupuncture > practitioners are experts also in > vertebral examination and manipulation. No matter > how well we know our > own methods, our lack of skill in vertebral > diagnosis/manipulation leaves us > impotent to treat the root cause of many chronic > problems. > > I have no hesitation in referring my patients > (human or animal) to colleagues > more skilled than I am if I feel that to be > necessary at the initial presentation, > OR my methods fail to produce good results in a > few weeks. > > Best regards, > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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