Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Drugs in Our Drinking Water Déjà Vue all over again. Recently there’s been a lot in the news about drugs in our drinking water supply. There’s a big flap in Washington. Readers write to me telling me to focus on this issue. The sky is falling. Well, some readers might remember that we wrote about this about two years ago. I recall stating something like: We have so many antidepressants in our ten thousand Minnesota lakes that the fish just don’t care if they’re caught. You can read about it here: Drugs in our Drinking Water. I will say just one or two more things about these drugs. 1. With few exceptions, no one should be permanently on any drug therapy. If you are on a drug for the rest of your life, ask yourself why. Drugs are a stop gap. They’re intended to save your life and stabilize a condition. If you can’t find a nutritional cure, you’re not looking. Only modern quackery supported by conventional "wrong" thinking could keep people drugged up without seeking nutritional therapies. 2. The difference between herbals and pharmaceuticals is that herbs are food. Food does not pass through our systems unchanged. We digest them, pull from them the things we need and pass the remainder. Drugs are morbid substances that, for the most part, do not break down in our bodies. What we take in, we pass into our water supply. 3. Dispose of drugs properly. Pretend they are hazardous substances and dispose of them accordingly. http://www.mnwelldir.org/nw_current.htm http://www.grisoft.com Anti-Virus Scanned this message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 At 09:45 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote: Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. For example, aside from being an accident, there was a real need for antibiotics. People died all the time from cuts, and wounds. Not to mention childbirth. And, what about those poor souls who had to have a limb cut off? One of my sisters just went through that not too long ago. In the " good old days, " she would have died. Just as I would have before my 14th or 15 birthday, had not a tumor the size of an orange been removed from my abdomen when I was 11. Do you all really think there is a natural remedy for things like that? Never mind - don't bother to answer. I'm quite sure I know what y'all will say. One other point, and I'll go for the evening - aside from things that are now illegal, like the nectar from the poppies, do you really think there's anything out there, that is " natural " that is a really good pain killer, without knocking you out? Or, making you so stupid you can't think or remember? I'm sure someone will say yes, and I'm curious to know what you think would work for severe, chronic, unremitting pain. that never goes away. It's because of failed back surgeries, which if I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have been able to walk. My disks are just disintegrating. Couple that with the full-body spasms I've now been blessed with, and you have a less than pleasant day - and night. For me, it's not whether something takes the pain away, it's whether it makes it bearable for me. For me, pain is measured in degrees - never zero. On a scale of 1 to 10, the lowest I usually go is around a four. That's really low for me. Gnerally, I hover around a 6. When it's bad, I go to an 8 or 9. I try to reserve 10's for when it's so bad I feel as though I should pass out. But, I never do. I never have, no matter how bad the pain has ever been, in any situation. Don't you or anyone else dare say someone hasn't looked hard enough!!!! They may not have found the right thing, or combination of things, but don't say they haven't looked hard enough. Not to mention, that a number of drugs and medications, are made from natural substances. I'm not going to make a list now, because frankly, what you said really hit a cord. What you said, the way you said it, upset me so much, my face actually got hot. Burning hot. And it rarely does that. I have tried just about everything, in just about every combination you can think of, in the last 20+ years. I've pretty much resigned myself to the knowledge there are certain conditions, which you do admit to, that require the assistance of pharmaceuticals. You know, like it or not, it was need that generated a specific drug. Not the other way around. And, it's ignorant to even think so. So people take too much? Sure. Could they sometimes do things the natural way? Sure. Does medical science have all the answers? Of course not. But, regardless of how dogmatic most of you are, there are times, there are conditions which do not respond to natural ways. If everything did, there would have not been a need for other things. I agree that natural is best, but sometimes it doesn't work. There have been people on this board, who have explained the " normal " natural hasn't worked for them. And, I'm here to tell you, that even though I have hated taking steroids every time I've done it, without them, at this point, I would be permanently in a wheel chair (which I was in this time last year), wouldn't see too well, and doubt if my mental facilities would be working well enough to even partake in a group such as this. Oh, and BTW, an common side effect of steroids is Weigh Gain, not weight loss. And, not only do you gain weight, it's practically impossible to take it off for about a year.........Some of you sound so unhealthy, I sometimes wonder how you have the nerve to tell other people how they should do things, when what you recommend hasn't worked for you. Lynn PS. Went to the website - looked for how to safely dispose of drugs. Hard to figure out a way. Can't put them in the dump, they leach into the ground. can't put them in a plastic bag - someone might take them. Not to mention, plastic is not bio-degradable.....Noticed the article on Quiting smoking, and using the DRUG Chantix - DH's Dr recommended it, but we looked it up and saw the potential side effects. We decided, it was just too risky. It has horrible side effects. I can't believe anyone who pushes the natural way of doing things, would even suggest anyone take a drug like that. Not to mention, you're supposed to take it for quite a long time - don't remember the exact time, but we think it was around six months. There are other, safer ways, to quite. Clares, also I noticed you had taken what I read directly from the website. I wish you would have put that in your post, as I thought you had written everything that was in the post below. So, even though I was and am upset, my anger was misplaced, and for that, I apologize. Drugs in Our Drinking Water Déjà Vue all over again. Recently there’s been a lot in the news about drugs in our drinking water supply. There’s a big flap in Washington. Readers write to me telling me to focus on this issue. The sky is falling. Well, some readers might remember that we wrote about this about two years ago. I recall stating something like: We have so many antidepressants in our ten thousand Minnesota lakes that the fish just don’t care if they’re caught. You can read about it here: Drugs in our Drinking Water. I will say just one or two more things about these drugs. 1. With few exceptions, no one should be permanently on any drug therapy. If you are on a drug for the rest of your life, ask yourself why. Drugs are a stop gap. They’re intended to save your life and stabilize a condition. If you can’t find a nutritional cure, you’re not looking. Only modern quackery supported by conventional " wrong " thinking could keep people drugged up without seeking nutritional therapies. 2. The difference between herbals and pharmaceuticals is that herbs are food. Food does not pass through our systems unchanged. We digest them, pull from them the things we need and pass the remainder. Drugs are morbid substances that, for the most part, do not break down in our bodies. What we take in, we pass into our water supply. 3. Dispose of drugs properly. Pretend they are hazardous substances and dispose of them accordingly. http://www.mnwelldir.org/nw_current.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 you are entitled to your 'spat' or 'dummy spit' as we Aussies call it...... BUT at the bottom of the article I did provide the LINK to where it came from. Hope you get a good nights sleep my web friend. Clare in Tassie Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Lynn - as a homeopath I say that it is not necessary to take anti-biotics or to have limbs removed - i say that even more strongly since only within the last 6 months I have discovered for myself the power of Miracle II products and of DMSO + many people would say CS too Homeopathy is SO powerful - I have treated septic wounds with results far more rapid than ABs would ever achieve. Best, Jane - Lynn Ward Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:18 PM Re: drugs in drinkimg water? At 09:45 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote:Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. For example, aside from being an accident, there was a real need for antibiotics. People died all the time from cuts, and wounds. Not to mention childbirth. And, what about those poor souls who had to have a limb cut off? One of my sisters just went through that not too long ago. In the "good old days," she would have died. Just as I would have before my 14th or 15 birthday, had not a tumor the size of an orange been removed from my abdomen when I was 11. Do you all really think there is a natural remedy for things like that? Never mind - don't bother to answer. I'm quite sure I know what y'all will say.One other point, and I'll go for the evening - aside from things that are now illegal, like the nectar from the poppies, do you really think there's anything out there, that is "natural" that is a really good pain killer, without knocking you out? Or, making you so stupid you can't think or remember? I'm sure someone will say yes, and I'm curious to know what you think would work for severe, chronic, unremitting pain. that never goes away. It's because of failed back surgeries, which if I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have been able to walk. My disks are just disintegrating. Couple that with the full-body spasms I've now been blessed with, and you have a less than pleasant day - and night. For me, it's not whether something takes the pain away, it's whether it makes it bearable for me. For me, pain is measured in degrees - never zero. On a scale of 1 to 10, the lowest I usually go is around a four. That's really low for me. Gnerally, I hover around a 6. When it's bad, I go to an 8 or 9. I try to reserve 10's for when it's so bad I feel as though I should pass out. But, I never do. I never have, no matter how bad the pain has ever been, in any situation.Don't you or anyone else dare say someone hasn't looked hard enough!!!! They may not have found the right thing, or combination of things, but don't say they haven't looked hard enough. Not to mention, that a number of drugs and medications, are made from natural substances. I'm not going to make a list now, because frankly, what you said really hit a cord. What you said, the way you said it, upset me so much, my face actually got hot. Burning hot. And it rarely does that. I have tried just about everything, in just about every combination you can think of, in the last 20+ years. I've pretty much resigned myself to the knowledge there are certain conditions, which you do admit to, that require the assistance of pharmaceuticals. You know, like it or not, it was need that generated a specific drug. Not the other way around. And, it's ignorant to even think so. So people take too much? Sure. Could they sometimes do things the natural way? Sure. Does medical science have all the answers? Of course not. But, regardless of how dogmatic most of you are, there are times, there are conditions which do not respond to natural ways. If everything did, there would have not been a need for other things.I agree that natural is best, but sometimes it doesn't work. There have been people on this board, who have explained the "normal" natural hasn't worked for them. And, I'm here to tell you, that even though I have hated taking steroids every time I've done it, without them, at this point, I would be permanently in a wheel chair (which I was in this time last year), wouldn't see too well, and doubt if my mental facilities would be working well enough to even partake in a group such as this. Oh, and BTW, an common side effect of steroids is Weigh Gain, not weight loss. And, not only do you gain weight, it's practically impossible to take it off for about a year.........Some of you sound so unhealthy, I sometimes wonder how you have the nerve to tell other people how they should do things, when what you recommend hasn't worked for you.LynnPS. Went to the website - looked for how to safely dispose of drugs. Hard to figure out a way. Can't put them in the dump, they leach into the ground. can't put them in a plastic bag - someone might take them. Not to mention, plastic is not bio-degradable.....Noticed the article on Quiting smoking, and using the DRUG Chantix - DH's Dr recommended it, but we looked it up and saw the potential side effects. We decided, it was just too risky. It has horrible side effects. I can't believe anyone who pushes the natural way of doing things, would even suggest anyone take a drug like that. Not to mention, you're supposed to take it for quite a long time - don't remember the exact time, but we think it was around six months. There are other, safer ways, to quite. Clares, also I noticed you had taken what I read directly from the website. I wish you would have put that in your post, as I thought you had written everything that was in the post below. So, even though I was and am upset, my anger was misplaced, and for that, I apologize. Drugs in Our Drinking WaterDéjà Vue all over again. Recently there’s been a lot in the news about drugs in our drinking water supply. There’s abig flap in Washington. Readers write to me telling me to focus on this issue. The sky isfalling.Well, some readers might remember that we wrote about this about two years ago. I recallstating something like: We have so many antidepressants in our ten thousand Minnesotalakes that the fish just don’t care if they’re caught.You can read about it here: Drugs in our Drinking Water.I will say just one or two more things about these drugs.1. With few exceptions, no one should be permanently on any drug therapy. If you are on a drug forthe rest of your life, ask yourself why. Drugs are a stop gap. They’re intended to save your life andstabilize a condition. If you can’t find a nutritional cure, you’re not looking. Only modernquackery supported by conventional "wrong" thinking could keep people drugged up withoutseeking nutritional therapies.2. The difference between herbals and pharmaceuticals is that herbs are food. Food does not passthrough our systems unchanged. We digest them, pull from them the things we need and pass theremainder. Drugs are morbid substances that, for the most part, do not break down in our bodies.What we take in, we pass into our water supply.3. Dispose of drugs properly. Pretend they are hazardous substances and dispose of them accordingly.http://www.mnwelldir.org/nw_current.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 At 11:33 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote: Actually, what one sends often speaks for what one feels...........And, as far as that goes, I suppose it wouldn't be such a good idea to go through what has happened historically, because it wouldn't suit one's purpose....... you are entitled to your 'spat' or 'dummy spit' as we Aussies call it...... BUT at the bottom of the article I did provide the LINK to where it came from. Hope you get a good nights sleep my web friend. Clare in Tassie Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 At 03:07 AM 4/3/2008, you wrote: Well, Jane, if my sister wouldn't have had her leg cut off, she would have died. She got some sort of infection that nothing would cure, and it began to travel. Within a fairly short amount of time, it reached her heart. Antibiotics didn't work. Nothing that was tried, worked. She's only in her early 40's so I thought it particularly tragic. Plus, she has 5 children. I wasn't there - in a whole 'nother part of the country - and didn't find out until they were going to cut it off. Even IF natural methods would have worked, it would have taken too long, and she would have died from what I have gleaned from her DH, and the few medical records I was able to get ahold of. Apparently, they felt her only chance was to remove the source of the infection. She had gotten something similar years go, which they were able to stop, but it left a number of fairly large scars. One of my brothers is not only a physician, but also practices Holistic healing and is a Christian. I'm quite sure, knowing what he does about natural methods, that if he would have felt there would have been anyway to save his younger sister's leg, he would have done it. He doesn't live in the same state as she does, so he had to go to her and do what he could. But, obviously, since you need to be certified in every state you want to practice in here in the US, he didn't have any privileges - other than them knowing he was a physician and would listen to him because of that. Additionally, I don't know how you can say, some people don't need to get a leg, arm - whatever cut off. Sometimes things happen to those limbs, where there really isn't any choice. Terrible accident, part get's blown off, a tractor drives over it, one gets it stuck in a combine, bad frostbite, where certain areas are now dead - there are a number of situations, where if something isn't done quickly, that person may lose their life. Sometimes there are life or death situations where something must be done quickly. There is no other choice, if that person is to live. At this point, I have not heard of any natural method that works that quickly. And, I'm not just talking about a septic wound. That's still localized. Sometimes gangrene sets in. Sometimes the area is dead - and no amount of anything is going to bring it back, other than a miracle. Many of the things people talk about on this board are chronic conditions - and, IMO, can probably be healed or, at the very least, helped through natural methods. But, all anyone has to do is take a stroll in history, to realize that sometimes situations are so dire, and there isn't the time needed to have natural methods work. Regardless of what initially caused them....God - just look at the plague.....people used natural methods then. Look at how many children died from whooping cough. And, what about syphilis? You can't really tell me, there is anything that is going to cure that? Make someone better for a time, sure.....but cure? Let's just take a jump into recent history - what about AIDS? Are you telling me that the natural community has found a cure? Something that at least stops it? If they have, shame on them that they haven't made a big deal about it publicly. Constantly, until people would listen. I've heard of people who have been healthier, or who have been able to stave off certain things with natural methods - but no cure for the disease. I am, and have been for a very long time, a proponent of natural methods. I rarely took any of my children to the doctor. That is, after having someone I trusted, a D.O. as it happens, look at them when I first got them, and tell me what was going on. I feel one needs to know what you're dealing with. But, there are some things people have a genetic propensity to get. The most one can expect, is to contain whatever it is. I could give a long list of things people are born with, for which there is seemingly nor cure. Granted - there MAY be something - some tree somewhere, some plant - something - which might help. But, at this point no one has found either a cure, or something that will even help. Ever meet a kid with brittle bone disease? Or, what about some things that happen due to birth complications? Really, there are so many things out there, that no one has really found much, if any help for. And, again, I say if someone, anyone, in the natural community has found a way to fix, or deal with some of these things, shame on them that they haven't made a huge deal about it - and continue to do so until they get people to listen.. And, I still contend, there was need for certain medications - which is why some of them were made. Even if historically, doctors et al have tried to control what went on medically, it doesn't negate the fact that sometimes certain interventions are needed - which has been known as far back as the Egyptians - and probably even further. They utilized natural methods - and they didn't always work. Ergo, mummies and bones that have been found in which one is able to clearly see they tried to, usually unsuccessfully, perform surgery through the head - what I mean is, they cut someone's skull to get to whatever was the problem. So, while I am a very strong proponent of the natural way, I think it is sometimes dangerous and foolish to say that is the only way. Oh, and BTW, I've been using DMSO for more than 10 years......... Lynn PS - even though I was very upset when I wrote the post below, I still stand with everything I said.....Sometimes, people look everywhere, every method, and there is no curing what ails. I was just shrugged me off, as if I were having a temper tantrum. As if nothing I said had any validitity................ Hi Lynn - as a homeopath I say that it is not necessary to take anti-biotics or to have limbs removed - i say that even more strongly since only within the last 6 months I have discovered for myself the power of Miracle II products and of DMSO + many people would say CS too Homeopathy is SO powerful - I have treated septic wounds with results far more rapid than ABs would ever achieve. Best, Jane - Lynn Ward To: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:18 PM Re: drugs in drinkimg water? At 09:45 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote: Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. For example, aside from being an accident, there was a real need for antibiotics. People died all the time from cuts, and wounds. Not to mention childbirth. And, what about those poor souls who had to have a limb cut off? One of my sisters just went through that not too long ago. In the " good old days, " she would have died. Just as I would have before my 14th or 15 birthday, had not a tumor the size of an orange been removed from my abdomen when I was 11. Do you all really think there is a natural remedy for things like that? Never mind - don't bother to answer. I'm quite sure I know what y'all will say. One other point, and I'll go for the evening - aside from things that are now illegal, like the nectar from the poppies, do you really think there's anything out there, that is " natural " that is a really good pain killer, without knocking you out? Or, making you so stupid you can't think or remember? I'm sure someone will say yes, and I'm curious to know what you think would work for severe, chronic, unremitting pain. that never goes away. It's because of failed back surgeries, which if I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have been able to walk. My disks are just disintegrating. Couple that with the full-body spasms I've now been blessed with, and you have a less than pleasant day - and night. For me, it's not whether something takes the pain away, it's whether it makes it bearable for me. For me, pain is measured in degrees - never zero. On a scale of 1 to 10, the lowest I usually go is around a four. That's really low for me. Gnerally, I hover around a 6. When it's bad, I go to an 8 or 9. I try to reserve 10's for when it's so bad I feel as though I should pass out. But, I never do. I never have, no matter how bad the pain has ever been, in any situation. Don't you or anyone else dare say someone hasn't looked hard enough!!!! They may not have found the right thing, or combination of things, but don't say they haven't looked hard enough. Not to mention, that a number of drugs and medications, are made from natural substances. I'm not going to make a list now, because frankly, what you said really hit a cord. What you said, the way you said it, upset me so much, my face actually got hot. Burning hot. And it rarely does that. I have tried just about everything, in just about every combination you can think of, in the last 20+ years. I've pretty much resigned myself to the knowledge there are certain conditions, which you do admit to, that require the assistance of pharmaceuticals. You know, like it or not, it was need that generated a specific drug. Not the other way around. And, it's ignorant to even think so. So people take too much? Sure. Could they sometimes do things the natural way? Sure. Does medical science have all the answers? Of course not. But, regardless of how dogmatic most of you are, there are times, there are conditions which do not respond to natural ways. If everything did, there would have not been a need for other things. I agree that natural is best, but sometimes it doesn't work. There have been people on this board, who have explained the " normal " natural hasn't worked for them. And, I'm here to tell you, that even though I have hated taking steroids every time I've done it, without them, at this point, I would be permanently in a wheel chair (which I was in this time last year), wouldn't see too well, and doubt if my mental facilities would be working well enough to even partake in a group such as this. Oh, and BTW, an common side effect of steroids is Weigh Gain, not weight loss. And, not only do you gain weight, it's practically impossible to take it off for about a year.........Some of you sound so unhealthy, I sometimes wonder how you have the nerve to tell other people how they should do things, when what you recommend hasn't worked for you. Lynn PS. Went to the website - looked for how to safely dispose of drugs. Hard to figure out a way. Can't put them in the dump, they leach into the ground. can't put them in a plastic bag - someone might take them. Not to mention, plastic is not bio-degradable.....Noticed the article on Quiting smoking, and using the DRUG Chantix - DH's Dr recommended it, but we looked it up and saw the potential side effects. We decided, it was just too risky. It has horrible side effects. I can't believe anyone who pushes the natural way of doing things, would even suggest anyone take a drug like that. Not to mention, you're supposed to take it for quite a long time - don't remember the exact time, but we think it was around six months. There are other, safer ways, to quite. Clares, also I noticed you had taken what I read directly from the website. I wish you would have put that in your post, as I thought you had written everything that was in the post below. So, even though I was and am upset, my anger was misplaced, and for that, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Sorry to hear about your sister's terrible ordeal. After reading it, I wondered if any of the treating physicians had considered treatment with ozone? I am aware that ozone treatment is a very well known treatment but results with bagging legs, or arms, have saved many an extremity. Also application of ozone through ears, rectum or vagina has taken care of systemic health issues. It is worth looking into. Hanneke At 03:42 AM 4/04/2008, you wrote: At 03:07 AM 4/3/2008, you wrote: Well, Jane, if my sister wouldn't have had her leg cut off, she would have died. She got some sort of infection that nothing would cure, and it began to travel. Within a fairly short amount of time, it reached her heart. Antibiotics didn't work. Nothing that was tried, worked. She's only in her early 40's so I thought it particularly tragic. Plus, she has 5 children. I wasn't there - in a whole 'nother part of the country - and didn't find out until they were going to cut it off. Even IF natural methods would have worked, it would have taken too long, and she would have died from what I have gleaned from her DH, and the few medical records I was able to get ahold of. Apparently, they felt her only chance was to remove the source of the infection. She had gotten something similar years go, which they were able to stop, but it left a number of fairly large scars. One of my brothers is not only a physician, but also practices Holistic healing and is a Christian. I'm quite sure, knowing what he does about natural methods, that if he would have felt there would have been anyway to save his younger sister's leg, he would have done it. He doesn't live in the same state as she does, so he had to go to her and do what he could. But, obviously, since you need to be certified in every state you want to practice in here in the US, he didn't have any privileges - other than them knowing he was a physician and would listen to him because of that. Additionally, I don't know how you can say, some people don't need to get a leg, arm - whatever cut off. Sometimes things happen to those limbs, where there really isn't any choice. Terrible accident, part get's blown off, a tractor drives over it, one gets it stuck in a combine, bad frostbite, where certain areas are now dead - there are a number of situations, where if something isn't done quickly, that person may lose their life. Sometimes there are life or death situations where something must be done quickly. There is no other choice, if that person is to live. At this point, I have not heard of any natural method that works that quickly. And, I'm not just talking about a septic wound. That's still localized. Sometimes gangrene sets in. Sometimes the area is dead - and no amount of anything is going to bring it back, other than a miracle. Many of the things people talk about on this board are chronic conditions - and, IMO, can probably be healed or, at the very least, helped through natural methods. But, all anyone has to do is take a stroll in history, to realize that sometimes situations are so dire, and there isn't the time needed to have natural methods work. Regardless of what initially caused them....God - just look at the plague.....people used natural methods then. Look at how many children died from whooping cough. And, what about syphilis? You can't really tell me, there is anything that is going to cure that? Make someone better for a time, sure.....but cure? Let's just take a jump into recent history - what about AIDS? Are you telling me that the natural community has found a cure? Something that at least stops it? If they have, shame on them that they haven't made a big deal about it publicly. Constantly, until people would listen. I've heard of people who have been healthier, or who have been able to stave off certain things with natural methods - but no cure for the disease. I am, and have been for a very long time, a proponent of natural methods. I rarely took any of my children to the doctor. That is, after having someone I trusted, a D.O. as it happens, look at them when I first got them, and tell me what was going on. I feel one needs to know what you're dealing with. But, there are some things people have a genetic propensity to get. The most one can expect, is to contain whatever it is. I could give a long list of things people are born with, for which there is seemingly nor cure. Granted - there MAY be something - some tree somewhere, some plant - something - which might help. But, at this point no one has found either a cure, or something that will even help. Ever meet a kid with brittle bone disease? Or, what about some things that happen due to birth complications? Really, there are so many things out there, that no one has really found much, if any help for. And, again, I say if someone, anyone, in the natural community has found a way to fix, or deal with some of these things, shame on them that they haven't made a huge deal about it - and continue to do so until they get people to listen.. And, I still contend, there was need for certain medications - which is why some of them were made. Even if historically, doctors et al have tried to control what went on medically, it doesn't negate the fact that sometimes certain interventions are needed - which has been known as far back as the Egyptians - and probably even further. They utilized natural methods - and they didn't always work. Ergo, mummies and bones that have been found in which one is able to clearly see they tried to, usually unsuccessfully, perform surgery through the head - what I mean is, they cut someone's skull to get to whatever was the problem. So, while I am a very strong proponent of the natural way, I think it is sometimes dangerous and foolish to say that is the only way. Oh, and BTW, I've been using DMSO for more than 10 years......... Lynn PS - even though I was very upset when I wrote the post below, I still stand with everything I said.....Sometimes, people look everywhere, every method, and there is no curing what ails. I was just shrugged me off, as if I were having a temper tantrum. As if nothing I said had any validitity................ Hi Lynn - as a homeopath I say that it is not necessary to take anti-biotics or to have limbs removed - i say that even more strongly since only within the last 6 months I have discovered for myself the power of Miracle II products and of DMSO + many people would say CS too Homeopathy is SO powerful - I have treated septic wounds with results far more rapid than ABs would ever achieve. Best, Jane - Lynn Ward To: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:18 PM Re: drugs in drinkimg water? At 09:45 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote: Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. For example, aside from being an accident, there was a real need for antibiotics. People died all the time from cuts, and wounds. Not to mention childbirth. And, what about those poor souls who had to have a limb cut off? One of my sisters just went through that not too long ago. In the " good old days, " she would have died. Just as I would have before my 14th or 15 birthday, had not a tumor the size of an orange been removed from my abdomen when I was 11. Do you all really think there is a natural remedy for things like that? Never mind - don't bother to answer. I'm quite sure I know what y'all will say. One other point, and I'll go for the evening - aside from things that are now illegal, like the nectar from the poppies, do you really think there's anything out there, that is " natural " that is a really good pain killer, without knocking you out? Or, making you so stupid you can't think or remember? I'm sure someone will say yes, and I'm curious to know what you think would work for severe, chronic, unremitting pain. that never goes away. It's because of failed back surgeries, which if I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have been able to walk. My disks are just disintegrating. Couple that with the full-body spasms I've now been blessed with, and you have a less than pleasant day - and night. For me, it's not whether something takes the pain away, it's whether it makes it bearable for me. For me, pain is measured in degrees - never zero. On a scale of 1 to 10, the lowest I usually go is around a four. That's really low for me. Gnerally, I hover around a 6. When it's bad, I go to an 8 or 9. I try to reserve 10's for when it's so bad I feel as though I should pass out. But, I never do. I never have, no matter how bad the pain has ever been, in any situation. Don't you or anyone else dare say someone hasn't looked hard enough!!!! They may not have found the right thing, or combination of things, but don't say they haven't looked hard enough. Not to mention, that a number of drugs and medications, are made from natural substances. I'm not going to make a list now, because frankly, what you said really hit a cord. What you said, the way you said it, upset me so much, my face actually got hot. Burning hot. And it rarely does that. I have tried just about everything, in just about every combination you can think of, in the last 20+ years. I've pretty much resigned myself to the knowledge there are certain conditions, which you do admit to, that require the assistance of pharmaceuticals. You know, like it or not, it was need that generated a specific drug. Not the other way around. And, it's ignorant to even think so. So people take too much? Sure. Could they sometimes do things the natural way? Sure. Does medical science have all the answers? Of course not. But, regardless of how dogmatic most of you are, there are times, there are conditions which do not respond to natural ways. If everything did, there would have not been a need for other things. I agree that natural is best, but sometimes it doesn't work. There have been people on this board, who have explained the " normal " natural hasn't worked for them. And, I'm here to tell you, that even though I have hated taking steroids every time I've done it, without them, at this point, I would be permanently in a wheel chair (which I was in this time last year), wouldn't see too well, and doubt if my mental facilities would be working well enough to even partake in a group such as this. Oh, and BTW, an common side effect of steroids is Weigh Gain, not weight loss. And, not only do you gain weight, it's practically impossible to take it off for about a year.........Some of you sound so unhealthy, I sometimes wonder how you have the nerve to tell other people how they should do things, when what you recommend hasn't worked for you. Lynn PS. Went to the website - looked for how to safely dispose of drugs. Hard to figure out a way. Can't put them in the dump, they leach into the ground. can't put them in a plastic bag - someone might take them. Not to mention, plastic is not bio-degradable.....Noticed the article on Quiting smoking, and using the DRUG Chantix - DH's Dr recommended it, but we looked it up and saw the potential side effects. We decided, it was just too risky. It has horrible side effects. I can't believe anyone who pushes the natural way of doing things, would even suggest anyone take a drug like that. Not to mention, you're supposed to take it for quite a long time - don't remember the exact time, but we think it was around six months. There are other, safer ways, to quite. Clares, also I noticed you had taken what I read directly from the website. I wish you would have put that in your post, as I thought you had written everything that was in the post below. So, even though I was and am upset, my anger was misplaced, and for that, I apologize. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 3/04/2008 6:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Correction: ozone treatment is NOT a very well or widely known treatment At 01:43 PM 4/04/2008, you wrote: Sorry to hear about your sister's terrible ordeal. After reading it, I wondered if any of the treating physicians had considered treatment with ozone? I am aware that ozone treatment is a very well known treatment but results with bagging legs, or arms, have saved many an extremity. Also application of ozone through ears, rectum or vagina has taken care of systemic health issues. It is worth looking into. Hanneke At 03:42 AM 4/04/2008, you wrote: At 03:07 AM 4/3/2008, you wrote: Well, Jane, if my sister wouldn't have had her leg cut off, she would have died. She got some sort of infection that nothing would cure, and it began to travel. Within a fairly short amount of time, it reached her heart. Antibiotics didn't work. Nothing that was tried, worked. She's only in her early 40's so I thought it particularly tragic. Plus, she has 5 children. I wasn't there - in a whole 'nother part of the country - and didn't find out until they were going to cut it off. Even IF natural methods would have worked, it would have taken too long, and she would have died from what I have gleaned from her DH, and the few medical records I was able to get ahold of. Apparently, they felt her only chance was to remove the source of the infection. She had gotten something similar years go, which they were able to stop, but it left a number of fairly large scars. One of my brothers is not only a physician, but also practices Holistic healing and is a Christian. I'm quite sure, knowing what he does about natural methods, that if he would have felt there would have been anyway to save his younger sister's leg, he would have done it. He doesn't live in the same state as she does, so he had to go to her and do what he could. But, obviously, since you need to be certified in every state you want to practice in here in the US, he didn't have any privileges - other than them knowing he was a physician and would listen to him because of that. Additionally, I don't know how you can say, some people don't need to get a leg, arm - whatever cut off. Sometimes things happen to those limbs, where there really isn't any choice. Terrible accident, part get's blown off, a tractor drives over it, one gets it stuck in a combine, bad frostbite, where certain areas are now dead - there are a number of situations, where if something isn't done quickly, that person may lose their life. Sometimes there are life or death situations where something must be done quickly. There is no other choice, if that person is to live. At this point, I have not heard of any natural method that works that quickly. And, I'm not just talking about a septic wound. That's still localized. Sometimes gangrene sets in. Sometimes the area is dead - and no amount of anything is going to bring it back, other than a miracle. Many of the things people talk about on this board are chronic conditions - and, IMO, can probably be healed or, at the very least, helped through natural methods. But, all anyone has to do is take a stroll in history, to realize that sometimes situations are so dire, and there isn't the time needed to have natural methods work. Regardless of what initially caused them....God - just look at the plague.....people used natural methods then. Look at how many children died from whooping cough. And, what about syphilis? You can't really tell me, there is anything that is going to cure that? Make someone better for a time, sure.....but cure? Let's just take a jump into recent history - what about AIDS? Are you telling me that the natural community has found a cure? Something that at least stops it? If they have, shame on them that they haven't made a big deal about it publicly. Constantly, until people would listen. I've heard of people who have been healthier, or who have been able to stave off certain things with natural methods - but no cure for the disease. I am, and have been for a very long time, a proponent of natural methods. I rarely took any of my children to the doctor. That is, after having someone I trusted, a D.O. as it happens, look at them when I first got them, and tell me what was going on. I feel one needs to know what you're dealing with. But, there are some things people have a genetic propensity to get. The most one can expect, is to contain whatever it is. I could give a long list of things people are born with, for which there is seemingly nor cure. Granted - there MAY be something - some tree somewhere, some plant - something - which might help. But, at this point no one has found either a cure, or something that will even help. Ever meet a kid with brittle bone disease? Or, what about some things that happen due to birth complications? Really, there are so many things out there, that no one has really found much, if any help for. And, again, I say if someone, anyone, in the natural community has found a way to fix, or deal with some of these things, shame on them that they haven't made a huge deal about it - and continue to do so until they get people to listen.. And, I still contend, there was need for certain medications - which is why some of them were made. Even if historically, doctors et al have tried to control what went on medically, it doesn't negate the fact that sometimes certain interventions are needed - which has been known as far back as the Egyptians - and probably even further. They utilized natural methods - and they didn't always work. Ergo, mummies and bones that have been found in which one is able to clearly see they tried to, usually unsuccessfully, perform surgery through the head - what I mean is, they cut someone's skull to get to whatever was the problem. So, while I am a very strong proponent of the natural way, I think it is sometimes dangerous and foolish to say that is the only way. Oh, and BTW, I've been using DMSO for more than 10 years......... Lynn PS - even though I was very upset when I wrote the post below, I still stand with everything I said.....Sometimes, people look everywhere, every method, and there is no curing what ails. I was just shrugged me off, as if I were having a temper tantrum. As if nothing I said had any validitity................ Hi Lynn - as a homeopath I say that it is not necessary to take anti-biotics or to have limbs removed - i say that even more strongly since only within the last 6 months I have discovered for myself the power of Miracle II products and of DMSO + many people would say CS too Homeopathy is SO powerful - I have treated septic wounds with results far more rapid than ABs would ever achieve. Best, Jane - Lynn Ward To: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:18 PM Re: drugs in drinkimg water? At 09:45 PM 4/2/2008, you wrote: Actually, Clares, I have to disagree with you somewhat....I do think there are many conditions which can be solved the natural way, but not all. Just take a look through the history books. For example, aside from being an accident, there was a real need for antibiotics. People died all the time from cuts, and wounds. Not to mention childbirth. And, what about those poor souls who had to have a limb cut off? One of my sisters just went through that not too long ago. In the " good old days, " she would have died. Just as I would have before my 14th or 15 birthday, had not a tumor the size of an orange been removed from my abdomen when I was 11. Do you all really think there is a natural remedy for things like that? Never mind - don't bother to answer. I'm quite sure I know what y'all will say. One other point, and I'll go for the evening - aside from things that are now illegal, like the nectar from the poppies, do you really think there's anything out there, that is " natural " that is a really good pain killer, without knocking you out? Or, making you so stupid you can't think or remember? I'm sure someone will say yes, and I'm curious to know what you think would work for severe, chronic, unremitting pain. that never goes away. It's because of failed back surgeries, which if I wouldn't have had, I wouldn't have been able to walk. My disks are just disintegrating. Couple that with the full-body spasms I've now been blessed with, and you have a less than pleasant day - and night. For me, it's not whether something takes the pain away, it's whether it makes it bearable for me. For me, pain is measured in degrees - never zero. On a scale of 1 to 10, the lowest I usually go is around a four. That's really low for me. Gnerally, I hover around a 6. When it's bad, I go to an 8 or 9. I try to reserve 10's for when it's so bad I feel as though I should pass out. But, I never do. I never have, no matter how bad the pain has ever been, in any situation. Don't you or anyone else dare say someone hasn't looked hard enough!!!! They may not have found the right thing, or combination of things, but don't say they haven't looked hard enough. Not to mention, that a number of drugs and medications, are made from natural substances. I'm not going to make a list now, because frankly, what you said really hit a cord. What you said, the way you said it, upset me so much, my face actually got hot. Burning hot. And it rarely does that. I have tried just about everything, in just about every combination you can think of, in the last 20+ years. I've pretty much resigned myself to the knowledge there are certain conditions, which you do admit to, that require the assistance of pharmaceuticals. You know, like it or not, it was need that generated a specific drug. Not the other way around. And, it's ignorant to even think so. So people take too much? Sure. Could they sometimes do things the natural way? Sure. Does medical science have all the answers? Of course not. But, regardless of how dogmatic most of you are, there are times, there are conditions which do not respond to natural ways. If everything did, there would have not been a need for other things. I agree that natural is best, but sometimes it doesn't work. There have been people on this board, who have explained the " normal " natural hasn't worked for them. And, I'm here to tell you, that even though I have hated taking steroids every time I've done it, without them, at this point, I would be permanently in a wheel chair (which I was in this time last year), wouldn't see too well, and doubt if my mental facilities would be working well enough to even partake in a group such as this. Oh, and BTW, an common side effect of steroids is Weigh Gain, not weight loss. And, not only do you gain weight, it's practically impossible to take it off for about a year.........Some of you sound so unhealthy, I sometimes wonder how you have the nerve to tell other people how they should do things, when what you recommend hasn't worked for you. Lynn PS. Went to the website - looked for how to safely dispose of drugs. Hard to figure out a way. Can't put them in the dump, they leach into the ground. can't put them in a plastic bag - someone might take them. Not to mention, plastic is not bio-degradable.....Noticed the article on Quiting smoking, and using the DRUG Chantix - DH's Dr recommended it, but we looked it up and saw the potential side effects. We decided, it was just too risky. It has horrible side effects. I can't believe anyone who pushes the natural way of doing things, would even suggest anyone take a drug like that. Not to mention, you're supposed to take it for quite a long time - don't remember the exact time, but we think it was around six months. There are other, safer ways, to quite. Clares, also I noticed you had taken what I read directly from the website. I wish you would have put that in your post, as I thought you had written everything that was in the post below. So, even though I was and am upset, my anger was misplaced, and for that, I apologize. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 3/04/2008 6:36 PM Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1358 - Release Date: 3/04/2008 6:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 At 11:13 PM 4/3/2008, you wrote: Don't actually know - I didn't find out before it was too late. But, I was told, they tried just about everything. I am not even sure about what virus or infection she had - only that nothing anyone tried made it better. My sister isn't very good at explaining things, nor, do I think, she understands certain things. She's a sweetheart now, but was a terror once upon a time - did a lot of drugs and a lot of bad ones, including stuff like PCP. They clearly damaged something in her brain. So, even though her drug usage was close to 20 years ago now, I think some of the residual affects are permanent. Lynn Sorry to hear about your sister's terrible ordeal. After reading it, I wondered if any of the treating physicians had considered treatment with ozone? I am aware that ozone treatment is a very well known treatment but results with bagging legs, or arms, have saved many an extremity. Also application of ozone through ears, rectum or vagina has taken care of systemic health issues. It is worth looking into. Hanneke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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