Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Sharon I'm glad you brought this up as it's not discussed widely on many lists that I've seen. > I would guess that we do not even come close to knowing anything negative > about vaccines. What should give us a clue that they are not as safe as > we > think, is the desperation shown to get them into us. I feel very > suspicious of > vaccines My distrust is more of a gut feeling than anything. I haven't seen any data to show that they're not safe but it doesn't make me feel any better about them. There was someone in the UK who was researching the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccinations but his research was discredited. I'm not sure where that research stands now but I believe he moved to the US to do further research. I saw a documentary last year on this researcher and some of what he theorised made a lot of sense. I've spoken to people here who have autistic children who showed no sign of abnormal development or socialisation until after they'd been immunised and they're absolutely convinced that it was the immunisation that was responsible. The main thrust of his argument was not to combine immunisations and he believed there would be less problems if only single immunisations were administered. He also theorised that it was more likely to have adverse effects when children were immunised while showing any sign of illness eg common cold, when their resistance is lower. There's a network in Australia of people, particularly parents who are against mandatory immunisation. Many schools here will not accept children as students unless they've been immunised and even a government child payment is tied to having your children vaccinated (although I know several people who received the payment despite refusing to immunise their kids). I can't remember the name of the network but a magazine grew out of it, and the new magazine is called " Informed Choice " and you can find the website at <http://www.informedchoice.com.au/> I just had a look at the site and there's not much there, but if you go to products, then click on vaccinations there are plenty of books available there - but not much information otherwise. Wow, this was going to be a short reply but this is a particularly interesting topic area and it's good to see it being at least discussed:-) Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Vicki Just wanted to comment on what you typed below: > There's a network in Australia of people, particularly parents who are > against mandatory immunisation. Many schools here will not accept children > as students unless they've been immunised and even a government child > payment is tied to having your children vaccinated (although I know several > people who received the payment despite refusing to immunise their kids). You can enrol your child without immunisations, but you will need to remove your child from school if any related outbreaks occur. You can also get the government payments without immunising your child, you just need to have registered/stated your choice not to have the immunisations. It's all perfectly legal, those people who received the payments weren't doing anything wrong. Cheers Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Not in our state you can't ! They will not allow a child to be enrolled without their shot record being up to date . Also in our state the CPS ( Child Protective Service) can remove your child from your custody if you do not give them the shots. A friend of mine had that happen to her because she was 5 sets of shots behind on her 3 year old son. Sally - Deb Mahoney<deb_mahoney < > Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:31 AM Re: innoculations Hi Vicki Just wanted to comment on what you typed below: > There's a network in Australia of people, particularly parents who are > against mandatory immunisation. Many schools here will not accept children > as students unless they've been immunised and even a government child > payment is tied to having your children vaccinated (although I know several > people who received the payment despite refusing to immunise their kids). You can enrol your child without immunisations, but you will need to remove your child from school if any related outbreaks occur. You can also get the government payments without immunising your child, you just need to have registered/stated your choice not to have the immunisations. It's all perfectly legal, those people who received the payments weren't doing anything wrong. Cheers Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 My girlfriend had her Doctor give her a note stating that the child was highly allergic, and therefore could not get immunised... Just a thought , for those really stuck. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Just curious, being that I'm not in Australia .. what is a gov't child payment? Is it like Welfare or something? Also here are links to some Australian vaccine exemption laws and info: http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/australia.htm http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/rights.html *Smile* Chris (list mom) http://www.alittleolfactory.com > There's a network in Australia of people, particularly parents who are > against mandatory immunisation. Many schools here will not accept children > as students unless they've been immunised and even a government child > payment is tied to having your children vaccinated (although I know several > people who received the payment despite refusing to immunise their kids). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Carol, Don't know about Canada too much, but as far as I know there are exemptions available in Canada. can tell you that here in the US they don't tell folks much about the choice they have when it comes to so called mandatory vaccinations. Even in states like Colorado (and TX, and other states) where they have all 3 kinds of exemptions available (medical, religious and philosophical) they don't go out and really tell folks about them. As long as I exercise the right to use any of the various exemptions available in my state public school legally cannot deny my child's entry into the public school! Private schools can make their own decision though ... Here are some links for Canadian info ... http://64.41.99.118/vran/legal/legal_ont.htm http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/canada.htm *Smile* Chris (list mom) http://www.alittleolfactory.com Carol Pearce [cjpearce] Same goes for here in Ontario, My daughter was told that she would NOt be permittied to enter school unless all her shots were up to date and proof had to be provided. My Doctor bitched of the fact that, recently landed Immigrants could enter the school system without the shots, and God only knew what illnesses they were carrying with them. Carol > Not in our state you can't ! They will not allow a child to be enrolled without their shot record being up to date . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Same goes for here in Ontario, My daughter was told that she would NOt be permittied to enter school unless all her shots were up to date and proof had to be provided. My Doctor bitched of the fact that, recently landed Immigrants could enter the school system without the shots, and God only knew what illnesses they were carrying with them. Carol > Not in our state you can't ! They will not allow a child to be enrolled without their shot record being up to date . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Thanks Chris, this is great. This message has been respectfully snipped for all our digest members.:-) Carol > Hi Carol, > > Don't know about Canada too much, but as far as I know there are > exemptions available in Canada. > Here are some links for Canadian info ... > http://64.41.99.118/vran/legal/legal_ont.htm > http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/canada.htm > > *Smile* > Chris (list mom) > > http://www.alittleolfactory.com > > > Carol Pearce [cjpearce] > > > Same goes for here in Ontario, My daughter was told that she would NOt > be > permittied to enter school unless all her shots were up to date and > proof > had to be provided. My Doctor bitched of the fact that, recently landed > Immigrants could enter the school system without the shots, and God only > knew what illnesses they were carrying with them. > > Carol > > > Not in our state you can't ! They will not allow a child to be > enrolled > without their shot record being up to date . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Chris not sure if anyone has answered this further one, but here goes. Currently in Australia you receive for every child born a Maternity allowance, which is a once of lump sum payment after the child is born. Then at 18 months (which is when the " baby " immunisations are completed) you receive a further (smaller) lump sum payment.....I think this final payment is income based now...it never used to be. There are also other payments that are made to families, generally income related, to help with the cost of raising a child. But these payments are in no way linked to immunisations like the top payments are " hinted " towards. These aren't really welfare as I understand the terms use in America, as all families that apply will get the Maternity allowance. The payments are aimed at helping the majority of families with the cost of raising their children....for example my husband has a full time job, but I received a small amount each fortnight because I don't work....I certainly couldn't take a holiday on it but it helps buy bread and milk. Does that help? Deb ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Web Album~Captured Impressions www.starlaughter.com - " Christine Ziegler " <chrisziggy Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:37 AM RE: innoculations > > > Just curious, being that I'm not in Australia .. what is a gov't child > payment? Is it like Welfare or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Christine > Just curious, being that I'm not in Australia .. what is a gov't child > payment? Is it like Welfare or something? No, there is an allowance you are paid (provided you don't earn too much) per child. If you work, there is a cut off point at which you no longer receive the allowance. It's difficult to keep up with because it changes periodically and now there is also a bonus you're paid if you have a baby. > Also here are links to some Australian vaccine exemption laws and info: > http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/australia.htm > http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/rights.html Thanks for those links. I don't have children so I'm not affected personally by these issues but it doesn't mean I'm not interested, particularly if it is shaping our society. Maybe they're not right legally but if you want to send your child to a school and the school administrators tell you they won't accept your child, most parents won't argue with that. And they will accept that information regardless of what is legally correct. There is a Steiner school here in our valley that don't have a problem with children not being immunised; the other schools definitely do:-( Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Vicki I hope I am not boring too many people with this train of thought but... > Maybe they're not right legally but if you want to send your child to a > school and the school administrators tell you they won't accept your child, > most parents won't argue with that. And they will accept that information > regardless of what is legally correct. My two boys go to a small public school so my experience is based purely on that......but the issue of immunisations and the amount of pressure that they put on new parents would have to be decided at a school council level. I currently sit on the school council for my childrens school and this sort of " policy " would have to be passed through us before the school can hand out such information.....but with private schools....who knows. When enrolling your child you do have to provide proof of immunisations given, but if you have made a decision to not immunise your child you just have to simply fill out a different form. > There is a Steiner school here in our valley that don't have a problem with > children not being immunised; the other schools definitely do:-( With immunisation it is a battle of those that do and those that don't...... take care Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Deb > My two boys go to a small public school so my experience is based purely > on > that......but the issue of immunisations and the amount of pressure that > they put on new parents would have to be decided at a school council > level. I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head there. Even though Departments of Education in Australia are controlled by each state, individual school policies must vary enormously, and pressure exerted at a school level likewise, regardless of what the law says. I had a conversation recently with parents from two different families here and they were emphatic about not being able to send their children to the public schools here - maybe they weren't aware of filling out a different form but they are pretty enlightened people and are up on knowing their rights so maybe it was the way it was presented to them. The Steiner school is only for primary aged children so I would wonder what happens when they reach high school age... I remember when I was about 14 or 15 having to line up with girls of the same age at my school to have a rubella shot. Lots of girls fainted and no-one questioned having the shots. You were simply given a note to take home for your parents to sign and it was a fait accompli. My parents didn't question it and I didn't question it. At this stage I'd already had rubella twice! I'd better stop this now... Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 With all the processed food that is causing cancer and other terrible things and our children having to take these shots, not to mention the air quality.........makes you stop and wonder what the heck is going to happen next ? - Carol Pearce<cjpearce < > Wednesday, September 15, 2004 2:10 PM Re: innoculations Same goes for here in Ontario, My daughter was told that she would NOt be permittied to enter school unless all her shots were up to date and proof had to be provided. My Doctor bitched of the fact that, recently landed Immigrants could enter the school system without the shots, and God only knew what illnesses they were carrying with them. Carol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 That is sort of like how it is in England, where my hubby is from. They pay a small amount of money each week for each child no matter what the family income is. And there is no VAT ( tax) on children's clothes and shoes ect.. Hugs, Sally - Deb Mahoney<deb_mahoney < > Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:31 PM Re: innoculations Hi Chris not sure if anyone has answered this further one, but here goes. Currently in Australia you receive for every child born a Maternity allowance, which is a once of lump sum payment after the child is born. Then at 18 months (which is when the " baby " immunisations are completed) you receive a further (smaller) lump sum payment.....I think this final payment is income based now...it never used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Who would ever believe government statistics about something like vaccines., Several maybe 10 yrs ago I heard a Japanese Doctor speaking on the subject and at that time he believed the problem with Autism had to do with this Measels 3 way shot. He was going to give his little girl the shots but they were going to be seperate, not all in one. I had a feeling he was right. One problem we have with shots is, we are so afraid that the Pharmaceutical people will not get their money for the shots they give the tiny 3 day old infant all the shots before they leave the hospital. I do not even let my puppy have shots until they are 3 mo. old. Why would a human baby have shots like this??? No it is not for the welfare of the baby, you know that, whose welfare is it????? Think about it. I remember reading in the paper about a couple in Florida, and they actually grabbed the baby out of the mothers arms to get the shot in her as the mother was not allowing the shot. I am so sick of hearing about the welfare of the baby, I do not believe it is for anyones welfore but the money trail. Can you imagine a tiny baby getting all that poison in their body at once. How about the Hepatitis b shot. Right at birth the babies immune system has been compromised. I am an old lady now, but I do not think I would go in to have a baby in any standard hospital, I would want my baby to have the best chance it can have at a good immune system, and that does not involve shooting it up at 3 days old. I bet if the mother left the day she gave birth they would shoot it up. There has to be better ways, I do not know what it is, but I think I would sure find out. How about essential oils diffused in the house??? sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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