Avian flu

[Guest guest]

apropos of this post I am forwarding this article from the current The Nation on

this topic, which elucidates the current state of unpreparedness for an expected

" big one " in the US and the world. It's not about nat. med, but about the

misapprehension of public health realities by the current ship of fools, er,

state... but thought it might be germane. I send the whole art. rather than a

link, since it's available by sub only and thus I'm not sure if the url would

get you there. As a matter of public health, I thought some might be interested

to read.

ann

 

 

Avian Flu: A State of Unreadiness

by Mike Davis

 

 

Avian influenza is a viral asteroid on a collision course

with humanity. Since the horrific autumn of 1918, when a novel

influenza killed more than 2 percent of humanity in a few months,

scientists have dreaded the reappearance of a wild flu strain

totally new to the human immune system.

 

The flu subtype known as H5N1, which claimed its first victims in Hong

Kong in 1997, is that nightmare come true. Now endemic in waterfowl and

poultry throughout East Asia, it is the most lethal strain of influenza

ever seen, killing chickens, people and even tigers with terrifying

ease.

 

Although avian flu officially has taken fewer than 100 human lives so

far (mainly farmers and their children in daily contact with poultry),

most experts believe that H5N1 is on the verge of acquiring the new

genes or amino acids that would enable it to travel at pandemic velocity

across a densely urbanized world, with the potential, warns

the World Health Organization, to cause 20 million deaths.

 

Since early spring, moreover, all the biological weather vanes have

been pointing in the direction of imminent pandemic. In Vietnam the

virus has suddenly increased its transmissibility, with several likely

human-to-human cases. In China, where officials now admit that more than

1,000 migratory birds have died, there are unofficial Internet

reports--strongly denied by Beijing--of 120 related human fatalities. In

an unprecedented collaboration to sound the tocsin, Nature and Foreign

Affairs have recently devoted special issues to the " plausible

scenario " of a pandemic that kills millions and wrecks the global

economy.

 

Governments have had ample warning, unlike the surprise of HIV/AIDS,

that a new plague is coming. Indeed, Washington has had almost nine

years to heed the advice of top influenza experts and mobilize the

nation's resources to battle H5N1 in Asia and at home. The Bush

Administration's failure to do so makes " homeland security " into a sick

joke whose punch line may be a repetition of the 1918 catastrophe.

 

This past December 3, Secretary of Health and Human Services

(HHS) Tommy Thompson held a press conference to announce his

resignation. His tenure ended with a note of frankness rare in the Bush

era. Unlike the previous seven Cabinet members purged in the

President's postelection housecleaning, Thompson, according to the

New York Times, " gave candid, unexpected answers to questions posed to

him. " Asked what worried him most, Thompson cited the threat of a human

flu pandemic. " This is a really huge bomb that could adversely impact on

the healthcare of the world, " killing 30 million to 70 million people,

he said.

 

The Secretary, of course, spoke with the authority of someone with

access to the best medical intelligence in the world, but reporters were

undoubtedly surprised that Thompson was so alarmed about a peril that

his department, with its $543 billion annual budget--a quarter of the

federal total--had done so little to address. In the 2005 fiscal year,

for example, Thompson had allocated more funds to " abstinence education "

than to the development of an avian influenza vaccine that might save

millions of lives. This is but one example of the way that all

Americans, but especially children, the elderly and the uninsured, have

been placed in harm's way by the Bush regime's bizarre skewing of

public-health priorities. On Thompson's watch, HHS and the Pentagon

spent more than $12 billion to safeguard national security against

largely hypothetical threats like smallpox and anthrax, even as they

pursued a penny-pinching strategy to deal with the most dangerous and

likely " bioterrorist " : avian influenza. The

Administration's lackadaisical response to the pandemic

threat (despite Secretary Thompson's personal anxiety) is only the tip

of the iceberg. Over the past generation, writes Lancet editor Richard

Horton, " the U.S. public-health system has been slowly and quietly

falling apart. "

 

Under Democrats as well as Republicans, Washington has looked the other

way as local health departments have lost funding and crucial hospital

" surge capacity " has been eroded in the wake of the HMO revolution. The

government has also refused to address the growing lack of new vaccines

and antibiotics caused by the pharmaceutical industry's withdrawal

from sectors it considers to be insufficiently profitable; moreover,

revolutionary breakthroughs in vaccine design and manufacturing

technology have languished because of lack of sponsorship by either the

government or the drug industry.

 

In October 2000 the GAO scolded HHS for making so little progress in

the development of an avian flu vaccine. It warned that the United

States might have only a month (or less) of warning before a

pandemic became widespread, and it accused HHS of failing to develop

contingency plans to insure expanded vaccine-manufacturing capacity. It

also pointed to a major contradiction in business-as-usual

reliance on the private sector: " Because no market

exists for vaccine after [flu season], manufacturers switch their

capacity to other uses between about mid-August and

December. " At minimum, HHS needed to find some way

to keep production lines running full time, all year long, as well as

diversify the number of companies committed to vaccine production. In

addition, the GAO chided HHS for dithering over whether to stockpile

antivirals, even as top influenza experts were begging the government to

procure as much oseltamivir (Tamiflu)--the most potent antiviral

medicine for avian flu now available--as possible. Finally, the

audit faulted HHS for poor coordination of the respective

roles of the federal government, state agencies and private

manufacturers. Almost eight years of " process, " the GAO report implied,

had failed to achieve a " plan " in any substantive or meaningful sense.

 

All the flaws in HHS's influenza program (particularly the lack of an

antiviral stockpile and adequate vaccine-manufacturing capacity),

were inherited by Thompson, the former governor of Wisconsin,

described as a " a straight shooter " by Edward Kennedy. The Clinton

Administration's handling of public-health issues had certainly been

disappointing, but the incoming Bush Administration was frightening to

everyone who had been fighting to prevent the total meltdown of urban

public health. Then, in September 2001, a new dispensation suddenly

arrived in the form of poisoned letters contaminated with " weaponized "

anthrax. DNA sequencing would later reveal that the anthrax strain used

in the attacks probably originated from the Army's own laboratory at

Fort Detrick, Maryland, yet this probable " inside job " became the

principal justification for national hysteria about the threat of

" bioterrorism " supposedly posed by Iraq, Al Qaeda and other alien

enemies of the United States.

 

With shockingly little debate and without any real evidence that such a

threat even existed, most public-health advocacy groups, as well as such

leading Democrats as John Edwards and Ted Kennedy, became ardent

shareholders in the bioterrorism myth. Even the liberal Trust for

America's Health glibly talked of an " Age of Bioterrorism, " as if

malevolent hands were already opening little vials of botulism and ebola

on Main Street. In fact, the irresistible attraction of the so-called

health/security nexus was the billions that the White House was

proposing to spend on Project Bioshield, Bush's " major research and

production effort to guard our people against bioterrorism. " Many

well-meaning people undoubtedly reasoned that, however farfetched the

excuse, the Republicans were finally throwing money in a worthwhile

direction and that some of the windfall would surely find its way to

real needs after decades of neglect. Because the defensive preparations

against bioterrorism borrowed heavily from pandemic planning, there was

hope that influenza (previously shortchanged in the design of the

National Pharmaceutical Stockpile in 1999) would be accorded its proper

rank as a " most wanted " bioterrorist weapon.

 

Certainly the leading influenza researchers, from the first H5N1

outbreak in 1997, have been doing their utmost to alert medical

colleagues worldwide to the urgent threat of avian flu, as well as

outlining the immediate steps the Bush Administration and other

governments needed to take. As befitted his position as " pope " of

influenza researchers, Robert Webster of Saint Jude Hospital in Memphis

tirelessly preached the same sermon: " If a pandemic happened today,

hospital facilities would be overwhelmed and understaffed because

many medical personnel would be afflicted with the disease. Vaccine

production would be slow because many drug-company employees would also

be victims. Critical community services would be immobilized. Reserves

of existing vaccines, M2 inhibitors and NA inhibitors would be quickly

depleted, leaving most people vulnerable to infection. "

 

Webster stressed the particular urgency of increasing the production and

stockpiling of the NA inhibitor Tamiflu. Because this strategic

antiviral was " in woefully short supply " --it is made by Roche at a

single factory in Switzerland--Webster and his colleagues underlined the

need for resolute government action: " The cost of making the drugs, as

opposed to the price the pharmaceutical companies charge

consumers, would not be exorbitant. Such expenditure by

governments would be a very worthwhile investment in the defense against

this debilitating and often deadly virus. " Failure to act would mean

intense competition over the small inventory of life-saving

Tamiflu. " Who should get these drugs? " Webster asked. " Healthcare

workers and those in essential services, obviously, but who would

identify those? There would not be nearly enough for those who needed

them in the developed world, let alone the rest of the world's

population. "

 

Webster wasn't calling for miracles, just prudent action to insure an

adequate antiviral stockpile. But for almost three years he and other

influenza experts were ignored, as were those who argued more generally

that " the best way to manage bioterrorism is to improve the management

of existing public-health threats. " The Bush Administration instead

fast-tracked vaccination programs for smallpox and anthrax, based on

fanciful scenarios that might have embarrassed Tom Clancy. In reality,

the biodefense boom was designed to build support for the invasion of

Iraq by sowing the fear that Saddam Hussein might use germ warfare

against the United States. In any event, Washington spent $1 billion

expanding a smallpox vaccine stockpile that some experts claim was

already quite sufficient. Hundreds of thousands of GIs were forced to

undergo the vaccinations, but front-line health workers--the second tier

of the smallpox campaign--largely boycotted the Administration's

attempts to cajole " voluntary " participation.

 

In spite of this fiasco and millions of doses of unused vaccine, the

Administration pressed ahead with the development of second-generation

smallpox and anthrax vaccines, as well as vaccines for such exotic

plagues as ebola fever; it continued to reject the " all hazards "

strategy recommended by most public-health experts in favor of a

so-called " siloed approach " that focused on a short list of possible

bioweapons. In testimony before the House of Representatives, Tommy

Thompson explained that while " private investment should drive the

development of most medical products, " only the government was

in a position to develop those products that " everyone hopes...will

never be needed " as a protection against " rare yet deadly threats. " The

government, in other words, was willing to spend lots of money on

biological threats that were unlikely or farfetched but not on

antivirals or new antibiotics for the diseases that were actually most

menacing, like avian flu.

 

As biodefense morphed into the biggest show in town (growing from $1

billion in fiscal 2002 to more than $5 billion in fiscal 2004),

Thompson's perverse logic soon had perverse impacts that confounded the

hopes of the biodefense boom's early enthusiasts. For example, instead

of spurring a welcome trickle-down of money for research on big killers

like influenza, malaria and tuberculosis, biodefense projects stole top

laboratory talent away from major disease research. With the National

Institutes of Health's research budget barely keeping pace with

inflation (after its banquet days under Clinton), there was an

irresistible tropism of researchers and research projects toward

biodefense windfalls. Reporting on this new " brain

drain, " writer Merrill Goozner cited the case of a leading UCLA lab that

phased out its " basic science research on TB in favor of studying

tularemia [rabbit fever] " --a disease that has zero public-health

importance--because the latter infection was " on the government's A-list

of potential bioterrorism agents " and tuberculosis wasn't. (After

workers at a different lab accidentally infected themselves with

tularemia, some scientists expressed concern to the New York Times that

" leaky " biodefense research may pose a menace to public health

comparable to the still uncertain threat from bioterrorism.)

 

To many infectious-disease experts, Project Bioshield was Bush and

Thompson's version of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: with

priorities established in inverse relation to actual probabilities of

attack or outbreak. " It's too bad that Saddam Hussein's not behind

influenza, " complained Dr. Paul Offit, a dissident member of the

government's advisory panel on vaccination. " We'd be doing a better

job. " Indeed, HHS's zeal to combat hypothetical bioterrorism contrasts

with its incredible negligence in exercising oversight of the nation's

" fragile " influenza vaccine supply. As the GAO had warned Clinton's HHS

Secretary Donna Shalala, vaccine availability in a pandemic would depend

on the stability and surge capacity of existing production lines. But as

shocked Americans discovered in the winter of 2003-04 and again in early

fall 2004, the entire vaccine manufacturing system had decayed almost to

the point of collapse. While Bush and Thompson were trying to bribe the

pharmaceutical industry to join Project Bioshield, the same industry was

abdicating its elementary responsibility to maintain a lifeline of new

vaccines and antibiotics. Products that actually cure or prevent

disease, like vaccines and antibiotics, are less profitable, so

infectious disease has largely become an orphan market. As industry

analysts point out, worldwide sales for all vaccines produce less

revenue than Pfizer's income from a single anticholesterol medication.

 

Thompson's successor, Mike Leavitt, has repeatedly reassured

Congress and the public that the pandemic danger has the

Administration's full attention and that he is receiving daily briefings

on the worrisome situation in Asia. But in an extraordinary lecture at

Harvard on June 1, Senate majority leader Bill Frist painted an

apocalyptic picture of the chaos, even societal breakdown, that would

ensue from our current lack of resources to deal with an avian flu or

smallpox outbreak: " Hospitals and our long neglected public-health

infrastructure would be quickly overwhelmed. In such a circumstance,

panic, suffering and the spread of the disease would intensify....

Millions might perish, with whole families dying and no one to

memorialize them. " The Tennessee Republican, who long boasted of being

the only doctor in the Senate, also blasted the government's failure to

purchase an adequate stockpile of Tamiflu. " To acquire more antiviral

agent, we would need to get in line behind Britain and France and Canada

and others who have tens of millions of doses on order. "

 

Without reference to billions already wasted, Frist proposed an urgent

new Manhattan Project to protect the nation against avian flu and other

infectious diseases and bioterrorist agents. From the heights of

the Republican leadership it is hard to imagine a more devastating

admission of the Administration's dereliction of duty to

the health of the nation and the world.

 

 

 

This article can be found on the web at:

 

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050718 & s=davis

 

 

 

Visit The Nation

http://www.thenation.com/

 

Subscribe to The Nation:

https://ssl.thenation.com/

-

Par Scott

Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:56 AM

Avian Flu

 

 

Has anybody heard any thoughts on the treatment of Avian Flu? Would the

various SARS protocols be more or less effective? It sounds like its primarily

respiratory with some reproduction in the gut with irritation and diarrhea. Is

there anybody who has looked at the cyclical nature fo the flu season this year,

and if so, is this season supposed to be strong?

 

Par

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Isn't it the case that the excess or deficiency symptoms are a reaction of t

he patient, and are due less to the specific pathogen? Wouldn't it be the

case that most externally caused illnesses result in excess symptoms for

children and that the elderly just don't have much energy for lots of the

symptoms

of excess conditions?

 

Guy Porter

 

In a message dated 11/21/2005 10:51:07 A.M. Central Standard Time,

herbbabe writes:

 

> One of the many stories on this topic that I've seen come through made it

> sound like this flu was harder on pediatric cases, which led me to believe

> that this is predominately an excess condition. However, I can't find that

> specific source right now. Rather, I'm reading that the avion flu is harder

> on the elderly

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca884\

0fc605814f24

 

Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0\

397c6e1e4363f9ea89

 

I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao Hui

Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

 

-al.

 

On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>

> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee and

> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>

> --

> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> President China Herb Company

> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

> office: 215- 438-2977

> fax: 215-849-3338

> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding star anise: the ³tamiflu² content is so small you¹d have to take a

toxic dose. So that¹s out. Wondering about all our typical antivirals: ban

lan gen, da qing ye, huang lian, eg.

 

cara

 

 

 

 

> Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

> http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8

> 840fc605814f24

>

> Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

> http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3a

> f0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

>

> I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao Hui

> Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

>

> -al.

>

> On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>> >

>> > I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee and

>> > Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>> >

>> > --

>> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

>> > President China Herb Company

>> > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

>> > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

>> > office: 215- 438-2977

>> > fax: 215-849-3338

>> > Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

>> > Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

One of the many stories on this topic that I've seen come through made it

sound like this flu was harder on pediatric cases, which led me to believe

that this is predominately an excess condition. However, I can't find that

specific source right now. Rather, I'm reading that the avion flu is harder

on the elderly.

 

Here are a few cases discussed that talk about commonaliities to those who

have the worse cases of bird flu. I see that low white blood cell count is

among those items that severe cases have in common. That's a WBCs are huang

qi thing, right?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=9\

482437 & dopt=Abstract

 

 

On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>

> Regarding star anise: the ³tamiflu² content is so small you¹d have to

> take a

> toxic dose. So that¹s out. Wondering about all our typical antivirals: ban

> lan gen, da qing ye, huang lian, eg.

>

> cara

>

>

>

>

> > Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

> >

> http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8

> > 840fc605814f24

> >

> > Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

> >

> http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3a

> > f0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

> >

> > I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao

> Hui

> > Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

> >

> > -al.

> >

> > On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

> >> >

> >> > I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee

> and

> >> > Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> >> > President China Herb Company

> >> > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> >> > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

> >> > office: 215- 438-2977

> >> > fax: 215-849-3338

> >> > Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com> <

> http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

> >> > Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com> <

> http://Www.carafrank.com>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Al,

 

Star Anise is in the Chen and Chen herb book, Da Hui Xiang, right next to Xiao

Hui Xiang. It is acrid, sweet and warm enters liver, kidney and spleen. Xiao Hui

Xiang is listed as fennel seed, fennel friut.

 

-

Al Stone

Monday, November 21, 2005 10:58 AM

Re: Avian flu

 

 

Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca884\

0fc605814f24

 

Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0\

397c6e1e4363f9ea89

 

I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao Hui

Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

 

-al.

 

On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>

> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee and

> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>

> --

> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> President China Herb Company

> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

> office: 215- 438-2977

> fax: 215-849-3338

> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Huang qi, and also nu zhen zi is a white blood thing.

Cara

 

 

 

 

> One of the many stories on this topic that I've seen come through made it

> sound like this flu was harder on pediatric cases, which led me to believe

> that this is predominately an excess condition. However, I can't find that

> specific source right now. Rather, I'm reading that the avion flu is harder

> on the elderly.

>

> Here are a few cases discussed that talk about commonaliities to those who

> have the worse cases of bird flu. I see that low white blood cell count is

> among those items that severe cases have in common. That's a WBCs are huang

> qi thing, right?

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids

> =9482437 & dopt=Abstract

>

>

> On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>> >

>> > Regarding star anise: the ³tamiflu² content is so small you¹d have to

>> > take a

>> > toxic dose. So that¹s out. Wondering about all our typical antivirals: ban

>> > lan gen, da qing ye, huang lian, eg.

>> >

>> > cara

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>> > > Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

>>> > >

>> >

>>

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8

>>> > > 840fc605814f24

>>> > >

>>> > > Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

>>> > >

>> >

>>

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3a

>>> > > f0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

>>> > >

>>> > > I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao

>> > Hui

>>> > > Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

>>> > >

>>> > > -al.

>>> > >

>>> > > On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> > I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides >>>>>

Kimchee

>> > and

>>>>> > >> > Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> > --

>>>>> > >> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

>>>>> > >> > President China Herb Company

>>>>> > >> > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

>>>>> > >> > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

>>>>> > >> > office: 215- 438-2977

>>>>> > >> > fax: 215-849-3338

>>>>> > >> > Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com> <

>> > " >http://Www.chinaherbco.com> <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

>>>>> > >> > Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com> <

>> > " >http://Www.carafrank.com> <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>> > >> >

[Guest guest]

Star anise and xiao hui xiang are not the same herb. Star anise is a dried

fruit of a tree, and is used as a cooking spice, not as medicine to my

knowledge. Xiao hui xiang, also called fennel or anise, is a seed from an

herbaceous plant in the celery and carrot family.

 

, L.Ac

Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

Cottonwood, AZ 86326

(928) 274-1373

 

Al Stone <al wrote:

Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca884\

0fc605814f24

 

Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0\

397c6e1e4363f9ea89

 

I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is Xiao Hui

Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

 

-al.

 

On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>

> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee and

> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>

> --

> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> President China Herb Company

> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

> office: 215- 438-2977

> fax: 215-849-3338

> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jake Fratkin has a nice discussion titled " Modern Applications For

Anti-Viral Therapy " you can find it at these links:

 

http://www.drjakefratkin.com/articles.htm

http://www.drjakefratkin.com/pdf/AT_Virus.pdf

 

, Cara Frank <herbbabe@v...>

wrote:

>

> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides Kimchee and

> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>

> --

> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> President China Herb Company

> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

> office: 215- 438-2977

> fax: 215-849-3338

> Www.chinaherbco.com

> Www.carafrank.com

[Guest guest]

I think it goes without saying that if such an epidemic does arise,

and I have my doubts that it will, that it will take not a

symptomatic response with a couple of herbs or formulas, but a deep

analysis of all factors contributing to the epidemic, and the symptom

patterns that ensue. We will need to use everything we've got, all

our tools, both physical and intellectual to effectively deal with

such an epidemic. Are we really up to the task as a profession?

 

 

On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:31 AM, wrote:

 

> Star anise and xiao hui xiang are not the same herb. Star anise is

> a dried fruit of a tree, and is used as a cooking spice, not as

> medicine to my knowledge. Xiao hui xiang, also called fennel or

> anise, is a seed from an herbaceous plant in the celery and carrot

> family.

>

> , L.Ac

> Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

> 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

> Cottonwood, AZ 86326

> (928) 274-1373

>

> Al Stone <al wrote:

> Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

> http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?

> article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8840fc605814f24

>

> Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

> http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?

> article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

>

> I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is

> Xiao Hui

> Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

>

> -al.

>

> On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>>

>> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides

>> Kimchee and

>> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>>

>> --

>> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

>> President China Herb Company

>> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

>> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

>> office: 215- 438-2977

>> fax: 215-849-3338

>> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

>> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I think that as a profession we are more equipped than any other: we really

do have an arsenal of herbs at our disposal. How effective they are in the

real world is unknown. And I think it is OK to think about this in general

terms: Epidemics ( EPF¹s that manifest in the same way, irrespective of

constitional factors) is a cause of disease in Chinese medicine. I also have

doubts that any epidemic will arise. IMHO, It¹s a rather transparent attempt

by the Bush administration to worry us about something other than the war.

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I think it goes without saying that if such an epidemic does arise,

> and I have my doubts that it will, that it will take not a

> symptomatic response with a couple of herbs or formulas, but a deep

> analysis of all factors contributing to the epidemic, and the symptom

> patterns that ensue. We will need to use everything we've got, all

> our tools, both physical and intellectual to effectively deal with

> such an epidemic. Are we really up to the task as a profession?

>

>

> On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:31 AM, wrote:

>

>> > Star anise and xiao hui xiang are not the same herb. Star anise is

>> > a dried fruit of a tree, and is used as a cooking spice, not as

>> > medicine to my knowledge. Xiao hui xiang, also called fennel or

>> > anise, is a seed from an herbaceous plant in the celery and carrot

>> > family.

>> >

>> > , L.Ac

>> > Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

>> > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

>> > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

>> > (928) 274-1373

>> >

>> > Al Stone <al wrote:

>> > Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

>> > http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?

>> > article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8840fc605814f24

>> >

>> > Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

>> > http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?

>> > article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

>> >

>> > I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is

>> > Xiao Hui

>> > Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

>> >

>> > -al.

>> >

>> > On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides

>>> >> Kimchee and

>>> >> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>>> >>

>>> >> --

>>> >> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

>>> >> President China Herb Company

>>> >> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

>>> >> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

>>> >> office: 215- 438-2977

>>> >> fax: 215-849-3338

>>> >> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

>>> >> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

[Guest guest]

While I agree with you about the media fear that is hyping the

epidemic, I have to disagree in one small way. We are POTENTIALLY

equipped more than any other alternative profession. The problem is

two-fold: 1) the lack of infrastructure to deal with public health

issues and 2) the lack of training by a majority of CM practitioners

in wen bing theory and prescriptions.

 

 

On Nov 21, 2005, at 3:03 PM, Cara Frank wrote:

 

> I think that as a profession we are more equipped than any other:

> we really

> do have an arsenal of herbs at our disposal. How effective they are

> in the

> real world is unknown. And I think it is OK to think about this in

> general

> terms: Epidemics ( EPF’s that manifest in the same way,

> irrespective of

> constitional factors) is a cause of disease in Chinese medicine. I

> also have

> doubts that any epidemic will arise. IMHO, It’s a rather

> transparent attempt

> by the Bush administration to worry us about something other than

> the war.

> Cara

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is the patient's constitution that will cause an excess or deficient

type presentation, not necessarily the pathogen, and indeed there are kids

who tend toward deficiency type illness (long term, low grade) and those who

favor the excess type (short term, strong illness). Certainly, as Z'ev

reminded us, we'll need to treat the patient's presentation, not statistics.

 

Still, when we're talking about a pandemic, we have to have some sort of

response for public health rather than everybody going to the practitioners

on this list. : )

 

-al.

 

On 11/21/05, DrGRPorter <DrGRPorter wrote:

>

>

> Isn't it the case that the excess or deficiency symptoms are a reaction of

> t

> he patient, and are due less to the specific pathogen? Wouldn't it be the

> case that most externally caused illnesses result in excess symptoms for

> children and that the elderly just don't have much energy for lots of the

> symptoms

> of excess conditions?

>

> Guy Porter

>

> In a message dated 11/21/2005 10:51:07 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> herbbabe writes:

>

> > One of the many stories on this topic that I've seen come through made

> it

> > sound like this flu was harder on pediatric cases, which led me to

> believe

> > that this is predominately an excess condition. However, I can't find

> that

> > specific source right now. Rather, I'm reading that the avion flu is

> harder

> > on the elderly

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

So it might make sense to start holding forums or workshops on this very

issue to get the conversation going so there is adequate information out

in the acupuncture world. Encouraging review of the Wen Bing theory and

prescriptions. Right?

 

Rozz

 

 

wrote:

> While I agree with you about the media fear that is hyping the

> epidemic, I have to disagree in one small way. We are POTENTIALLY

> equipped more than any other alternative profession. The problem is

> two-fold: 1) the lack of infrastructure to deal with public health

> issues and 2) the lack of training by a majority of CM practitioners

> in wen bing theory and prescriptions.

>

>

> On Nov 21, 2005, at 3:03 PM, Cara Frank wrote:

>

>

>>I think that as a profession we are more equipped than any other:

>>we really

>>do have an arsenal of herbs at our disposal. How effective they are

>>in the

>>real world is unknown. And I think it is OK to think about this in

>>general

>>terms: Epidemics ( EPF’s that manifest in the same way,

>>irrespective of

>>constitional factors) is a cause of disease in Chinese medicine. I

>>also have

>>doubts that any epidemic will arise. IMHO, It’s a rather

>>transparent attempt

>>by the Bush administration to worry us about something other than

>>the war.

>>Cara

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

During the SARS business there was a lot of prophylactic herbal preparations

floating around, there was no real evaluation of their effectiveness, but

they consisted of typical antiviral herbs (ban lan gen, etc) plus wind heat

stuff. We ran a series of articles on various aspects of the SARS epidemic

which I will try to get some PDFs of for the CHA website. I think the best

approach is to pay allot of attention to wen bing treatment models as they

unfold in China and apply them carefully. It might make sense to set up

some correspondence with Chinese authorities on treatment strategies, or, a

flu case clinic online for English speaking authors.

 

My recollection was that certain herbs became difficult to get for a while,

so as individual practitioners it might make sense to stock up on usual

suspects, or consider acupuncture approaches as well

 

Par Scott.

 

-

" Al Stone " <al

 

Monday, November 21, 2005 8:45 PM

Re: Avian flu

 

 

> Yes, it is the patient's constitution that will cause an excess or

> deficient

> type presentation, not necessarily the pathogen, and indeed there are kids

> who tend toward deficiency type illness (long term, low grade) and those

> who

> favor the excess type (short term, strong illness). Certainly, as Z'ev

> reminded us, we'll need to treat the patient's presentation, not

> statistics.

>

> Still, when we're talking about a pandemic, we have to have some sort of

> response for public health rather than everybody going to the

> practitioners

> on this list. : )

>

> -al.

>

> On 11/21/05, DrGRPorter <DrGRPorter wrote:

>>

>>

>> Isn't it the case that the excess or deficiency symptoms are a reaction

>> of

>> t

>> he patient, and are due less to the specific pathogen? Wouldn't it be the

>> case that most externally caused illnesses result in excess symptoms for

>> children and that the elderly just don't have much energy for lots of the

>> symptoms

>> of excess conditions?

>>

>> Guy Porter

>>

>> In a message dated 11/21/2005 10:51:07 A.M. Central Standard Time,

>> herbbabe writes:

>>

>> > One of the many stories on this topic that I've seen come through made

>> it

>> > sound like this flu was harder on pediatric cases, which led me to

>> believe

>> > that this is predominately an excess condition. However, I can't find

>> that

>> > specific source right now. Rather, I'm reading that the avion flu is

>> harder

>> > on the elderly

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Cara. When it first came out, the papers mentioned something about

Bush trying to change the laws to allow him to deploy the army on domestic soil

in order to be available for the coming epidemic! Martial law disguised as

well-meaning planning for the great bird flu of 2005! I seemed to be the only

person I knew who noticed that bit, and it hasn't been mentioned in the press

since, to my knowledge. Perhaps it would be better if we prepared to treat

bullet wounds...

 

But not to digress into politics (whew...).

 

In response to a previous comment regarding herbal treatment, certainly we

have to treat the patient's presentation, but if it is an epidemic disease we

must keep in mind the pattern of disease progression seen in other patients,

and, as Jake Fratkin points out in his article, it may also be effective to

include a large amount of anti-viral herbs. However, traditional Shang Han Lun

theory would likely be at variance to this last approach. Zhang Zhong Jing's

book was legendarily a response to his having survived an epidemic that killed

half of his village or more, yet uses the approach of treating the mechanism

exclusively. I would be curious to know how the Shang Han Lun-favoring

herbalists in China fared in treating the SARS outbreak, or currently with the

Avian flu. The anti-viral approach smacks to me a bit of allopathy, especially

when it's at levels of 74% and such. Perhaps this high ratio of anti-viral herbs

is required to make those tiny little patents effective, whereas

with an actual decoction the ratio could be much less, along the lines of Yin

Qiao San.

 

-Matt Sieradski

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

I think that as a profession we are more equipped than any other: we really

do have an arsenal of herbs at our disposal. How effective they are in the

real world is unknown. And I think it is OK to think about this in general

terms: Epidemics ( EPF¹s that manifest in the same way, irrespective of

constitional factors) is a cause of disease in Chinese medicine. I also have

doubts that any epidemic will arise. IMHO, It¹s a rather transparent attempt

by the Bush administration to worry us about something other than the war.

Cara

 

 

 

 

> I think it goes without saying that if such an epidemic does arise,

> and I have my doubts that it will, that it will take not a

> symptomatic response with a couple of herbs or formulas, but a deep

> analysis of all factors contributing to the epidemic, and the symptom

> patterns that ensue. We will need to use everything we've got, all

> our tools, both physical and intellectual to effectively deal with

> such an epidemic. Are we really up to the task as a profession?

>

>

> On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:31 AM, wrote:

>

>> > Star anise and xiao hui xiang are not the same herb. Star anise is

>> > a dried fruit of a tree, and is used as a cooking spice, not as

>> > medicine to my knowledge. Xiao hui xiang, also called fennel or

>> > anise, is a seed from an herbaceous plant in the celery and carrot

>> > family.

>> >

>> > , L.Ac

>> > Acupuncture and Chinese Herbal Medicine

>> > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1

>> > Cottonwood, AZ 86326

>> > (928) 274-1373

>> >

>> > Al Stone <al wrote:

>> > Jin yin hua and lian qiao were just mentioned here:

>> > http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?

>> > article_id=ebb72447f318db9ca8840fc605814f24

>> >

>> > Star anise and fennel seed oil are described here:

>> > http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?

>> > article_id=f8e7a8f2ef3af0397c6e1e4363f9ea89

>> >

>> > I haven't found in " Star Anise " in herb books, but fennel fruit is

>> > Xiao Hui

>> > Xiang. Not sure if the " seed " is a misprint or correct.

>> >

>> > -al.

>> >

>> > On 11/21/05, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

>>> >>

>>> >> I am getting more inquiries about herbal strategies. Besides

>>> >> Kimchee and

>>> >> Star anise, does anyone have access to information on herbs?

>>> >>

>>> >> --

>>> >> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

>>> >> President China Herb Company

>>> >> Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program

>>> >> Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts

>>> >> office: 215- 438-2977

>>> >> fax: 215-849-3338

>>> >> Www.chinaherbco.com <http://Www.chinaherbco.com>

>>> >> Www.carafrank.com <http://Www.carafrank.com>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

[Guest guest]

If a virus is constantly mutating, making it difficult to treat by

conventional means, how would you expect so-called 'anti-viral' herbs

to work? Because of their non-specificity? As I mentioned in my

last post, there are characteristics of epidemics that do repeat

among large populations, but even here, the diseases go through

different stages and one has to target the prescription to the

stage. One cannot just throw anti-viral herbs against an epidemic

without deep thought and diagnostic acumen.

 

 

On Nov 22, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Matthew Sieradski wrote:

 

> In response to a previous comment regarding herbal treatment,

> certainly we have to treat the patient's presentation, but if it is

> an epidemic disease we must keep in mind the pattern of disease

> progression seen in other patients, and, as Jake Fratkin points out

> in his article, it may also be effective to include a large amount

> of anti-viral herbs.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Maybe the question shouldn't be will/is a pandemic going to manifest,

but rather can it... If it can, do we know how we are going to

respond, both as individuals and as a profession?

 

It is really good to see us starting to ask the question about

infrastructure within the profession.

 

There is an exciting initiative under way that has the power to unite

our profession and allow a thorough exploration with the purpose of

eventual institution building to deal with a pandemic, should it

happen in our time... This initiative is still in its infancy, but

will soon concretize. I don't mean this to be a teaser, but an FYI.

More to follow soon.

 

--Razia

[Guest guest]

I have a friend, a priest in an animist African religion that does

chicken sacrifices who came down with an intense flu, with rapid

increases in body temperature to 106 for five days, requiring

hospitalization. This followed a sacrifice of a NYC live chicken from

food market sources that " appeared to be sweating in an air conditioned

room. " The chicken was not consumed but there was blood anointment. My

friend has very strong wei qi and is very careful with his (vegetarian)

diet, or might not have survived. He attempted to control the fever

with cold baths, but it climbed too dramatically. I wasn't there to

take his pulses or observe symptoms, but I am thinking that epidemic

heat formulas might be warranted.

 

Star anise btw may contain the shikimic acid that is in Tamiflu, but it

is in such low concentration that the quantity required would make a

person ill. Star anise teas have been associated with seizures and

other illnesses in 40 people according to US government reports.

However given that Tamiflu appears not to be very effective against

avian flu according to recent reports, we are better off looking to

traditional and SARS formulas based on symptoms.

 

--

Karen Vaughan, Lic. Ac

Creation's Garden Acupuncture and Herbs

253 Garfield Place

Brooklyn, NY 11215

 

(718) 622-6755

 

Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit

http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy

See my Creation's Garden website at: http://ksvaughan2.byregion.net/

And my website at Avon Walk for Breast Cancer 2005

[Guest guest]

The star anise that caused these health problems is a Japanese species,

mistakenly used instead of the Chinese star anise. None of these symptoms have

been reported with the Chinese species.

 

 

Star anise teas have been associated with seizures and

other illnesses in 40 people according to US government reports.

--

Karen Vaughan, Lic. Ac

Creation's Garden Acupuncture and Herbs

253 Garfield Place

Brooklyn, NY 11215

 

(718) 622-6755

 

Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit

http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy

See my Creation's Garden website at: http://ksvaughan2.byregion.net/

And my website at Avon Walk for Breast Cancer 2005

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Am I the only one that's getting just a tad nervous about the impending

bird flu? There are times I just put it out of my mind, thinking " whatever

will happen, will happen " ....and then I hear 2 or 3 broadcasts about it,

and I'm fully of anxiety!!!

 

What herbal tinctures and/or remedies should we be prepared with or have on

hand? Any ideas?

 

I've got oregano essential oil, lots of tinctures both antiviral and

antibacterial, hydrogen peroxide, colloidal silver, and grapefruit seed

extract. That being said, it's still hard to know exactly what to take as

I don't exactly want to bombard my body with a little of everything!!!

 

Jeanne

[Guest guest]

I've been hearing allot about Oscillococcinum for the flu....I got some at our local health food store and then noticed it at Walmart lately. I haven't had the flu or even a cold in years, but wanted to have something on hand just in case. So I can't tell you if it works...but possibly someone else has experience with it. Val

[Guest guest]

The broadcasts about it----that's the main problem. I don't think that what's going on here is much more than media hype, encouraged by interested third parties. There is no evidence that it can be transmitted to humans, other than by ingesting raw bodily fluids of infected birds; nor is there any evidence that it will mutilate and cause the apocalyptic scenarios that the quack-doctors hired to pose as medical experts on the news channels say. Still, it has been found in Asia that the antioxidants of the Korean Kim Chee Sauce, when fed to poultry has largely removed the symptoms.BJ <pinemeadows wrote: Am I the only one that's getting just a tad nervous about the impending bird flu? There are times I just put it out of my mind, thinking "whatever will happen, will

happen"....and then I hear 2 or 3 broadcasts about it, and I'm fully of anxiety!!!What herbal tinctures and/or remedies should we be prepared with or have on hand? Any ideas?I've got oregano essential oil, lots of tinctures both antiviral and antibacterial, hydrogen peroxide, colloidal silver, and grapefruit seed extract. That being said, it's still hard to know exactly what to take as I don't exactly want to bombard my body with a little of everything!!!Jeanne

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

Jeanne,

 

Do you work with a bunch of fowl? Do you have a great deal of fowl around your place?

 

I don't think it's as great a danger as the media hypes. It's good to be aware and be somewhat prepared, however I don't think you should be anxious about it..

 

A friend says definitively that the bird flu will be here this fall and she's getting rid of all but a few chickens. And I'm thinking, how do you know this? What makes her think it's coming to her house.

 

So now she's going to buy chicken from the store. I think that's a terrible idea. I think if you already have a small flock, it's better to know where your food is coming from than buy it from the store. Those birds have lived in the conditions where the bird flu expresses itself.

 

The fifteen or so people in China that contracted the bird flue, to my knowledge, worked with thousands of birds a day in those awful poultry markets.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

Debra

 

-

BJ

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:02 PM

Herbal Remedies - Avian flu

Am I the only one that's getting just a tad nervous about the impending bird flu? There are times I just put it out of my mind, thinking "whatever will happen, will happen"....and then I hear 2 or 3 broadcasts about it, and I'm fully of anxiety!!!What herbal tinctures and/or remedies should we be prepared with or have on hand? Any ideas?I've got oregano essential oil, lots of tinctures both antiviral and antibacterial, hydrogen peroxide, colloidal silver, and grapefruit seed extract. That being said, it's still hard to know exactly what to take as I don't exactly want to bombard my body with a little of everything!!!Jeanne

[Guest guest]

i have used this. it does work! the trick tho is to use it at the very 1st sign that you are sick. will take care of ot straight away!!!! i always have a supply in my home.angelaValinda Marston <valkonig wrote: I've been hearing allot about Oscillococcinum for the flu....I got some at our local health food store and then noticed it at Walmart lately. I haven't had the flu or even a cold in years, but wanted to have something on hand just in case. So I can't tell you if it works...but possibly someone else has experience with it. Val