Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Actually I have found that high-dose synthetic vitamins do not work as well as whole vitamin complexes as provided in whole food nutritional supplements and whole foods themselves. For example, vitamin C withouth bioflavonoids is very ineffective compared to C with bioflavonoids. The same is true of the others. , " Clare MAIL " <theclaremcharris wrote: > > Vitamins: It's Dose that Does ItPassing this along in its entirity for your information > It has a relaionship to all our sufferings, be they FMS/ME/Statin related etc............. > I absolutely LOVE the BOTTOM LINE. > Clare in Tassie > > > -- ------ > This article is copyright 2008 International Schizophrenia Foundation http://www.orthomed.org/isf/isf.html and may not be reprinted or otherwise used without ISF's written permission. If you are interested in using or reprinting this article, please contact ISF at centre or write to International Schizophrenia Foundation, 16 Florence Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M2N 1E9. Fax (416) 733- 2352. > -- ------ > > > > Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, February 2, 2009 > > > Vitamins: It's Dose that Does It > > (OMNS, February 2, 2009) There is a spin to most media reporting on vitamin research. The recent anti-vitamin media blitz, led by the Associated Press and USA Today, provides yet another demonstration. (Vitamins C and E don't prevent heart disease. The Associated Press, Nov. 9, 2008. Also: USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-11-09-supplements- study_N.htm ) With a paternalistic pat on the head, the media once again seeks to send you off to play with the reassurance that, well, vitamin therapy HAS been tested, and it just does not work. > > Nonsense. Thousands upon thousands of nutritional research studies provide evidence that vitamins do help prevent and treat serious diseases, including cancer and heart disease, when the nutrients are supplied in sufficiently high doses. High doses are required. Low doses fail. Says cardiologist Thomas Levy, M.D.: " The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are dose, dose, and dose. If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects. " > > Effective doses are high doses, often hundreds of times more than the US Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) or Daily Reference Intake (DRI). Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D., comments: " Drs. Wilfrid Shute and Evan Shute recommended doses from 400 IU to 8,000 IU of vitamin E daily. The usual dose range was 800 to 1600 IU but they report that they had given 8,000 IU without seeing any toxicity. " The Shutes successfully treated over 35,000 patients with vitamin E. > > All the recent, much touted JAMA study does is confirm what we already know: low doses do not work. The doses given were 400 IU of vitamin E every OTHER day and 500 milligrams of vitamin C/day. Try that same study with 2,000 to 4,000 IU of vitamin E every other day (1,000 to 2,000 IU/day) and 15,000-30,000 mg/day of vitamin C and the difference would be unmistakable. We know this because investigators using vitamins E and C in high doses have consistently reported success. > > Low doses do not get clinical results. Any physician, nurse, or parent knows that a dose of antibiotics that is one tenth, or one- hundredth, of the known effective dose will not work. Indeed, it is a cornerstone of medical science that dose affects outcome. This premise is accepted with pharmaceutical drug therapy, but not with vitamin therapy. Most of the best-publicized vitamin E and C research has used inadequate, low doses, and this JAMA study falls right into line. > > High doses of vitamins are deliberately not used. Writes Robert F. Cathcart III, M.D.: " I have been consulted by many researchers who proposed bold studies of the effects of massive doses of ascorbate (vitamin C). Every time the university center, the ethics committee, or the pharmacy committee deny permission for the use of massive doses of ascorbate and render the study almost useless. Seasoned researchers depending upon government grants do not even try to study adequate doses. " > > The most frequently proffered reason is the allegation that " high doses of vitamins are not safe. " That is a myth. 25 years of national poison control statistics show that there is not even one death per year from vitamins. Check the research literature and see for yourself exactly who is being harmed by vitamins. Aside from the pharmaceutical industry, virtually nobody. Half of Americans take vitamin supplements every day. So where are the bodies? > > Decades of physicians' reports and controlled research studies support the use of large doses of vitamins. Yet to hear the media (and JAMA) tell it, vitamins are a Granny's folk remedy: a buggy- and barrel-stave technology that just doesn't make it. > > In the broadcast and print media, vitamin therapy is marginalized at best and derided at worst. Is this merely laughable, or is there method to it? One may start by asking, who does this serve? Could it possibly be the media's huge advertising-cash providers, the pharmaceutical industry? Pharmaceutical advertising money buys authors, ad space, influence, and complicity. Unfortunately, this is as true in the newspapers as it is in the medical journals. > > Let the news media begin by disclosing exactly where their advertising revenue comes from. It may explain where the spin on their articles comes from, too. > > Nutritional Medicine is Orthomolecular Medicine > > Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org > > The peer-reviewed Orthomolecular Medicine News Service is a non-profit and non-commercial informational resource. > > Editorial Review Board: > > Carolyn Dean, M.D., N.D. > Damien Downing, M.D. > Harold D. Foster, Ph.D. > Steve Hickey, Ph.D. > Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. > James A. Jackson, PhD > Bo H. Jonsson, MD, Ph.D > Thomas Levy, M.D., J.D. > Erik Paterson, M.D. > Gert E. Shuitemaker, Ph.D. > > Andrew W. Saul, Ph.D., Editor and contact person. Email: omns > > To Subscribe at no charge: http://www.orthomolecular.org/.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I did a search for niacin on the doctoryourself website... wowow... very very interesting reading. Every single hit contains great information. http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8 & oe=UTF-8 & q=niacin & btnG=Google+Search & domains=www.doctoryourself.com & sitesearch=www.doctoryourself.com or http://tinyurl.com/bxzs9a It contains a lot of information and about the work of Dr.Abram Hoffer. Hanneke At 09:40 PM 13/02/2009, you wrote: I looked at this site, it states to run the cursor over the niacin and read. Hmmmm there is no niacin there that i was able to find. I did read nutrition and found it interesting. Edith ============================================== , " Clare MAIL " <theclaremcharris wrote: > > I appreciate the fact that many folks have had an opinion on the original article posted > however some seemed to have missed the very bottom line (or there abouts) where it states > > Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional > therapy to fight illness. For more information: > http://www.orthomolecular.org > --- «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤» § - PULSE ON 21st CENTURY ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE! § Subscribe send email to: - «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤» GREAT VACATION RENTAL ON THE LAKE: www.vacationhomerentals.com/39833 DISCLOSURE: Any information here in is for educational purpose only; it may be news related, purely speculation or SOMEONE’S OPINION. Always consult with a qualified Medical Doctor before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses. SUBMISSION POLICY & CONDITION OF MEMBERSHIP: By becoming a member of this group you AGREE to hold this group its members, list owners, moderators & affiliates harmless of any liability for any direct, consequential, incidental, damage incurred. If you post a piece to the list. We reserve the right to attach your name and email address to the piece, as well as to keep them on record. You should NOT post copyrighted material unless proper attributions to the source of the material. Submissions are gladly accepted. Please feel free to post material that you think are worthy. YOU AGREE; to accept responsibility and liability for your own actions and to contact a licensed Medical Doctor before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE; you must : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Gene, having learned about Niacin what I have, I have to say that you might want to learn about Dr.Hoffer's work and have not read any of the written material provided on that website. It is NOT a drug and is not used as a drug, it is used in vitamin therapy. Hanneke At 07:58 AM 14/02/2009, you wrote: Sometimes you have to watch when you use fractionalized nutrition-i.e.-Niacin, because it can work on the body like a drug. That's why people get the " niacin flush. " This is not necessarily a good thing for the body in my opinion. Gene avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090212-0, 12/02/2009Tested on: 13/02/2009 8:15:05 AMavast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 The primary antioxidant cascade includes vitamin C , bioflavonoids, vitamin E and lipoic acid. The more of these you take together the better the result--- On Wed, 2/11/09, kotheimerdc <kotheimerdc wrote: kotheimerdc <kotheimerdc Re: Vitamins: It's Dose that Does It Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 10:50 PM Actually I have found that high-dose synthetic vitamins do not work as well as whole vitamin complexes as provided in whole food nutritional supplements and whole foods themselves. For example, vitamin C withouth bioflavonoids is very ineffective compared to C with bioflavonoids.. The same is true of the others., "Clare MAIL" <theclaremcharris@ ...> wrote:>> Vitamins: It's Dose that Does ItPassing this along in its entirity for your information> It has a relaionship to all our sufferings, be they FMS/ME/Statin related etc......... ....> I absolutely LOVE the BOTTOM LINE.> Clare in Tassie> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------> This article is copyright 2008 International Schizophrenia Foundation http://www.orthomed .org/isf/ isf.html and may not be reprinted or otherwise used without ISF's written permission. If you are interested in using or reprinting this article, please contact ISF at centre or write to International Schizophrenia Foundation, 16 Florence Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M2N 1E9. Fax (416) 733-2352. > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------> > > > Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, February 2, 2009 > > > Vitamins: It's Dose that Does It> > (OMNS, February 2, 2009) There is a spin to most media reporting on vitamin research. The recent anti-vitamin media blitz, led by the Associated Press and USA Today, provides yet another demonstration. (Vitamins C and E don't prevent heart disease. The Associated Press, Nov. 9, 2008. Also: USA Today http://www.usatoday .com/news/ health/2008- 11-09-supplement s-study_N.htm ) With a paternalistic pat on the head, the media once again seeks to send you off to play with the reassurance that, well, vitamin therapy HAS been tested, and it just does not work. > > Nonsense. Thousands upon thousands of nutritional research studies provide evidence that vitamins do help prevent and treat serious diseases, including cancer and heart disease, when the nutrients are supplied in sufficiently high doses. High doses are required. Low doses fail. Says cardiologist Thomas Levy, M.D.: "The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are dose, dose, and dose. If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects." > > Effective doses are high doses, often hundreds of times more than the US Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) or Daily Reference Intake (DRI). Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D., comments: "Drs. Wilfrid Shute and Evan Shute recommended doses from 400 IU to 8,000 IU of vitamin E daily. The usual dose range was 800 to 1600 IU but they report that they had given 8,000 IU without seeing any toxicity." The Shutes successfully treated over 35,000 patients with vitamin E. > > All the recent, much touted JAMA study does is confirm what we already know: low doses do not work. The doses given were 400 IU of vitamin E every OTHER day and 500 milligrams of vitamin C/day. Try that same study with 2,000 to 4,000 IU of vitamin E every other day (1,000 to 2,000 IU/day) and 15,000-30,000 mg/day of vitamin C and the difference would be unmistakable. We know this because investigators using vitamins E and C in high doses have consistently reported success. > > Low doses do not get clinical results. Any physician, nurse, or parent knows that a dose of antibiotics that is one tenth, or one-hundredth, of the known effective dose will not work. Indeed, it is a cornerstone of medical science that dose affects outcome. This premise is accepted with pharmaceutical drug therapy, but not with vitamin therapy. Most of the best-publicized vitamin E and C research has used inadequate, low doses, and this JAMA study falls right into line. > > High doses of vitamins are deliberately not used. Writes Robert F. Cathcart III, M.D.: "I have been consulted by many researchers who proposed bold studies of the effects of massive doses of ascorbate (vitamin C). Every time the university center, the ethics committee, or the pharmacy committee deny permission for the use of massive doses of ascorbate and render the study almost useless. Seasoned researchers depending upon government grants do not even try to study adequate doses." > > The most frequently proffered reason is the allegation that "high doses of vitamins are not safe." That is a myth. 25 years of national poison control statistics show that there is not even one death per year from vitamins. Check the research literature and see for yourself exactly who is being harmed by vitamins. Aside from the pharmaceutical industry, virtually nobody. Half of Americans take vitamin supplements every day. So where are the bodies? > > Decades of physicians' reports and controlled research studies support the use of large doses of vitamins. Yet to hear the media (and JAMA) tell it, vitamins are a Granny's folk remedy: a buggy- and barrel-stave technology that just doesn't make it. > > In the broadcast and print media, vitamin therapy is marginalized at best and derided at worst. Is this merely laughable, or is there method to it? One may start by asking, who does this serve? Could it possibly be the media's huge advertising- cash providers, the pharmaceutical industry? Pharmaceutical advertising money buys authors, ad space, influence, and complicity. Unfortunately, this is as true in the newspapers as it is in the medical journals. > > Let the news media begin by disclosing exactly where their advertising revenue comes from. It may explain where the spin on their articles comes from, too. > > Nutritional Medicine is Orthomolecular Medicine> > Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomol ecular.org > > The peer-reviewed Orthomolecular Medicine News Service is a non-profit and non-commercial informational resource. > > Editorial Review Board:> > Carolyn Dean, M.D., N.D. > Damien Downing, M.D. > Harold D. Foster, Ph.D. > Steve Hickey, Ph.D. > Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph..D. > James A. Jackson, PhD > Bo H. Jonsson, MD, Ph.D > Thomas Levy, M.D., J.D. > Erik Paterson, M.D. > Gert E. Shuitemaker, Ph.D. > > Andrew W. Saul, Ph.D., Editor and contact person. Email: omns > > To Subscribe at no charge: http://www.orthomol ecular.org/ . html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 In my personal and family experience, artificial vitamins do not work.It is real food that works, really fast and you can feel it.For example, if one is omega 3 deficient, a bottle full of omega 3 supplements is no match to eating fresh raw ocean tuna / salmon / blue marlin sashimi. Another example, no amount of zinc supplements in whatever form will match the effectiveness of fresh raw oysters.Another example, lecithin... raw fertilized egg yolks will move your liver and even flush your liver. Real raw food works. And works absolutely great. Sometimes I blog that... the food is magical.Best wishes to all,Edwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 There is only one problem with this: All seafood is contaminated with heavy metals and other contaminants. You cannot trust the food supply anymore, especially large ocean fish. Therefore, using supplements that have been tested for purity is preferable. Susan Siegel On Feb 12, 2009, at 9:36 PM, Eli Edwin Casimero wrote:In my personal and family experience, artificial vitamins do not work.It is real food that works, really fast and you can feel it.For example, if one is omega 3 deficient, a bottle full of omega 3 supplements is no match to eating fresh raw ocean tuna / salmon / blue marlin sashimi.Another example, no amount of zinc supplements in whatever form will match the effectiveness of fresh raw oysters.Another example, lecithin... raw fertilized egg yolks will move your liver and even flush your liver.Real raw food works. And works absolutely great. Sometimes I blog that... the food is magical.Best wishes to all,Edwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I agree, nutritional nourishment through our food is the best way to go. In fact, traditional diet along with traditional lifestyle with no processed western foods is IDEAL according to Dr. Weston Price. Unfortunately, most of us don't have access to fresh, untainted foods and in that case, those vitamin supplements are our lifesavers. At least they are for me. Josephine , Eli Edwin Casimero <eesc wrote: > > In my personal and family experience, artificial vitamins do not work. > > It is real food that works, really fast and you can feel it. > > For example, if one is omega 3 deficient, a bottle full of omega 3 > supplements is no match to eating fresh raw ocean tuna / salmon / blue > marlin sashimi. > > Another example, no amount of zinc supplements in whatever form will match > the effectiveness of fresh raw oysters. > > Another example, lecithin... raw fertilized egg yolks will move your liver > and even flush your liver. > > Real raw food works. And works absolutely great. Sometimes I blog that... > the food is magical. > > Best wishes to all, > Edwin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I appreciate the fact that many folks have had an opinion on the original article posted however some seemed to have missed the very bottom line (or there abouts) where it states Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I looked at this site, it states to run the cursor over the niacin and read. Hmmmm there is no niacin there that i was able to find. I did read nutrition and found it interesting. Edith ============================================== , " Clare MAIL " <theclaremcharris wrote: > > I appreciate the fact that many folks have had an opinion on the original article posted > however some seemed to have missed the very bottom line (or there abouts) where it states > > Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional > therapy to fight illness. For more information: > http://www.orthomolecular.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sometimes you have to watch when you use fractionalized nutrition-i.e.-Niacin, because it can work on the body like a drug. That's why people get the "niacin flush." This is not necessarily a good thing for the body in my opinion. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Orthomolecular Medicine News Service Vitamins: It's Dose that Does It (OMNS, February 2, 2009) There is a spin to most media reporting on vitamin research. The recent anti-vitamin media blitz, led by the Associated Press and USA Today, provides yet another demonstration. (Vitamins C and E don't prevent heart disease. The Associated Press, Nov. 9, 2008. Also: USA Today _http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-11-09-supplements-study_N.htm_ (http://www.orthomolecular.org/12all/lt/t_go.php?i=112 & e=MjY2MDA= & l=http://www.u\ satoday.com/news/health/2008-11-09-supplements-study_N.htm) ) With a paternalistic pat on the head, the media once again seeks to send you off to play with the reassurance that, well, vitamin therapy HAS been tested, and it just does not work. Nonsense. Thousands upon thousands of nutritional research studies provide evidence that vitamins do help prevent and treat serious diseases, including cancer and heart disease, when the nutrients are supplied in sufficiently high doses. High doses are required. Low doses fail. Says cardiologist Thomas Levy, M.D.: " The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are dose, dose, and dose. If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects. " Effective doses are high doses, often hundreds of times more than the US Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) or Daily Reference Intake (DRI). Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D., comments: " Drs. Wilfrid Shute and Evan Shute recommended doses from 400 IU to 8,000 IU of vitamin E daily. The usual dose range was 800 to 1600 IU but they report that they had given 8,000 IU without seeing any toxicity. " The Shutes successfully treated over 35,000 patients with vitamin E. All the recent, much touted JAMA study does is confirm what we already know: low doses do not work. The doses given were 400 IU of vitamin E every OTHER day and 500 milligrams of vitamin C/day. Try that same study with 2,000 to 4,000 IU of vitamin E every other day (1,000 to 2,000 IU/day) and 15,000-30,000 mg/day of vitamin C and the difference would be unmistakable. We know this because investigators using vitamins E and C in high doses have consistently reported success. Low doses do not get clinical results. Any physician, nurse, or parent knows that a dose of antibiotics that is one tenth, or one-hundredth, of the known effective dose will not work. Indeed, it is a cornerstone of medical science that dose affects outcome. This premise is accepted with pharmaceutical drug therapy, but not with vitamin therapy. Most of the best-publicized vitamin E and C research has used inadequate, low doses, and this JAMA study falls right into line. High doses of vitamins are deliberately not used. Writes Robert F. Cathcart III, M.D.: " I have been consulted by many researchers who proposed bold studies of the effects of massive doses of ascorbate (vitamin C). Every time the university center, the ethics committee, or the pharmacy committee deny permission for the use of massive doses of ascorbate and render the study almost useless. Seasoned researchers depending upon government grants do not even try to study adequate doses. " The most frequently proffered reason is the allegation that " high doses of vitamins are not safe. " That is a myth. 25 years of national poison control statistics show that there is not even one death per year from vitamins. Check the research literature and see for yourself exactly who is being harmed by vitamins. Aside from the pharmaceutical industry, virtually nobody. Half of Americans take vitamin supplements every day. So where are the bodies? Decades of physicians' reports and controlled research studies support the use of large doses of vitamins. Yet to hear the media (and JAMA) tell it, vitamins are a Granny's folk remedy: a buggy- and barrel-stave technology that just doesn't make it. In the broadcast and print media, vitamin therapy is marginalized at best and derided at worst. Is this merely laughable, or is there method to it? One may start by asking, who does this serve? Could it possibly be the media's huge advertising-cash providers, the pharmaceutical industry? Pharmaceutical advertising money buys authors, ad space, influence, and complicity. Unfortunately, this is as true in the newspapers as it is in the medical journals. Let the news media begin by disclosing exactly where their advertising revenue comes from. It may explain where the spin on their articles comes from, too. () Nutritional Medicine is Orthomolecular Medicine Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: _http://www.orthomolecular.org_ (http://www.orthomolecular.org) The peer-reviewed Orthomolecular Medicine News Service is a non-profit and non-commercial informational resource. Editorial Review Board: Carolyn Dean, M.D., N.D. Damien Downing, M.D. Harold D. Foster, Ph.D. Steve Hickey, Ph.D. Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. James A. Jackson, PhD Bo H. Jonsson, MD, Ph.D Thomas Levy, M.D., J.D. Erik Paterson, M.D. Gert E. Shuitemaker, Ph.D. Andrew W. Saul, Ph.D., Editor and contact person. Email: _omns_ (omns) To Subscribe at no charge: _http://www.orthomolecular.org/.html_ (http://www.orthomolecular.org/.html) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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