Panic Attacks*Butch*really long

[Guest guest]

, Butch Owen <butchbsi@s...> wrote:

> Hi y'all,

>The medical term .. Panic Disorder .. according to my handy-dandy

>mini manual .. is:

 

 

snip

 

> In combat, its not unusual for rookies to panic .. they see the

>reality of death around them and its not a normal thing. But its

>rare that the soldier does not overcome this. Peer pressure is the

>best medicine in such cases. Remember .. these kids who walked

>through the jungles of Vietnam and who are walking the streets of

>Baghdad now are the young folks who graduated from high school a year

>ago. Violent death and such are new to these young folks .. but you

>can bet your bippy that 99.9% of them will learn to handle it inside

>a week or less. Panic bouts such as those described above are often

>brought on by lack of confidence and lack of experience and they can

>be easily overcome .. permanently .. when confidence is gained.

 

 

I think this is true in terms of panic as a result of external

stimulation (people wanting to kill you.) I would argue that it's a

little different from " panic disorder " where your brain chemicals tell

your body to REACT like someone is trying to kill you, when you are

sitting at home in your living room reading a book, or grocery

shopping etc.

 

> Its my opinion that modern medical science has orgasms when they can

> find a new disorder and put a handle on it .. and find a treatment >

> for it.

 

*snort* LOL!

 

>Normally, antidepressants are the preferred choice for anything the

> medicos can call a behavior disorder. Humans have an innate desire

>to survive .. and many of the disorders are really extremes of this

>built-in self-preservation mechanism. Ask any cardiologist about who

>is most likely to suffer from a vasovagel attack and they'll tell you

>its folks who have walked the fine line of death a few times ..

>soldiers with combat experience and cops.

 

Or people who swallow a corn chip the wrong way and it pushes on the

vagus from the esophagus.... (for those who don't remember, this is

why President Bush passed out a few years ago.)

 

The vagus can be stimulated manually by GENTLY pressing on the

eyeballs during an attack, it helps slow the heart rate and breathing

etc. When we had to work with a LARGE iguana, or snake, or somesuch

primative creture that was very fractious, we would actually tape

cotton balls over their eyes, and they would calm down REAL fast.

Works a bit on dogs. I'll give $100 dollars to the person who can

press on an angry cat's eyeball. ;-)

 

 

>Everybody has the capability of having such an attack but the mind of

>those mentioned above tells the body to slow down and survive when

>its stricken with a loss of limb or such .. basically, its excess

>activation of the vagus nerve .. which causes a slowing of the heart

>and a lowering of the blood pressure .. and then fainting. This is

>simply self-preservation and it can't be controlled .. but its NOT a

>disorder that requires treatment.

 

 

I think if someone gets a limb cut off, the system goes into effect in

the RIGHT way. Panic disorder is a disconnect between the system

working the right way (in response to the tyrannosarus who just ate

your arm) vs. missfiring at random. I was in two car accidents in

2002, during neither did I panic - was actually stone cold calm. I

just panic at random times.

 

 

> Many fears are real .. fear of dawgs after being attacked, for

>example. Others are unreal .. phobias .. and its my opinion that

>individual or group behavior modification sessions are far more

>useful than cramming friggin pills down someone's gullet. We can

>teach ourselves to overcome phobias in many cases .. controlled

>breathing is a great way to do it.

 

It's my understanding that the phobias and avoidance behaviors come

after the panic or anxiety disorder sets in. Example - you are in a

public place, you have a PA, then you start to avoid public places.

But I'm no shrink, and fortunately have no phobias - other than

flying. It's probably arguable as a chicken-or-egg situation.

 

 

Agree with the behavior stuff - with the exception of saying that

medical treatment in THE RIGHT HANDS - a skilled psychiatrist, vs, a

GP who wants to throw any old anti-depressant at you makes a HUGE

difference. These drugs can help regulate and augment brain chemical

unbalances that cause the chemical misfiring in the first place. And

getting the RIGHT drug is inportant. Sometimes takes trial and error.

I'm not for taking drugs for no reason, but I certain feel that

people need to know it's an option, and an option that can _really_ help.

 

I want to extrapolate an example from the animal world to help make

this more clear. I have a cat (neutered male) that sprays urine (ugh)

around the house when he is feeling nervous or threatend. These

circumstances include outdoor cats walking up on to the porch and

leaving their scent there. Since I cannot control the movement of

outdoor cats, or always remove any stimulus that upsets him, I can't

control his spraying. I cannot communicate with him in any way to

aleviate his anxiety. His brain chemicals are out of whack, and while

we can alter them somewhat in humans with cognative therapy, you can't

really do that with cats. You can try to condition them, pavlovian

style, to not spray, but behavior modification in cats is still an

iffy propostion. He has been put on a drug called Clomipramine (I

believe it's an SSRI, not a tri-cyclic, but I could be wrong) at a low

dose, and his spraying has STOPPED. He also appears to be a more

well-adjusted young boy now. Still has plenty of personality, just is

less anxious now. This drug is not without side effects, but each

individual has to weigh the issue of symptom relief vs. possible

side-effects themselves.

 

So for me, that proves that there are psychological issues we CAN deal

with in humans through couseling etc. yet there are also behavioral

issues that CAN be modified through the use of medication. I think

the individual need to pick his or her battle. At any rate,

counseling should go along with meds.

 

I think it's great to try and cope and deal with PD as naturally as

possible, but I NEVER want to make anyone who made the choice to take

meds feel like they have harmed themselves, or made the wrong choice.

 

 

> As for essential oils for Panic Attacks .. any of those that relax

>us will work .. if we like them. Lavandula angustifolia or Rosa

>damascena or Rosmarinus officinalis .. and so and so .. as we have

>seen in the past few posts. Many folks are telling us what works for

>them .. and ifit works .. it works.

 

I think you hit on the most important part of using oils to treat PD -

you must like them.

 

 

> Telling people that their disorder is not abnormal because many

>people suffer from the same disorder and we have even named it ..

>also works. It works to reinforce the disorder and the one suffering

>begins to accept that its inevitable .. unless they pop some pills.

>But telling a young sergeant to imagine that all the folks in the

>class he is teaching are sitting there naked as Jay Birds works too.

>So drugs are not the only answer .. they're just the modern, quick

>and expensive answer.

 

Course it works - for performance anxiety. I just disagree that this

is the same thing as what Ylva, others and myself are describing.

Symptoms out of the blue vs. an actual, valid reason to be nervous or

panicked. I can lecture the public all day long and not bat an eye -

doesn't bother me one whit.

 

Interstingly enough, I've been thinking about the issue of soldiers

under fire lately. I think I told you that I'm reading Stephen E.

Ambrose's " Band of Brothers " ? The narrative describes very vividly

the fears and psychological response to fears of soldiers in combat.

The major motivator to get past the fear,(as described in the book) is

the soldiers feeling of not wanting to let down their friends and

comrades with whom they are fighting along side. Also, to not want to

disspoint their officers, or NCOs. It becomes apparent that

outstanding leadership helped to overcome most fears of they younger

enlisted men and recruits. The men who balked in battle were under

officers that froze and were indecisive. Interesting reading, and

really makes what you are saying much more clear to me.

 

It may be oversimplifying things, dunno. I really wish you'd read it

so we can have a book talk. :-P

 

 

>Can anyone imagine an American Indian years back suffering from Panic

>Attacks due to being in open spaces? ;-p

 

I know that there have been several cases where they look back in

history and say " x-n-such historical figure must have been suffering

from x-disease or mental condition. " I think I've even read something

about someone (Hitler, Henry VIII?) having syphilis - and that

becoming the excuse for their mad behavior. However, I wonder how

much of this really existed historically in the gene pool, or whether

or not it's related to the increasing amts of CRAP we are exposed to

- bad food, poor nutrition, chemicals, drugs, environmental pollution

etc.?

 

 

Just some thought. Sorry this was so long-winded.

 

JenB