Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 This is something that I do wonder about. Everything I read, and the plethora of pet treats out there, tell me it is ok for dogs to have garlic. Yet I also know that onions are extremely toxic to dogs. I don't know the details (Jen can fill in here hopefully!) but there is a chemical in the onions that build up in their bloodstream, and it is cumulative. Eventually, it prevents the oxygen from being carried by the blood and it can result in death. OK Jen, clean up that explanation, LOL, but it is something like that! So anyway, knowing that garlic is in the onion family, I have always wondered about its safety. Debbie deb Spiritual Journey Soap, for body, mind and spirit http://www.debrasrhapsody.com/rhapsody/soaps.php#dr-spiritual_journey_spa_soap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 > This is something that I do wonder about. Everything I read, and the plethora of pet treats out there, tell me it is ok for dogs to have garlic. Yet I also know that onions are extremely toxic to dogs. I don't know the details (Jen can fill in here hopefully!) but there is a chemical in the onions that build up in their bloodstream, and it is cumulative. Eventually, it prevents the oxygen from being carried by the blood and it can result in death. OK Jen, clean up that explanation, LOL, but it is something like that! So anyway, knowing that garlic is in the onion family, I have always wondered about its safety. > It has to do with Allicin - so onions, garlic and shallots etc. In a nutshell,the Allicin interefers with an enzyme, this in turn causes oxidation of hemoglobin, which in turn causes the formation of a Heinz-Body on a red blood cell. It can be seen on a blood film pretty easily - esp if you use NMB stain. It looks a bit like a nipple protruding off the side of the cell. I learned about this in hemotology class while in school. Never thought much more about it until a year later, I was working and feeding some poor sick kitties a particular brand of baby food (forget which,) and cat food with garlic powder sprinkled on top as an appetite stimulant. Later, we noticed the RBC morphology of these cats was all wacky. On a whim, we decided to stain a blood film with NMB (new methylene blue) and wham! There they were. After that, we changed brands of baby food to one without onion/garlic, and quit using garlic powder. It cleared up. Other than MY personal experience, it's widely documented in veterinary literature, and it is taught in vet school. You were concerned about dogs. Onions have higher concentrations of allicin than garlic does, so I would say no onions for dogs ever. Dogs seem to tolerate garlic much better than cats - partially due to their larger size, and larger dose required to take effect I would venture. However, I don't know how much of a dose of garlic (mg/kg) people are feeding, and what the threshold is. I just know that there IS a real potential for damage, so I stay away from it. http://tinyurl.com/g5dg This is from a japanese study. I have read other articles in various credible publications, and if you google the subject, tons of info will come up. This ain't happening in a vacuum, so I fail to see why it's still recommended. My guess is that it is information extrapolated from the human world and applied to pets. Tsk tsk!! That help? JenB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 I knew you would know! We always have stayed away from garlic for our dog, just in case b/c we had known about the onion thing -- boy, can you explain it better than me, LOL! Thanks! Debbie deb Spiritual Journey Soap, for body, mind and spirit http://www.debrasrhapsody.com/rhapsody/soaps.php#dr-spiritual_journey_spa_soap - " nsorcel " <nsorcl Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:39 PM Re: garlic and pets > > > This is something that I do wonder about. Everything I read, and > the plethora of pet treats out there, tell me it is ok for dogs to > have garlic. Yet I also know that onions are extremely toxic to dogs. > I don't know the details (Jen can fill in here hopefully!) but there > is a chemical in the onions that build up in their bloodstream, and it > is cumulative. Eventually, it prevents the oxygen from being carried > by the blood and it can result in death. OK Jen, clean up that > explanation, LOL, but it is something like that! So anyway, knowing > that garlic is in the onion family, I have always wondered about its > safety. > > > > It has to do with Allicin - so onions, garlic and shallots etc. > > In a nutshell,the Allicin interefers with an enzyme, this in turn > causes oxidation of hemoglobin, which in turn causes the formation of > a Heinz-Body on a red blood cell. It can be seen on a blood film > pretty easily - esp if you use NMB stain. It looks a bit like a > nipple protruding off the side of the cell. > > I learned about this in hemotology class while in school. Never > thought much more about it until a year later, I was working and > feeding some poor sick kitties a particular brand of baby food (forget > which,) and cat food with garlic powder sprinkled on top as an > appetite stimulant. Later, we noticed the RBC morphology of these > cats was all wacky. On a whim, we decided to stain a blood film with > NMB (new methylene blue) and wham! There they were. After that, we > changed brands of baby food to one without onion/garlic, and quit > using garlic powder. It cleared up. > > Other than MY personal experience, it's widely documented in > veterinary literature, and it is taught in vet school. > > You were concerned about dogs. Onions have higher concentrations of > allicin than garlic does, so I would say no onions for dogs ever. > Dogs seem to tolerate garlic much better than cats - partially due to > their larger size, and larger dose required to take effect I would > venture. However, I don't know how much of a dose of garlic (mg/kg) > people are feeding, and what the threshold is. I just know that there > IS a real potential for damage, so I stay away from it. > > http://tinyurl.com/g5dg > > This is from a japanese study. I have read other articles in various > credible publications, and if you google the subject, tons of info > will come up. This ain't happening in a vacuum, so I fail to see why > it's still recommended. My guess is that it is information > extrapolated from the human world and applied to pets. Tsk tsk!! > > That help? > > JenB > > > > > Step By Step Instructions On Making Rose Petal Preserves: http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html > > To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link: /join > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Hi Debbie and Jen I'll add my anecdotal experience here as well ... Its not so great with horses either ..... though people give it in large doses daily. I have had horses develop sensitivity to garlic when owners haven't been mindful enough to take their horses off garlic when given drugs, these horses often develop a skin problem. Had many skin issues traced back years when this has been the case, owners thought nothing of it and when this came out in the case taking, removing garlic saw improvements. Some people give garlic to horses for the sulphur content - to make them less tasty to bugs, however if they are on fresh grass this nullifies that affect and would be more effective sprayed on but phew not a pleasant odour riding on a hot day. some studies have shown it a contributing factor with vasculitis, one horse we couldn't work out why her legs would not respond to treatment, it did once the vet nurse found a study to support this and the owner admitted the horse was on garlic but didn't tell anyone because she thought was just part of her feed. Some horses have developed anaemia on fresh garlic, though not 100% attributed to this, but taking them off the garlic helped with recovery. These interesting were TB's and suspected stomach ulcer involvement as well.. Also wary of using it with racehorses, as it thins the blood and if they are prone to bleeding you could be making them vulnerable to this and then they may be banned from racing. most horse owners who supplement garlic, give way too much, and IMHO exceed any sensible fools measure. Catherine Author ~ A Healthy Horse the Natural Way http://www.catherinebird.com.au Keep up to date with natural therapies for horses with our monthly online newsletter at catherinebird/ Message: 7 Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:19:29 -0500 " Debra McDuffee " <deb garlic and pets This is something that I do wonder about. Everything I read, and the plethora of pet treats out there, tell me it is ok for dogs to have garlic. Yet I also know that onions are extremely toxic to dogs. I don't know the details (Jen can fill in here hopefully!) but there is a chemical in the onions that build up in their bloodstream, and it is cumulative. Eventually, it prevents the oxygen from being carried by the blood and it can result in death. OK Jen, clean up that explanation, LOL, but it is something like that! So anyway, knowing that garlic is in the onion family, I have always wondered about its safety. Debbie deb Spiritual Journey Soap, for body, mind and spirit http://www.debrasrhapsody.com/rhapsody/soaps.php#dr-spiritual_journey_spa_so ap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 > Hi Debbie and Jen > I'll add my anecdotal experience here as well ... > Its not so great with horses either ..... though people give it in large > doses daily. > I have had horses develop sensitivity to garlic when owners haven't been > mindful enough to take their horses off garlic when given drugs, these > horses often develop a skin problem. Had many skin issues traced back years > when this has been the case, owners thought nothing of it and when this came > out in the case taking, removing garlic saw improvements. > Some people give garlic to horses for the sulphur content - to make them > less tasty to bugs, however if they are on fresh grass this nullifies that > affect and would be more effective sprayed on but phew not a pleasant odour > riding on a hot day. > some studies have shown it a contributing factor with vasculitis, one horse > we couldn't work out why her legs would not respond to treatment, it did > once the vet nurse found a study to support this and the owner admitted the > horse was on garlic but didn't tell anyone because she thought was just part > of her feed. > Some horses have developed anaemia on fresh garlic, though not 100% > attributed to this, but taking them off the garlic helped with recovery. > These interesting were TB's and suspected stomach ulcer involvement as > well.. > Also wary of using it with racehorses, as it thins the blood and if they are > prone to bleeding you could be making them vulnerable to this and then they > may be banned from racing. > most horse owners who supplement garlic, give way too much, and IMHO exceed > any sensible fools measure. > Catherine Hi Catherine, Yep, it can cause problems with horses too. I have read studies about horses grazing on pastures with a large proportion of onion grass showing signs of Heinz-body anemia. It's interesting that you bring in the ulcer issue. That's another aspect of the toxicity with cats and dogs - they can sometimes get mouth ulcers and oral sores . JenB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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