Vitex Essential Oil - Reply to Butch

[Guest guest]

At 03:21 PM 1/19/2004 -0000, aromamedical2003 wrote:

 

>>No one has got a clue on the safety of vitex essential oil.

>>>Too broad this .. get more specific

>I can't be more specific neither can you or anyone else because no

>one knows anything about the safe uses of this oil.

 

Butch wrote:

>>There are a few hundreds of people I know of who have used it

>>but to date I have heard of NOT ONE single case of harm

>The answer to that was covered on this group not long ago. You are

>putting up the same old agrument that does not hold water.

 

I wearily reply :

This is the same question I raised about Raindrop Therapy a few months ago,

both in groups and privately. I did a Medline and google search and found

not one case of injury being reported by RDT 'patients'. I pointedly asked

of those opposed to YL (which I am, on any and all fronts) to please put

forth evidence, and I would put it on the website. Not one case. Many

reasons were given -- redness/rash would be attributed to toxins coming

out, embarrassment, didn't figure it was life-threatening or reason enough

to go to a doctor or ER, etc., etc.

 

I believe that Luck's reports and subsequent disclaimer/warning do

attribute 'harm' to the vitex EO, and I'll post it once again, and then I

will sign off on this subject, since only one person on this group seems to

be in constant attack mode re: the subject, and the circular argument is

probably boring everyone at this point:

 

Original publication: Lucks, Barbara; Sorensen, J.; Veal, L.

 

Vitex agnus-castus Essential Oil and Menopausal Balance: A Self-Care

Survey, " Complementary Therapies in Nursing and Midwifery " . Volume 8,

Number 3, Pages 148-154. Elsvier Science, London. August, 2002

 

2003 Barbara Chopin Lucks

 

Possible side effects from use of Vitex agnus castus

 

a.. Headache

b.. Nausea

c.. Rash or sensation of ants crawling on skin

d.. Increased hot flashes or night sweats

e.. Nightmares

f.. Emotional crises, exacerbation of depression, suicidal ideation

g.. Unwanted or unexpected vaginal bleeding

h.. Reduction of the efficacy of birth control pills

 

Known & Possible Interactions relating to use of essential oil Vitex agnus

castus

 

NOTE: This list should not be assumed to be comprehensive or conclusive,

as information regarding response to the essential oil is relatively new

and derived in most cases from non-clinical data. The author has listed

herb/drug interactions that are noted in referenced texts, or that have

been suggested by information from the case studies. It should also be

noted that action of a whole herb and action of the essential oil do differ

from time to time.

 

a.. Any form of progesterone, either natural or synthesized, when used in

combination with e.o. vitex, may potentiate activity and lead to elevated

progesterone levels. Breakthrough bleeding was consistently noted when

these substances were used in combination.

b.. Oral contraceptives. Possibility that use of any form of the herb

can reduce efficacy.

c.. Hormone replacement therapy. See note above regarding progesterone.

Case studies indicate several instances of successful combination of

estrogen (either plant derived or animal derived) with e.o. vitex. Any

such use should be professionally managed.

d.. Neuroleptic medications (haloperidol, thioridazine) may weaken or

block effects of the herb or oil. Research strongly suggests that the oil

acts as a dopamine-receptor agonist. Additionally, a few reports both from

the case studies and more informal communication indicate a possible

positive effect on seizure-type disorders.

Practitioners should be aware of potential for the following:

 

· Ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome

 

· Exacerbation of depression (esp. if estrogen levels fall

dangerously).

--

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

[Guest guest]

Hey Martin,

 

> Replies mainly to Butch,

 

And a reply back .. mainly to you. ;-p

 

> I will just reply to your most important points as many things you

> raise have got nothing to do with the issue of Vitex oil use.

 

Why not address the other specific questions I asked? They must have

been important to me or I would not have asked them .. its presumptuous

for you to determine which of my questions are important.

 

> >No one has got a clue on the safety of vitex essential oil.

> >

> > >Too broad this .. get more specific

> >

> I can't be more specific neither can you or anyone else because no

> one knows anything about the safe uses of this oil.

 

Martin .. I can't be more specific .. thus I have NOT said it is SAFE ..

but you can say it is UNSAFE without being more specific? And saying

something is not safe is not even saying its unsafe in the second place.

I doubt if drinking and smoking are all that safe.

 

> >There are a few hundreds of people I know of who have used it

> >but to date I have heard of NOT ONE single case of harm

>

> The answer to that was covered on this group not long ago. You are

> putting up the same old agrument that does not hold water.

 

The answer has NEVER been covered on this group .. you have merely put

out your standard line of thought .. and that is NOT .. to me .. even

approaching proper coverage. And I disagree that my question is not

valid .. it does hold water .. and it remains unanswered.

 

> Re clinical trials:

> I do not dispute that many clinical trials have flaws in them. That

> will apply equally to conventional medicines as well as traditional.

 

Right .. so aside from the CYA aspects .. there's little to be gained.

 

> However, that has got nothing at all to do with the FACT that the

> potential uses of vitex essential oil were first proposed by Janina

> Srenson who was looking for an outlet for oils she produced as well

> as trying to develop the science behind its use. To date I am not

> satisfied that she has made an adequate case. Then the PIA quickly

> jumped on the bandwagon all based on the flimsiest of evidence. Then

> once Barbara Lucks posted her inadequate findings all the oil

> suppliers started to jump on the bandwagon. All this without a

> single piece of sound evidence on the efficacy or safety of the oil.

 

Which .. is no doubt a lot more evidence than we have on most other EO.

And the fact that many women can get immediate relief from the symptoms

that are bothering them is unto itself a reason to sniff the damn oil.

 

> >Half the oils used in Aromatherapy have not a single minute of study

> >conducted on them

>

> Your figures are wrong as pointed out in previous mails.

 

I have never seen a single post to dispute this.

 

> >Peppermint has not been studied.

>

> Only not for skin safety, at least that is an oil which has been used

> for hundreds of years in thousands of products and on which we have a

> clear idea on its safety and mountains on its efficacy.

 

If you kept to the context of my post .. and answered the questions in

the logical flow that they were presented .. you would see that I have

pointed this out before .. and it does NOT support your position .. it

weakens it.

 

> Vitex Agnus Castus oil has not been tested for anything apart from

> its chemical profile and has NEVER been used in traditional medicine.

 

This too disregards the total logical flow of my previous post .. and

falls back on a presumption that if used in traditional medicine its

A-OK. But then, most oils are not used in traditional medicine so it

appears that aromatherapy is a scam .. by your rules.

 

> It has only been used in a haphazard manner for the last 4 years or so/

 

How do you know that people use it in a haphazard manner .. mighty big

presumption that.

 

> All the potential uses are based on the fact that Janina Srensen

> *thought* she had isolated a single component in the oil that

> *might* be one of the herbs active ingredients. As pointed

> out on Sunday, that is classic chemical science and has nothing

> whatsoever to do with the traditional use of the herb. The herb

> contains hundreds of compounds with enormously complex synergistic

> activities most of which we do not understand, but we do know the

> effects of the whole herbal extract. We have no idea on the actions

> of vitex oil despite the many anecdotal reports. If someone wants to

> mount a trial fine, but it must be a hundred fold better than the

> lousy studies conducted to date. In my opinion, if this oil does have

> a use, it should be as a regular pharmaceutical product and be

> subject to the same kind of trials as any other drug.

 

Repeated information here .. and dependence on pharmaceutical trials.

 

> >But Vitex EO has been used for 20 or more years that I know of

> >my distiller here in Turkey had sold a lot of Vitex EO to Europe for

> >more than twenty years

>

> You sure you don't mean for the fragrance trade which is where most

> of these novel oils may have been used at one time or another? They

> use such oils diluted to parts per million, nothing remotely similar

> to the way aromatherapists use them. I have never seen a reference

> to the use of this oil in any traditional medicinal products and very

> much doubt it was ever used that way.

 

I can't say how it was used in Europe. Just that it was sold to them.

 

> >What point must one cross to say its safe?

>

> It can never be considered safe in my eyes without formal

> dermatological testing even when done on limited numbers of people.

 

But .. formal dermatological testing of Tea Tree and Lavender shows that

they are NOT sensitizers .. and we all know that they CAN BE. Formal

dermatological testing rarely follows up for years to determine if the

participant later developed sensitization .. they can't because the

participants fly away like a covey of quail.

 

AND .. I do not see where it is relative to determine dermal safety when

one is advised to SNIFF the friggin oil!!

 

> At least then we have some idea on its safety. In the case of vitex

> oil I am less concerned with its skin safety as what its affects may

> be on the female hormone system. We know the herb is highly active

> in that respect so we need to be ultra cautious with an essential oil

> as it may be a thousand times more concentrated than the herb. My

> personal concern is long term damage to the female reproductive

> system due to over stimulation of the pituitary and possibly the

> ovaries. Anything that abnormally stimulates such organs is full of

> dangers. There are numerous other methods which holistic

> practitioners can utilize to smooth out menopausal problems all of

> which have histories reaching back hundreds to thousands of years.

> Likewise to treat many other female problems - see my article on

> pennyroyal. So again I say why use something with an unknown track

> record?

 

I have given my opinion of this before .. no need to do it again.

 

> Re the placebo effect: A sugar pill can give a powerful response

> and in trials between 40-80% placebo effect is reported. Perhaps

> therefore according to Butch's logic you better start selling an

> essential oil made from sugar cane - " well it works " . Oh boy better

> shut my mouth or some oil supplier will do just that and claim it is

> good for everything from an ingrowing toenail to cancer.

> Martin

 

Thanks for the tip Martin .. I'll reference you as soon as my sugar EO

is ready for market.

 

I would recommend that you .. and anybody else who answers a post from

others .. do so between the lines .. that way we can make sure things

stay in context .. and no questions or comments are overlooked.

 

You damn any EO that is not " tested " because that is the position you

have chosen to fit your reputation .. that is the main reason Martin.

So therefore, you damn most EO. Butch